|
Tomn posted:In fairness, my understanding is that Russian electronic warfare WAS actually very effective at the opening of the war. If you can't do frequency deconfliction, you aren't good at EW.
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 00:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 04:14 |
|
|
Stultus Maximus posted:If you can't do frequency deconfliction, you aren't good at EW. Sounds like they grade their EW on the same scale they use for their hostage rescue.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 00:32
|
|
|
That Works posted:Who got the byline for that one Raytheon or lockmart? Lol I used to get targeted ads from Raytheon on Twitter about my indirect fire needs. Guess they’ve gotten better about their marketing dollars
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 00:41
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:So in addition to Turkey going 'we accept payment in cash or credit' over Finland and Sweden joining NATO, the Balkans have decided to be the Balkans about it. I don't think Turkey wants payment in anything but F-35s.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 00:48
|
|
|
How did those countries get admittance to NATO in the first place? I highly doubt every single member was on board when the Iron Curtain was falling
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 00:58
|
|
|
The Baltic states spent the better part of a decade voluntarily reorganizing their militaries into being NATO compatible and they were extremely willing participants in basically everything NATO did, from exercises to actual uses of force. It was in a real way a response to those pickups that started the original trend of Russia majorly freaking out about NATO expansion, which in the early 2000s gets us back to basically the start of the current conflict after Ukraine is told that it has an eventual path into NATO. Obviously this conflict isn't actually about NATO, it started because of Russian expansionism and it will stop when Russia stops trying to conquer their neighbors, but the Baltic states were a bit ahead of the pack at realizing just how urgent the need to get into a defensive pact was. Georgia, Ukraine, Moldova, etc. were all less fortunate or had far bigger structural obstacles to making themselves desirable members. e: lmao oh you asked balkans, thought you said baltics. w/e leaving that
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 01:03
|
|
|
Aces High posted:How did those countries get admittance to NATO in the first place? I highly doubt every single member was on board when the Iron Curtain was falling "the enemy of communism is my friend"
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 01:50
|
|
|
Eh, it’s just the marginal players getting some recognition that they are important too and why yes, they do like handouts. It will take some work but I would be really surprised if Sweden and Finland aren’t accepted pretty quick.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 01:50
|
|
|
Russian chess-brain dictates we invade Scandinavia before they become Nato
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 01:58
|
|
|
https://youtu.be/n2rEc4MPp-4 Really interesting CNN piece about that Ukrainian SBU, going after collaborators or people straight up feeding Intel to the Russians, you see a snatch team and interrogation done in front of the CNN cameras (and two members of the Ukrainian public) which seems to exist mostly to prove that they will not (immediately) beat him the death with a tire iron, among other things. CW: Nothing really besides a dude getting arrested and interrogated.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 01:59
|
|
|
Comrade Blyatlov posted:Russian chess-brain dictates we invade Scandinavia before they become Nato Let them try.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 02:02
|
|
|
Herstory Begins Now posted:Obviously this conflict isn't actually about NATO, Actually, it's about ethics in games journalism.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 03:14
|
|
|
Wibla posted:Let them try.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 04:00
|
|
|
Stultus Maximus posted:I don't think Turkey wants payment in anything but F-35s. I’d say give ‘em the 35s as long as they promise to take the shot when they get the chance.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 04:34
|
|
|
The Turkish F-35 issue can be solved by them handing over S-400 to the US as part payment. All the pathetic whining about supposedly harboring "terrorists" in Finland and Sweden? gently caress right off. Jimmy Smuts posted:I wouldn't even be all that surprised if this is the next stage in this epically stupid clusterfuck of a conflict. Winter War 2.0 (3.0?), but with good fighter aircraft on the Scandinavian side instead of rejected allied aircraft. Part of me wishes they do, then we can deal with Erdogan after mopping up what remains of the Russian armed forces. It boggles my mind that we've come to this, and it' not even immediately getting dismissed as Clancychat.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 04:44
|
|
|
Wibla posted:
Seeing as I'd be one of the people fighting and dying in that mess, let's not wish that even jokingly, please.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 06:38
|
|
|
Stultus Maximus posted:If you can't do frequency deconfliction, you aren't good at EW. If there's one thing that's become apparent, it's that Russia's long tradition of neglecting the human element of the military while investing heavily in technology is still as strong as ever.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 07:34
|
|
|
