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Sekenr posted:As for russian oil money, it is very important to stop the cashflow, neverheless remember that what use are euros if you can't buy anything with them? Everyone in the world accepts Euros. You can buy stuff from India and China just fine with Euros.
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Jun 1, 2022 17:58
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US has decided to give Ukraine HIMARS (4 systems so far). The US has required and received Ukraine’s assurances that Ukraine will not use HIMARS to strike Russian land. Training will take 3 weeks or so for operators, possibly more for maintainers. Source: The US DOD is doing a press conference right now.
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Jun 1, 2022 18:32
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mlmp08 posted:US has decided to give Ukraine HIMARS (4 systems so far). The US has required and received Ukraine’s assurances that Ukraine will not use HIMARS to strike Russian land. Training will take 3 weeks or so for operators, possibly more for maintainers. Presumably the training started 4 weeks ago and they're rolling across the border now
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Jun 1, 2022 18:36
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Does it count as hitting Russian land if there is a tank or jet plane between the warhead and the ground itself? Asking for a friend.
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Jun 1, 2022 18:39
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NTRabbit posted:Presumably the training started 4 weeks ago and they're rolling across the border now Well, if you assume the press briefer is lying right this moment, maybe. The DOD rep says that 4x HIMARS were pre-positioned in Europe in order to enable training as soon as authorized. He did not say that training is complete. He said about 3 weeks of training remain plus a couple days for movement across the border.
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Jun 1, 2022 18:41
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https://twitter.com/valerieinsinna/status/1532048779750387712?s=21&t=rHrnXRwyfFEN9kHT2Lepkw
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Jun 1, 2022 18:46
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Hump day kind of rough this week. https://twitter.com/markgaleotti/status/1531956066451394577 https://twitter.com/yarotrof/status/1532034494055731201
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Jun 1, 2022 18:48
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FishBulbia posted:The east continues to be an insane meat grinder Unless Ukraine is throwing their hundreds of thousands of recent conscripts into this immediately I don't see how this lasts for any length of time. That's such a huge number of wounded and killed.
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Jun 1, 2022 18:51
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Hump day kind of rough this week. I wonder what it's like to look people in the eyes and tell such an absurd and obvious lie that just spits on so many people.
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Jun 1, 2022 18:53
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mlmp08 posted:Well, if you assume the press briefer is lying right this moment, maybe. What are 4x HIMARS going to do in a theatre where you need like 100 of them? They'll do some photo op where they launch a bunch of missiles that blow up some Russian conscripts before we hear about how 1000 more Ukranians are KIA, MIA or Wounded while the Russians gain another 10-20km or blow up another village. Russian can afford insane casualties and still keep going as long as their artillery and airforce is operational. Once you gently caress up Territorial Defence or the army it doesn't take much training to rape and terrorize civilians in occupied territory while they round up women and children and send them to Siberia. This is horseshit. Ukraine is losing this war and they're gonna get partitioned. Kraftwerk fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Jun 1, 2022 |
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Jun 1, 2022 18:57
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Ikasuhito posted:I wonder what it's like to look people in the eyes and tell such an absurd and obvious lie that just spits on so many people. If you remember the notorious Iraqi Defense minister, he was interviewed after the war. When it was clear that Saddam was no longer in control over him, he basically just shrugged his shoulders and said "well what else could I say?"
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Jun 1, 2022 18:57
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Bashez posted:Unless Ukraine is throwing their hundreds of thousands of recent conscripts into this immediately I don't see how this lasts for any length of time. That's such a huge number of wounded and killed. I mean that is exactly where those guys are going
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Jun 1, 2022 18:59
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In fact, people are being born in the units and due to a mathematical error in fabric of reality the casualties are in the negatives!
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Jun 1, 2022 19:00
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Antigravitas posted:Yes, absolutely, but not any more lovely than all the other Twitter-tier dumbshit vomited into this thread. Like the post my post was a response to. This is your take and you're complaining about twitter-tier dumbshits? Yes, Poland shielding Hungary was very bad, though the current conflict seems to be prying them apart, at least on this issue. But Germany is actively shielding the Russians from the consequences of their barbarous, genocidal invasion of Ukraine. It was Germany's Ostpolitik, and the corruption of the majority of its political elite, as well as the total neglect of its own defense capability, which convinced Putin he could get away with this invasion in the first place. It was Germany's deliberate decision to tie its energy needs to Russia which has led to the billions of dollars flowing directly from Germany into Putin's pocket. The single most impactful sanction that Europe could impose, the stoppage of Russian gas, has been shown by multiple credible analyses to be expensive but affordable for Germany, but it's been dragging its feet, clearly hoping the Ukraine would surrender before it had to do anything too disruptive to industry. You're in no position to complain about human rights in Poland or Hungary while your country makes excuses and waffles as the Russians flatten entire cities and fill up mass graves.
