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I've been getting an itch to tinker and I think I'm gonna try to pick up a 4080 in a few months and rebuild my current ncase M1 into something else (maybe a Meshilicious?) Seems like it will require a PSU upgrade. Currently rocking a z390 / i5-9600K and I don't think there's a tremendous improvement to be had by upgrading, but wanted to check in. Will a beefier CPU make much of a difference? Goal is generic high refresh rate 4K gaming.
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May 18, 2022 18:23
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Oxyclean posted:I'm tempted to bump from 16 gigs to 32 Gigs of ram, current relevant hardware is: How important is first word/cas latencies? I think my current sticks have CL16 for CAS, so I just want to avoid inadvertently downgrading something. I've got 2x8GB 3600 currently, and I just kind of want more cause cause I leave a lot running. I'm figuring I'd just replace the current with 2x16, but could I run new memory + old memory (so 2x16 in one pair and 2x8 in the other) without drawbacks?
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May 18, 2022 18:30
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mega dy posted:I've been getting an itch to tinker and I think I'm gonna try to pick up a 4080 in a few months and rebuild my current ncase M1 into something else (maybe a Meshilicious?) Seems like it will require a PSU upgrade. I think you'll probably be good with that CPU when it comes to 4K gaming, though it really depends on just how many frames the 4080 will be capable of pushing out at that resolution, and UE5's early (unofficial/unoptimized) demos are awfully CPU heavy. I think right now it's mostly safe to assume that a new CPU won't give you a huge benefit since 4K in general is far more demanding on the GPU, but I wouldn't make any decisions until reviews are in and tests are done.
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May 18, 2022 18:31
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six threads is a little rough and more CPU would get you better 1% and .1% - in fact i'm repeating myselfCoolCab posted:if you have money to burn the 5800X3D is a very very powerful gaming chip that has advantages in particular titles due to unusual cache, look them up and see if it's the titles you play. it will be a jump (i suspect the 5800X3D will be the most desirable AM4 socket chip in the end) and you'd expect a lot better performance in CPU limited tasks, but a 3600 is still a very good chip and AM5 is around the corner, although that would be a full rebuild. a 9600k is pretty similar to a 3600, came out within a year of each other although the 3600 has more threads the 9600k iirc is better at gaming. at 4k in terms of absolute performance you'll be GPU bottlenecked well, quite literally 99% of the time.
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May 18, 2022 18:31
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If I mainly game at 1440p I assume I won't see much benefit from upgrading my 3600 either? CPU utilization in pretty much every game tops out at ~70%
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May 18, 2022 18:44
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change my name posted:If I mainly game at 1440p I assume I won't see much benefit from upgrading my 3600 either? CPU utilization in pretty much every game tops out at ~70% A more accurate measure would be looking at your GPU utilization: is that always at 98% or higher? If not, then it may be underutilized, which could be due to your CPU lagging behind. Since 70% is just an average across all cores and most games don't utilize your cores evenly, you could have one or two threads being maxed out. I don't think I'd worry about it too much even if you are losing a few percent, though. I wouldn't upgrade until you think you'll get a truly substantial boost from doing so.
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May 18, 2022 18:47
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:A more accurate measure would be looking at your GPU utilization: is that always at 98% or higher? If not, then it may be underutilized, which could be due to your CPU lagging behind. Since 70% is just an average across all cores and most games don't utilize your cores evenly, you could have one or two threads being maxed out. In most cases yes, I'm running a 3070 and trying to push as many frames possible since I have a 170hz monitor. So I guess I'll wait another generation or two.
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May 18, 2022 18:50
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Wickerman posted:This CPU/Mobo/cooler combo for price to performance is excellent and I'm probably gonna snag it for a build for a family member. Thanks! Price to performance is my whole jam, so that's flattering to hear.  Ended up swapping the CPU to a 12600k to accommodate future GPU upgrade plans, but I was very tempted to just keep this trio.
