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Nagna Zul posted:I hate to ask, but...again, which character is this? Yrel
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May 18, 2022 04:53
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Y'rel, I think
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May 18, 2022 04:53
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Cythereal posted:Probably so, yeah. Draka (Thrall's mom) talks about how she can hop over to visit her husband in his afterlife anytime she wants, but right now she's happy to be hanging out in death metal Valhalla. I don't think that's quite right. A paladin following the Light's teaching is imho more likely to end up in Bastion, since the prerequisites to be sorted among the Kyrian has quite some overlap with the values the Light teaches. There's no direct connection between your religion and your afterlife, since the construction of the various Shadowlands realms is independent of whatever mortals believe their afterlife(s) to be, but certain religious teaching do make you more likely to end up in a specific afterlife.
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May 18, 2022 06:15
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All of this lore came afterwards, right? We're on Warcraft I right now, and surely they didn't have this "rich" backstory back then. As someone mentioned earlier, I've also heard the rumours that Warcraft I (and Starcraft also, maybe?) were originally meant to be Warhammer Fantasy (and 40k) but they couldn't get the licenses. Will you, at some point, tell us when they added certain things? Like, the Orcs being from another planet (or plane of existence) was added in WC2? And then Nerzhul and Medivh and Dreadlords and all that came from WC3? Maybe? I'm a bit fuzzy on when that stuff was added too, if I'm honest. I didn't care back when I played WC2, and cared for the brief time that I played WC3 and FT, and then never bothered with WoW.
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May 18, 2022 08:31
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Nerzhul and Medivh were from WC1 or 2, can't remember which. Dreadlords were invented in WC3
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May 18, 2022 08:55
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Nerzhul was mentioned in the manual for wc2, medivh as well if my hazy memories are right
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May 18, 2022 09:00
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Medivh is definitely in 1. And he summoned the orcs to azeroth in the manual, I believe.
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May 18, 2022 10:40
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painedforever posted:Will you, at some point, tell us when they added certain things? Like, the Orcs being from another planet (or plane of existence) was added in WC2?WoW. The WC1 manual has the orcs coming through a portal from their destroyed world into the human one. The WC1 manual also mentions the afterlife in a few of the spell descriptions, which has little resemblance to the later and more complex system described above. Happily, the most direct such example is one of two spells we've seen in the LP - the Necrolyte's basic attack. quote:Attack (Shadow Spear) quote:Raise Dead
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May 18, 2022 11:14
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Nagna Zul posted:I hate to ask, but...again, which character is this? Yrel. In alpha she was the mother of a character we'll meet in WC1, Garona (who herself is an awful mess of retcons and misogyny - and yes, I will in fact talk about her son). Then in beta she was just an accessory to Vindicator Maraad. The release version finally settled on her being a strong, capable, independent woman who later turned into Holy Hitler. Edit: And in any event, I felt bored and re-recorded Human 3 with no recording mishaps this time, doing it legit. Cythereal fucked around with this message at 13:59 on May 18, 2022 |
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May 18, 2022 12:29
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Shei-kun posted:So, I don't know if the GOG version has it, but the OG version of WarCraft I had on my 386 (yeah, loving ancient times just to let you know how old the franchise really is) came with a config program for viewing and editing the values of all the units and buildings, from cost and build time to range, damage, armor, the works. There was CONFIG.WAR and PREFS.WAR. Was there multiplayer WC1? I wonder if the minor variations resulted in one faction being much preferred. In the modern era, people would definitely number-crunch the poo poo out of that and demand “nerf archers extra range too broken” but idk if there even was a multiplayer WC1 scene (or if the game even supports it via LAN?)
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May 18, 2022 15:17
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MagusofStars posted:Was there multiplayer WC1? I wonder if the minor variations resulted in one faction being much preferred. In the modern era, people would definitely number-crunch the poo poo out of that and demand “nerf archers extra range too broken” but idk if there even was a multiplayer WC1 scene (or if the game even supports it via LAN?) IIRC it's generally agreed the Orcs are the stronger of the two factions, but I might be mixing this up with WC2.
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May 18, 2022 15:27
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Fortunately, wiki to the rescue! For the units we've seen so far: Peasant vs Peon: exactly equal Footman vs Grunt: exactly equal Archer vs Spearman: Archers have +1 range, Spearmen do +1 damage Cleric vs Necrolyte: Necrolytes have +1 range and +1 vision range, Necrolytes have Raise Dead, Clerics have Heal.
