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Riot Bimbo posted:the manson stuff w/ chaos is a nice little setpiece deconstruction of a thing everyone takes for granted they know the story of, and then shows you how wrong you are, you moron, you absolute buffoon; and introduces a cavalcade of wacky character actors that keep showing up in America's Greatest Domestic Hits so you can start breaking your brain at your own, comfortable pace. I've said it before in here but the best aspect of CHAOS is that the author experiences the exact same thing the reader does.
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May 25, 2022 20:32
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Also there's the fact that O'Neill doesn't go in as a  but progressively crack/pings into one. 'By this point I sure thought things had crazy enough, and I never thought that just one month on I'd be reading up on [x], but boy was I wrong'. Great for the novice friend who thinks they're just getting some true crime Manson stuff and now they know that the CIA gave elephants acid.Thanks for the podcast recommendations. Only one I've never listened to is Transmissions, so will be starting that, and listening to episodes of Death is Just Around the Corner that aren't just the JFK ones. Edit: Just seen this essentially echoed what the poster above put more succinctly. Never mind.
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May 25, 2022 20:35
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I'm reading Chaos right now and I really appreciate that the first person bits are for the most part set in the 90's and 2000's, when it was more forgivable for a journalist or even a laymen to not be -pilled
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May 25, 2022 20:40
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mdemone posted:I've said it before in here but the best aspect of CHAOS is that the author experiences the exact same thing the reader does. also the conclusion drawn at the end is basically "I don't know exactly what happened, but I know the official story is filled with holes" and I feel like most people's problems with 'Conspiracies' is the tendency to work backward from an already determined conclusion and make all the evidence fit into that story. So it's good introductory material for a couple reasons.
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May 25, 2022 20:40
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actually no the best part is the high keening squealing sound my brain made (and has not stopped making) when I learned Jolly West's office was on Manson's block.
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May 25, 2022 21:01
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Riot Bimbo posted:the manson stuff w/ chaos is a nice little setpiece deconstruction of a thing everyone takes for granted they know the story of, and then shows you how wrong you are, you moron, you absolute buffoon; and introduces a cavalcade of wacky character actors that keep showing up in America's Greatest Domestic Hits so you can start breaking your brain at your own, comfortable pace. yeah, and i think people are more willing to entertain that there was something more to Manson than the official story, than something like the JFK assassination.
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May 25, 2022 21:03
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Shear Modulus posted:yeah, and i think people are more willing to entertain that there was something more to Manson than the official story, than something like the JFK assassination. JOLLY FUCKIN WEST
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May 25, 2022 21:05
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Shear Modulus posted:yeah, and i think people are more willing to entertain that there was something more to Manson than the official story, than something like the JFK assassination. are they? I thought something like 2/3rds of Americans didn't buy the official JFK story
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May 25, 2022 21:06
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I think at this point if somebody found out Epstein's (EPSTINE) grandpa was Jolly West, I would not even feel a twinge of shock
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May 25, 2022 21:06
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it rules and is hilarious that one of the most important men in American history is called Jolly.
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May 25, 2022 21:08
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Shear Modulus posted:yeah, and i think people are more willing to entertain that there was something more to Manson than the official story, than something like the JFK assassination. really? I feel like your point is kinda right but JFK? Everyone I knew growing up more or less flatly don't believe the Warren findings but have no idea what to go on besides that? Like "Yeah that poo poo doesn't add up at all" is way more common around Dallas than "there was some shady poo poo going on with the manson murders", which is comparatively rare. I didn't know you could be a Manson-truther until CHAOS idk jack ruby was a guy you might've met, known, or had to deal with in some capacity before he ganked Oswald if you grew up in Dallas. I have no first degree connections but the town wasn't that big back then, and I guess people still smell the poo poo all over that in Dallas. Nobody wants to make the link to the mob or the CIA but a certainty that poo poo doesn't add up has always been there
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May 25, 2022 21:11
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RandolphCarter posted:it rules and is hilarious that one of the most important men in American history is called Jolly. HE VISITED MCVEIGH IN JAIL BEFORE THEY CHARGED HIM WITH THE CRIME Edit: AAAAHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA
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May 25, 2022 21:11
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Riot Bimbo posted:
GUESS WHO ELSE MET JOLLY WEST IN JAIL AFTER THEY DID A THING
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May 25, 2022 21:14
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sidney gottlieb "Godlove", and jolly west. Watch out if we ever find a guy named Joy Rapture Razorhands
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May 25, 2022 21:14
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Riot Bimbo posted:
Jack Ruby was originally from Chicago and had 'busisness' ties there til he was arrested. My grandpa met him. Didn't ever tell me much about him other than he was 100% mobbed up, pretty dumb, and would do whatever he was told.