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Jun 1, 2022 19:03
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aphid_licker posted:I mean that is exactly where those guys are going Yeah. This is becoming a WWI type conflict and both sides are incurring massive losses. Still, even at 700 a day it will take years for one side to run out of manpower.
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Jun 1, 2022 19:04
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https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1532054888544444416 https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/01/u-k-seeks-u-s-approval-to-send-rocket-system-to-ukraine-00036328 quote:British Prime Minister Boris Johnson spoke with Biden about the transfer of the U.S.-made M270 Multiple Launch Rocket Systems on Wednesday morning, to be followed by a discussion between U.K. Foreign Secretary Liz Truss and Secretary of State Antony Blinken on Thursday morning, the person familiar with the schedule said. The U.S. must officially approve the move due to export regulations, though the Biden administration is near certain to give the green light. And, though grain of salt as I don't really know the source. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/germany-to-deliver-iris-t-slm-advanced-air-defense-system-to-ukraine quote:However, the German news agency Tagesspiegel reported Wednesday that Germany will send Ukraine “four MARS II multiple rocket launchers from the Krauss-Maffei-Wegmann armaments group from its own stocks.”
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Jun 1, 2022 19:06
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Bashez posted:Unless Ukraine is throwing their hundreds of thousands of recent conscripts into this immediately I don't see how this lasts for any length of time. That's such a huge number of wounded and killed. A consistent rate like that since the start of the war, 100 dead and 500 wounded per day, would mean that Ukraine has 10k dead and 50k wounded. The wounded number is on the higher end, but the number of the dead would be middle-ish for how much Ukraine has lost according to US estimates. It’s a lot of death and suffering, but in statistical terms for this war it’s not especially remarkable. And it makes sense, you can only pack so many people into the small area where the bulk of fighting is happening right now. A different question though is what’s the real number today, since this figure could have been both played up for public pressure, and played down for domestic morale. Edit: Of course Orban does this. https://twitter.com/kyivindependent/status/1532061679735156736 cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Jun 1, 2022 |
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Jun 1, 2022 19:13
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Deltasquid posted:In my case it's a combination of the following (pick and mix for what other EU citizens might think): Hey now, Macron is a busy man Those totally spontaneous photos won't make themselves
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Jun 1, 2022 19:32
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Okay guys, we celebrated too early. Moskva was claimed to have sunken in April but there have been no losses after March.
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Jun 1, 2022 19:42
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Kraftwerk posted:1000 more Ukranians are KIA, MIA or Wounded while the Russians gain another 10-20km or blow up another village. I did not realize you had a crystal ball, or in a position to be aware of Ukrainian daily casualties. Good to know. quote:Russian can afford insane casualties and still keep going as long as their artillery and airforce is operational. No they really cannot, they cannot replace the men they are losing unless they mobilize the population for war; and they cannot do this for a number of reasons, or they would have done it already. Incidentally Russia is losing tanks, AFVs, and aircraft it literally cannot replace because the manufacture of these things relies on embargoed products from the West So even if the Russians could politically get away with mobilization, they do not have anything but 1950s and 1960s equipment to give these mobilized troops. quote:This is horseshit. Ukraine is losing this war and they're gonna get partitioned. I do not think you have been paying attention to what has actually happened in this war to-date if you really believe this.
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Jun 1, 2022 19:56
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All I know is I can't tell what the end result will be. Thinking it's remarkable people are so certain of an outcome either way.
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Jun 1, 2022 20:06
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d64 posted:All I know is I can't tell what the end result will be. Thinking it's remarkable people are so certain of an outcome either way. I'd say, objectively, Ukraine is "winning" because if we look at a map of Russian controlled territory from March and compare it to now, there's an entire front that's vanished. Currently Russia is gaining ground on 1 front and losing or stalemated on 2 others. War is chaos, any and all of this can change in a week or a month, but generally an attacker who controls less of the defender's territory as time goes on is definitely not winning. Ukraine is taking bad losses in soldiers and especially civilians, but we haven't seen a war like this in a very long time. No one is used to it, and with modern economies and militaries, no one really knows what a developed nation can take. If Ukraine can keep getting soldiers out there they have a good chance of winning, most of NATO will keep footing the bill until one side gives. Russia might be kept afloat as a nation with their oil exports but they are already running out of spare parts for tech they need to keep the war going, no amount of money will fix that.
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Jun 1, 2022 20:15
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ZombieLenin posted:I did not realize you had a crystal ball, or in a position to be aware of Ukrainian daily casualties. Good to know. It's hard to say how it's really going without having an actual complete picture. Retreating from a few towns doesn't have to matter if the overall force is getting stronger, but who the hell knows. I would've been more optimistic if we had hundreds of M1s rolling across the Polish border now and dozens of F-16s getting ready for handover, instad of bickering over single-digit number of equipment.