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May 18, 2022 16:03
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AtomikKrab posted:Also for the corruption bit, Forces of one side are really hilariously vulnerable to the opposing element. Wait, what? This is the complete opposite of how your cosmic opposing forces is supposed to work. Fire and Ice create the world *because* they are opposites that cannot destroy each other. The world is a result of these polar opposite forces meeting each other, creating chaos. If all the forces were *super vulnerable* to each other they all just would have merged into uninteresting purple stuff that would never have life in it.
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May 18, 2022 16:57
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painedforever posted:All of this lore came afterwards, right? Honestly, while 2 has more, it really isn't until 3 that Warcraft actually establishes Azeroth as a setting, and then in WoW they really turn on the hose. That said, the lion's share of lore currently being talked about, at least everything related to the afterlife, is specifically from Shadowlands, the most recent WoW expansion, and I believe the first one who's writing was and focus was done entirely post-Metzen, and it is, even by WoW standards, dire. Every single thing about religion and the afterlife and all of that was thrown out to make Sorta Warcraft Planescape, and the writing holes have really never been bigger. A general rule in WoW is that the lore and retcons and "new backstory" progressively gets worse after its second expansion, with the most recent two being especially poorly thought out.
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May 18, 2022 17:04
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ProfessorCirno posted:A general rule in WoW is that the lore and retcons and "new backstory" progressively gets worse after its second expansion, with the most recent two being especially poorly thought out. I personally divide WoW into three eras, which conveniently can be summed up by who is the most prominent Horde character. The Thrall Era: Vanilla, The Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King The Garrosh Era: Cataclysm, Mists of Pandaria, Warlords of Draenor The Sylvanas Era: Legion, Battle for Azeroth, Shadowlands TBD: Dragonflight
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May 18, 2022 17:10
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Nebakenezzer posted:Wait, what? Warcraft is all I can say
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May 18, 2022 17:17
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Nebakenezzer posted:The world is a result of these polar opposite forces meeting each other, creating chaos. In Warcraft, that entire cosmology was, in-setting, an artificial construct. I may do a more detailed lore post about this at some point in the future, but as of Shadowlands, everything in that cosmology chart was specifically built an unknown length of time ago by a race of beings known only as the First Ones. They created life, death, order, chaos, the Light, the Void, and reality alike, all in service of unknown ends. It's all a carefully constructed machine that creates, harvests, and transmits energy - what that energy does and where it goes, we do not know.
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May 18, 2022 17:30
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“And that was how the First Ones created, and then immediately despised, the race of man!” Wait, wrong game. ;D
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May 18, 2022 19:11
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achtungnight posted:“And that was how the First Ones created, and then immediately despised, the race of man!” In the beginning, the universe was created. This made a lot of people very unhappy and is widely regarded as a bad idea.
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May 18, 2022 19:14
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Cythereal posted:Yrel. In alpha she was the mother of a character we'll meet in WC1, Garona (who herself is an awful mess of retcons and misogyny - and yes, I will in fact talk about her son). Then in beta she was just an accessory to Vindicator Maraad. The release version finally settled on her being a strong, capable, independent woman who later turned into Holy Hitler. Fun fact about Garona's son - as far as I can tell, he was Retconned out of existence by the Warcraft Chronicles books. In the Third book, where he would have been mentioned, if you look up his name in the Index at the back of the book, it lists him being on "Page 404." The book is roughly 200 pages long, and events he was involved in are mentioned without bringing him up at all.
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May 18, 2022 19:19
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Cythereal posted:In Warcraft, that entire cosmology was, in-setting, an artificial construct. Yep, so in a sense the opposing forces easily converting to the other actually kind of makes sense, literally just throwing a lever from ORDER -> FEL LIGHT -> VOID LIFE -> DEATH Adjusting a big dial labeled warcrimes while looking back at the crowd like a contestant on the price is right.
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May 18, 2022 20:35
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Cythereal posted:In Warcraft, that entire cosmology was, in-setting, an artificial construct. Excited for expansions 13 where the First Ones are revealed to be corrupted and then expansion 17 where we find out who created the First Ones
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May 18, 2022 20:43
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Should be 'entropy-chaos', 'light-heavy', 'active-passive'
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May 18, 2022 20:45
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In the meantime, the subject of the next lore post has meant I have a choice of mostly pretty great artwork.
