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Deviant posted:why does the larger denmark not simply eat the smaller switzerland Denmark is full according to all our right-wing parties.
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Jun 1, 2022 14:01
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Atreiden posted:Contracts have to be kept, so it makes sense that Denmark won't transfer them. What I really don't get is why would anyone buy weapons from Switzerland, when their "neutrality" apparently also mean they won't deliver ammunition and presumably spare parts to a country in war. I don't think it applies in cases where they have already made a contract for delivering and supplying a system. Of course no one would want a system that would only work during peace time. I would assume that such deals would also stipulate an option to buy spares and what not if the buyer came under attack.
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Jun 1, 2022 14:02
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cinci zoo sniper posted:I really hope this doesn’t end with Poland going full libertarianism to fund this Since when can you fund anything by going full libertarianism?
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Jun 1, 2022 14:02
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Nenonen posted:Well they wouldn't admit export permits in future to anyone who flagrantly broke the agreements. It would be a real shame since there aren't other places where you can buy IFVs
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Jun 1, 2022 14:05
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Tijuana Bibliophile posted:Since when can you fund anything by going full libertarianism? Release a new crypto coin? mobby_6kl posted:It would be a real shame since there aren't other places where you can buy IFVs Switzerland produces a lot more military equipment than one type of vehicle.
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Jun 1, 2022 14:08
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Atreiden posted:Contracts have to be kept, so it makes sense that Denmark won't transfer them. What I really don't get is why would anyone buy weapons from Switzerland, when their "neutrality" apparently also mean they won't deliver ammunition and presumably spare parts to a country in war. Didn't they deliver plenty of this sort of stuff to WW2 Germany?
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Jun 1, 2022 14:11
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Atreiden posted:Switzerland continues their tradition of "neutrality" that helps genocidal dictators. I was kinda wondering if my country (Belgium) couldn't give their Piranha vehicles to Ukraine, since they will be replaced soon with french Griffons and Jaguars. But I guess the Swiss would block it anyway. Also a number of them have a non-NATO standard 90mm canon on it, because of good old fashion corruption by then defense minister who gave some contracts to weapon factories in his political backyard. They still struggle to fire armor piercing ammo without catching fire or something like it.
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Jun 1, 2022 14:32
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Plenty of countries (probably all of them actually) have export restrictions on the military hardware they sell. Switzerland is not an outlier at all, and that includes the prohibition on re-exporting to third party war zones. A quick check of Swiss laws reveals article 18 of the Kriegsmaterialgesetz, which forbids re-exports. quote:Art. 18 Nichtwiederausfuhr-Erklärungen; Ausnahmen quote:Art. 18 Non-re-export declarations; exceptions Governments generally aren't too keen on breaking this kind of international contract because keeping your contracts is fundamental to the functioning of the international order.
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Jun 1, 2022 14:32
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OddObserver posted:Didn't they deliver plenty of this sort of stuff to WW2 Germany? Heil neutrality.
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Jun 1, 2022 14:34
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Tijuana Bibliophile posted:Since when can you fund anything by going full libertarianism? Spend national pension fund on tanks and leave the olds to die.
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Jun 1, 2022 14:48
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New facts have dropped. The dastardly turk plans to unite with Ukraine and create the otto-kyivan empire.
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Jun 1, 2022 14:55
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cinci zoo sniper posted:
I would like him to post more about the craziness that is the border areas - he said it was just crawling with war profiteers etc. Those kind of areas where the normal rules breakdown have always been fascinating to me Alctel fucked around with this message at 14:58 on Jun 1, 2022 |
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Jun 1, 2022 14:55
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Belarusian armed forces undergoing combat readiness check. According to General staff "working out issues of creating military grouping on the one of tactical directions" https://t.me/tass_agency/138877 Now of course the question is, is Belarus actually planning on doing anything or is this just posturing to keep pinning down Ukrainian troops on borders that don't matter as much as the Don bass defense?
