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shortspecialbus posted:
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Jan 1, 2022 19:31
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLpcEuR4YNU
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Jan 9, 2022 01:35
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My 5yo has started showing enthusiasm for drums - what is a good way to build skills and interest without buying a whole kit? I just want her to get a feel of what's involved and for me to get a feel whether she has the ability to concentrate yet to put in the practice or whether its the fleeting interest of a small child. We've been watching drummers on YouTube and discussing equipment and she spent the morning programming a blast beat into Hydrogen, so she's got the intellectual interest!
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Jan 20, 2022 02:03
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Elissimpark posted:My 5yo has started showing enthusiasm for drums - what is a good way to build skills and interest without buying a whole kit? I take it you're not a drummer - maybe you could buy an inexpensive used kit for both of you. drums are fun, learn to play together! also I hope you have some Senri Kawaguchi in that playlist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urpso-w87ts (by the way this is the ideal snare drum, you may not like it but this it what peak performance sounds like)
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Jan 20, 2022 06:16
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AndrewP posted:I take it you're not a drummer - maybe you could buy an inexpensive used kit for both of you. drums are fun, learn to play together! I'm in semi-rural Tasmania, so unfortunately there's not much in the way of second-hand gear, though I have been keeping my eyes out! Her school has kits so I might bug the music teacher to let her have a bash outside normal hours. Also, my own time is a bit limited at the moment, as much as I would want to learn drums. Man, that is some crazy, tight drumming - she wasn't in the playlist, but she is now.
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Jan 20, 2022 19:24
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For a barebones interest check you could get her a practice pad and start her on learning rudiments. That would be smaller, cheaper and quieter than a real kit and have the added benefit of starting her off building a solid foundation for common rhythms and techniques. If she stays on a pad at home and has access to real drums at school and she's still into it in 6 months or so then you can be more confident that she's in it to win it and look at getting a full kit for home.
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Jan 21, 2022 00:25
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Takes No Damage posted:For a barebones interest check you could get her a practice pad and start her on learning rudiments. That would be smaller, cheaper and quieter than a real kit and have the added benefit of starting her off building a solid foundation for common rhythms and techniques. If she stays on a pad at home and has access to real drums at school and she's still into it in 6 months or so then you can be more confident that she's in it to win it and look at getting a full kit for home. Ooh, that sounds like a good plan - are the recommendations in the OP for books still good? Any recommendations for Youtube?
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Jan 21, 2022 01:04
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So here's a question. Where do you all get drumless tracks to play along to (if you do that)? I find most all of the ones I use on YouTube and mostly they are just recorded from RockBand. But that only covers really popular songs. Is there anywhere else that's a good resource for drumless tracks of not so popular songs? I've tried using some apps like Moises to try and strip out the drums but it often doesn't work too well.
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Jan 29, 2022 19:35
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Jay_Zombie posted:So here's a question. Where do you all get drumless tracks to play along to (if you do that)? I find most all of the ones I use on YouTube and mostly they are just recorded from RockBand. But that only covers really popular songs. I use spotify. There's a bunch of artists that make decent ones, they're all called like Drumless Backing Tracks and the like.
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Jan 29, 2022 20:51
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Check out Andre Forbes at Free Drumless Tracks - he makes a TON of drumless tracks that I've jammed to for countless hours. https://www.youtube.com/c/FreeDrumlessTracks A lot of them have a pretty heavy percussion loop but you can just search the song title + "NPL" for a version without it. Another good one is Jam'in Backing Tracks. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5BLXPBE2RoY_qrd8TnQhVA They're not just drumless but you can look for the "drumless" playlist. They're really well-produced and fun to play.
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Jan 30, 2022 04:20
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Elissimpark posted:Ooh, that sounds like a good plan - are the recommendations in the OP for books still good? Any recommendations for Youtube? Very likely. Stick Control is still considered the Drum Bible by most people, and beginning technique hasn't changed that much over the last oh 100 years or so. In general Drumeo has a fairly solid backlog of 'learning x' and 'how do I improve y' videos, but one of the first things you're probably both going to learn is that, with a few exceptions, there isn't one Right way to do things. You'll probably end up having her try a few different ways and just focus in on whatever she's most comfortable with.
