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IOwnCalculus posted:Eaton BR type breakers are cross listed for Challenger Type C. Apparently it would also be wise to replace every breaker in the panel with a modern Eaton as the Challengers can be problematic. Now that's cool to know about the Eaton surge protector. I've already left Dallas, but I'll grab one for next time I head up. There's room for one more duplex breaker in the panel as it sits, though I could make room for 2 if I moved one of the doubles to the other side (for some reason one side is all 15s, the other side all 20s? OCD electrician?). The panel definitely identifies Type C as being compatible on the door. Never knew Challenger breakers were considered bad, but did wonder why I haven't seen them much in so long - didn't realize they were discontinued in 1994. They only have 100 amp service, the panel is rated for a max of 125 amp service anyway - with electric cars all but guaranteed at some point, I may just try to talk them into replacing it and upgrading to a 200 amp service. The breakers all "feel" fine (the 2 pole ones are surprisingly hard to throw, but they're all equally difficult), but I know from personal experience with Zinsco that just because it feels fine doesn't mean it'll trip. I do know their breakers were capable of tripping at one point (the 2 pole 50 amp AC breaker used to trip occasionally with the original AC unit), but that was 20 years ago. randomidiot fucked around with this message at 00:58 on May 20, 2022 |
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May 20, 2022 00:55
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I have zero experience with Challenger breakers but all the hits I found on Google pointed at the bankruptcy as being largely the result of poor breakers, though apparently the issue is limited to just the breakers and the main panel itself is serviceable. I threw a BRNSURGE in my Eaton panel, it really is an easy install.
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May 20, 2022 01:31
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tater_salad posted:at night does this light up your room? Haven't grabbed a fluorescent bulb to check.
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May 20, 2022 03:55
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IOwnCalculus posted:I have zero experience with Challenger breakers but all the hits I found on Google pointed at the bankruptcy as being largely the result of poor breakers, though apparently the issue is limited to just the breakers and the main panel itself is serviceable. I can already guarantee they won't drop the money on new breakers until they need to upgrade service. "it's been fine for 27 years!1  " Especially when I'd need to get the meter pulled to touch the main breaker, at which point the city shows up and wants to know about every bit of unpermitted work ever done to the house (which is likely all of it since 2000, I'm pretty sure the HVAC company didn't even pull one even tho they said they did.. No inspection happened after, they started work the day after quoting it). They'll need to upgrade service if they ever go to an induction cooktop, or add a car charger, or hell add any 240V stuff. They had to pull heavier wire/add a beefier breaker when they went to a double wall oven years ago (truth be told they probably only swapped the breaker, that oven has always had a hearty appetite for heating elements, to the point one of them takes an hour to heat up now). They did free up some capacity with the new ac, sort of (inside breaker is still 50 amp, but there's a 40 amp in the new outside disconnect). At least all the smoke detectors are brand new now! randomidiot fucked around with this message at 17:43 on May 21, 2022 |
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May 21, 2022 17:40
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STR posted:At least all the smoke detectors are brand new now! This reminds me… all the detectors at my parents’ place (built 2004) are very yellowed right now. I should just buy a Costco pack and replace them all when I visit, even though they tell me not to bother… pretty sure they are all expired.
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May 21, 2022 18:07
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movax posted:This reminds me… all the detectors at my parents’ place (built 2004) are very yellowed right now. I should just buy a Costco pack and replace them all when I visit, even though they tell me not to bother… pretty sure they are all expired. Get the lifetime battery ones. Pitch it as so cool and on sale and no more chirping.
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May 21, 2022 18:14
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This is more OSHA than Wiring but remember to wear hearing protection when you test the new smoke alarms. Tinnitus is forever!
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May 21, 2022 18:31
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America posted:This is more OSHA than Wiring but remember to wear hearing protection when you test the new smoke alarms. Tinnitus is forever! I take them down and cover the speaker with my hand or gut.