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Jun 1, 2022 14:57
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I had a question on the MSLR and HIMARS the U.S. is sending Ukraine. The U.S. said it had assurances from Ukraine that it wouldn't be used to strike into Russia, but I thought that these types of weapon systems couldn't reach Russia?
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Jun 1, 2022 15:00
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Willo567 posted:I had a question on the MSLR and HIMARS the U.S. is sending Ukraine. The U.S. said it had assurances from Ukraine that it wouldn't be used to strike into Russia, but I thought that these types of weapon systems couldn't reach Russia? I think it depends on the ammo type
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Jun 1, 2022 15:01
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Willo567 posted:I had a question on the MSLR and HIMARS the U.S. is sending Ukraine. The U.S. said it had assurances from Ukraine that it wouldn't be used to strike into Russia, but I thought that these types of weapon systems couldn't reach Russia? The longest range missiles available have a hypothetical range of 300-500km. Ukraine's most likely getting an effective range of up to 70km.
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Jun 1, 2022 15:02
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It’s also a part of their laws in the Swiss War Material Act and that appears to be where the export licenses stem from: “This Act has as its aim the fulfilment of Switzerland’s international obligations and the respect of its foreign policy principles by means of controlling the manufacture and transfer of war materiel and related technology, while at the same time maintaining an industrial capacity in Switzerland that it adapted to the requirements of its national defence.” https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/1998/794_794_794/en Which applies unless it’s the Saudis (51m sales in Swiss Francs) killing Houthis because it’s not a real combat zone under the act because the Yemeni government asked the Saudis to bomb the Houthis: “Neutrality only applies in the event of an interstate war. In the case of Yemen, it's different because the origin of the war is internal and the Yemeni government asked Saudi Arabia to come and help them against the Houthis so it doesn't fall strictly under the law of neutrality." https://amp.dw.com/en/is-switzerland-right-to-prevent-the-delivery-of-ammunition-to-ukraine/a-61597284
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Jun 1, 2022 15:04
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Belarusian armed forces undergoing combat readiness check. According to General staff "working out issues of creating military grouping on the one of tactical directions" Imagine Russian military forces, but even worse trained, equipped, and morale in the toilet. Yeah, Belarus is that army.
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Jun 1, 2022 15:04
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Willo567 posted:I had a question on the MSLR and HIMARS the U.S. is sending Ukraine. The U.S. said it had assurances from Ukraine that it wouldn't be used to strike into Russia, but I thought that these types of weapon systems couldn't reach Russia? Ukraine and Russia share a long land border (and parts of it from Ukrainian side are under Ukrainian control). You could probably reach Russia with bow and arrow.
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Jun 1, 2022 15:05
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I actually don't think the US is worried about Ukraine hitting Russia per se. Ukraine has already attacked military targets in Russia, such as the helicopter strike on that fuel depot. We just want to avoid Ukraine lobbing the equivalent of cruise missiles at targets in Moscow and St. Petersburg. Basically, the US believes that Ukraine does not require such capabilities to secure its defense, and Ukraine seems to agree (or at least accede). Edit: Breaking: Russia decries Ukrainian child-soldiers attacking the Motherland with "large projectiles capable of crushing a man's skull." Ynglaur fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Jun 1, 2022 |
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Jun 1, 2022 15:05
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HIMARS couldn't hit Moscow if you parked them in Sumi.
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Jun 1, 2022 15:06
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CommieGIR posted:Imagine Russian military forces, but even worse trained, equipped, and morale in the toilet. May also be Putin pushing belarus to get involved again as the Donbass offensives not going well. Other than taking over burned out villages.
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Jun 1, 2022 15:11
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Ynglaur posted:I actually don't think the US is worried about Ukraine hitting Russia per se. Ukraine has already attacked military targets in Russia, such as the helicopter strike on that fuel depot. We just want to avoid Ukraine lobbing the equivalent of cruise missiles at targets in Moscow and St. Petersburg. Basically, the US believes that Ukraine does not require such capabilities to secure its defense, and Ukraine seems to agree (or at least accede). Yeah, that's what I specifically meant. I already know that Ukraine has attacked military targets in Russia, but the targets were near the border right?