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Jan 30, 2022 07:28
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Takes No Damage posted:Very likely. Stick Control is still considered the Drum Bible by most people, and beginning technique hasn't changed that much over the last oh 100 years or so. Oh cool, we've been watching a few things on Drumeo and they seemed pretty solid. She loves suitcase drumkits. I'll scare up a copy of Stick Control and go from there. (I've got some sticks in the mail and we have plenty of buckets and giant tubs lying about, so we can get some rhythm practice going without having to spend too much!)
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Jan 30, 2022 08:09
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This guy looks exactly how you'd expect someone who owns an exact replica of Peart's kit to look.
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Jan 30, 2022 10:28
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shortspecialbus posted:I use spotify. There's a bunch of artists that make decent ones, they're all called like Drumless Backing Tracks and the like. AndrewP posted:Check out Andre Forbes at Free Drumless Tracks - he makes a TON of drumless tracks that I've jammed to for countless hours. Awesome! Thanks very much!
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Jan 31, 2022 21:30
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Mister Speaker posted:This guy looks exactly how you'd expect someone who owns an exact replica of Peart's kit to look. A sample size of one isn't very scientific, what about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIbk5O2bAlI ...no, checks out. I'm Rivendell at 1:53 
Takes No Damage fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Feb 1, 2022 |
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Feb 1, 2022 00:13
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Elissimpark posted:My 5yo has started showing enthusiasm for drums - what is a good way to build skills and interest without buying a whole kit? I am a percussion tutor in the US for youths. All my kids came to drumming the exact same way: the school band. There is a program for 5-9 y/o kids but I don't really start with them until they are 10 and join the 5th grade concert band. Marching starts at 8th grade. One reason I like this is teaching the concert roll before the open marching roll muscle memory burns a channel in their brain. Kids here get a learning kit which is a practice pad, a set of flat bells, and poor quality sticks and mallets I usually have them grow out of and replace asap. Here's an example from the AUS Amazon: https://www.amazon.com.au/Mr-Power-Glockenspiel-Practice-Mallets-Sticks/dp/B07V7T9T8J/ The price on this kit it absolutely horrific. It would be cheaper to buy it from the US or Japan and ship it. This kit is about $140 aus/$100 usd more than the US amazon. The drum kit selection there is bad too, yikes. That being said there has never been a higher quality and lower prices of entry level drum kits than right now. The used gear markets are tightening up here in the US too; there was a brief golden age of used gear from like 2012 to 2019. There are still deals to be had but flippers have gotten sharper than ever (I should know, I am one. Mostly Turkish Cymbals, I have a partner in Istanbul) and with everyone being homebound from covid, the used market cleared its low end real fast. High end used gear is still mostly delusional people and whale hunters and divorced from the utilitarian value of the instruments. If you are willing to buy new and ship to the (literal, lol) bottom of the world all the major makers have good student kits. Avoid the obvious toy sets by strange makers. Pearl, Ludwig, and Yamaha all make solid child sized kits. I recommend the Pearl Roadshows to parents of young kids and the Pearl Exports for 12+ kids. The exports are full size semi-pro drums that are used by many working drummers who don't want to risk their "nice" drums at a shady gig. Here's the roadshows on the US Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/Pearl-RS525SCC706-Roadshow-Charcoal-Metallic/dp/B00NJVS0K4/ - With these you get objects that actual come extremely close to being cymbals and can be practiced on. Roadshow JR are even smaller https://www.amazon.com/Roadshow-piece-Drum-Hardware-Cymbals/dp/B07FFKZXZ8/ and ideal for a 5 year old if you can find them. I've heard good reviews of the Ludwig pocket kits too: https://www.amazon.com/Ludwig-LC178X025-Questlove-Pocket-Sparkle/dp/B01F4SU520. The PDP company also makes some decent entry level gear. As far as books, I use Stick Control, which is a book of drills not music, and Alfred's Complete https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0739088939, which is integrated in the Smart Music software so the kids can hear the midi versions of the arrangements so they know if it sounds right, play long with recordings, record themselves etc. The tools now are so good, I came up in the 80s taught by people that came up in the 60s. Sheet music and analog metronomes. My first method book had a *record* with it. I was also raised on the traditional grip, which I have mixed feelings about passing on (unless they want to be a jazz drummer or go for DCI, they've signed up for it willingly then.) The software is kinda expensive (school dist. has a license, I couldnt otherwise.) But youtube is free and amazing. There has never been a better time to start drumming. Someone mentioned Moises earlier, which I love and use heavily. Its finnicky though, the source song quality has a huge effect on the final result. Its more than acceptable to practice and learn new songs with in my opinion. Don't try to remove the drums entirely, turn it down to maybe 33%. The problem with filtering out drums is they cover the entire dynamic range and the software also mutes other voices. On songs with a strong back beat the entire song gets quieter on 2 and 4 if you set the drums to 0. Not sure why I've not posted in this tread before. I've been playing for 35 years, first kit was a garbage CB700 made in the mid 80s. taters fucked around with this message at 07:51 on Feb 11, 2022 |
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Feb 11, 2022 07:43
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I want to quick revisit using SD3 for drum sounds with my TD-17 now that I've gotten my drums set up after a cross-country move. Specifically, I want to ask about the cymbals in general and more specifically the hi-hat - how do you get them to not sound like rear end? I can get the drums to sound pretty good, but the cymbals lose their ability to make different sounds depending on how you hit them, especially the hi-hat which loses any sort of believable pedal behavior. They'll also just clip the sounds off in a weird way a lot of times. Is there a guide that people have followed for this that they've had success with?