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May 21, 2022 18:52
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H110Hawk posted:Get the lifetime battery ones. Pitch it as so cool and on sale and no more chirping. I thought it was less the battery life and more that modern ones shut themselves off after X years because the detection mechanism expires. None of them are chirping, but the plastic is so yellow + they are 16 years old at minimum, so at this point I don’t actually know if any work.
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May 21, 2022 20:21
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movax posted:I thought it was less the battery life and more that modern ones shut themselves off after X years because the detection mechanism expires. None of them are chirping, but the plastic is so yellow + they are 16 years old at minimum, so at this point I don’t actually know if any work. The 9v ones are chirping at some point, now if they start chirping it's time to replace the whole unit. Forces the issue.
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May 21, 2022 20:22
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The lifetime battery ones will definitely chirp at you when they're running low, it's just that they don't have a battery compartment; you have to replace the entire unit. Which you need to do with the ones that have battery compartments anyway. This way you just don't get tricked into thinking your detectors are still good when they can't actually detect anything.
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May 21, 2022 20:23
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movax posted:This reminds me… all the detectors at my parents’ place (built 2004) are very yellowed right now. I should just buy a Costco pack and replace them all when I visit, even though they tell me not to bother… pretty sure they are all expired. Yellowed, you say?  vs  (these are essentially identical smoke alarms; BRK/First Alert published this model # as one that is a direct replacement for the ones I pulled down, all you have to do is swap the bracket) And yeah, 2004? Beyond expired. They have a 10 year life from when they're manufactured. The ones at your parents place likely have a date on the back; the ones at my parents house did not. In their case, the one in the den still went apeshit anytime mom was roasting green chiles (you do that over an open flame if you're lucky enough to have a gas range/cooktop), but that produces a good bit of smoke. If the existing ones are BRK/First Alert, Lowe's has a 6 pack of AC w/9V backup for <$80. Don't need to use the new pigtails if you're going for the same brand, just plug them right in, yank the protective strip off the battery, close the battery door, press the test button (do this with the breaker off so (a) you don't get tickled and (b) to make sure they beep from battery power). I made sure to do it w/breaker off to verify that the batteries were good (and it's just a single BEEEEEEEP on them, doesn't trigger others). My issue with the 10 year ones is a lot of them are battery only, with no interconnect. If the house was wired with interconnected smoke alarms (and something built in 2004 certainly would have been), you need some kind of interconnect - code is allowing wireless interconnect in some instances (Nest Protect comes to mind), but you're spending big money at that point. That way, if one sounds, they all go apeshit. You need to get the ones that are specifically "10 year lithium battery with hardwire" for a 2004 house. They're... spendy, even in a contractor pack When those run $30/each, and you can get a 6 pack of the modern version of what they probably already have for $80ish.... randomidiot fucked around with this message at 05:42 on May 22, 2022 |
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May 22, 2022 05:36
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STR posted:Yellowed, you say? Thanks for the extra info! Making this more fun, they're in MI, so I'll have no idea what was actually installed until I get there and can see if they were hardwired or battery based. When I was living at home, in the rare occasions they went off from kitchen, I don't remember one-go, all-go, but my memory is fuzzy.