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May 25, 2022 21:19
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my bony fealty posted:are they? I thought something like 2/3rds of Americans didn't buy the official JFK story idk, i just think the ultimate conclusion is a big pill to swallow. there are lots of ways you can say you suspect something is up with the official story, like you can suspect there's something about the grassy knoll or that jack ruby immediately killing oswald doesn't really have a good explanation in the official story, but someone can think the official story is bunk and still not completely lose their innocence by concluding that the mob did it, or that the only reason the government covered it up was to hide their own incompetence in letting JFK get killed
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May 25, 2022 21:20
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mdemone posted:GUESS WHO ELSE MET JOLLY WEST IN JAIL AFTER THEY DID A THING if i ever get arrested and a guy with a name that sounds like a tertiary santa claus mythos character shows up to see me, i'm gonna be real scared tbqh
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May 25, 2022 21:25
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Riot Bimbo posted:if i ever get arrested and a guy with a name that sounds like a tertiary santa claus mythos character shows up to see me, i'm gonna be real scared tbqh he’s like krampus but evil
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May 25, 2022 21:27
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jolly west is literally the judge from blood meridian
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May 25, 2022 21:28
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he's making a list, checking it twice, doesn't really care if your naughty or nice; jolly west grunt gently caress lone nut
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May 25, 2022 21:33
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Shear Modulus posted:idk, i just think the ultimate conclusion is a big pill to swallow. there are lots of ways you can say you suspect something is up with the official story, like you can suspect there's something about the grassy knoll or that jack ruby immediately killing oswald doesn't really have a good explanation in the official story, but someone can think the official story is bunk and still not completely lose their innocence by concluding that the mob did it, or that the only reason the government covered it up was to hide their own incompetence in letting JFK get killed read the Waldron book, honestly. it is "more likely than not" that the hypothesis put forward there is correct, given his evidence. would I call it ironclad? certainly not, but that's only because of Jolly West.
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May 25, 2022 21:34
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Shear Modulus posted:yeah, and i think people are more willing to entertain that there was something more to Manson than the official story, than something like the JFK assassination. i think it helps that chaos has the celebrity aspect to it too it keeps it from just being about government agencies and all that.
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May 25, 2022 21:36
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Is 9/11 no longer the gateway pill then?
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May 25, 2022 21:40
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You've got to approach this from their sensibilities. If you like Charles Manson and have an hour to kill, you could snuggle with the family for the relaxing BBC documentary It Felt Like a Kiss. Banging soundtrack, amazing archive footage with a cast of everyone you know and loathe. The full thing is usually on YouTube and probably elsewhere. If the snippet below of brainwashing is not to your taste then it might be drag. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tOYYztbLZo
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May 25, 2022 21:48
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crazyvanman posted:Is 9/11 no longer the gateway pill then? 9/11 is about as straightforward as it gets in this thread. yeah we knew stuff but nobody was gonna do stuff.
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May 25, 2022 21:57
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I have trouble with some of the conspiratorial logic because the association link is a little too broad. like saying someone had a CIA file meant they were acting in concert with or by the direction of the CIA. Doesn’t mean it’s not true, just doesn’t quite meet the level to me.
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May 25, 2022 22:04
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mdemone posted:9/11 is about as straightforward as it gets in this thread. lol it was declassified! it’s all on video, publicly available bandar bush did 9/11
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May 25, 2022 22:07
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Fly Molo posted:lol it was declassified! it’s all on video, publicly available I'm listening. I mean I can be had on this probably. if you cracked me I might not even ping more than a little
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May 25, 2022 22:10
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Fly Molo posted:lol it was declassified! it’s all on video, publicly available that spoiler is the best. saudi prince trains a bunch of saudi nationals to do a terrorism at the behest of the saudi intelligence services, and we end up invading iraq. this is america!