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May 18, 2022 20:50
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Cythereal posted:In the meantime, the subject of the next lore post has meant I have a choice of mostly pretty great artwork. Ah yes, the robot diety who wants to F/M/K the other robot dieties K: That one that got tentacled F: Argus M: Azeroth
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May 18, 2022 22:24
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Rarity posted:Excited for the book associated with expansions 13 where the First Ones are revealed to be corrupted and then the book associated with expansion 17 where we find out who created the First Ones
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May 18, 2022 22:41
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Question where does most of the lore post come from since I only played the Warcraft III and read a book on the day of the dragon.
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May 18, 2022 23:06
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MagusofStars posted:FTFY, because in the past couple expansions (especially Shadowlands), Blizzard has put more and more of the important storylines in the book rather than, y'know, the game itself. I love it when companies do that, yes, I'm going to read the fourteen tie in comics, and the novelization, and the movie, and not at all groan when I learn of their existence and at best skim a wiki about them.
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May 18, 2022 23:07
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ChaosDragon posted:Question where does most of the lore post come from since I only played the Warcraft III and read a book on the day of the dragon. Thirty years of games, books, comics, and cartoons. Particularly important are the Chronicles books, big art books intended as setting bibles to establish the history and lore of the setting once and for all. They were immediately retconned and pronounced the work of unreliable narrators, but the thought was nice.
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May 18, 2022 23:09
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So the games only have the broad stroke of the total plot?
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May 18, 2022 23:33
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ChaosDragon posted:So the games only have the broad stroke of the total plot? They present a fairly coherent plot for the purposes of the games themselves. If you're happy to just play the RTS games and enjoy their story, well, that does work but this is the wrong thread for that.  Neither campaign in Warcraft 1 is strictly canon, for example. While the orc campaign is mostly canon, there's a couple of important events that happen in the human campaign that are important for the series moving forward.
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May 18, 2022 23:36
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Cythereal posted:Thirty years of games, books, comics, and cartoons. "immediately" better read "A few years later"
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May 19, 2022 00:34
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MagusofStars posted:FTFY, because in the past couple expansions (especially Shadowlands), Blizzard has put more and more of the important storylines in the book rather than, y'know, the game itself.
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May 19, 2022 00:43
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Cythereal posted:Fortunately, wiki to the rescue! For the units we've seen so far:
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May 19, 2022 01:10
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Cythereal posted:They present a fairly coherent plot for the purposes of the games themselves. If you're happy to just play the RTS games and enjoy their story, well, that does work but this is the wrong thread for that. But as you get deeper into the MMO more and more huge events happen outside the game. For example the outcome of an entire expansion that leads up to a warcrimes trial for an Ork (including the judgement of the tribunal) and the setup for the next expansion that involves time-travel/parrell universes all happens in a book between expansions. From a players perspective you log out one day after kicking Ork Hitler's teeth in and the next morning Alternate Dimension from the Past (oh poo poo is that my grandad with that gun???) Orks are invading (again). No lead up or explanation as to why. You don't even find out what happened to Ork Hitler until 4/5ths of your way through the leveling experience of the new expansion. And then the game commits it's other favorite sin of making you watch another character deal with them rather than you the player having any involvement in this huge moment. Phrosphor fucked around with this message at 01:25 on May 19, 2022 |
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May 19, 2022 01:14
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Are we good to talk about the Alliance questlines in Vanilla WoW by the way? There's a lot there that I think is going to be relevant here that I'd like to write about!
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May 19, 2022 01:38
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Natural 20 posted:Are we good to talk about the Alliance questlines in Vanilla WoW by the way? Go ahead! Though I will talk about the Black Dragonflight specifically later, so please don't go into detail about that.
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May 19, 2022 01:40
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Cythereal posted:Go ahead! Though I will talk about the Black Dragonflight specifically later, so please don't go into detail about that. I'd say anything regarding the Defias should probably wait until WC2 is done?
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May 19, 2022 02:15
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Siegkrow posted:I'd say anything regarding the Defias should probably wait until WC2 is done? Nah. I'm assuming everyone in this thread knows the basics of the plot up through vanilla WoW.
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May 19, 2022 02:18
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Cythereal posted:Nah. I'm assuming everyone in this thread knows the basics of the plot up through vanilla WoW. Some of us don't and would like a rough chart of it at some point.
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May 19, 2022 03:50
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