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Jun 1, 2022 15:15
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Belarusian armed forces undergoing combat readiness check. According to General staff "working out issues of creating military grouping on the one of tactical directions" My distinct impression is they've been doing make-work nonsense for months with no seeming purpose except to serve as an excuse to Putin why they can't join the war.
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Jun 1, 2022 15:17
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Was reading articles about the Swiss arms industry, and found this from *February 21st*
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Jun 1, 2022 15:18
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Alctel posted:I would like him to post more about the craziness that is the border areas - he said it was just crawling with war profiteers etc. Those kind of areas where the normal rules breakdown have always been fascinating to me He can make rules-abiding posts here, or you can ask him to share his social stuff from war zone in a more relaxed sub-forum, perhaps TFR or C-SPAM.
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Jun 1, 2022 15:41
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Belarusian armed forces undergoing combat readiness check. According to General staff "working out issues of creating military grouping on the one of tactical directions" I can't imagine that Lukashenka has been dithering this entire time, and then suddenly decides "Oh ok let's go full steam ahead with this insane plan!" I mean, even Putin publicly pressuring him hasn't done that, so it feels like yet another bluff. If Russia was a paper tiger, Belarus is a one-ply toilet paper one.
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Jun 1, 2022 15:41
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Omon Ra posted:"Switzerland's wartime arms sales amounted to some 900 million francs between 1940 and 1944, when the trade was halted under pressure from the Allies. Of this, two-thirds went to Germany and part of the rest to its ally, Italy." (https://www.nytimes.com/1997/05/29/world/new-records-show-the-swiss-sold-arms-worth-millions-to-nazis.html) During World War 2, Switzerland was entirely bordered by Nazi Germany which included annexed Austria, Nazi Occupied France, Vichy France, and Fascist Italy. e: Forgot about the martial might and large ports and commerce network of Liechtenstein NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Jun 1, 2022 |
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Jun 1, 2022 15:43
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Seth Pecksniff posted:I can't imagine that Lukashenka has been dithering this entire time, and then suddenly decides "Oh ok let's go full steam ahead with this insane plan!" He is sweating bullets trying to make it look like he's perpetually getting ready knowing that if he says "no" then Putin takes him out, and if he says "go" then his own people will. So it's a constant stream of "Yes Mr. Putin, almost ready! Boris forgot to refuel the tank so just waiting on a new fuel can, but after that, we're starting to do engine checks on the tank for sure!" Rad Russian fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Jun 1, 2022 |
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Jun 1, 2022 15:53
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Why is there such a prevalent focus in this thread on Germany and specifically its new leader's personal lack of action? Would these weapons deliveries be particularly large in quantity, or are they otherwise going to stem the Russian advances in the east? Or is the moral opposition to Sholtz related to the EU usage of Russian gas?
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Jun 1, 2022 15:54
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hey Ive seen this one before https://ria.ru/20220601/vyplaty-1792372214.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_of_Honour_of_the_German_Mother
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Jun 1, 2022 15:57
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E Depois do Adeus posted:Why is there such a prevalent focus in this thread on Germany and specifically its new leader's personal lack of action? Would these weapons deliveries be particularly large in quantity Large in quantity, probably not. But in terms of quality, Germany produces some of the finest machines in the world. Its a nation of engineers.
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Jun 1, 2022 15:58
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The east continues to be an insane meat grinder https://twitter.com/NeilPHauer/status/1531996440976826369 https://twitter.com/KyivPost/status/1531974933533835265
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Jun 1, 2022 15:59
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Antigravitas posted:Poland has been the recipient of massive transfer payments for decades, and all they have to show for it are "LGBT free zones", several dead women because they are denied even life-saving abortions, and a full-speed slide into Orbanist or Putinist autocracy. Poland used the funding from the EU and other countries to develop into one of the largest economies in the EU and the biggest one by far in the region. It thus became an extremely important market for the western economies and a supplier of anything from workforce to tech, manufacturing and IT. Your summary of the country is super lovely and I say this as a person very critical of the current ruling party and its policies towards minorities, emigrants and Orban - who, to their credit, is being cut out of the narrative, as is their recent flirt with the European far-right. It’s a morally conservative country full of people voting that way because they went through a hellish conversion from kleptosocialism to capitalism and paid a huge social price and many feel that debt has not been paid off. Telling Poland to gently caress off to Orban, an outright Russian ally, is bullshit.
