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Yeah Maryanne made an amazing play but it's also the first one very late in. Now if she gets everyone to vote her, she plays the idol, and chooses her F4, that's proper contention.
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May 20, 2022 17:02
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Maryanne's case is also boosted by a pretty weak final five in terms of game resume Jonathan's case is entirely in his immunity wins Mike's case is entirely in his likeability (which is a rough case when sitting next to Maryanne) Romeo is one of the GOAT goats Lindsay is really the only one who can challenge her.
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May 20, 2022 17:07
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IcePhoenix posted:Maryanne's case is also boosted by a pretty weak final five in terms of game resume I don't understand the case for Jonathan's immunity wins, the dude has barely won any individual challenges, he was beaten by Tori twice, Heather has won a few times, even Omar in this last one. The dude is Aquaman, I'll give you that. If the challenge involves water, he will win it, but everything else really seems impossible for him. He's only ever won immunity when there were two winners, granted the water balance one he won first place, and he's never won an individual reward challenge and his strategy has been laughable (and noticed by everyone). Jonathan is a goat, IMO, bring his bulky-rear end to the end alongside Romeo. Lindsay's excuse to not give Omar the talisman idol is flimsy, if it's no longer "active" then it's out of the game, or it's getting replaced whether it's used or not. That being said, she may have just told that to Omar because she didn't want to give it to anyone else for F6, she was only saving it for herself and made it look like she was totally shocked when Omar was voted out. Her fixation on Jonathan is weird, but she was lucky Omar was voted out. Maybe the post interviews show that Omar couldn't have won, but his game seemed a lot better than hers and a Jury can often come around at the end for best game play. I'll give her a break on not sharing, especially if next ep she comes around and is like "oh yeah, I wanted Jonathan, but Omar had to go anyways so..." I knew Omar was going to be knocked out after Drea blasted his game, but it wasn't enough to catch STONE COLD 64 
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May 20, 2022 17:33
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Antiquated Pants posted:I don't understand the case for Jonathan's immunity wins, the dude has barely won any individual challenges, he was beaten by Tori twice, Heather has won a few times, even Omar in this last one. The dude is Aquaman, I'll give you that. If the challenge involves water, he will win it, but everything else really seems impossible for him. He's only ever won immunity when there were two winners, granted the water balance one he won first place, and he's never won an individual reward challenge and his strategy has been laughable (and noticed by everyone). Jonathan is a goat, IMO, bring his bulky-rear end to the end alongside Romeo. He won last week in the Jesus Challenge against Lindsay But otherwise I agree with you! People always prop up the challenge beast as a threat but that only matters when they have a game outside it and he does not. I've been saying for weeks that he's a super valuable asset because he can potentially keep immunity off of your actual target.
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May 20, 2022 17:34
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I think resumes are really overrated by the audience when it comes to determining the winner. I think it comes down to who can best present a story of their game that resonates with the jury. Sometimes you have juries that want big moves and flashy gameplay, but I think more often it’s who can present themselves as an active participant who built connections with the jury members that allow them to incorporate their loss in their own personal story.
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May 20, 2022 17:37
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IcePhoenix posted:
I agree as well. Who truly used their prowess in challenges as a serious bolster to to their win chances in final tribal? The big thing about winning challenge beasts is that they were threats to win already and the challenge strength means they couldn’t be eliminated when they needed to for the losing players. Unless the editors have been hiding Jonathan’s connections with the jury, I find it really hard to believe he can win and I think the other players would recognize that. Lindsay makes a little sense if she thinks the others would gun for her and so she needs the best chance possible to win immunity.
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May 20, 2022 17:47
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One of the most compelling and unique things about Survivor as a show is that there is no best strategy to win that would work in every season. It depends entirely on the composition of the jury and who they want to give a million dollars to. Currently the only person I genuinely can't imagine a jury wanting to give a million dollars to is Romeo but I would be pretty surprised by a Jonathan win as well mostly because we've been shown him rubbing a lot of people the wrong way
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May 20, 2022 18:07
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A couple of weeks ago when Jonathan had kind of blown his game up and everyone was calling him dead I thought if he can go on a run he has a chance. Now I don't really see him winning because it seems like there's been no real drive to get him out so he's had no real threat to fight back and against and there's no narrative. Oddly it might be because his game is a little better than anyone wants to give credit. He had a bunch of relationships and at least the Mike one still seems to be intact and helping him but so might be Maryanne. I don't know. But he hasn't had that "everyone wanted to get me out and I beasted my way to the end" narrative. He could still go on a run to get to F3 or make fire and maybe he's sitting next to Maryanne and people just don't think one move is enough or Lindsey and people think she played in his shadow or something. I dunno. I don't think I see 0% chance of him winning. I think his flaws have kind of become cartoonishly focused on by fans or like RHAP since he was such a safe (and deserving) target. But he still spent much of the season seemingly playing a good social game and at least in theory knowing the right thing to say until he went and said the wrong thing. So I dunno. Maybe that Jonathan shows up at tribal? Romeo is the only player I absolutely can't see winning. Everyone else feels like a toss up to what that jury feels and how they tell their stories.