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May 18, 2022 18:55
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Here's a good article from Tom's Hardware that compares the price to performance ratio of all the video cards using their actual street prices: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/graphics-card-prices-fall-best-current-gpu-deals The street prices are pretty up to date from what I'm seeing. It's theoretically possible to get AIB versions of a few of them for cheaper (e.g. $465 3060 Tis from EVGA whenever that's in stock, plus $20 shipping probably), and of course FEs still exist, but for the most part that seems like an accurate list of prices. The performance being rated is derived from their review data, and it's rasterization only, no DLSS (though FSR2.0 will mostly even the playing field there). If you want to do ray tracing, then the numbers tilt much more heavily in nvidia's favor. I feel like they should've cut the 1080p medium category and put in an RT category instead, but meh. Anyway, that's why I've been recommending AMD more in the midrange. Similar comparisons from TechPowerUp and HardwareUnboxed have also shown the same thing where AMD is winning that particular performance category. Oh, and they also link to where they've found the cheapest of each model type, which makes for a handy shopping guide, though the cheapest cards change every day. PCPartPicker doesn't track a lot of these GPUs properly, so you should manually search around the major retailers before buying anything. edit: also be aware that AMD is saying that they won't be making any more 6600 XTs. That SKU will be phased out in favor of the 6650 XT, though the 6700 XT and 6900 XT will remain. The 6600 XT I linked to at Amazon has a short backorder currently. There may be more 6600 XTs making their way into retail channels over the next month or so as shipments arrive, but then that will be it. The $355 deal is better than $400 for the 6650 XT for sure, so if you're interested in that, now is the time to buy擁t won't get any better than that. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 05:56 on May 19, 2022 |
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May 19, 2022 03:33
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looking to replace my 6600k. It's not unworkable but when it chokes on stuff in games i'm spoiled enough to find it unbearable when it doesn't. Currently looking at the 12700k (Or KF? is there a reason to care about the iGPU?) but I'm having a hard time picking a motherboard, other than knowing I need the Z- kind. Feel like theyve gotten more expensive to get the same amount of stuff as before. Although I've always find it hard to compare them Some other points of consideration: ive currently got a kit of 2x8 3000mhz ddr4 sticks. Obviously I can keep using them, but considering i got like 6 years out of this I'm probably going to be on whatever kit I have for the next 6 too I also am currently using a hyper 212 so I'm thinking of maybe bumping up the cooling capacity too depending on cost tangential but while i'm in the guts of the case, I'd like to dust it out but I always find canned air to not really do that great a job. Like it gets most of the dust but theres always some leftover
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May 19, 2022 06:12
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I'm looking for a GPU for my wife. The reason I'm looking is that her onboard video only does VGA+DVI and she has two monitors which are DVI and HDMI (only) - that's it. She doesn't need any actual 'GPU' functionality or good 3d support or anything, it's an office computer, running Windows 10 if that matters. I'm in the UK. What's the cheapest option I'm looking at here? 
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May 19, 2022 12:35
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you're probably better off just getting a new CPU that has integrated graphics with the outputs you need (it must be very old to only have VGA & DVI) instead of getting a discrete GPU if that's the use case
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May 19, 2022 13:29
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feedmegin posted:I'm looking for a GPU for my wife. The reason I'm looking is that her onboard video only does VGA+DVI and she has two monitors which are DVI and HDMI (only) - that's it. She doesn't need any actual 'GPU' functionality or good 3d support or anything, it's an office computer, running Windows 10 if that matters. I'm in the UK. What's the cheapest option I'm looking at here? first check Facebook market for something secondhand, but like a GT710 I think is the ultra low frill option, but it might be cheaper to buy some secondhand junk. or you could buy an adapter, hdmi to VGA is cheap as chips.
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May 19, 2022 13:38
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I'm looking to get a UPS but don't really have a clue where to start. I've only used surge protectors in the past, but since I've learned that I've mostly been lucky that something bad hasn't happened. My setup has a 750w power supply and two monitors. I honestly don't care about it staying running long enough to finish up work, I just don't want a surge frying anything.
