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They've always been worried about jetpack + blade runners being overpowered when it's really just a minor QOL improvement. You can already get more horizontal speed by putting down small strips of mk.5 belt all over the place and slide jumping off them, being able to get the same effect using jetpack + blade runners and rocket jumping with the new pulse nobelisks sounds like a more fun alternative that won't clutter the landscape.
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May 20, 2022 18:18
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Perhaps THE most annoying thing in this game for me is to have to hotswap equipment the whole time so them finally allowing multiple equipment slots is a godsend.
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May 20, 2022 18:27
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Hell, I’m excited just to be able to sheathe equipment
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May 20, 2022 18:35
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Very happy with those changes. Also a stealth inventory buff since we won't be carrying around the spare equipment in the main inventory any more. Rebar shotgun, pulse nobelisk, and homing rounds are the all stars of the new ammo I think, really looking forward to that stuff.
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May 20, 2022 18:39
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That was a great video, but saying that Jetpack + Bladerunners is OP is super silly to me. I avoid using the jetpack unless I absolutely have to because it isn't the blade runners. So hopefully any future tweaks they do don't ruin the experience of having both at the same time.
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May 20, 2022 19:08
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The ammo types TBQH seem pretty superfluous, other than the rifle smart ammo. (I know at least one person who dislikes all types of action/FPS games and said combat was too hard even after getting the rifle, because he really can't aim at a moving target.) One thing not demonstrated: wearing a gas mask while driving. Ice Fist posted:That was a great video, but saying that Jetpack + Bladerunners is OP is super silly to me. I avoid using the jetpack unless I absolutely have to because it isn't the blade runners. It is super silly because the very first thing he does in that vid after putting on the gas mask & jetpack is a slide-jump. Slide-jump = same horizontal movement speed as blade runners. So you can already do 95% of the blade runners plus jetpack combo if you slide-jump all the time.
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May 20, 2022 19:42
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Also why would "being OP" even matter? This is not a competitive game and this change is just a pure quality of life upgrade 
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May 20, 2022 20:04
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Game design is still a thing in single player games as well.
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May 20, 2022 20:07
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I assume the main concern is not letting you totally trivialise the platforming puzzles, at least not without building something. You can obviously cheese most of them with very basic foundations and ladders, but at least then you know you're cheesing them rather than playing naively with your normal travel loadout and finding all the navigation to be much less interesting for some reason.
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May 20, 2022 20:30
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But jetpack alone already is enough to trivialize all those puzzles
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May 20, 2022 20:42
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Yeah I only see this as a QoL improvement over having to swap to the jetpack while in midair and then back to the legs when I hit the ground.
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May 20, 2022 20:44
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Tenebrais posted:You can obviously cheese most of them with very basic foundations and ladders I maintain that this is not cheesing and is, in fact, the intended way to do these things 
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May 20, 2022 23:00
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There aren't really puzzles in this game beyond "can I stand in this gas/radiation long enough to open this crash site/grab this slug without dying?" You can go anywhere you want as soon as you unlock foundations and automate concrete, any increased mobility they add is just cutting down on time spent going back and forth between a build site and item storage.
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May 20, 2022 23:07
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I mean, there are clearly "jumping puzzles" - heavy airquotes here - in this game. As in, someone took the time to make paths to things like slugs. "Oh look, a slug on the top of a rock that has three gradually taller rocks leading to it that are perfectly spaced to require a running jump to clear". Do I? A) Do the jumping challenge laid out for me by the developers? Maybe fail a couple of times, but ultimately successfully get the slug? B) Build a 12 meter ramp out of 3 foundations I zoop into existence with the magic builder gun that is the corner stone of the entire game and grab the slug? Basically I don't think their balance concern is their carefully laid puzzles. If it is that's a very silly concern. As you said, you can circumvent almost all challenges (sans the ones that require blowing something up) once you have automated concrete and foundations unlocked. I'd honestly like to know what their concern is with using both at the same time, it doesn't make any sense to me. Either way, I'll enjoy the poo poo out of using both until they do something to "balance" it.