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May 20, 2022 18:31
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If I was on a survivor jury I’d always vote for the goat. By bringing a goat to the final 3 you have shown that you don’t deserve to win. Go Romeo.
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May 20, 2022 18:54
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Propaganda Machine posted:I think this might be a new meta, and you can even blame Chris from Edge of Extinction for starting it. But it's becoming clear that if you play strong, you get a target and you get taken out. If you do nothing you get zero votes at the end. Therefore, you should do something cool when it's too late to spend any game time getting paranoid or plotting against you, at least over whoever else has been presenting a threat for longer. I mean this is not uncommon, and definitely varies season to season. Natalie Anderson (who in terms of timing, Maryanne has played quite a bit like!) waits for her Jon blindside until final 6, idols out Baylor at 5, and there's still a large enough threat to keep her alive at 4. Up until that point, the power players were underestimating her, and just using her to casually pagong the other alliance. Maryanne has the extra vote blindside at 6, she has an unknown idol at 5, and firemaking can keep her alive even through a bad vote. Some winners can just bulldoze their way through the end, some need immunity, etc. The variance is super interesting and watching the different roads people take is always fun, imo.
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May 20, 2022 19:13
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nexous posted:If I was on a survivor jury I’d always vote for the goat. By bringing a goat to the final 3 you have shown that you don’t deserve to win. And the goat deserves to win because?
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May 20, 2022 19:19
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Yeah, I feel like the game has always had people who feel like they can puppet master the whole thing and end up making a couple of big moves and then exposing themselves and being taken out. The big difference now I think is that there's not 1 or 2 people trying to do that there's like 5 or 6. So we have this thing we see where they sometimes play King of the Mountain and as soon as one big "winner's edit" type player gets taken down they're replaced by a new one who gets taken down. So then the winner ends up having to be someone who made their moves late or just played low key the whole game. Just because all the "puppet masters" got themselves got. I don't know that I feel the Maryanne/Natalie comparison at all. As I recall it Natalie was working with Jeremy and plugged in. She simply had to lay low for a bit after Jeremy was taken out and then make some good moves at the end. But Maryann's really been out of the game until this week. I don't think anyone's gonna buy that she was playing a subtle game they didn't see. Still there might not be anyone who feels like they played a good, proactive game much longer. And Maryanne has really had a nice narrative going from annoying and frazzled to in control and respected. I don't know that that makes her a clear winner but its the right direction for her story and she's shown eloquence in Tribal to tell it.
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May 20, 2022 19:24
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Sighence posted:And the goat deserves to win because? They got to the end. By choosing to bring a goat you lose at outplay. They outlasted. And they out witted all the masterminds by not getting the boot for being a mastermind. Valid strategy.
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May 20, 2022 19:29
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At least we're getting a preview of Romeo's speech.
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May 20, 2022 19:33
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Romeo going to win by coaching the other 2.
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May 20, 2022 19:46
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nexous posted:They got to the end. By choosing to bring a goat you lose at outplay. They outlasted. And they out witted all the masterminds by not getting the boot for being a mastermind. Yeah arguably but in a very beep boop way Extremely unsatisfying
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May 20, 2022 20:11
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The Bloop posted:Yeah arguably but in a very beep boop way You weren’t satisfied by Fabio’s win? Now I’ve heard everything.
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May 20, 2022 20:13
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IcePhoenix posted:Maryanne's case is also boosted by a pretty weak final five in terms of game resume Not even sure if Lindsay can challenge Maryanne. They both basically played the same game all the way. But Maryanne has the race discussion tribal & then just made the big move to blow up Omer / Lindsay's game.
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May 20, 2022 20:17
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nexous posted:You weren’t satisfied by Fabio’s win? Fabio was satisfying because the "masterminds" realized that if he was still in the game nobody would vote for their weasel asses over him but then he won the last three immunities in a row. He wasn't brought to the end as a goat at all. Or at least that's how I remember it. Probably getting something wrong, but I do know he was being targeted and just kept winning immunity. IcePhoenix fucked around with this message at 20:26 on May 20, 2022 |
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May 20, 2022 20:21
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IcePhoenix posted:Fabio was satisfying because the "masterminds" realized that if he was still in the game nobody would vote for their weasel asses over him but then he won the last three immunities in a row. He wasn't brought to the end as a goat at all. Or at least that's how I remember it. Probably getting something wrong, but I do know he was being targeted and just kept winning immunity. Ah yeah dang you’re right. I was just trying to remember a goat.
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May 20, 2022 20:32
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Apparently one of the reasons Purple Kelly voted for him was because he would lend her his jacket to keep her warm 
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May 20, 2022 20:41
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nexous posted:Ah yeah dang you’re right. I was just trying to remember a goat. I mean a lot of people would probably say Natalie from Samoa is the best example of taking a goat to the end and losing to them
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May 20, 2022 20:45
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I mean there's something to be said for just laying low and just being nice to people, especially when you have Russell freakin' Hantz wanting to take you to the end. It may not be the most "dominant" kind of win or whatever but it can work really well in the right situation.
