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Salisbury Snape posted:why is the price cap for energy being raised if energy companies are making enough excess profit to levy a windfall tax? 
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May 26, 2022 12:38
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Well that was a poo poo show of a Cost of Living Statement. Going to give back the companies with outrageous profits more money so that they make things cheaper. Or just buy their own shares and give exec bonuses like they did before, every time.
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May 26, 2022 12:46
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There are energy producers (who pump the oil out of the ground) who are making shitloads of cash selling oil and gas to energy refiners, who sell the refined products to energy providers (your Big Six and the myriad of smaller companies that have popped up) to sell to consumers - The price cap only affects how much providers can sell electricity and gas to consumers for (e: and specifically residential consumers), whereas the price the providers pay for the products sold by the refiners is governed by The Invisible Hand Of The Free Market
Doccykins fucked around with this message at 12:49 on May 26, 2022 |
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May 26, 2022 12:47
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Salisbury Snape posted:Probably a stupid question, but why is the price cap for energy being raised if energy companies are making enough excess profit to levy a windfall tax? Surely just don't increase the price cap in the first place or am I missing something? because not raising the energy cap would directly impact energy firms ability to drain their customer's blood this way they can means test it and link it to winter fuel allowance for pensioners etc and get maximum political bang for the least bucks off their mates bottom line
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May 26, 2022 12:49
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happyhippy posted:Well that was a poo poo show of a Cost of Living Statement. they have no idea/intention of solving the problem. They are bunging everyone a few hundred quid in the hope that prices will drop and this is a short term thing. Unless wages pick up, do they really think things are going to get better? - no major company has made a loss, or even a reduction in profits so far, so they are all just pushing up prices and seeing how much blood they can drink before the host dies.
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May 26, 2022 12:52
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I'm generally in support of not means testing public benefits, but lol at them bunging £300 to winter fuel allowance recipients, i.e. every single person over 65. Completely shameless.
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May 26, 2022 12:56
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Dead Goon posted:Eat the rich. That's the problem with wealth concentration; there's not enough rich people around for the rest of us to get more than a mouthful.
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May 26, 2022 13:17
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Doccykins posted:There are energy producers (who pump the oil out of the ground) who are making shitloads of cash selling oil and gas to energy refiners, who sell the refined products to energy providers (your Big Six and the myriad of smaller companies that have popped up) to sell to consumers - The price cap only affects how much providers can sell electricity and gas to consumers for (e: and specifically residential consumers), whereas the price the providers pay for the products sold by the refiners is governed by The Invisible Hand Of The Free Market even if some providers are going bust plenty of them seem to be making record profits also so I'm not sure i buy this line of reasoning the whole purpose of the cap was to mitigate end consumers from potentially shouldering risk because ordinary people can't choose to opt out of receiving electricity like you can with some other market goods. they then had to massively hike the cap becasue the market had been so poorly regulated that it had minimal resilience and blew up the second it hit a real shock so yeah the world has changed, but it seems to have changed quite favourably for some of the major players in the market and very negatively for ordinary people. funny how that works.
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May 26, 2022 13:23
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Doccykins posted:There are energy producers (who pump the oil out of the ground) who are making shitloads of cash selling oil and gas to energy refiners, who sell the refined products to energy providers (your Big Six and the myriad of smaller companies that have popped up) to sell to consumers - The price cap only affects how much providers can sell electricity and gas to consumers for (e: and specifically residential consumers), whereas the price the providers pay for the products sold by the refiners is governed by The Invisible Hand Of The Free Market This is 100% correct. To add to this it is worth being aware that most consumer companies will have bought the gas and electricity they are selling now two years ago. Basically if we don't increase the cap every single smaller company goes bust and the market ends up in the hands of a few retail giants who can handle the cashflow. That or we end competition. Rustybear posted:the whole purpose of the cap was to mitigate end consumers from potentially shouldering risk because ordinary people can't choose to opt out of receiving electricity like you can with some other market goods. they then had to massively hike the cap becasue the market had been so poorly regulated that it had minimal resilience and blew up the second it hit a real shock Sort of, it wasn't the retail supply market that was poorly regulated particularly. It was the wholesale gas market.
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May 26, 2022 13:45
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Rustybear posted:even if some providers are going bust plenty of them seem to be making record profits also so I'm not sure i buy this line of reasoning The cap existed to prevent enegy companies massively overcharging consumers who didn't pay attention to their tariff and were paying vastly above market prices. It never was intended to mitigate or smooth over customer end risk, it existed to regulate the worst of the predatory behaviour of energy companies by setting a maximum profit they could make.