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Jun 1, 2022 20:22
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mobby_6kl posted:That's what Zelensky apparently said. Of course it could be over/understated deliberately, or be true only for a specific instance of time. Russians are nowhere near 10-20km daily advance rate. You must be thinking of the daily casualty number, which is bad news, but not doomposting level of bad.
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Jun 1, 2022 20:27
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d64 posted:All I know is I can't tell what the end result will be. Thinking it's remarkable people are so certain of an outcome either way. Only one outcome is certain: war sucks. Shame on us, and I mean a very wide definition of 'us', that we let things come to this point. I wish we as a mankind and as Europe could grow up enough that in future we will not tolerate more dictators who shoot down airliners and poison door knobs and underpants. Or dictators in general. But here we are, negotiating with Orban and Erdoğan over their tantrums and begging for Xi to say something 
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Jun 1, 2022 20:31
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Liking this av/post combo
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Jun 1, 2022 20:34
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Saladman posted:Everyone in the world accepts Euros. You can buy stuff from India and China just fine with Euros. Its not about euros as currency. Unless its a government deal which overrides everything else you pay via banks. China banks like everybody else are wary of russia transactions to not get hosed by USA treasury and EU equivalent, you either need a bank who does no business with EUSA or new compliance department to verify that poo poo aint illegal and still no guarantees if US treasury feels otherwise. China at least doest seem to feel any urge breaking EU and USA weapon restrictions.
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Jun 1, 2022 20:35
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mobby_6kl posted:Retreating from a few towns doesn't have to matter if the overall force is getting stronger, but who the hell knows. I mean, in all due respect, none of the frontline reporting has really given cause for optimism about this, at least from what I've seen. Neil Hauer's returned from Ukraine, likely to be a bit more open about what he saw, worth keeping an eye on for the next day or two. https://twitter.com/NeilPHauer/status/1531744456633982983
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Jun 1, 2022 20:38
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Kraftwerk posted:This is horseshit. Ukraine is losing this war and they're gonna get partitioned. No they aren't. It seems like you periodically post a poorly supported doomer take, and when people try to explain why you're wrong you hide a while and then post basically the same doomer take again. What are you trying to get out of this, exactly? 
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Jun 1, 2022 20:50
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https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1532048338127933442?s=20&t=CdFDkGrQMdlK2j68_h9GBA German IRIS AA missiles to be delayed for months as they will be shipped new missiles manufactured by Diehl instead of sending missiles from German stockpiles. More foot dragging by Germany go no one’s surprise. True leadership in the EU by Scholz. (Also, I’m apparently too dumb to make tweets appear in the post while on mobile and probably in general.) Edit: Never mind. It worked.
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Jun 1, 2022 20:57
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SmokingFrog0641 posted:https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1532048338127933442?s=20&t=CdFDkGrQMdlK2j68_h9GBA I know I'm not the first person to say this, but dafuq is wrong with this rear end in a top hat?
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Jun 1, 2022 20:59
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sean10mm posted:No they aren't. I’m not trying to get anything out of it. I’m just deeply frustrated with the single digit heavy weapons support from the west and the hair splitting and teeth pulling about even that much token support. People are dying and the Russians are achieving their strategic objectives at a gradual and expensive pace. There are posters in this very thread who have said that if things start getting indefensible at Sieverodonetsk that the situation for the Ukranian army will start to get tense. Now if you told me the US was sending 50-100 MLRS systems like the HiMars and some sort of extra fixed wing aircraft deliveries were coming I would be saying a completely different story. Instead what I’m seeing is that both sides are taking casualties and Ukraine is losing ground to a reinvigorated Russian war machine. I’m just not seeing much cause for hope because the arms shipments are a trickle rather than the torrent necessary to maintain operations at the scale that they’re taking place right now. Again it seems information is trickling in that Russian aircraft are able to fly in and do strike missions on Ukranian ground forces and they aren’t being too heavily impacted by AA missiles or the threats of other fighters intercepting them. The Artillery is doing the work and wrecking defensive positions. I would not be surprised if the ammo dumps are cooking off with those strikes too which further reduces the ability to launch stingers or javelins at the advancing forces. If I’m getting anything out of it it’s just venting how frustrating it is to watch all the people who can provide Ukraine with the tools it needs continuing to only do the token minimum for politics purposes while the strategic situation is rapidly deteriorating. 4x HIMARS isn’t gonna cut it. Believing that will change anything for Ukraine is like thinking King Tigers and ME262s will stop the allies in WW2. Maybe the ME262 is fearsome and did some serious damage to allied bombers but Berlin was still a wasteland because it was too little too late. These weapons should’ve been coming in the moment Ukraine began to prove it could hold Kiev and Kharkiv. I mean all the major arms manufacturers and players who should be supplying Ukraine have daily phone chats with Russian military officials and I would not be surprised if they're literally colluding to decide just how much is too much for Ukraine before Russia taps the nuclear sign again like the Simpsons bus driver. With the way support is going now, they're giving only bite sized deliveries in such quantities and capabilities that the Russians can still win the war, albeit with enormous casualties. I'll be happy if this latest Donetsk offensive plays out like the Brusilov offensive and Russia runs out of gas before they get rolled. Hopefully that's all this is. Kraftwerk fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Jun 1, 2022 |
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Jun 1, 2022 21:10
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sean10mm posted:I know I'm not the first person to say this, but dafuq is wrong with this rear end in a top hat? At this point, I think Shultz is actually a bought man. At best, he simply does not care if Russia conquers its neighbors so long as that neighbor isn't a country that starts with "G" and ends with "many".