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May 20, 2022 22:06
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nexous posted:They got to the end. By choosing to bring a goat you lose at outplay. They outlasted. And they out witted all the masterminds by not getting the boot for being a mastermind. Wtf how did a goat outlast the other people on the final who also lasted that long? And how did they outwit the other people who also did not get voted out?
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May 20, 2022 22:34
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blue squares posted:Wtf how did a goat outlast the other people on the final who also lasted that long? And how did they outwit the other people who also did not get voted out? They outlasted the same. Thats a tie. They also tied on outwit. Because they didn't get voted out.  is im being facetious
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May 20, 2022 22:36
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Supposedly, Fabio was supposed to have an even more lopsided win, but a couple jurors thought Chase deserved not to lose by that big of a margin and swapped and almost caused him to win.
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May 21, 2022 00:37
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I can absolutely see Maryanne talking herself into a loss at final tribal if she makes it. She can be really loving annoying sometimes.
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May 21, 2022 00:55
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credit to romeo for not blowing it by spilling the beans
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May 21, 2022 01:14
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STONE COLD 64 posted:credit to romeo for not blowing it by spilling the beans Just the rice
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May 21, 2022 01:40
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Romeo reached the point where he gets credit for not screwing up. You hate to see it.
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May 21, 2022 01:47
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In a stunning surprise twist. The final tribal is going to turn into a beauty pageant between Jonathan & Maryanne and Romeo is going to be their to coach both of them to win the game!
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May 21, 2022 04:42
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That may have been the first time I've seen an extra vote deployed successfully on this show. I don't know another time in which it's happened
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May 21, 2022 07:30
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sportsgenius86 posted:I can absolutely see Maryanne talking herself into a loss at final tribal if she makes it. She can be really loving annoying sometimes. Like depending on how self-aware she is about her personality she could make a legitimate case here.
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May 21, 2022 08:28
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i always believed in maryanne.
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May 21, 2022 12:11
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Ironic Twist posted:That may have been the first time I've seen an extra vote deployed successfully on this show. I don't know another time in which it's happened I think they've been deployed "successfully" before but I agree that I can't remember another time it was the actual deciding factor And I mean successful in the sense that the person deploying the extra vote got what they wanted and had no way of knowing for certain if they would be the deciding vote or not so it was the correct tactical move even if it turned out not to be necessary Really for all the talk about advantage overload in Survivor an awful lot of advantages end up causing player drama but not actually turning the tide, game mechanically. Including the one that was supposedly cut from this season.
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May 21, 2022 18:01
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I think that's the best use of them but the show doesn't seem to realize it, or when they do, they do it really hamfistedly, like the "weird phrases" requirement of the tri-force idol. The best thing from a game advantage is that Having It causes drama, a stick to poke the anthill and see what happens. I think most of the convoluted elements they add to advantages just muddle whatever anthill-poking power they could have.
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May 21, 2022 18:46
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Khanstant posted:I think that's the best use of them but the show doesn't seem to realize it, or when they do, they do it really hamfistedly, like the "weird phrases" requirement of the tri-force idol. The best thing from a game advantage is that Having It causes drama, a stick to poke the anthill and see what happens. I think most of the convoluted elements they add to advantages just muddle whatever anthill-poking power they could have. Full agree
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May 21, 2022 19:07
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Yeah, the only advantage I have a problem with from a power level perspective is the nullifier. But that’s only because it has so little counterplay and so little cost for “misplaying” it. My fix for it would make it an idol that can only be played on someone else, but if a regular idol is played on that person they cancel. So if you play it on someone who doesn’t have/use their idol you’ve accidentally made them immune. It’s probably too complicated to make for interesting television, but I really hate the nullifier as is on a conceptual level.
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May 21, 2022 19:10
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This felt more like twist geddon, with Jenny, Lydia, Rocks, Tori all being affected pretty noticably by twists. Next episode is def the advantage geddon episode though, just based on the number of idols at play (there should only be 2 available targets lol)
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May 21, 2022 19:17
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the hourglass "twist" I hate because it's usually a "pick someone to go to island, who knows what will happen" and that's not that interesting. back in the day it was sometimes like a secret death sentence or chance for everyone else conspire against you but it doesn't feel like it usually goes down that way anymore. I think if they wanted to reuse the "winners is losers now" item, having it just at the merge camp, where the flag is and if anyone breaks it between a challenge and tribal, the win flip occurs. That way it's a potentially dramatic and tribal pressure point to have around. Maybe a sore loser just smashes it after in a hissy fit and pisses everyone off and gets voted out next opportunity, or becomes everyone's goat they can bully along. Maybe someone does a secret night crawl and smashes it silently. Maybe a dominant tribe uses it to flip the tables on one of their own. Just anything but it being a random gamble or mystery choice.
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May 21, 2022 19:46
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