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Feb 11, 2022 14:26
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taters posted:I am a percussion tutor in the US for youths. All my kids came to drumming the exact same way: the school band. There is a program for 5-9 y/o kids but I don't really start with them until they are 10 and join the 5th grade concert band. Marching starts at 8th grade. One reason I like this is teaching the concert roll before the open marching roll muscle memory burns a channel in their brain. Kids here get a learning kit which is a practice pad, a set of flat bells, and poor quality sticks and mallets I usually have them grow out of and replace asap. Here's an example from the AUS Amazon: https://www.amazon.com.au/Mr-Power-Glockenspiel-Practice-Mallets-Sticks/dp/B07V7T9T8J/ The price on this kit it absolutely horrific. It would be cheaper to buy it from the US or Japan and ship it. This kit is about $140 aus/$100 usd more than the US amazon. The drum kit selection there is bad too, yikes. I'm currently waiting for a copy of Stick Control from a local online book store, but they're somewhat less efficient than Amazon. We're keeping our daughter back from school for a bit until she's fully vaccinated, so I'll have some time to get her started on just building her rhythm. Buying gear here really is a pain - things will generally cost more, and buying from overseas CAN be cheaper, but postage from the US is usually prohibitive. The UK and some parts of Europe can be okay (we bought our previous vacuum cleaner from Germen Ebay, I think) but still varies somewhat. Thanks for the indepth response!
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Feb 11, 2022 15:53
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taters posted:Words Great post all around, fully agree with all the stuff about getting kids started as percussionists. Welcome to the thread!
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Feb 11, 2022 18:16
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A book I picked up that's been fun to play but also kicking my rear end is Steve Gadd's book. Lots of interesting stick drills to work on and he made videos of all the exercises so I can compare to how bad I'm mangling it.
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Feb 12, 2022 16:55
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I put my noise rock album up on Bandcamp, its pulled from live drum improvisations. https://fleckcat.bandcamp.com/album/master-wav
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Mar 3, 2022 14:01
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This popped up on Youtube and I thought it might be good for some new folks. Also the K ride he uses as the control cymbal is bad rear end. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fsgi4hDs63s
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Mar 3, 2022 15:19
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When I was younger I used to think they were called 'batter heads' because the white coating was made out of some kind of batter, like pancakes.
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Mar 26, 2022 01:05
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Mister Speaker posted:When I was younger I used to think they were called 'batter heads' because the white coating was made out of some kind of batter, like pancakes. I mean.................. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHgXtf3VUTY&t=300s
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Mar 26, 2022 10:15
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Non-Newtonian Fluid Tension Experiment Also, RIP Taylor Hawkins.  Goddamn what lovely news.
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Mar 26, 2022 22:04
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Mister Speaker posted:Non-Newtonian Fluid Tension Experiment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Haaf2TKYUuc  Mister Speaker posted:Also, RIP Taylor Hawkins. Woah! That does indeed suck I wouldn't self-identify as a Foo fan, but I do like most of their singles and their output is solid if unremarkable, which is an achievement in itself over 10 LPs / ~25 years.