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May 22, 2022 06:04
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If the house was built in the US in 2004, they should be hardwired, linked, with a battery backup; 1 in each bedroom, 1 in each hallway, 1 in a common area was common when my parents house was built. Pretty sure this was code nationwide by the mid 90s, unless their house was in BFE when built. The next locality over from me requires one in the garage on houses/duplexes too, but only on rentals I think (WHY?! I used to set that fucker off every time I started my car.... or any car near the garage if the door was open, roommate's car also set it off every time). I get having a heat detector in a garage, but not a smoke detector. It's possible the one most likely to be set off by the kitchen had the link wire disconnected? I discovered maintenance at my current apartment cut the link wires at some point (there's only 2 in my 1 bedroom apartment, built in the late 90s), but they're the exact same ones I installed in my parents house. No idea why they did that - the wires are there, just cut (they were, anyway... I've reconnected them since we sleep with the bedroom door closed). I'm in one of only a handful of apartments in the property not tied into the property fire alarm too (my unit is essentially a small house on top of 3 detached single car garages, instead of being connected to the rest of the building.. weird setup). If they look anything like either one of the ones I showed, they're First Alert/BRK. Otherwise they're probably Kidde. Going the same brand makes swapping them a lot easier; might even be able to reuse the old bracket with Kidde (otherwise it's usually just 2 screws that don't even need to come all the way out). Sometimes there might be tamper pins to keep you from removing them, so if they don't turn easily, look for 1-2 plastic pins around the edge of the base. Should be able to pop them out with a small screwdriver or pick and a little wiggleage. randomidiot fucked around with this message at 07:14 on May 22, 2022 |
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May 22, 2022 07:07
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Our house has ADT smoke and carbon monoxide alarms that are wired into the security system that we don't pay for or use. They "test" fine, but what are the chances they actually work? House was built in 67 so I doubt there's any direct wiring for them.
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May 22, 2022 15:16
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Is there such a thing as a half-width electrical box that a light switch can be installed in? I'm looking for skinny horizontally, not shallow depth. I can accept if there isn't but the saved space would be nice.
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May 22, 2022 16:49
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Vim Fuego posted:Is there such a thing as a half-width electrical box that a light switch can be installed in? I'm looking for skinny horizontally, not shallow depth. I can accept if there isn't but the saved space would be nice. As far as I know, there's no such thing as a narrow electrical box in the US. What're you trying to do? There may be another way.
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May 22, 2022 17:18
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TacoHavoc posted:As far as I know, there's no such thing as a narrow electrical box in the US. What're you trying to do? There may be another way. You can definitely get some weird sized faceplates from Kyle Switch Plates, but for the actual box, I dunno.
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May 22, 2022 18:35
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TacoHavoc posted:As far as I know, there's no such thing as a narrow electrical box in the US. What're you trying to do? There may be another way. Just installing a box in some framing that I'm putting together. I'll use a normal sized one. I want it to be symmetrical. The width of thr electrical box means taking up more space on both sides which is why I was wondering about a smaller one. Vim Fuego fucked around with this message at 19:52 on May 22, 2022 |
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May 22, 2022 19:28
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A quick google search for 1/2 gang box looked like it pulled up some options for particular use cases, most of them surface mount. whether or not any of them would work I guess depends on the switch you're going to put in it and the actual space it needs to fit in
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May 22, 2022 23:17
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Vim Fuego posted:Is there such a thing as a half-width electrical box that a light switch can be installed in? I'm looking for skinny horizontally, not shallow depth. I can accept if there isn't but the saved space would be nice. Handy box is narrow. There are are also "doorframe" boxes: designed to put a light switch into 1.5” wide space.
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May 23, 2022 01:50
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:Handy box is narrow. There are are also "doorframe" boxes: designed to put a light switch into 1.5” wide space. This handy box looks good, but I'm not sure if it's surface mount only or if in wall installation is ok https://www.homedepot.com/p/1-Gang-13-cu-in-Steel-Handy-Box-58361T12-18R/202590839 I couldn't find any doorframe boxes. I found some doorjamb kits, but they all come with a switch and seem to be intended for installation inside the doorjamb itself to turn on when the door opens. Vim Fuego fucked around with this message at 02:06 on May 23, 2022 |
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May 23, 2022 02:00
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GEMorris posted:Our house has ADT smoke and carbon monoxide alarms that are wired into the security system that we don't pay for or use. They "test" fine, but what are the chances they actually work? Most alarm sensors, like the Honeywell 5800 ones ADT uses here are intended for protection of property, not protection of life. You should have regular smoke detectors in addition, according to the documents which came with my alarm.