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May 26, 2022 13:49
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Failed Imagineer posted:The standard trope of "well after taxes and upkeep it's not even worth my while landlording" completely eliding the fact that after 25 years they will have a property asset that was entirely paid for by someone else, plus a small income over those years Not as much as you would think. A majority of BTL properties out there are on interest only mortgages. Landlords refinance every 5 years to remove the equity from the house price increase over that time. If house prices drop below a possible refinance level, it would screw over a lot of landlords as they could not gain any funds from their venture.
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May 26, 2022 13:59
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Salisbury Snape posted:Probably a stupid question, but why is the price cap for energy being raised if energy companies are making enough excess profit to levy a windfall tax? Surely just don't increase the price cap in the first place or am I missing something? The energy companies set prices not by what costs are but by what they think they will be in the future. They've been making record profits on low cost energy and are pushing prices up as high as they can because they think we're facing high cost energy soon, and have no storage capacity to insulate themselves against sudden price rises.
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May 26, 2022 14:14
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At this point it's almost purposeful mismanagement. The system is that we buy the gas, we use the gas, we used to store the gas, and then we used to sell on the excess gas. Now, centrica have sold off the storage. So we buy the gas, we use some of the gas, we have no storage, so we sell off the excess and make a profit. If customers use up the gas before centrica can resell it, that harms their profit so they have to put the prices up to customers to match the resale price. Trashfuture have covered this, it's pretty much all down to centrica being profiteering shits. Speaking of which: peanut- posted:If you need inspiration on where to find your first meal When British Gas was sold, one of the guarantees the union managed to finagle was a guarantee that Centrica and any subsequent employer would match the old pension deal. So obviously they spent years trying various ways to screw everyone out of it. Dad retired just before fire & rehire was the last nail in the coffin, a union man until the end. A lot of his co-workers did take the cashout and invest in ex council houses / flats in Newcastle though. At the time they were all advised the same bullshit landlords are now - passive income, secure investment, better than a pension, just pass it on to a lettings agency etc. I feel like the huge spike in statistics was because it hits a certain demographic who were not old enough to consider themselves close enough to their pension to hold out, but not so young that they were denied entry to the better pensions of yore. It's weird because a lot of them were hosed over by employers who wanted them out of the unprofitable pension deals, only to be pointed towards a glistening opportunity to enter the growing sector of being someone who fucks someone else over for profit. I'm not apologising for that generation, I'm just saying a lot of the shitheads landlording are people who were pushed out of the pension system, were incredibly lucky to have a ton of housing stock available to buy with their cash, and have never questioned the convergence of the two phenomena. Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 14:31 on May 26, 2022 |
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May 26, 2022 14:17
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it's Jeremy Corbyn's birthday today
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May 26, 2022 14:47
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Happy birthday Jermery. Happy Jermery Day to everyone
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May 26, 2022 14:50
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May 26, 2022 14:58
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Inexplicable Humblebrag posted:it's Jeremy Corbyn's birthday today I hope he has a nice time and sees a really good manhole cover or whatever
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May 26, 2022 15:00
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I'd like to make a prediction that boris will be brought down by a scandal but it'll have nothing to do with his sex pestery and party gate. He'll get caught in a scandal that ended up losing energy companies money or some poo poo. Oh snaps Boris pocketed money that was meant to go to the immigration services he cannot be allowed to continue
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May 26, 2022 15:10
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Today is the latest in a long line of Labour asking for a measure and the Tories eventually doing something that's actually better, right?
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May 26, 2022 15:19
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Bobby Deluxe posted:At this point it's almost purposeful mismanagement. The system is that we buy the gas, we use the gas, we used to store the gas, and then we used to sell on the excess gas. You've hit the nail on the head really. There was a point in time when a significant number of company pension schemes went under leaving many people with nothing to show for years of contributions or other hits to pension schemes. Maxwell, Gordon Broon stealing all the poonds, pension contribution "holidays" on the part of employers resulting in big deficits when the markets and thus value of pension investments by those companies went down, Equitable Life - one of my friends lost thousands of her 'pension pot' <digress>I hate that expression</digress>, and so on. In fear, people were looking around for alternatives and becoming a BTL landlord seemed the obvious choice for many. Also, many receiving large payout redundancy money (or being given the option of 'early retirement' if old enough) were encouraged to invest in property. There seemed nothing more secure at the time. Many in this age group (of which I am one) could remember major stock market crashes but none really remembered a major property price crash - there were a rocky few years around the turn of the century (late 90s early 00s) but property prices recovered at a point when this demographic would have been in their 40s.