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May 25, 2022 22:12
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mdemone posted:I'm listening. I mean I can be had on this probably. if you cracked me I might not even ping more than a little no it’s not even conspiratorial as of a month ago, prince bandar was literally paying a stipend for the hijackers https://nationalpost.com/news/world/home-video-shows-9-11-hijackers-partying-with-alleged-saudi-intelligence-officer quote:A 510-page newly declassified and liberally redacted FBI memo from 2017 states that al-Bayoumi, “in the late 1990s and up to September 11, 2001 … was paid a monthly stipend as a co-optee of the Saudi General Intelligence Presidency via then-ambassador Prince Bandar bin Sultan.” got to hand it to uhhh the trump fbi for compiling that report in 2017 
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May 25, 2022 22:16
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Fly Molo posted:no it’s not even conspiratorial as of a month ago, prince bandar was literally paying a stipend for the hijackers oooh I knew all that but the Bush ties. *picks up dusty stomped hat* *throws it down, kicks it*
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May 25, 2022 22:17
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Delta-Wye posted:that spoiler is the best. saudi prince trains a bunch of saudi nationals to do a terrorism at the behest of the saudi intelligence services, and we end up invading iraq. this is america! Also, US tried to blame it on Iran - which is genius really as it stuffed up court battles and muddled the whole discourse for decades. What even is a conspiracy theory at that point? Meanwhile the USA gets to wage a holy war of revenge on the planet alongside the loyal and democratic KSA.
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May 25, 2022 22:21
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I’ve really only consumed CHAOS and the first bit of Chessboard, plus a dozen episodes of Ghost Stories and of course the contents of this thread, but I’m pretty sure my fiancée is a little worried that I’ll have a few drinks at our wedding and start explaining The Real poo poo to her relatives. Can’t go back through that door, though, the world is full of crazy poo poo.
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May 25, 2022 22:25
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normalize being completely batshit insane imo i need an easier route through however long i have left on this wretched hologram reality
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May 25, 2022 22:28
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Pretty much anytime I hear someone talk about and laugh at conspiracy theories like Q I now immediately break into "And the most frustrating part is that all of this stuff is real, they're just not seeing it right. The cabal is real but it's just a bunch of rich people and whatever government employees who have free reign and blank checkbooks in the name of national defense. What do you know about MKUltra?"
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May 25, 2022 22:33
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Subjunctive posted:I’ve really only consumed CHAOS and the first bit of Chessboard, plus a dozen episodes of Ghost Stories and of course the contents of this thread, but I’m pretty sure my fiancée is a little worried that I’ll have a few drinks at our wedding and start explaining The Real poo poo to her relatives. Can’t go back through that door, though, the world is full of crazy poo poo. the relatives who thought I was a conspiracy theorist in 2016 for saying both Trump and Clinton were on Epstein's plane now think I'm a sheep for believing the earth is round poo poo's weird now
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May 25, 2022 22:34
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Gumball Gumption posted:Pretty much anytime I hear someone talk about and laugh at conspiracy theories like Q I now immediately break into "And the most frustrating part is that all of this stuff is real, they're just not seeing it right. The cabal is real but it's just a bunch of rich people and whatever government employees who have free reign and blank checkbooks in the name of national defense. What do you know about MKUltra?" I could do two hours off the top of my head. I mean they'd have to bring me beer and stuff to keep me going.
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May 25, 2022 22:37
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mdemone posted:I could do two hours off the top of my head. I mean they'd have to bring me beer and stuff to keep me going. It's a good intro because you can show how not crazy you are are by explaining that you don't believe the really paranoid stuff, just the deprogramming of humans which is recorded history.
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May 25, 2022 22:44
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A sleeper hit for pilling your friends and family is the octopus network investigation. I got somebody to watch it and it was like the Anakin and Padme meme 'that was a cool arg' 'it was an Arg right?'
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May 25, 2022 23:32
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cagliostr0 posted:A sleeper hit for pilling your friends and family is the octopus network investigation. I got somebody to watch it and it was like the Anakin and Padme meme i couldnt get through it last time i tried cause there were missing parts and its a lot of recap in each segment with annoying local news stuff. it needs a supercut
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May 26, 2022 00:17
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