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Mar 27, 2022 01:20
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Hello drum thread. I would like to ask some advice from advanced cymbal heads. I have a pair of Paiste 14" 2002 Medium and a Paiste 18" Twenty Thin Crash. I used to use a Paiste 24" Giant Beat ride with this, but honestly this was probably just because when I started out with spending some cash for all those things, I just really liked John Bonham. I still like John Bonham, but it's probably time to try some other ride cymbals, and also my new bag only fits 20-22" cymbals. Long story short, a couple of days ago I had a chance to play on a Sabian SBR 20" ride and to my surprise that thing fit with the sound of the other cymbals (medium hats, twenty crash) like uhh that Tumblr where they post pictures of things fitting perfectly into things. Cool, I finally found my ride. However now I am checking the internet I see that SBr is Sabian's beginner series and it's a brass cymbal. My very first set was Sabian B8 and while I had some fun times with that, I now have come to recognize that sound as Absolute Dog poo poo Crap That Will Get Me Laughed Out Of The Studio Even Though I Pay Them To Help Me Record My Stuff. Maybe the SBr does not have this problem, but I think I ought to look around a little while to see what kind of rides might be in the same ballpark. So my question is: what other rides (preferably crash-ride combos) have a similar sound to Sabian SBr 20"? I am not looking to drop $thousands on some top level gear, but well who knows. I wish Sabian's website had some audition gallery like Paiste has. Thanks in advance for any ideas you might have.
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Apr 15, 2022 21:24
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I would honestly go to a local Guitar Center with a stick and bang on some cymbals to see what you like.
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Apr 19, 2022 01:37
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I think a Zildjian K ride is the most versatile. I had a 22" (these days 20" should be enough) and used that in everything from jazz trios to metal cover bands.
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Apr 28, 2022 22:54
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Hi y’all. I don’t hang in this thread much as I’m a really lovely drummer lol. But! Next year instead of a second intermediate group I will have a percussion class. (I teach middle school.) I am super loving excited and I am just wondering if there’s anything you ever wished you learned about drums/perc when you were 12 that you ended up having to learn on your own or later on in life. Sky’s the limit - sure I’ll teach em rudiments and so on but I also have 8 drum sets and want to give them a more well-rounded education than “perform 18 classical snare drum etudes” or whatevs. I’m hardly an expert at any perc but I have YouTube and a big ol screen to project it on, so.
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Apr 29, 2022 05:19
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Are these kids future percussionists in the school band or is this just a fun class? If this is potentially a group of future drummers I'd offer something that wasn't explained well to me until collage and caused avoidable frustration. Explain the basic anatomy of a snare drum. What all the parts do. How the snares work and how to change them and tune them. How do heads work, how does the material and thickness change the sound. What are the differences between the top (batter) head and the bottom (snare/resonator) head. These understandings will apply to all drums, snares are just the most fickle and complicated ones. What is a bearing edge, what does it mean for a drum to be In-round or out of round. Then, how to tune a drum. Both heads. Understanding the relationship between the two heads and why some drums only have one head and how that effects the sound. What a snare bed is. What sympathetic resonance is. A lot of young drummers, including me, have terrible sounding snare drums. School owned drums are often either a disaster or are quietly maintained by an instructor with out passing the skills along. They are often just muffled into oblivion if they are on a kit until they sound ok. A properly tuned drum almost never needs muffled as its default state, though it is often appropriate on individual songs. tldr: how to change and tune both heads and snare wires. how to tell if a drum is shot (out of round, damaged bearing edges) Personally I tune my snare head about a perf 4th above the batter, then loosen the lugs near the wires gradually to reduce bad-buzz and symp. reso from the rack toms. This is getting into the weeds though, and every drum is a little bit different.
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Apr 30, 2022 02:32
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taters posted:Are these kids future percussionists in the school band or is this just a fun class? It's both! I'm pulling all my band perc out of my band classes and putting them in this class. They always get half an education with the winds getting the bulk of the attention and they deserve a real one. But "class where you hit things loudly" has attracted plenty of new students as well. One of my goals is certainly to encourage them to continue participating in school music and maybe march drumline in HS; I have some marching percussion on order so they can get some hands-on experience. (edit - but I'm planning on going with the flow in the class and if I've got a crew of future drummers, then drumming is what we're gonna do. I'm guessing that the kids will eventually dovetail into instrument preferences and some of them will be happy to join my band kids at their concerts. Especially since there are field trips involved, lol.) This is fantastic advice (so thank you) and I think I might start with it/basic snare work at the beginning of the year. It will be good for me too, as my concert/kit snares are firmly of the "disaster" category.