Turkey has actual-real-not-hyperbole on the internet hyperinflation going on and is skating on the precipice of not having FX to pay for natural gas imports. They are in this situation as a direct result of Erdogan's meddling in their central bank policy (inflation high? Cut interest because usury. Not entirely making this up). Turkey imports about 75% of its energy, which means that it can't hyperinflate in peace and rely on indigenous energy contracts denominated in lira. Polling (yes, I know) currently puts Erdogan down for a loss to the CHP in 2023. 2023 is a long way off (it still being March 2020) but I could see Turks freezing and starving in the dark pulling Erdogan's exit date forward. Or making him more pliant to bribes denominated in megajoules.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 10:19
|
|
|
IPCRESS posted:Turkey has actual-real-not-hyperbole on the internet hyperinflation going on and is skating on the precipice of not having FX to pay for natural gas imports. Erdogan will never face a fair election for the rest of his life. You know what galls me the most about his demands, though? It's not the bribes in air frames, or that he is allowed to cozy up to the Russians as much as he wants, it's that he insists that the US hand over Gülen to get disappeared just because that that man said some unflattering things about Erdogan one time. I'd rather see the whole alliance get dismantled than for that to happen. Besides, if Turkey decides to fully poison pill the alliance, nothing is preventing the key members from backing out of NATO and immediately standing up NOT-NATO, except with hookers and blackjack.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 11:15
|
|
|
joe would be worse than trump in that regard if he gave in
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 11:30
|
|
|
A.o.D. posted:Erdogan will never face a fair election for the rest of his life. Him and Gülen were literally best buds in crime and stealing, until they had a falling out about which one should get to loot all the state assets. It's literally one big mafia turf war except with a country of 84 million people as collateral damage.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 12:10
|
|
|
mrmcd posted:Him and Gülen were literally best buds in crime and stealing, until they had a falling out about which one should get to loot all the state assets. It's literally one big mafia turf war except with a country of 84 million people as collateral damage. That's an interesting take. Can you clarify?
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 12:12
|
|
|
Remember how Flynn pleaded guilty to failing to register as a foreign agent because he took hundreds of thousands from Erdogan to kidnap Gülen and take him to Turkey?
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 12:54
|
|
|
That’s wild, I wonder how his 20-year prison sentence is treating him
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 12:58
|
|
|
Huh, what? He never did time. Of course.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 13:09
|
|
|
Force de Fappe posted:Huh, what? He never did time. Of course. 
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 13:24
|
|
|
https://youtu.be/M8YjxbzGlzw Five years ago today, Erdogan’s bodyguards attacked protestors and cops outside of their embassy in DC. It was a complete shitshow. Again, gently caress Erdogan.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 13:48
|
|
|
Now, I'm not to suggest that Gülen is a saint. I just don't know that much about him. I am aware that prior to the early 2000s he was an associate of Erdogan's. There is one thing in Gülen's history that tells me he's not just Erdogan part 2: he has acknowledged the Armenian genocide and acknowledged that it was a terrible crime. He's also been the target of a decades long state level smear campaign, so it's unreasonably difficult to access reliable information about him.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 13:54
|
|
|
IPCRESS posted:Polling (yes, I know) currently puts Erdogan down for a loss to the CHP in 2023. I had a horrible moment where I thought I was back in March of 2020, please delet this
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 14:20
|
|
|
Vengarr posted:I had a horrible moment where I thought I was back in March of 2020, please delet this
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 14:32
|
|
|
standard.deviant posted:Today is the 810th of March 2020 Today is the 10488th day of September, 1993.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 14:40
|
|
|
A.o.D. posted:That's an interesting take. Can you clarify? The fundamental tension in modern Turkey is whether or not Turkey should be a secular, European aligned state, or a Muslim, eastern aligned country. This goes back to the fall of the Ottoman empire, and Ataturk founding the Turkish republic and his big project of rebuilding Turkey into a modern, secular country from rotting pieces of the Ottoman empire, and the creation of Kemalism. This isn't to say that the Kemalists are saintly champions of western values -- they orchestrated the Armenian genocide, were just as lovely to the Kurds as everyone else, and have a lot of the insane nationalist tendencies as the religious factions. Pretty much every book by Orhan Pamuk (a Noble winning Turkish author), for example, involves a male protagonist who drinks way too much and is torn up inside between wanting to be a wealthy, integrated European, while still unreconciled with his eastern, Muslim identity, and the accompanying racism towards Turks from the rest of Europe. Erdogan's main power base is in disaffected and poorer religious conservatives, and opposition to pretty much everything Ataturk did. Erdogan hates Ataturk, and has done tons of stuff to try and tear down his mythical status in Turkey (mostly so he can take his place). He took Ataturk's name off the Istanbul airport, for example. He built a giant mosque in Taksim square (a huge symbol of the Turkish revolution and the secular Turkish state). He turned Hagia Sofia back into a mosque, which Ataturk had turned in into a non-religious cultural heritage site. Almost certainly Erdogan doesn't actually give a poo poo about being a pious, religious man, but like every good strong man, uses conservative religious paranoia to his