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May 23, 2022 05:34
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GEMorris posted:Our house has ADT smoke and carbon monoxide alarms that are wired into the security system that we don't pay for or use. They "test" fine, but what are the chances they actually work? Do you guys have a code for the alarm? If not, if they get set off, you're not going to be able to shut off the siren without powering the entire system down. And if it's somehow connected to monitoring (it may have a cellular communicator if installed in the past 10-15 years), even if not paid for, they may send fire if they get a fire signal from the system. Since you're not using the system, I would put up battery powered smoke/CO detectors and power the system down - there's a metal enclosure somewhere (usually a utility closet, laundry room, or bedroom closet, sometimes garage...), with a big power brick. There's also a battery inside the can. Unplug the brick, remove a wire from the battery. Should be completely dead after that, verify by checking keypads for signs of life. This will also disable all of the ADT smoke detectors, so don't do this until something else is up.
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May 23, 2022 12:43
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Thanks for the responses, I've installed Kidde combination smoke and co detectors throughout the house, they are the type that are wirelessly interlinked. The first week we had the house (hadn't even moved in, I was just there doing some demo) I did a test of the CO detector and thought I had disabled it, but didn't, sure as poo poo, fire department showed up about 5 minutes later.
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May 25, 2022 00:44
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GEMorris posted:Thanks for the responses, I've installed Kidde combination smoke and co detectors throughout the house, they are the type that are wirelessly interlinked. The first week we had the house (hadn't even moved in, I was just there doing some demo) I did a test of the CO detector and thought I had disabled it, but didn't, sure as poo poo, fire department showed up about 5 minutes later. I would rather burn to death than risk the fire dept being automatically dispatched to my home and then dying of embarrassment anyways.
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May 25, 2022 00:46
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GEMorris posted:Thanks for the responses, I've installed Kidde combination smoke and co detectors throughout the house, they are the type that are wirelessly interlinked. The first week we had the house (hadn't even moved in, I was just there doing some demo) I did a test of the CO detector and thought I had disabled it, but didn't, sure as poo poo, fire department showed up about 5 minutes later. 5 minutes is an amazing response time. 
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May 25, 2022 01:22
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Is this the correct thread for batteries / inverters / on a house-scale? This would be solar grid-tie with house-UPS functions ideally.
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May 26, 2022 05:18
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insta posted:Is this the correct thread for batteries / inverters / on a house-scale? This would be solar grid-tie with house-UPS functions ideally. There was a home solar thread but it died. Ask away. I've been doing some research in this topic recently.
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May 26, 2022 12:24
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Well, that's kinda it. I understand that grid-tie will preferentially pull from batteries to supply your house, but they require the mains power to be active. When mains drops, a grid-tie inverter will shut off for safety. I also understand the reasons why a grid-tie must disconnect itself. Are there mechanisms to incorporate a transfer switch to disconnect mains and allow the inverter to solely supply the house during outages? I am a lot more comfortable on the low-voltage side. 
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May 26, 2022 17:01
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Yes, there are definitely systems with inverters that are off-grid and have a grid-disconnect incorporated. I think the usual setup is to have a sub-panel that powers the essentials you want to be able to run in an off-grid situation and have the transfer switch disconnect from the main panel in the event of a blackout.
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May 26, 2022 18:38
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That's my plan, but in this case I'd like the "panel I care about" to be the main one, with the transfer switch being between the meter and inlet breakers. Are there inverters that can self-source if they are isolated, and grid-tie if the grid's there?
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May 26, 2022 20:59
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insta posted:That's my plan, but in this case I'd like the "panel I care about" to be the main one, with the transfer switch being between the meter and inlet breakers. Are there inverters that can self-source if they are isolated, and grid-tie if the grid's there? I believe there are automatic transfer switches but I haven't sourced it myself.
