|
I always like to start with tire pressures, start at factory recommended or whatever you're happy running then adjust at least 2psi at a time on the front or rear to adjust the balance. Stealing from another thread because I couldn't remember without my cheat sheet:quote:So if you start from stock, increasing rear tire pressure will increase grip on that end and shift the balance towards understeer. Also echoing more front camber, there's very few cars that don't improve with 3-4 degrees of negative front camber.
|
#
?
May 7, 2022 11:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 18, 2024 00:36 |
|
|
Thanks guys, I’ll start with firming up the rear bar and playing with tire pressures since it’s free. I may look into a stiffer rear spring. In stock form, the front is a bit softer than the rear, I think because of motion ratio. But my coilovers are 8k front and 6k rear, and they aren’t different for sedan or wagon. They probably do this to keep it safe. Based on what I’m doing and the thiccer butt on the wagon I might do a 7k or 8k ear spring, unfortunately I think the shocks would need a revalve for this. The diff might be too stiff as well. To change it you have to take it out of the carrier and take it apart. You can add or remove preload springs (which changes the base amount of lock) or change how the plates interleave so that fewer are in contact (which changes how much it locks up under load). You can also change the arrangement of spider gear pinion so it locks under accel or accel and decel and how much. TheBacon posted:I don’t have any advice or input but man you can’t post all that and not include a pic of a track wagon, I applaud you goon Freshly washed but lovely lighting.  And a friend of mine is a professional drone pilot, he got some awesome chase footage of two laps from my last track day. Watch for fireballs at 0:53 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lw6Rk9AsdIw Edit: bushings. The car has (fresh) stock bushings except for a whiteline ALK which gives it more caster. I’m trying to keep it somewhat comfy as it is my summer daily. I’ll also try more front camber. I can only get 2 degrees as is with the top hats full in; will need to open up the slots for the knuckles in the coilovers. i own every Bionicle fucked around with this message at 21:25 on May 7, 2022 |
|
#
?
May 7, 2022 21:18
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2022 21:44
|
|
|
8/6 is far from ideal spring rates, yes due to motion ratio. The rear suspension has much more leverage over the springs and you would actually want something more like 8-10k back there. If the rear motion ratio is 0.75:1 (I don't know the actual number but I'm sure it's on legacygt.com somewhere and could be higher) that gives you a rear wheel rate of like 3.5k. Because wheel rate is spring rate x motion ratio squared. Pretty common for coilover companies to just spec 8/6 for literally everything without paying any attention to suspension geo. For cars with struts all around that usually works fine but then you get something like subaru rear multilink and uh, not so much.
jamal fucked around with this message at 03:54 on May 8, 2022 |
|
#
?
May 8, 2022 00:41
|
|
|
I love the track wagon. Would the coilovers work with crash bolts for extra camber? If so you could use them to dial in street camber then max the top hats out at the track. Idk how stiff before the rear shocks need revalving but generally there will be a range they work in.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2022 01:37
|
|
|
Thanks for the kind words and advice everyone. I do appreciate it.jamal posted:8/6 is far from ideal spring rates, yes due to motion ratio. The rear suspension has much more leverage over the springs and you would actually want something more like 8-10k back there. If the rear motion ratio is 0.75:1 (I don't know the actual number but I'm sure it's on legacygt.com somewhere and could be higher) that gives you a rear wheel rate like 3.5k. Because wheel rate is spring rate x motion ratio squared. Pretty common for coilover companies to just spec 8/6 for literally everything without paying any attention to suspension geo. For cars with struts all around that usually works fine but then you get something like subaru rear multilink and uh, not so much. This is an excellent point and I’m sure you are right. The GR WRX which has a similar rear motion ratio gets 8k/8k by default from Fortune. So I think they just didn’t bother to put in the time developing it on this car, given how few people track their Legacies. That’s kind of disappointing considering the fact that the product seems to work well otherwise and is well regarded. honda whisperer posted:I love the track wagon. Would the coilovers work with crash bolts for extra camber? If so you could use them to dial in street camber then max the top hats out at the track. So it actually has the stock front hardware (including eccentric bolts) holding the knuckles to the coilovers, but I was disappointed that they actually slotted the upper bolt holes for some reason which means that the eccentrics don’t do anything when you turn them. With as much negative camber as the slots/eccentrics would allow, and the top hats at 0, I could get 0 degrees front camber. The top hats go out a degree or so, so if I slot the coilovers so that the camber is 0 when the top hats are all the way out, that should allow me -3 or -4 degrees with the top hats all the way in. Side note: I bought this thing Tenhulzen Automotive 2-Wheel Alignment Tool - All-in-one (Camber/Caster/Toe Plates) - Made in USA https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00PKI0YSU/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_1G7PNVK6ET33H7VQSZEW and it works really well! Highly recommended. Measurements are repeatable and seem pretty accurate, I’ve been able to align the car multiple times after changes. I have done string alignments in the past and this is a lot quicker to set up and easier to measure.