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May 19, 2022 15:53
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Floppychop posted:I'm looking to get a UPS but don't really have a clue where to start. I've only used surge protectors in the past, but since I've learned that I've mostly been lucky that something bad hasn't happened. Go with Belkin. They make quality products. https://www.amazon.com/Belkin-12-Outlet-Protector-Protection-BE112234-10/dp/B000HPX46U
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May 19, 2022 16:01
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I swear by APC, as the only one I've ever had fail on me was one of those giant lead-acid getups that powered my home theatre for ~15 years. Cyberpower's lower end models have popped on me in less than five. I'm starting to get annoyed with PowerChute under Windows 11 though; sometimes I check the system tray and the soft shutdown service has failed to start. The software rarely gets updated and could really use it.
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May 19, 2022 16:19
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CoolCab posted:or you could buy an adapter, hdmi to VGA is cheap as chips. ...are you sure? One's analogue, the other's digital. That doesn't sound low cost to me. Edit: guess for a tenner I can try it! feedmegin fucked around with this message at 16:43 on May 19, 2022 |
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May 19, 2022 16:37
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lih posted:you're probably better off just getting a new CPU that has integrated graphics with the outputs you need (it must be very old to only have VGA & DVI) instead of getting a discrete GPU if that's the use case It's not going to be 'a new CPU' though is it, it'll be CPU+motherboard+RAM. I'd be surprised if that's cheaper than a crappy graphics card.
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May 19, 2022 16:44
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feedmegin posted:...are you sure? One's analogue, the other's digital. That doesn't sound low cost to me.
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May 19, 2022 16:53
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Shumagorath posted:I currently use DisplayPort to VGA this on a family PC because the monitor has some weird HDMI profile that causes the image to shift off-center on newer PCs / Windows versions. The only other input is VGA and it works alright. If I'm understanding you right, this is the other way round. This is an analogue VGA output from the (ancient, yes) PC that needs to become HDMI.
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May 19, 2022 16:58
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Shumagorath posted:I swear by APC, as the only one I've ever had fail on me was one of those giant lead-acid getups that powered my home theatre for ~15 years. Cyberpower's lower end models have popped on me in less than five. I'm starting to get annoyed with PowerChute under Windows 11 though; sometimes I check the system tray and the soft shutdown service has failed to start. The software rarely gets updated and could really use it. Any tips as to which size/capacity I should aim for just for simple protection? I honestly don't care if the battery only lasts 5 seconds, I only care about the hardware not getting fried. I'd also not rather have a giant monolith taking up a ton of space on or under my desk.
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May 19, 2022 17:04
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I was planning on upgrading with an intel 12700F, but microcenter has the 12700K on sale for $340, which is just $30 more than the F version, so I thought that would be money well spent. I was planning to get the MSI Mag Z690 Tomahawk and a WD Black SN750, which together with the CPU comes to $784. Microcenter is offering a bundle with the same CPU and SSD, but with a different motherboard, an ASUS B660. They're selling that bundle for $612, which seems like a pretty cool deal, and more than $150 less than I was looking at previously. Obviously, the big difference is the MOBO chipset. If I don't care about overclocking, am I losing anything important by going from the Z690 to the B660? Or, if I'm not planning to overclock, should I just go with the 12700F and put myself back where I started?
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May 19, 2022 17:06
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feedmegin posted:...are you sure? One's analogue, the other's digital. That doesn't sound low cost to me. i want to say, and people smarter than me can confirm, that on top of the digital signal HDMI does carry the analogue signal as part of the protocol for some reason so it's just a straight passthrough. now, i know that's true for monitor is VGA PC is HDMI, i have never tried the inverse and i imagine you need a device that specifies which direction it goes because i doubt it's bidirectional but i can confirm a VGA to HDMI dongle works in my mum's PC literally right now.
