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sassassin posted:You spend most of the game fighting for the establishment. Some are nice, some aren't, but you're firmly on the side of Order and Stability rather than combating injustice if doing so might result in Chaos or "innocents getting hurt". There's a couple of optional sidequests post Stormblood that show it's not as bad as I feared in MSQ. Alphinaud stepped in during negotiations to help write the contracts and prevent Lolorito from exploiting the new salt industry coming out of Ala Mhigo, while back at Ul'dah, the leader of the poor and destitute actually starts getting people hired by Lolorito, for the purpose of finally getting themselves some political power and putting together Ul'dah's first worker's union. Also yeah, you're kinda missing a few things about Namano's story. The whole point is if she ran away like she tried, it would just end up with the Syndicate completely ruling Ul'dah and it would have just made things worse for everyone else, leaving her completely unable to help anyone.
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May 19, 2022 17:12
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PlasticAutomaton posted:There's a couple of optional sidequests post Stormblood that show it's not as bad as I feared in MSQ. Alphinaud stepped in during negotiations to help write the contracts and prevent Lolorito from exploiting the new salt industry coming out of Ala Mhigo, while back at Ul'dah, the leader of the poor and destitute actually starts getting people hired by Lolorito, for the purpose of finally getting themselves some political power and putting together Ul'dah's first worker's union. Also yeah, you're kinda missing a few things about Namano's story. The whole point is if she ran away like she tried, it would just end up with the Syndicate completely ruling Ul'dah and it would have just made things worse for everyone else, leaving her completely unable to help anyone. The most powerful and wealthy members of the Syndicate want Nanamo alive and sat on her little throne. It's why they stepped in to prevent her assassination by the member whose businesses were failing. The status quo is good for them. If her abdication was to their benefit Lolorito would have let her die. He's killed for less. I haven't played Endwalker so I don't know if they've pushed things any further forward with how Ul'dah is getting on without Raubahn and his Immortal Flames (at least half of which weren't corrupt or foreign spies). The Sultansworn had literally one true believer who didn't peace out.
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May 19, 2022 17:54
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Nanamo is entirely damned either way, because so long as the Syndicate and the wealth-disparity it represents exists, there can be no order other than oligarchy in Ul'dah. Nanamo is generally principled, but if her successor in the line isn't, it will be piss-easy for the Syndicate to turn that monarch into the puppet they want no matter how shrewd Nanamo is in the current era. Ul'dah is utterly hosed in the long run so long as the oligarchs have power, and there's no solution forthcoming that doesn't involve violence or the threat thereof. Either the monarchists and underclass rebel to strip the Syndicate of their wealth and power with guillotines, or the threat of such a rebellion's success is credible enough that the Syndicate abdicates and relinquishes the wealth "voluntarily."
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May 19, 2022 17:58
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Warmachine posted:Nanamo is entirely damned either way, because so long as the Syndicate and the wealth-disparity it represents exists, there can be no order other than oligarchy in Ul'dah. Nanamo is generally principled, but if her successor in the line isn't, it will be piss-easy for the Syndicate to turn that monarch into the puppet they want no matter how shrewd Nanamo is in the current era. The latter of which at least happened somewhat with Lolorito relinquishing wealth (specifically half his wealth, and all of Teledji Adeledji's wealth that he inherited) to the crown/city willingly. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 18:06 on May 19, 2022 |
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May 19, 2022 18:03
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gotta say one of FFXIV's best recurring bits is having a questgiver go on about how you need to gather these branches and light them on fire at the temple to summon a beast to slay, and then the NPC you're next to turns to you and is like, hey, since you'll be doing the beastslaying, I'll gather the branches and meet you there! It happens a couple times in the MSQ, but it's also a pretty common bit in side quests (just off the top of my head it appears in the Vath tribe story quests, the Labyrinthos side quest chain, and in the Kurenai side quests that I'm currently doing). It's incredibly cheap heat but it always makes me like the quests a little more.
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May 19, 2022 18:07
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Valentin posted:gotta say one of FFXIV's best recurring bits is having a questgiver go on about how you need to gather these branches and light them on fire at the temple to summon a beast to slay, and then the NPC you're next to turns to you and is like, hey, since you'll be doing the beastslaying, I'll gather the branches and meet you there! It happens a couple times in the MSQ, but it's also a pretty common bit in side quests (just off the top of my head it appears in the Vath tribe story quests, the Labyrinthos side quest chain, and in the Kurenai side quests that I'm currently doing). It's incredibly cheap heat but it always makes me like the quests a little more. I also observed that the number of sapient creatures that will willingly stand in your way after learning who you are drops off dramatically after Stormblood. There's no "Skyrim Bandit Syndrome" in FFXIV, which I think is a nice bit of worldbuilding. Once someone learns who the WoL is and learns of their absolutely mindboggling body count, they generally don't want to get in a stand-up fight with them. Only beings that read as "gods" or "demigods" have the power to try and (fail to) resist your will. Everyone else has to resort to increasingly elaborate hoop jumping to coerce you. (I'm looking at you, Endwalker Garlemald.) edit: What I'm saying is Zenos was right. The WoL is different.
