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zoux posted:The other day I saw an episode of Voyager where they were all oohing and aahing over a supernova and I thought, oh wow they're actually doing something involving real astronomy and then it turned out it was just a side effect of a civil war in the Q continuum and would you like to meet Qs girlfriend, Q. Except that was Qsie Plackson, so all is forgiven 
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May 27, 2022 15:07
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The morse code isn't the issue. The bigger issue is that a 15 year old boy, when surrounded by cannibal lizard monsters who were apparently loving each other using his dead parents skin for whatever the gently caress a breeding sack is, took the time to calmly and rationally analyse and learn their completely different non-verbal language. I like SNW, but if it's got a choice between an emotional beat or keeping it's logic consistent, it's definitely going with the first one.
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May 27, 2022 15:12
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Did any of you guys have the Nitpicker's guides when you were kids? I loved those books, but if there's one thing you can't say about Star Trek is that it follows consistent logic.
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May 27, 2022 15:15
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I think the morse scene would have been better if La'an's brother had actually witnessed an escape/mutiny by humans against the Gorn that prompted a watchtower to signal another with the 'hey humans have seized the camp' message that she re-uses in the ruse, but that's not what they did oh well
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May 27, 2022 15:17
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zoux posted:Did any of you guys have the Nitpicker's guides when you were kids? I loved those books, but if there's one thing you can't say about Star Trek is that it follows consistent logic. I can see them on my bookshelf from here in my bed. Or at least I could, if I weren't a nerd with atrocious eyesight.
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May 27, 2022 15:24
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aw hell no you did not just shoot that green poo poo at me, shouts captain pike as the enterprise narrowly evades a salvo from the romulan ship
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May 27, 2022 15:32
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The morse code thing is dumb but this isn't groundbreaking silly. I mean TNG is full of just the dumbest things.
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May 27, 2022 15:32
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some kinda jackal posted:The morse code thing is dumb but this isn't groundbreaking silly. I mean TNG is full of just the dumbest things. Remember when they discovered that transporters can reverse the aging process and then never mentioned that to anyone ever again Wheeee posted:aw hell no you did not just shoot that green poo poo at me, shouts captain pike as the enterprise narrowly evades a salvo from the romulan ship I know it's been said but Anson Mount is great in this role. I love how he strikes a balance between nurturing mentor and swashbuckling adventurer. Just a spectacular Starfleet officer.
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May 27, 2022 15:39
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Crusader posted:I think the morse scene would have been better if La'an's brother had actually witnessed an escape/mutiny by humans against the Gorn that prompted a watchtower to signal another with the 'hey humans have seized the camp' message that she re-uses in the ruse, but that's not what they did oh well if it was consistent with the Gorn they would never flash that message because the next watchtower would just order an orbital bombardment of the entire camp tho
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May 27, 2022 15:42
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zoux posted:Also this is the first time we've ever seen a black hole in a Star Trek series, which is a bit like making 1000 episodes of a dinosaur show without ever mentioning a T-rex. There was a S1 episode of Voyager where they got caught inside one I guess. I dunno, it was very much "science is magic" because it wasn't rooted in anything.
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May 27, 2022 15:44
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And they escaped through "a crack in the event horizon"
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May 27, 2022 15:46
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CPColin posted:And they escaped through "a crack in the event horizon" But you can't doooo that, that's what event horizon means
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May 27, 2022 15:52
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Given that we didn't actually see the aliens, and that La'an is a seemingly unreliable narrator, blocked by trauma as shown in the mind-meld, perhaps the attackers aren't actually Gorn. First off, they conspicuously did not show the attackers at all. What we do know: they disabled the people of Finibus Three using a loud ringing sound, after which they don't seem to remember anything. The little girl who had her father taken said she couldn't see anything but heard clicking noises. They communicate visually using Morse code, in English (the sheet shown is almost exactly actual Morse code, but with the type of transcription errors you'd expect from somebody forced to figure out the code on their own without help). Given that the only one to know anything about the attackers is La'an Noonien-Singh, and they communicate in English, I'm going to guess the attackers were human augments of some sort. It would somewhat make sense, given that we've just had an episode about augments, and La'an was called "monster" for her name being associated with augments, and the child and La'an called the attackers "monsters". Perhaps there was another ship along the lines of the Botany Bay in Space Seed, but something went wrong and space radiation caused genetic mutations which lead to various impairments, but the crew survived and managed to make it to a planet and thrive with their super augment brains. The issue with my theory is that the impairments are all over the place. The clicking noises could be echolocation in addition to or instead of language, which would suggest blindness. The sonic attack and Morse code communication suggests them being deaf. These conflict in obvious ways. Really there is no way to make communicating with morse code in English through flashes of light in space ships make sense, and I just spent too much time trying.