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Jun 1, 2022 16:24
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E Depois do Adeus posted:Why is there such a prevalent focus in this thread on Germany and specifically its new leader's personal lack of action? Would these weapons deliveries be particularly large in quantity, or are they otherwise going to stem the Russian advances in the east? Or is the moral opposition to Sholtz related to the EU usage of Russian gas? Because it’s failing the expectations set out for it by a greater extent than pretty much any other state supporting Ukraine. It really doesn’t help that one of the 3 ruling parties is keen on bothsidesing this.
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Jun 1, 2022 16:31
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E Depois do Adeus posted:Why is there such a prevalent focus in this thread on Germany and specifically its new leader's personal lack of action? Would these weapons deliveries be particularly large in quantity, or are they otherwise going to stem the Russian advances in the east? Or is the moral opposition to Sholtz related to the EU usage of Russian gas? Germany's by far the most powerful EU country in economic and political terms, and one of the biggest arms exporter in the world. They should be leading this but instead...
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Jun 1, 2022 16:32
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FishBulbia posted:hey Ive seen this one before Probably a more direct antecedent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Heroine
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Jun 1, 2022 16:34
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Mokotow posted:Your summary of the country is super lovely Yes, absolutely, but not any more lovely than all the other Twitter-tier dumbshit vomited into this thread. Like the post my post was a response to. Telling Orban's closest ally in the EU to gently caress off is absolutely correct in any case. I don't buy for a second that Poland is going to stop shielding Hungary from consequences.
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Jun 1, 2022 16:42
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FishBulbia posted:hey Ive seen this one before So is that white people only or anyone? Seth Pecksniff posted:I can't imagine that Lukashenka has been dithering this entire time, and then suddenly decides "Oh ok let's go full steam ahead with this insane plan!" Belarus letting Russia to hang on this has been hilarious aphid_licker fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Jun 1, 2022 |
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Jun 1, 2022 17:30
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E Depois do Adeus posted:Why is there such a prevalent focus in this thread on Germany and specifically its new leader's personal lack of action? Would these weapons deliveries be particularly large in quantity, or are they otherwise going to stem the Russian advances in the east? Or is the moral opposition to Sholtz related to the EU usage of Russian gas? In my case it's a combination of the following (pick and mix for what other EU citizens might think): 1) Germany and France are considered the "motors" of the EU by virtue of their size, economy and political weight. Especially since the UK left. It makes sense that you would expect them to spearhead any efforts re: EU foreign policy. In that sense ti's disappointing that the EU institutions appear to be so much more proactive than Germany, which is seen to be "slowing down" EU action. 2) German politics went all-in on Russian energy dependency. To the point of shutting down nuclear energy and lobbying to have gas labeled as "green" energy. They made their bed and now they're lying in it. 3) Germany often tries to profile itself as the "rational" actor. The whole obsession with the "Schwarze Nul" during the 2008 financial crisis etc. It's extraordinarily grating for them to try and hold on to such economic "rational" arguments when people are literally getting bombed because their country had the audacity to desire joining the EU. they have the resources to help Ukraine, so why the gently caress aren't they? It seems to me they're trying to "not rock the boat too hard, let's all go back to friendly business dealings with Russia as soon as this little kerfuffle is over" but it rubs me the wrong way. 4) Germany literally has human dignity as the guiding principle of their nation (article 1 of the constitution, even!) but war crimes don't spur them into action? 5) Scholz is trying to keep up Merkel's legacy of being a stable, calming, balancing force in Europe but at least Merkel (for all her faults) had an idealistic worldview at times when it matters. See the "Wir Schaffen das" attitude during the refugee crisis. where is that leadership in Europe's time of need?
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Jun 1, 2022 17:52
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