|
|
#
?
May 9, 2022 01:55
|
|
|
Just talked to Fortune and when I told them that I am tracking the car they recommended 8k rear springs, and that I can go up or down up to 2k and not need a revalve. So I ordered a set of 8k rear springs. Thanks for the advice guys. Hopefully I can get them on before the next track day.
|
|
#
?
May 9, 2022 16:11
|
|
|
Cool that should help a lot. Also consider more front camber. You could stick a standard m14 bolt in the upper front holes, like the same part as the lower bolt, and that would get you some more adjustment there. Assuming you have the tire clearance, adjusting with the bolts as far as you can go and then adding whatever you need with top hats is marginally better from a geo standpoint because you're not increasing steering axis inclination as much.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 16:42
|
|
|
Today is the first track day of the year, and since overhauling the rear subframe. Stiffer springs and no rear bar too, feels good.  I got the Spent my Hood Strut Money on Brake Pads blues
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 21:38
|
|
|
Lol vise grip strut screams I have my priorities in the correct order and these gas tubes are overpriced.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 03:31
|
|
|
I've done some Lemons races, but I did my first track day with an instructor, in my street car, a couple weeks ago. My 500 treadwear Eagle F1 all-seasons did surprisingly well. Overheated a bit towards the end of each session but nothing unpredictable. Already signed up for another, and scored some pristine 18" wheels to throw real rubber on. I'm hooked. I've got Mountune's B7 intake kit installed, with the bigger intercooler and tune. Car ran fantastic, no overheat issues in 86f weather, no loss of power as things got hot. 
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2022 23:23
|
|
|
Update on wagon springs: I swapped from the 6k rears to 8k, and had to adjust the ride height 16mm to compensate for the extra spring rate. This is a far more appropriate spring for this vehicle. It is actually a lot more comfortable, bumps that I used to slow down for can now be taken at normal speed and are less jarring. I think that the car was hitting the bump stops more often than it should have, and the unbalanced rates meant that bumps would upset the car a lot more. With the 6k springs the highest I could make the rear was a little less than 1” lower which means it wasn’t right. Gonna add some more camber next for the next track day!
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2022 14:37
|
|
|
In my ongoing journey into becoming the sort of person who puts car parts on his car, I’ve recently started autocrossing my ND2 Miata with the Golden Gate Lotus Club. It‘s a boatload of fun and I’m having a blast, but I know that one of the ways I learn best is by doing and then reflecting. It's cool that I get instant feedback on a lap from the timer, but I’d really like a way to sit down the next day and really compare runs - I took this turn on this line at this speed with this steering angle, and I can see the car did X. On the next run I had this different speed and turning angle, and the car did Y. On this run, did I lose time in this corner or did I gain time even though it felt a bit slower? What’s the best way to start gathering that data? I understand that there’s TrackAddict, GoPros, and I have an iPhone, but it’s not a hundred percent clear to me how to start tying these things together, especially since trackaddict says they can’t guarantee support for anything after like a GoPro 4 and the current offering are 9 and 10. Also I guess I need something to record OBD2 data from my car, but that may or may not get steering input? If there’s some canonical solution that I can just throw money at so I can stop thinking about this and go back to thinking about wheels and tires and suspension, that would be neat!