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Apr 30, 2022 03:12
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A "disaster" drum is actually a good chance to learn about how they work and seeing if it is salvageable. -Remove all the heads, lugs and hoops. The batter may be ok, snare side heads can't really go back on. Think of them as a one time use membrane. -Inspect the bearing edge of both sides. This is where the head makes physical contact with the drum. Any serious damage here may scrap the drum. It also gets filthy so even if its intact a rub down is always good. -Check the geometry of the drum. The most important aspect of a drum is the its concentric. Any oval shape or twisting is bad news. You don't need rocket science level precision engineering here. Resting a new head on it can give you a pretty good idea if there are bad issues. Gaps at some points of the head are larger than in other spots. A yard stick works too. For twisting laying it on a flat surface works. If you school has a shop dept. they might have a surface plate which is ideal for this. -Do this same thing for the hoops, esp on the insides where it contacts the heads. Concentricity, no damage or corrosion, wipe them down. -Check all the loose lugs and the lug anchors. The lugs should be relatively free of rust and corrosion. A little is to be expected from a school drum though. A wire brush and commercial rush remover will get most of it. If there is bad pitting they may need to be replaced. Put a small amount of lubricating oil on them; your janitor/facilities probably has something. I use white lithium grease (this is almost universal in DCI snares now) which has a number of advantages but needs to be handled with care as it will damage wood surfaces, clothing, and even skin if its not washed off. I probably wouldn't let the kids handle it. A small amount is all you need. On the budget end, lots of drummers just use petroleum jelly, bike chain oil, or bar and chain oil. Lithium grease stops "backout" as when it settles it forms a weak "lock" that has to be broken before the lug will turn again but then works as a lube just fine after you crack it. Its enough to prevent the vibrations of playing to wiggle the lug out. Put some washers on them too if you can, plastic are preferred but anything works. -The lug anchors are the bits that are bolted to the shell the the lugs screw into. The screws that anchor these are loose all the time; I know nothing about your drums at all and I predict some will be lose. Esp. if the shells are wood. Tighten these up and check the internal threads for obvious damage. These are usually loose in new drums too. In fact they are probably lose more often on brand new drums than used ones. -Inspect the snare wires for obvious damage or corrosion. Shared snares can be treated awful hard sometimes. If they are put down roughly directly on the snares it can ruin them, esp fragile concert style snare wires. These aren't too expensive to replace. If you have an instrument junk yard you can probably just salvage. -Check the screws on the snare butt plate for stripping. This is very common; the screws are usually low quality butter knife steel and people way, way over tighten them. Make sure the snare throw mechanism works and its screws are also not stripped. Once you determined the drum is physically intact, its time to change the heads (And maybe snares). Rather than paste another wall of text there is a great video that covers this very, very well that I'll just link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paCUkRiNOWI - general snare set up video with tuning walkthrough. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3V6CEHlijM8 - much more in depth on doing the snare side head and the snares. This guy (like me) is a proponent of the "ruler" method for mounting the head. Rather then using key turns or pitch, you just measure how far onto the drum the head is at each lug with a ruler. You do tune by pitch at the end, but its much more important that the head is flat and even at first. You can ruin a snare head by mounting it poorly and you cant really "back off" very much. You can tune up more, but lowering the pitch loosens the head much more than if you had tuned up to that same pitch and left it there, effecting the snare wire response. This is key to getting those "tearing paper" concert rolls. Finally, don't clamp the stand on the bottom rim to hard. There should be a tiny amount of wiggle 1-2mm between the bottom hoop and the rubber grip hands. Enough to let if vibrate. All of this applies to brand new drums as well and I do this to every drum I get no matter how good it looks. I've found bits of scrap plastic and metal burs from manufacturing wedged between the heads and the shell or behind the anchor screws multiple times on direct from the factory new drums. The drums are fine, they just aren't quite "finished". New drums, esp as they get larger like bass and floor toms, can go oval in storage too if laid on their sides in poor conditions (hot/humid or cycling cold/hot) the weight of the shell eventually deforms it. "Gig" quality drums are infamous for this, sometimes called entry level pro. Pearl Exports, Gretch Catalina etc. Its amazing the quality that can be mass produced for reasonable prices now. You can put together an acceptable performance kit (not a student line), with cymbals, for <1k usd. This would have been unheard of 30 years ago when I started. The downside is they do huge factory runs of these prod lines and quality control cant catch them all, and they tend to get warehoused for longish periods.