advantage. Gulen is the leader of a religious movement that, while not a fire and brimstone kinda deal, is very rooted in a sort of spiritual reawakening and rejection of secular life and the secular state. They were natural allies during Erdogan's rise to power, and Gulen was a major AKP (Erdogan's party) supporter in the past. This lasted until Erdogan basically decided that Gulen and his faction were no longer useful, consolidated his power, rewrote the Turkish constitution, and decided to essentially cut the Gulen out of the spoils of power. This comes to a head in the 2016 coup attempt. Officially Erdogan blames it on Gulenists. There's a more conspiratorial minded take among cynical (often secular) Turks that, having seen lots of coups in the past and consider themselves connoisseurs of the art form, the 2016 was a "fake coup" staged by Erdogan. I think it's also just a likely that, finding themselves cut out of power and angry, the Gulen faction overestimated their actual support and competence, and launched a laughably bad coup. Whatever the case, Erdogan has basically used it as an excuse to purge his political enemies of all stripes, neuter political freedoms in Turkey, and continuously ramped up paranoia about Gulenists hiding in every ficus, just ready to destroy Turkey. People who just post "actually genociding the Armenians and Kurds was bad, maybe" on Facebook are now suddenly Gulenists terrorists and thrown in prison, despite the dude actually having very little power anymore.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 14:46
|
|
|
The only thing I'd disagree on would be the part where Erdogan doesn't believe he is pious. A really cynical man wouldn't be dealing with this level of hyperinflation. A really cynical man would eventually listen to his advisors telling him that lowering interest rates is making the inflation issue, which is hurting his support and his personal wealth, much worse. At the very least, Erdogan's behavior goes beyond the level of a typical Iranian cleric, since they have publicly proclaimed that "Turns out the Qu'ran doesn't say anything about highly complex international finance and derivatives."
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 15:04
|
|
|
Mr. Nice! posted:Today is the 10488th day of September, 1993. Russian looter: "Soda? Blyat. Purple Stuff? Blyat. Sunny D? Blyat. Vodka? Rad!"
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 15:04
|
|
|
Voyager I posted:Sounds like they grade their EW on the same scale they use for their hostage rescue. I'm honestly still shocked that the Dubrovka Theater incident didn't end with Spetznaz hosing down the attendees with the terrorist's weapons just to dodge any sort of blame or culpability for use of a volatile chemical incapacitant. "Oh well, it was unlikely to succeed in the first place, at least they didn't get their bombs off!" 
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 15:08
|
|
|
golden bubble posted:The only thing I'd disagree on would be the part where Erdogan doesn't believe he is pious. A really cynical man wouldn't be dealing with this level of hyperinflation. A really cynical man would eventually listen to his advisors telling him that lowering interest rates is making the inflation issue, which is hurting his support and his personal wealth, much worse. At the very least, Erdogan's behavior goes beyond the level of a typical Iranian cleric, since they have publicly proclaimed that "Turns out the Qu'ran doesn't say anything about highly complex international finance and derivatives." I think he's just massively incompetent. He literally made his son-in-law the Minister of Finance, who has like zero experience or education with macroeconomics or government. It's Trump levels of nepotism and failsons at all levels.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 15:19
|
|
|
mrmcd posted:The fundamental tension in modern Turkey is whether or not Turkey should be a secular, European aligned state, or a Muslim, eastern aligned country. This goes back to the fall of the Ottoman empire, and Ataturk founding the Turkish republic and his big project of rebuilding Turkey into a modern, secular country from rotting pieces of the Ottoman empire, and the creation of Kemalism. This isn't to say that the Kemalists are saintly champions of western values -- they orchestrated the Armenian genocide, were just as lovely to the Kurds as everyone else, and have a lot of the insane nationalist tendencies as the religious factions. Pretty much every book by Orhan Pamuk (a Noble winning Turkish author), for example, involves a male protagonist who drinks way too much and is torn up inside between wanting to be a wealthy, integrated European, while still unreconciled with his eastern, Muslim identity, and the accompanying racism towards Turks from the rest of Europe. It sounds like you give a lot of credence to Erdogan's conspiracy theory laying the blame for the 2016 coup attempt at the feet of a man who had been in exile for roughly 16 years. Is that a good read?
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 16:21
|
|
|
A.o.D. posted:It sounds like you give a lot of credence to Erdogan's conspiracy theory laying the blame for the 2016 coup attempt at the feet of a man who had been in exile for roughly 16 years. Is that a good read? This sure is a bad faith reaction lol
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 16:36
|
|
|
A.o.D. posted:It sounds like you give a lot of credence to Erdogan's conspiracy theory laying the blame for the 2016 coup attempt at the feet of a man who had been in exile for roughly 16 years. Is that a good read? I'm not sure we read the same post there.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 16:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 04:14 |
|
|
https://twitter.com/iAmTheWarax/status/1527250316487532546?t=A1DpVWqX4YFlzDCMBJyOwg&s=19 This got a good chuckle from me
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2022 16:51
|
|