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2022 03:57
|
|
|
How long have you been autocrossing? I wouldn't worry about data until at least a few seasons in and you're chasing top PAX or class wins in a competitive region. However if data is something you really want to pursue and enjoy reflecting on I've heard good things about solostorm. I've also heard to avoid cheap phone only apps that might work on a track but are horrible for autocross. It's tough to get the accuracy for speed & position on such a small course. But throttle-brake vs time which you could pull from the OBD would be really helpful I think. Again this is just what I've heard asking questions I don't use data.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2022 05:08
|
|
|
I'd go looking on the scca forums and find what the winning people are using. Or what's got a lot of information and posting about it. It may not be the best but if it's good enough and easy to learn about you'll probably get more out of that than the ideal solution. Consider also how far you want to take it and if it has enough inputs. This can get expensive quick though. I've got experience with racepak and iirc it's a can bus system and you can stack as many extra inputs as you want but you're locked into their ecosystem and it's $$$$.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2022 12:53
|
|
|
I'm working on a track car and need leveling pads for an alignment / setup. I've got a thread going here https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3937480&pagenumber=14&perpage=40 If you've got any thoughts on the best way to experience true level I'd love to hear them.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2022 03:15
|
|
|
I’ve seen people have good results with vinyl tiles as shims.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2022 04:01
|
|
|
Phone posted:I’ve seen people have good results with vinyl tiles as shims. This is what I use too, left over tiles. Two thin sheet cutting boards with some salt between as turn plates. Meh
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2022 05:54
|
|
|
I was the father who decided to take his wife and 4 month old to pikes peak today. A mistake.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2022 23:39
|
|
|
Guys who track turbo Subarus (EJ257/255), what are your typical max coolant temps you like to see? I did a track day at Thompson Sunday and had a great time but it was hot as balls and I was seeing 225 or so at a few points so I backed off. My track map is very safe; it pulls more timing and boost and adds fuel when it starts to get hot and it was definitely getting into that territory. I’m going to add some better ducting to the intercooler and radiator. For those that offered suggestions about my understeer issue, thanks. I got my front camber to about 2.9 degrees and swapped rear springs from 6k to 8k and the car turns in hard and you can rotate it with a little lift. It still pushes a bit more than stock so I think I’ll stiffen the rear bar for the next session.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2022 21:54
|
|
|
Residency Evil posted:I was the father who decided to take his wife and 4 month old to pikes peak today. I did this once when my son had just turned 1 and I convinced my wife to bring the kid out for a track day at ORP. Let's just say I feel you.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2022 22:00
|
|
|
For content, I've been having a lot of fun in the Fiesta on the track lately. Did ORP last month, Ridge Motorsport Park earlier this month, and I have Portland International Raceway on 7/1. I've done PIR on a motorcycle a few times but never in a car, where they add a chicane to the front straight. Looking forward to it. The Fiesta has a lot done to it, including a larger turbo, LSD and BBK. Here's a lap with me chasing a buddy around ORP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9S2W_I993s Here's one of my faster laps of the day at Ridge: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWJ-4oAxtL8
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2022 22:07
|
|
|
Can anybody tell me how much difference switching from a standard 50/50 glycol water mix to something like VP Stay Frosty (or distilled water and water wetter) make? My track days don’t require non-glycol coolant but I’m looking for better cooling and this is a very easy thing to try. Trying to decide if it is worth it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2022 17:15
|
|
|
Weird question - is it normal to have sore parts on your shoulders from HANS device after the race? I've always just tightened my belts "until I can't anymore" and it feels like the HANS is just kind of being a pressure point. Not sure if weird.