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May 1, 2022 00:54
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Hawkperson posted:Hi y’all. I don’t hang in this thread much as I’m a really lovely drummer lol. But! Next year instead of a second intermediate group I will have a percussion class. (I teach middle school.) I am super loving excited and I am just wondering if there’s anything you ever wished you learned about drums/perc when you were 12 that you ended up having to learn on your own or later on in life. Sky’s the limit - sure I’ll teach em rudiments and so on but I also have 8 drum sets and want to give them a more well-rounded education than “perform 18 classical snare drum etudes” or whatevs. I’m hardly an expert at any perc but I have YouTube and a big ol screen to project it on, so. teach them about drum set--the pieces, where the wing screws are to adjust the angles/heights of everything, etc.. mention adjusting the instrument to you, not yourself to however the last person left it. you don't have to make a big deal about/spend a whole class on it, just mention it here and there when it pops up. after a handful of classes recruit a few friends/coworkers to disassemble/reassemble each kit in the worst ways possible. the less they know about drums the better. kids walk in, aw heck oh jeez idk what happened i guess we can't play until we're all set up  gimme a bit to find some example pics of when i did this at a summer camp edit: pics must be on an old phone somewhere cuz i couldn’t find them anywhere
Jazz Marimba fucked around with this message at 15:13 on May 2, 2022 |
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May 1, 2022 02:33
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Prank your dean by having the kids reassemble a full drum kit in his office 
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May 5, 2022 01:08
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1jnbeKxf7I
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May 16, 2022 01:15
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DISCLAIMER: i don't know a lot about drum sets, but i've played before, and i enjoy it! i'm a guitarist most of the time. We're trying to get a drum set here, and we were trying to use craigslist and face book marketplace (as suggested by the OP). Around here, most used drum sets are around 300 dollars, sometimes with worn out heads, missing the throne, etc. But for 380 dollars, we can get a new kit from amazon with everything in order. https://www.amazon.com/Best-Choice-Products-Sets-1263-Complete/dp/B008J1TEQ8 So, what's wrong with this set? Any better options at this price point? It seems like it might make sense for us to go with a new set instead of a used one. EDIT: this is for an adult noob to learn on, and I will play it sometimes too -- we are starting from nothing. Helianthus Annuus fucked around with this message at 13:50 on May 18, 2022 |
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May 18, 2022 13:47
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I buy a ton of poo poo off Amazon but I don't think I would ever buy a kit like this from them. From the pictures, it looks like any generic kit. OK to play for a bit but it doesn't look comfortable at all. The cymbals have no name and I bet are paper thin and sound like trash cans. Reading the reviews, it looks like everything comes disassembled (and even missing some parts) but I can't tell if that means you're just installing the heads or if you have to attach the lugs to the shells or what. Actually I went back read more and they say it should take 1.5 hours to assemble, which I think is very generous, so it looks like you'll be building these and I'm betting the shells crack if you don't use even pressure when tightening all the screws. So yes, they'll work but I'm not sure if I would personally be happy with the purchase.
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May 18, 2022 14:37
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100% better to buy a second hand kit from a manufacturer you've heard of, even if it's their entry-level range it'll be better than that junk. Worn skins can be replaced, a stool can be bought cheap, but horrible toy-quality shells and hardware (and particularly cymbals) will never be good. If you want to post a vague area for us to look in I expect some people itt would enjoy browsing local listing to find some value. Spending other people's money is fun!
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May 18, 2022 14:49
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I've found for most hobbies it works out in the long run to buy the best used gear you can get when starting out. If it's a hobby you end up enjoying then you will appreciate the extra quality and won't have to upgrade as soon. If you don't enjoy then it's a lot easier to sell quality used gear and get most of your money back vs selling lovely used gear.
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May 18, 2022 14:54
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