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May 26, 2022 21:57
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aw poo poo are we talking solar powered energy storage systems??? there are several on the market, each with their benefits and host of problems. absolutely they can do the things you're asking, back up circuits with automatic transfer with almost no interruption and continue to charge from solar panels (or in Generac's case, a propane or natural gas powered DC generator), but there are output limits. "whole home backup" will usually involve a way to shed bigger loads like air conditioners and ranges. generac is very good on the electrical end, you get the transfer switch and load management equipment they've been developing for decades but their solar end is problematic. they bought their clean energy system by buying a smaller company, pika energy, and had to come up with some wonky solutions to get to market and be compliant with new rapid shutdown code. they are working on a microinverter-based system (bought another company) so feel free to be a guinea pig for that if you're down for heartbreak. at some point (soon?) these can integrate with a lot of generac's standby generators enphase's system is pretty cumbersome, its specs do not compare, and basic functions of a microgrid like load shedding are not integrated solutions. you're in for a lot of planning and troubleshooting if your use case falls outside a short list. for an example of this system's quirks, the batteries and smart switch...communicate...with...bluetooth. there is no hardwire option. another thing you could do with enphase equipment is power circuits just with your solar (a small fraction of its output, but still) without batteries, but that's madness. you'd probably want at least one battery just so your microgrid doesn't start and stop with the weather. bonus! these systems can integrate with a select number of standby generators sunpower has an integrated system i have absolutely no experience with, but it boasts nice specs. tesla you have to be Certified out the rear end and the specs i see don't really compete. unless i was looking at older models or whatever. seems to get the job done, these things do numbers. if only there was some way to take enphase's great solar system....and make it work with generac's great battery system...hm!
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May 26, 2022 22:37
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I was also just searching for a solar power thread. I am at the point of 'how do I get energy from a solar panel outside to something I could plug a computer into.'
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May 27, 2022 01:39
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Lysandus posted:I was also just searching for a solar power thread. I am at the point of 'how do I get energy from a solar panel outside to something I could plug a computer into.' Like off grid? Simplest is probably a "solar generator" which is an all in one thing that has a battery, a solar charge controller, usually a 12 volt DC car charger and some barrel plug sockets, plus an inverter to do AC power. Most can be wall charged or charged from a car alternator as well. The right choice depends on your budget and how portable and small you want the solar panels.
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May 27, 2022 02:16
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I can't speak to SunPower's battery system but generally I've had good experiences with the company. I had a warranty replacement on the data collection and reporting box that was painless and the app is totally passable. I'm almost 7 years in and it has otherwise been trouble free, and the panel output hasn't noticeably changed.
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May 27, 2022 04:40
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insta posted:Well, that's kinda it. OK. So here's the whole thing: it's complicated. If you want to get power from The Grid, you must have some kind of grid-tie transfer switch. This must be able to be shut of remotely, so that if your local grid goes down, you're not backpowering the local transformers and killing lineworkers trying to get trees off the power lines. Anything that happens on the "customer" side of such a switch is 100% up to you. If you want to get federal, state, and/or local tax credits for your install, then everything from your newly-installed net-metering meter base to your hydroponics garden probably needs to have been inspected. If y'all ask nicely, I'll draw up an interconnect diagram for a house and where all of the various authorities jurisdictions and/or levels of cognizance (responsibility) end. But if you want to have a 100% off-grid house that happens to connect to the grid when the grid is up? That's doable. If you want to have a 100% grid house that has some panels on the roof to offset that cost? Doable. Anywhere in between? Doable, but more complicated, because those two extremes are the endpoints of control between your local power authority and you. How much control or authority you want to have when "the power" goes out is the complication. Grid-tied means that, at some point, your house is connected to the local power grid. Where in your house's distribution system that tie is depends on what you want to do. If you want a glorified UPS for your