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May 19, 2022 17:08
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feedmegin posted:If I'm understanding you right, this is the other way round. This is an analogue VGA output from the (ancient, yes) PC that needs to become HDMI. Floppychop posted:Any tips as to which size/capacity I should aim for just for simple protection? I honestly don't care if the battery only lasts 5 seconds, I only care about the hardware not getting fried. I'd also not rather have a giant monolith taking up a ton of space on or under my desk. Shumagorath fucked around with this message at 17:24 on May 19, 2022 |
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May 19, 2022 17:18
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feedmegin posted:It's not going to be 'a new CPU' though is it, it'll be CPU+motherboard+RAM. I'd be surprised if that's cheaper than a crappy graphics card. feedmegin posted:If I'm understanding you right, this is the other way round. This is an analogue VGA output from the (ancient, yes) PC that needs to become HDMI. If the adapter thing doesn't work out (hope it does!) and the PC is that old, imo you'll probably still be better off with whatever cheapie modern cpu/motherboard/ram combo meets your output needs. I don't know anything about the low end so I'll let others help with exactly what. But I assume it's not too much more than a crappy GPU, and if the system is that old I'd wager a modern upgrade will give her a much better experience even in her desktop/office work. Buying a crappy gpu to further drag out the life of what is now (by the sound of it) a crappy pc doesn't make much sense to me, even if it does save a few short-term dollars. You're going to end up spending more money and generating more waste in the long run when you inevitably have to modernize that thing anyway. Unsinkabear fucked around with this message at 17:30 on May 19, 2022 |
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May 19, 2022 17:24
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I'm a bonehead for chasing a certain temp with my 12900K when there's literally just an option to set the max temp in the BIOS and it works great. Yeah, it constrains performance too, but I was trying to get this exact thing accomplished in such roundabout ways and here it is, easy mode. I have not had worse performance using it versus chasing the same low temp through undervolting & more heavily restricting wattage, etc.; it's just nice to have a set and forget "fail safe" so I don't ever have to worry about some stray AVX shader compiling heating my stuff up unexpectedly. That said, I still can't figure out why it's apparently fine for these CPUs to get so hot when it freaked us all out in the past. Were we just being oversensitive? Is it really possibly safe for these modern CPUs to get to 85+, 90+, even touch 100C? I just can't feel comfortable with that kind of heat, I'm freaking out in the low 80s. But I know Intel engineers aren't stupid and it seems unlikely they'd configure these processors to be killing themselves without drastic and extreme cooling. If anyone really truly knows IF and WHY it is safe to get to 85ｺC+ on high end processors these days, I'd love an explanation as if to a worried moron.
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May 19, 2022 17:38
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Racing Stripe posted:I was planning on upgrading with an intel 12700F, but microcenter has the 12700K on sale for $340, which is just $30 more than the F version, so I thought that would be money well spent. You also lose some virtualization features meant for professionals by going with F SKUs, and memory overclocking can be a bit more restrictive since some of the memory controller voltages are locked on the non-K SKU. And of course, no iGPU on the 12700F. As for running K SKUs on a B660 board, the GPU slot will often be downgraded to PCIe 4.0, though this probably won't actually matter in practice. You also get less IO and fewer m.2 slots usually, so check those to see if you aren't losing anything you want. The bigger deal though is a lot of cheaper B660 motherboards aren't actually equipped to handle a 12700K's power draw. Many of them will overheat and end up throttling performance. You have to be sure the board you're getting is a good one. Here's a chart that shows 18 different boards with a 12700, which actually consumes slightly less power than the 12700K:  Asus isn't faring too well here until you get to the Tuf Gaming series.
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May 19, 2022 17:40
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Props to the Tomahawk, but also good loving God at the lower half of that chart.