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May 26, 2022 15:42
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Copied from 'the other place'. https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1529819497032347648?s=20&t=AVPLLSp2_orEKK4XhZy6CA
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May 26, 2022 15:48
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Can't wait to find out me and my disabled mother are both on The Wrong Benefits and won't see a penny of this windfall.
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May 26, 2022 16:26
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:Copied from 'the other place'. It's like if the Tories bought Labour ads of "look at all those crying racists". Probably some pats on the back going round the office right now, even besides the "Labour directly funding Tories" bit.
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May 26, 2022 16:30
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:Copied from 'the other place'. So they've given a bunch of money to a Tory propaganda site, in order to display messages to the kind of person who directly visits a Tory propaganda site with ads enabled in the first place - i.e. someone who is reflexively never going to vote for Labour anyway.
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May 26, 2022 16:34
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Gyro Zeppeli posted:Can't wait to find out me and my disabled mother are both on The Wrong Benefits and won't see a penny of this windfall. E: Which windfall incidentally? Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 16:40 on May 26, 2022 |
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May 26, 2022 16:35
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Salisbury Snape posted:Probably a stupid question, but why is the price cap for energy being raised if energy companies are making enough excess profit to levy a windfall tax? Surely just don't increase the price cap in the first place or am I missing something? Remember it's in Ofgems remit to stop energy companies making excess profits. So when the cap gets raised again in October, coupled with spiralling fuel costs and the fact it will be cold enough for everyone's household energy use to shoot up god knows what will happen.
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May 26, 2022 16:38
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McFlurry Fan #1 posted:Remember it's in Ofgems remit to stop energy companies making excess profits. Revolutionary Ofgem Faction (M-L)
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May 26, 2022 16:40
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 https://twitter.com/JasonGroves1/status/1529857945558831106
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May 26, 2022 17:29
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Salisbury Snape posted:Probably a stupid question, but why is the price cap for energy being raised if energy companies are making enough excess profit to levy a windfall tax? Surely just don't increase the price cap in the first place or am I missing something? Companies selling energy (and regulated by ofgen) are legally distinct from companies producing energy, even when one owns the other. Corporations are lovely things, are they not?
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May 26, 2022 17:46
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smellmycheese posted:The people behind it run this Gammon Theme Park quote:cafe for the elderly modelled on an air raid shelter Why would you want to model a place on one of the most terrifying and depressing times in peoples lives?
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May 26, 2022 17:54
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None of them have ever been down one. 
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May 26, 2022 17:56
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Any info on how this payment will happen? Is it something I have to apply for before the site crashes?
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May 26, 2022 18:05
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Scikar posted:So they've given a bunch of money to a Tory propaganda site, in order to display messages to the kind of person who directly visits a Tory propaganda site with ads enabled in the first place - i.e. someone who is reflexively never going to vote for Labour anyway. the message isn't even "vote Labour", it's "get rid of Boris so you can vote Tory guilt-free again" just staggering incompetence
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May 26, 2022 18:13
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We need to work out the precise details of the exact scandal that will cause the Tories to accidentally implement full socialism.
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May 26, 2022 18:27
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Any info on how this payment will happen? Is it something I have to apply for before the site crashes? It will get automatically applied to your electricity/gas bill from October.
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May 26, 2022 18:27
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deletebeepbeepbeep posted:It will get automatically applied to your electricity/gas bill from October. Are they going to fight over it if you have multiple suppliers?
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May 26, 2022 18:36
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Sunak said that one of the payments would be going to people on "non means tested disability benefits". Has anyone found anything defining exactly which benefits fall into this category?
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May 26, 2022 18:50
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Guavanaut posted:None of them have ever been down one. But I'm sure they understand the basic facets of world war II and how poo poo it would have been and all that. It's like having a restaurant modeled after the houses of parliament people understand that it is not a place of honor, that no highly esteemed deed is commemorated there and nothing valued is there.
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May 26, 2022 18:50
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No it was good and we won twice, eat your steak and kidney pie out of a replica incendiary bomb casing or get out 
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May 26, 2022 18:55
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bessantj posted:It's like having a restaurant modeled after the houses of parliament people understand that it is not a place of honor, that no highly esteemed deed is commemorated there and nothing valued is there. Idk there have been a few deeds worth commemorating in the history of Westminster. Namely; https://twitter.com/paulodonoghue93/status/1118843566888030208?t=wePw_OnqsrZzRWW9SLGghw&s=19 and I guess Guy Fawkes gets a prize for Attempted Chemistry
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May 26, 2022 19:11
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