house, then that's the situation you described with "grid tie will preferentially pull from batteries." You're charging batteries when [PoCo] says it's cheap to do so, and discharging batteries when [PoCo] says it's expensive. There are single-box automatic transfer switches (ATS) with battery monitors (BMS) integrated that will do this for you. This box is directly connected (and possibly integrated) with the meter base your power company gives you. The power company can cut you off from power when they want to; they distribute and regulate all the electricity in your house, except that some of it is in batteries on your premises that could also harm their workers, so they get to shut that off, too. If you want a house that could be nominally off-grid, then your house is getting power from local generation when that's available, from batteries charged from local surplus when not, and from the grid at other times. There are single-box ATS with maximum-power-point tracking photovoltaic inverters (MPPT PV inverter) with integrated BMS that can do this, as well. This box is connected downstream of the meterbase from your power company. Because, fundamentally, your house probably doesn't need the local grid to survive; you're a self-sufficent generator and will let the power company cut you off from their grid when they feel that your locally-generated electricity could harm their workers. As of a few years ago, the easiest solution was a net-metering base from the PoCo that fed into a PoCo-controlled ATS. Your solar panels and batteries and (possibly) generator fed into that ATS. If the PoCo told the ATS to shut the grid off, it was off until further notice. If the ATS acted funny and didn't want to send your solar panels' power to your house, then that's just a thing that happened; you were as without power as your neighbors. If you paid more money for your inverter/BMS/MPPT, then it would have the ability to talk to this ATS and not try to energize it. The inverter mess just sees the ATS as another "power input" with some priority in regards to all the other inputs it has (solar power, generator, batteries, microhydro, local-scale wind, a million hamsters in wheels, etc.). This was the most expensive, as well, because there was a LOT of logic involved in whether or not "the grid" was currently a reliable source of power, and whether or not "the grid" was a reliable CONSUMER of power, if possible. Modern times? WHO KNOWS. Chip shortages. Everything is crazy-town. The panels are cheap, the inverters are expensive. Or the panels are unimportable and the inverters cost nothing, but you can't find a transfer switch because there's no copper in stock anywhere. So figure out a design for the system you want, then start calling around to local contractors and see if such a thing is even possible. For me, I want 3-phase 480/277 (and maybe 240 delta with high leg)V in my garage because I'm some kind of pervert. This means I get a meter base, an ATS, and then the authority having jurisdiction just waves their hands at the install and says "everything over here is fine" and I put in my own 3-phase inverter on the back end of whatever AC to DC system is hooked up to The Grid and the AHJ agrees that the DC to AC part that's connected to The Grid is up to local code.
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May 28, 2022 07:30
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I have a smaller than I’d like Enphase system (on install day, they discovered the roof was measured wider than it was, RIP 3 panels for fire setback) to offset my consumption. It was not a smart financial decision as it’s something like 20+ years to break even, but I work in clean technology, am a nerd and it felt like a tiny way to help offset my impact (even though Seattle is something like 95%+ hydro, IIRC). I have iq7s; when the power dies, my panels become useless. The iq7s (micro inverters) as I understand it detect loss of grid (frequency shift or loss of what appears to be an infinite sink) and shut themselves off, after what I would imagine is a short period of oscillation as I have no batteries. The new iq8s can apparently run without a grid tie, or batteries, but if a cloud shows up, your power collapses more or less immediately. I think it really just all comes to anti-islanding — if the grid is down / a segment of lines is desired to be dead, the PoCo assumes a model where since they control the only sources of power, and the switchgear along the way, they can properly de-energize it. Any yahoos without transfer switches who have energized their homes / buildings may potentially work against that goal, hence the transfer switch requirement. I don’t know how long I’m going to stay in my current place, but given the small size of solar, I don’t think I want to invest in batteries, or do the work of installing a transfer switch… power outages are rare. I’d rather build a ~24 V backup system that can run low power DC loads… e.g., charging radios and phones.
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May 28, 2022 18:07
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At that point you might as well just buy one of the big "solar generators" and just charge from house power whenever your panels are producing excess, someone after noon probably.
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May 28, 2022 18:52
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