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May 27, 2022 15:55
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zoux posted:But you can't doooo that, that's what event horizon means Voyager!
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May 27, 2022 16:01
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Kate Mulgrew was wasted on that trash
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May 27, 2022 16:03
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Wheeee posted:Kate Mulgrew was wasted on that trash I guess that would explain a few things.
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May 27, 2022 16:05
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Picard is more a spiritual sequel to Voyager than TNG because it carries on the former’s love of garbage writing
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May 27, 2022 16:07
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I'm actually working though VOY for the first time ever and it's not remotely as bad as people say. LIke, the science poo poo is atrocious for sure but the crew and the stories are fine, I've even come to tolerate Neelix. Janeway is great, and I see parallels to the way she nurtures and encourages her crew in Pike. After hearing for 20 years that Threshold is the worst thing ever written, it's not even in the top ten worst ST episodes of all time imo. Most of those are in TNG season 1. The Chakotay fake Indian episodes are way worse than Threshold.
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May 27, 2022 16:10
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Honestly the primary issue with Voyager is that it squanders and even ignores its own premise so terribly It's just TNG 1.5 but with a great hook that basically goes nowhere
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May 27, 2022 16:15
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Why didn't we get to see the first Gorn ship explode? They could have even made a comedic moment out of it.. the Gorn send out a guy who stands on top of the ship, he's looking out for anything through the brown fog, then out of nowhere the torpedo falls right in front of him He runs over and as he kicks it with his foot to see if anything is inside *** KABOOM *** But other than that it was a great episode
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May 27, 2022 16:15
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Voyager's reputation has definitely benefited from contemporary reevaluation, though it's mostly gone from "terrible" to "bland, but Seven and the Doctor are cool"
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May 27, 2022 16:17
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Wheeee posted:Kate Mulgrew was wasted on that trash One thing Prodigy has really shown is just how good Mulgrew could've been as Janeway if she had better writing.
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May 27, 2022 16:17
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Binary Badger posted:Why didn't we get to see the first Gorn ship explode? I liked that bit. Showing the kill from the Enterprise crew’s POV instead sort of emphasized that they were working without their usual sensors and such.
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May 27, 2022 16:18
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most of voyager’s cast and characters were kinda poo poo anyway wonder what ship ensign kim is sucking it up on in the picard timeline
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May 27, 2022 16:22
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Probably Magic posted:One thing Prodigy has really shown is just how good Mulgrew could've been as Janeway if she had better writing. I assure you, she's great on Voyager.
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May 27, 2022 16:26
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zoux posted:I assure you, she's great on Voyager. She's great in general, it just feels like she's more an interesting idea of "what bad bosses are actually like in real life instead of usually in fiction" where they're likeable and you may even have friendship with them, but they make very weird and arbitrary decisions sometimes. Janeway, Tuvok, the Doctor, and Seven are all great characters, and Paris is okay, but everyone else kinda suffers. Kind-of a shame Brad Dourif could only show up as a guest star, he would've made a more interesting constant crew member than a lot of the others. Also, I've only been able to catch the pilot and clips of the other episodes because I can't afford Paramount+ right now, but even as a big TOS fan, SNW seems pretty fun and like actual "Star Trek" to me the way clips from Picard and Discovery haven't. Star Trek really was made for episodic storytelling, huh? Who'd have thunk.