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May 19, 2022 17:43
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Agreed posted:I'm a bonehead for chasing a certain temp with my 12900K when there's literally just an option to set the max temp in the BIOS and it works great. Yeah, it constrains performance too, but I was trying to get this exact thing accomplished in such roundabout ways and here it is, easy mode. I have not had worse performance using it versus chasing the same low temp through undervolting & more heavily restricting wattage, etc.; it's just nice to have a set and forget "fail safe" so I don't ever have to worry about some stray AVX shader compiling heating my stuff up unexpectedly. It is generally safe to run up to 100C, yes, though I wouldn't want to be there 24/7. As for why it's safe now when it wasn't considered safe before, I believe a large part of that is because we have better temperature sensing now. CPUs back in the day had just a few sensors at most, and they often wouldn't be near the most sensitive spots. It was unreliable and Intel/AMD would have to undershoot the safe zone to make sure there weren't any undetected hotspots getting cooked. Not to mention that thermal throttling wasn't even a thing for a while. Nowadays, there are literally dozens/hundreds of sensors spread across nearly every part of the CPU, and the auto-throttling mechanisms are sophisticated enough to ensure that the CPU never gets hot enough damage itself.
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May 19, 2022 17:47
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:You also lose some virtualization features meant for professionals by going with F SKUs, and memory overclocking can be a bit more restrictive since some of the memory controller voltages are locked on the non-K SKU. And of course, no iGPU on the 12700F. Wow, incredible. Thanks so much. This is just not the kind of info I would ever think to look at myself. The B660 had enough m.2 for my needs and the IO looked fine, but that heat chart looks pretty dire. If I go with a Z690 board I assume it値l be better equipped to handle the bigger power draw. I値l check for that info myself. Also looks like the B660 tomahawk would do fine, and it痴 a few bucks cheaper than the z690, so I値l look into that. Thanks again. Racing Stripe fucked around with this message at 17:52 on May 19, 2022 |
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May 19, 2022 17:49
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Racing Stripe posted:Wow, incredible. Thanks so much. This is just not the kind of info I would ever think to look at myself. The B660 had enough m.2 for my needs and the IO looked fine, but that heat chart looks pretty dire. If I go with a Z690 board I assume it値l be better equipped to handle the bigger power draw. I値l check for that info myself. Also looks like the B660 tomahawk would do fine, and it痴 a few bucks cheaper than the z690, so I値l look into that. Thanks again. I can't think of any Z690 motherboards with VRMs weak enough to fail in the way that those lower-end B660 boards do. Everyone overbuilds their power deliver to a hilarious degree with that chipset because they expect it to be paired with overclocked 12900Ks and poo poo. The B660 Tomahawk is a solid board though, so there should be no problem there.
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May 19, 2022 17:55
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Unsinkabear posted:If the adapter thing doesn't work out (hope it does!) and the PC is that old, imo you'll probably still be better off with whatever cheapie modern cpu/motherboard/ram combo meets your output needs. It has an SSD and some extra old RAM of mine in it. It's not the 90s any more, if you're basically running Excel and Word you really don't need more than that. She's never had any complaints about the performance. For that matter I have an ancient laptop myself (T430 Thinkpad) similarly modernised and I wouldn't try and develop or game on it but 'inevitably have to modernise that thing' is very much not a given for a light workload.
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May 19, 2022 18:02
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My Haswell laptop is still kicking too, but that doesn't mean keeping it alive won't eventually become nonsensical.
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May 19, 2022 18:12
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https://twitter.com/VideoCardz/status/1527189685872754688 lmao
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May 19, 2022 18:26
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jesus loving christ Edit: I can already see that on a GamersNexus Dissapointment Tour T-Shirt
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May 19, 2022 18:30
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that's sick
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May 19, 2022 18:32
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I tried as hard as I could to make my new build rgb-free, but I couldn't escape it with the GPU.
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May 19, 2022 18:33
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Floppychop posted:I tried as hard as I could to make my new build rgb-free, but I couldn't escape it with the GPU.
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May 19, 2022 18:35
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I physically unplugged the LED strip on my GPU. That works pretty well
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May 19, 2022 18:49
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Floppychop posted:I tried as hard as I could to make my new build rgb-free, but I couldn't escape it with the GPU. Same. Fortunately I have a no glass case so it does not matter.
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