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Jun 1, 2022 21:19
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That's great news about the HIMARS, but why do countries (especially the US) keep announcing exactly what equipment they're providing to Ukraine? Is it just a "hey look at how much we're supporting?" It seems like terrible opsec to announce to Russia what equipment they're going to be fighting against in a couple weeks. I guess there's not much Russia can do about it. And maybe it's showing them that they can't just roll across borders and take what they want without a global response?
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Jun 1, 2022 21:21
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Henrik Zetterberg posted:That's great news about the HIMARS, but why do countries (especially the US) keep announcing exactly what equipment they're providing to Ukraine? Is it just a "hey look at how much we're supporting?" It seems like terrible opsec to announce to Russia what equipment they're going to be fighting against in a couple weeks. It might be the “boil the frog strategy”. Announce 4 HIMARS systems shipped, sit out the Russian meltdown, quietly fly in another 40. What’s Russian going to melt down about then, that there’s more of the thing? Edit: Hot on the heels of this, Predator drones with Hellfire missiles for Ukraine. https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/exclusive-us-plans-sell-armed-drones-ukraine-coming-days-sources-2022-06-01/ cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Jun 1, 2022 |
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Jun 1, 2022 21:23
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Henrik Zetterberg posted:That's great news about the HIMARS, but why do countries (especially the US) keep announcing exactly what equipment they're providing to Ukraine? Is it just a "hey look at how much we're supporting?" It seems like terrible opsec to announce to Russia what equipment they're going to be fighting against in a couple weeks. Announcing exactly what your country is providing is a way of boosting morale and also signaling support. If Estonia sends 100 whatevers and Croatia donates 52 thingies that functions as propaganda in Ukraine's favor, even if it's telling Russia what's being sent. It also puts some peer pressure on other EU/NATO members to provide more support because if the Baltics are sending a bunch of stuff it looks pretty bad that Germany isn't! etc I guess it's possible that there's stuff being sent secretly too I dunno.
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Jun 1, 2022 21:25
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Henrik Zetterberg posted:That's great news about the HIMARS, but why do countries (especially the US) keep announcing exactly what equipment they're providing to Ukraine? Is it just a "hey look at how much we're supporting?" It seems like terrible opsec to announce to Russia what equipment they're going to be fighting against in a couple weeks. The point is for it to be aligned with how back channel talks are going between the US and Russia and avoid unnecessary escalation between two nuclear powers.
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Jun 1, 2022 21:25
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Henrik Zetterberg posted:That's great news about the HIMARS, but why do countries (especially the US) keep announcing exactly what equipment they're providing to Ukraine? Is it just a "hey look at how much we're supporting?" It seems like terrible opsec to announce to Russia what equipment they're going to be fighting against in a couple weeks. That's actually what's keeping me optimistic - logically not all transactions are being made public, and I'd expect Ukraine to be receiving a lot more behind the scenes. What we're being informed about is probably just a sample.
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Jun 1, 2022 21:27
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Henrik Zetterberg posted:That's great news about the HIMARS, but why do countries (especially the US) keep announcing exactly what equipment they're providing to Ukraine? Is it just a "hey look at how much we're supporting?" It seems like terrible opsec to announce to Russia what equipment they're going to be fighting against in a couple weeks. Those 4 are just the first set, there will be more, and people have to be trained to use those HIMARS properly, once trained though, they can go train more people as well so you can expand from there.
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Jun 1, 2022 21:28
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Saladman posted:Everyone in the world accepts Euros. You can buy stuff from India and China just fine with Euros. Those Euros are in a frozen account in the ECB. They dont pay with cash.
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Jun 1, 2022 21:33
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