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May 20, 2022 23:22
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So I think "OP or QoL" isn't a great way to think about it. Instead think from a neutral perspective about game design and ask "Are there interesting challenges / gameplay opportunities that come from making the player's life harder?" Plenty of games have super-arbitrary restrictions that are a yes to that question. Stamina in a Soulslike is an obvious one, it's a thing that other ARGPs don't have and makes the player's life harder by comparison. In Satisfactory the hoverpack needs powerlines rather than fuel because perma-hover would remove all challenge from exploration without adding anything interesting. So I'd say the bladerunner+jetpack is a no there, because there's pretty much nothing that the runners actually add to the jetpack's ability to maneuver the environment (both exploration & factory building). Runners just let you get around faster. About the only thing I can think of in the slightest is that runners allow you to run away from most wildlife even better than the jetpack. But IMO if a player has the jetpack and still needs to run away from enemies, let them run. What I'd point to: having both a body & back slot implies you'll be able to use both a radsuit and a jetpack/hoverpack at the same time. Having the radsuit be a thing that diminishes the player's maneuverability is actually interesting to me. The main place you need the radsuit is within your own factory. So that means building a good nuke plant means additional challenges like "I need to design this to be navigable on foot". If you build everything with the hoverpack and forget to put in any catwalks it may be a PITA later. So IMO there should be a single body slot.
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May 20, 2022 23:42
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Tamba posted:But jetpack alone already is enough to trivialize all those puzzles It trivialises plenty, but it opens up more ones where the challenge becomes more about carefully crossing to this other cliff without running out of fuel. Those are interesting, and would be diminished a bit if you could use the blade runners to get more momentum going into it. I don't think this sort of thing is a reason to not allow them to be used together, just that it's a valid reason to want to be careful with the balance. Make sure the physics they give you are appropriate for the challenges in the environment.
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May 21, 2022 00:28
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If the jetpack doesn't eliminate the puzzle, the hoverpack certainly does. Incidentally my worlds are now littered with power poles.
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May 21, 2022 00:43
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Increasingly concerned by the usage of the word “puzzle” in this context
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May 21, 2022 00:48
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Concrete is the hammer to the actual nails being posed
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May 21, 2022 00:59
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Tenebrais posted:It trivialises plenty, but it opens up more ones where the challenge becomes more about carefully crossing to this other cliff without running out of fuel. Those are interesting, and would be diminished a bit if you could use the blade runners to get more momentum going into it. You can get just as much momentum with a slide-jump without blade runners though. Alternately, build a short conveyor as a ski-jump. (And before you ask, no, a slide-jump while wearing blade runners does not increase your speed. Instead it makes you pogo-jump real high. Why? Beats the gently caress out of me. Pretty sure the slide-jump in general is an artifact of unreal player physics and not something CS deliberately designed.)
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May 21, 2022 01:13
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Equipment combinations being OP in a single player game is not about giving the player too much capability. It's about making an objective loadout which disincentivizes the player to use anything else. The biggest confusing point about this is that all of the non-mobility equipment in Satisfactory is situational and tailored to specific hazards (i.e., radsuit for radiation, mask for farts, parachutes for height). Blade runners are not situational, they're always great. Similarly, the jetpack is always great except for when the hover pack is better for something like building. So really, what I'm trying to say here is that if equipment had more diversity, there would be a better argument for not allowing for OP combinations, but everything except for that combo is already super situational so...
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May 21, 2022 03:14
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What I'm concerned about is this focus about exploration now combined with more capable ammo types. Which translates to me that there's stronger enemies or high amount of them coming, an attempt to softgate certain regions (or at least their resource nodes) by research and manufacturing of the better stuff.