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May 27, 2022 16:32
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Did I miss how La’an got off of the nest planet? Sure seems like Starfleet is not interested in loving with the Gorn.
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May 27, 2022 16:35
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holefoods posted:Did I miss how La’an got off of the nest planet? Sure seems like Starfleet is not interested in loving with the Gorn. She talks about it in episode 1: the Gorn chose her to be the sole survivor as part of some cultural ritual, and stuffed her into an escape pod that a Starfleet ship found later
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May 27, 2022 16:40
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holefoods posted:Did I miss how La’an got off of the nest planet? Sure seems like Starfleet is not interested in loving with the Gorn. She explains it somewhere in I think the first episode. Basically the Gorn put the last survivor on a ship and leave them to their own devices. She happened to be rescued from it.
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May 27, 2022 16:41
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pyrotek posted:Given that we didn't actually see the aliens, and that La'an is a seemingly unreliable narrator, blocked by trauma as shown in the mind-meld, perhaps the attackers aren't actually Gorn. This would be way cooler and more interesting than them just being Gorn.
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May 27, 2022 16:44
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dr_rat posted:I mean black holes only have the same gravitational pull as a sun with the same mass so if it's in a stable orbit that's all fine, main odd thing is that they wouldn't really be getting any energy from a sun -brown dwarfs don't count- so it would of just been of random bit or rock in space. Maybe observation? Well, you don't want to be inline with the poles of a black hole that is actively feeding. The radiation there is strong enough to blast molecules apart for a considerable distance. Fortunately it's a very focused beam of energy, so unless it's pointed almost directly at you, you'll be fine.
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May 27, 2022 16:44
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so the gorn are horror movie monsters that realized if they free the last girl she can’t kill them 
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May 27, 2022 16:50
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I rewatched Arena last night as it had been ages since the last time I saw it and I didn’t remember it very well, and one thing that seems to track well with Memento Mori is the deviousness of the Gorn (faking the commander’s voice asking the the Enterprise to show up and beam down with all their tactical experts; destroying the colony with such ruthlessness that the survivor in sickbay appears traumatized to a degree similar to La’an) - before the Metrons intervene, I’m actually hard pressed to think of a TOS/TNG-era foe that fought the Enterprise in a similar fashion - at any rate, I think that’s a neat thing to revisit and one point in favor of using the Gorn over someone new.
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May 27, 2022 16:56
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If only they knew the true weakness of the Gorn: Gilligan's Island artillery
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May 27, 2022 16:56
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Eimi posted:This would be way cooler and more interesting than them just being Gorn. Actually humans but genetically engineered to be unrecognizable is a cool idea I've always wanted to see.
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May 27, 2022 17:12
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The Bloop posted:Honestly the primary issue with Voyager is that it squanders and even ignores its own premise so terribly Ronald D Moore joined the writing staff very briefly, was generally disregarded, and then just went on to use all the best Voyager concepts for BSG
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May 27, 2022 17:20
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zoux posted:I'm actually working though VOY for the first time ever and it's not remotely as bad as people say. LIke, the science poo poo is atrocious for sure but the crew and the stories are fine, I've even come to tolerate Neelix. Janeway is great, and I see parallels to the way she nurtures and encourages her crew in Pike. The worst episodes of trek are the ones that are the most mediocre and forgettable like the loss or melora. Famously bad episodes like threshold, sub rosa, masks and move along home are all quite entertaining and so get a pass. Code of honour is in a separate category.
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May 27, 2022 17:21
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I feel sorry for any joyless sadsack that hates Move Along Home
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May 27, 2022 17:23
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bltzn posted:Actually humans but genetically engineered to be unrecognizable is a cool idea I've always wanted to see. Dark Angel got weird towards the end, but it had some of that. 
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May 27, 2022 17:26
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The Bloop posted:I feel sorry for any joyless sadsack that hates Move Along Home
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