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May 19, 2022 18:14
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Warmachine posted:I also observed that the number of sapient creatures that will willingly stand in your way after learning who you are drops off dramatically after Stormblood. There's no "Skyrim Bandit Syndrome" in FFXIV, which I think is a nice bit of worldbuilding. Once someone learns who the WoL is and learns of their absolutely mindboggling body count, they generally don't want to get in a stand-up fight with them. Only beings that read as "gods" or "demigods" have the power to try and (fail to) resist your will. Everyone else has to resort to increasingly elaborate hoop jumping to coerce you. (I'm looking at you, Endwalker Garlemald.) Yeah, there are a couple times when you confront an antagonist and, instead of the fight you'd expect, he says something like "yeah I guess you could kill us all if you had to so let's talk"
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May 19, 2022 18:46
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I really want the WoL to fall down a hole and lose their ridiculous power level Samus-style next expansion, constantly jerking the player off about how strong and cool they are and how easily they could easily destroy the biggest god you could think of is starting to get old
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May 19, 2022 18:50
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No Dignity posted:I really want the WoL to fall down a hole and lose their ridiculous power level Samus-style next expansion, constantly jerking the player off about how strong and cool they are and how easily they could easily destroy the biggest god you could think of is starting to get old My assumption is we're going to go somewhere very new next expansion. "Warrior of.. what? Light? Wtf are you talking about?"
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May 19, 2022 18:53
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No Dignity posted:I really want the WoL to fall down a hole and lose their ridiculous power level Samus-style next expansion, constantly jerking the player off about how strong and cool they are and how easily they could easily destroy the biggest god you could think of is starting to get old The solution is to keep sending you to places where you're a nobody
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May 19, 2022 18:57
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Mordiceius posted:My assumption is we're going to go somewhere very new next expansion. "Warrior of.. what? Light? Wtf are you talking about?" This was pretty much how Shadowbringers solved it. "Warrior of Light? Wooah buddy, you hit your head or something? Do you really wanna call yourself that?" Like, Ranjit was legit strong, but the only reason the average Eulmore grunt isn't pissing their plates is they don't know you've literally dumpstered more gods than you have fingers. Which I honestly kinda like, since it doesn't invalidate your power (we already had that arc in Heavensward) but also gives reason for people who have more cognitive capacity than soggy bread to try and swing at you and get into conflict. edit: Mind you, those people are still going to lose, and lose badly. But that's the life of being a mook in an MMO and not Ranjit or Zenos or such. Warmachine fucked around with this message at 19:00 on May 19, 2022 |
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May 19, 2022 18:58
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i want people to underestimate my power, it's like my favorite thing
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May 19, 2022 19:06
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Give me a plot line where our power is vastly overestimated. I want to see a quest where we pick up dung in the field or whatever and fail horribly. Let the WoL be the Alphinaud buying the katana is what I'm saying.
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May 19, 2022 19:23
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SettingSun posted:Give me a plot line where our power is vastly overestimated. I want to see a quest where we pick up dung in the field or whatever and fail horribly.  It doesn't need to be a fight-mans based thing. Throw the WoL out of their comfort zone. We're exceptional at exactly the thing we're reputable for: punching poo poo.Throw us into a peace conference or something where Alphinaud would have been the better choice and let us just gently caress up comically while everyone else cringes and agrees to not ask the WoL about geopolitics ever again. edit: Picking up poop won't work because we did that in Stormblood.
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May 19, 2022 19:33
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Warmachine posted:
Can't wait to throw out that Louisoix quote for no reason.
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May 19, 2022 19:49
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No Dignity posted:I really want the WoL to fall down a hole and lose their ridiculous power level Samus-style next expansion, constantly jerking the player off about how strong and cool they are and how easily they could easily destroy the biggest god you could think of is starting to get old In Keeper of the Lake we get all the God powerups we've earned sealed away but there's no meaningful followup to it where we struggle to do any amazing things. It would have given the end of ARR some weight if it had come after Steps of Faith and the Chrysalis, rather than before, and we'd gone into Heavensward as a really good and renowned Adventurer rather than a fully functional and anatomically correct Warrior of Light(tm). Stormblood's the expansion where we're just a bit rubbish and wander around rather than doing stuff until near the end.
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May 19, 2022 19:53
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Navigating a peace conference with dialogue options of misremembered political speeches from other characters would be some classic WoL poo poo. Give us a Gaius line and an Emet Selch one too and we're golden
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May 19, 2022 19:53
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No Dignity posted:Navigating a peace conference with dialogue options of misremembered political speeches from other characters would be some classic WoL poo poo. Give us a Gaius line and an Emet Selch one too and we're golden "THE SHIP ON OUR FLAG REPRESENTS A BOAT" "What are you talking about, we're in Meracydia"
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May 19, 2022 19:55
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sassassin posted:In Keeper of the Lake we get all the God powerups we've earned sealed away but there's no meaningful followup to it where we struggle to do any amazing things. It would have given the end of ARR some weight if it had come after Steps of Faith and the Chrysalis, rather than before, and we'd gone into Heavensward as a really good and renowned Adventurer rather than a fully functional and anatomically correct Warrior of Light(tm). The whole point of the Keeper of the Lake thing is for us to prove we’re actually the Warrior of the Light and not just lucky because we got the good Hydaelyn Blessing. Answer, we are in fact the badass we appear to be and the blessing of light was never the true source of our power. Like it is literally Midgardsormr going prove you’re a badass on your own, and then we prove we’re a badass on our own.