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May 21, 2022 07:55
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Problem: $ITEM trivializes all challenges currently. Solution: add harder challenges
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May 21, 2022 12:03
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lordfrikk posted:Problem: $ITEM trivializes all challenges currently. Solution: add harder challenges balance is more nuanced then "just buff everything" or "make other things harder" - something being and outlier could throw a bunch of other stuff off that requires a bunch more work to fix. That said, in this context i'm still not super clear why it's that much of a problem because by the time you can get jetpack + blade runners you almost certainly have the resources to just foundation/ladder you way anywhere. Being able to equip everything mostly just seems like a convenience.
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May 21, 2022 13:12
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One stack of concrete by itself is enough to get you anywhere on the map.
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May 21, 2022 16:05
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It’s an attempt to let people play the game they want to play it and nothing more. No one cares about challenge in a game where all the challenges are easily surmounted given enough time.
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May 22, 2022 03:43
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I am super happy that you can clip pipes and stuff into each other now, it suits my style of building:
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May 23, 2022 17:20
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delete this
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May 23, 2022 17:26
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no show us more
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May 23, 2022 17:27
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I'm triggered. I have hundred of hours in this game and could have very easily beaten it multiple times, but I'm so goddamn obsessed with things looking nice even if I'm the only one who will ever see it Addendum: even if everything is hidden in a logistics floor and is purposely shut away from the light of day It's like I'm terrified someone will peal back the floor of one of my factories and go WHAT THE gently caress IS GOING ON HERE? Ice Fist fucked around with this message at 17:32 on May 23, 2022 |
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May 23, 2022 17:29
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LifeSunDeath posted:I am super happy that you can clip pipes and stuff into each other now, it suits my style of building: That's nothing. You should try installing splitters/mergers on preexisting sloped belts.
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May 23, 2022 17:57
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Ice Fist posted:I'm triggered. I have hundred of hours in this game and could have very easily beaten it multiple times, but I'm so goddamn obsessed with things looking nice even if I'm the only one who will ever see it It's called having standards.
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May 23, 2022 18:49
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You may not like what 1GW of peak power looks like, but my pipe spaghetti is running at least 90% efficiency rn. e, this game really is like a meditative practice on how to not worry so much about things being perfect: 
LifeSunDeath fucked around with this message at 20:08 on May 23, 2022 |
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May 23, 2022 18:58
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dexefiend posted:It's called having standards. LifeSunDeath posted:You may not like what 1GW of peak power looks like, but my pipe spaghetti is running at least 90% efficiency rn. For some of us, it's when our latent OCD goes into overdrive  
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May 23, 2022 20:21
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Ice Fist posted:For some of us, it's when our latent OCD goes into overdrive The coal generator islands must be clean and perfectly efficient.  
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May 23, 2022 20:42
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Ice Fist posted:I'm triggered. I have hundred of hours in this game and could have very easily beaten it multiple times, but I'm so goddamn obsessed with things looking nice even if I'm the only one who will ever see it Yeah, but you see it. Personally that's the reason that I like the game a lot more than other factory games: the part where you build stuff is more than just executing a plan. If the aesthetics matter to your build, then you get to be creative throughout the whole process. A thing that happens to me in Factorio (and would probably be the same in DSP) is that I'd design a system and then kinda get bored with the building part. You get all sorts of tools to make that part faster, but even stuff like blueprints is optimizing towards a rote action. I wanna step back at the end and be all impressed with myself.
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May 23, 2022 20:45
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If people want to see a cursed build, check out my copper area: My other builds are nowhere near this awful, chalk it up to being an early build I suppose: 
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May 23, 2022 22:51
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LMAO, looks great! I just built a yeet cannon again, so glad they didn't remove those.
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May 23, 2022 23:19
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I can't get them to do squat. I put like 5 pairs of tube entrances all in a row and the second I hit an incline i'm going snail speed.
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May 24, 2022 02:41
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May 24, 2022 04:15
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