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May 19, 2022 20:04
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tbf mainly what that did was confuse everyone as to what was going on
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May 19, 2022 20:05
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DOST THOU HAVE EARNED THY POWER?, gently caress you old man I don't see you powerbombing Titan.
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May 19, 2022 20:12
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Blockhouse posted:tbf mainly what that did was confuse everyone as to what was going on AFAIK the English translation for Midgardsormr is way more aggressive there for literally no reason.
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May 19, 2022 20:12
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ARR localization in a nutshell.
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May 19, 2022 20:15
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Warmachine posted:edit: Picking up poop won't work because we did that in Stormblood. Look at this person who hasn't done the poop pickup sidequest that exists in virtually every second zone
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May 19, 2022 20:19
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Zomborgon posted:Look at this person who hasn't done the poop pickup sidequest that exists in virtually every second zone I wonder how many people would do them all if you stuck a <poop collector> title behind them and also how many people would wear the title proudly.
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May 19, 2022 20:33
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<Master of Manure>
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May 19, 2022 20:37
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Poop Retrieval is practically the WoL's hobby at this point. Power levels are awfully floaty anyway. Sure we've killed lots of gods, but only because we have a fairly rare combination of Immune to Tempering, Good at Stabs, and Compulsive Helperton / But Thou Must. The XIV world has several other people who are consistently depicted as being on about the same level as the WoL when it comes to fighting and some of them aren't even all that famous. And most of those gods are just strong monsters with some dirty tricks. Now that I say that I kinda want for there to be a rumble between WoL, Raubahn, Gaius, and Estinien just to have a huge shitkicker fight for funsies. Could even have Lyon crash the party.
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May 19, 2022 20:37
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Kitfox88 posted:<Master of Manure> <Feces Finder>
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May 19, 2022 20:38
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Thundarr posted:Poop Retrieval is practically the WoL's hobby at this point. If Estinien could fight Primals before Endwalker he’d have pretty much been doing our job before us outside of the whole blood oath vengeance against Nidhogg thing. He’s explicitly enough of a shitkicking badass that he’s still a better dragoon than the player is even if you max level the job. It’s really rare that a job we can do has someone canonically better than us at it for the entire story, Estinien is.
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May 19, 2022 20:40
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Warmachine posted:
"All we need to do to get this macguffin is for you to beat their champion in a drinking contest."
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May 19, 2022 20:44
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Lord_Magmar posted:If Estinien could fight Primals before Endwalker he’d have pretty much been doing our job before us outside of the whole blood oath vengeance against Nidhogg thing. He’s explicitly enough of a shitkicking badass that he’s still a better dragoon than the player is even if you max level the job. Don't we kick his rear end in the 30-50 dragoon fights?
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May 19, 2022 20:53
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Yeah. And by the end of his tenure as Nidhogg's uber, he's considerably stronger than the WoL. Single handedly destroys the gun emplacement in Stormblood, solos an Ultima Weapon experiment / prototype, and solos Alzadaal's Legacy the second time after they replenish the defenses.
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May 19, 2022 20:56
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sassassin posted:Don't we kick his rear end in the 30-50 dragoon fights? No, we kinda kick his rear end in the 50 fight whilst he actively wars with Nidhogg’s shade for control of his body, if I remember correctly. And most of that story is trying to avoid us fighting him because if we did he would kick our rear end until we actually get to level 50.
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May 19, 2022 20:58
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Nidhogg's eyes clearly just give unsync solo functions. Which canonically the WoL is doing in like half the story fights we have to party up for anyway.
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May 19, 2022 20:59
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Lord_Magmar posted:No, we kinda kick his rear end in the 50 fight whilst he actively wars with Nidhogg’s shade for control of his body, if I remember correctly. It isn’t Nidhogg’s shade then - it’s Nidhogg controlling him just by having his eye.
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May 19, 2022 21:04
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Consummate Professional posted:<Feces Finder> <The Loathsome Dung Discoverer>
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May 19, 2022 22:12
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<Lord/Lady of the Dung Flies>
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May 19, 2022 22:30
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<The Number Two>
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May 19, 2022 22:39
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<Poopoto Picker> <Dungeoneer>
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May 19, 2022 22:51
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sassassin posted:In Keeper of the Lake we get all the God powerups we've earned sealed away but there's no meaningful followup to it where we struggle to do any amazing things. It would have given the end of ARR some weight if it had come after Steps of Faith and the Chrysalis, rather than before, and we'd gone into Heavensward as a really good and renowned Adventurer rather than a fully functional and anatomically correct Warrior of Light(tm). Yeah, I mean the Keeper of the Lake is just sealing the Blessing of Light which actually isn’t some divine power up, it was just Venat casting a warding spell to save us from aetheric corruption. Everything else is all us.
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May 19, 2022 22:57
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