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2022 02:44
|
|
|
mekilljoydammit posted:Weird question - is it normal to have sore parts on your shoulders from HANS device after the race? I've always just tightened my belts "until I can't anymore" and it feels like the HANS is just kind of being a pressure point. Not sure if weird. I have this problem on my collar bones with a Schroth XLT. I broke both of them when I was young so they're balls of bone and the HANS puts a lot of pressure on them. I've heard the Necksgen doesn't have this issue, so it is worth trying different solutions if you can.
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2022 04:45
|
|
|
You could look at the different pads offered, I think Dad had some gel pads on his that helped with the pressure point issue.
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2022 13:18
|
|
|
I'll look into pads then. Just one of those things where... well that always seems like the logical amount to tighten down my belts but there were non-zero odds I was being an idiot. Oh yeah, this weekend was driver's school to get my comp license back. School day went great; went faster every session. Race day taught me lessons about increased heat making tires greasy, which took me a few laps in the race to figure out. Oops. Loving Toyo RRs compared to Hoosier R7s - where I'm at, the things providing actual feedback is an absolute godsend. They may be down on pace compared to sticker R7s, but not compared to the R7s I had.
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2022 16:39
|
|
|
If I do long stints in my race car I have bruises from my HANS, but I also bruise easy.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2022 01:08
|
|
|
i own every Bionicle posted:Can anybody tell me how much difference switching from a standard 50/50 glycol water mix to something like VP Stay Frosty (or distilled water and water wetter) make? My track days don’t require non-glycol coolant but I’m looking for better cooling and this is a very easy thing to try. Trying to decide if it is worth it. I would say that kind of stuff does help, water can absorb more heat than ethylene glycol. However I'm not sure the rate of transfer is much different, maybe slower? Thermodynamics was a long time ago. So yeah if your temps are getting too high improving heat transfer from the radiator to the air is the main way to improve that. Generally a bigger radiator doesn't specifically do this, but a bigger radiator and more water means that it takes longer for the car to start to overheat. So the way to actually speed up the transfer of the heat to the air is mainly with improving airflow through the radiator. A little ducting or a shroud going into it can help but what I consider more important is giving the air somewhere to go after it hits the radiator, and if that somewhere can be up and out of the hood you're usually getting an aero benefit as well. A turbo subaru, especially one with a top mount, is kind of in a bad place to start with because that engine bay is just getting packed with air going to the coolers and then it all has to go under the car and into the wheel wells and stuff. In conclusion, I recommend adding speed holes to your hood. But also more water is good too.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2022 02:18
|
|
|
jamal posted:I would say that kind of stuff does help, water can absorb more heat than ethylene glycol. However I'm not sure the rate of transfer is much different, maybe slower? Thermodynamics was a long time ago. So yeah if your temps are getting too high improving heat transfer from the radiator to the air is the main way to improve that. Generally a bigger radiator doesn't specifically do this, but a bigger radiator and more water means that it takes longer for the car to start to overheat. So I did some more research and remembering thermo and yeah, it will run cooler. As you said, it takes more energy to raise the temperature of one unit of water one degree than one unit of glycol. But the rate of heat transfer is proportional to the difference in temperatures between the coolant and the engine. So, assuming the same flow rate, coolant that has risen 20 degrees going through the engine is removing less heat than coolant that has risen 10 degrees. It’s the same on the radiator side, if the temperature entering the radiator is 200 and it’s exiting at 180, it’s removing less heat than coolant that is exiting at 190. Frustrating that I couldn’t find this explanation anywhere, people just said “RACECARS USE WATER BECAUSE THEY CANT SPILL SLIPPERY ANTIFREEZE ON THE TRACK” I’m also going to try a turbo blanket. I noticed that my car seemed to be overboosting, the track map is for 19 psi but I would see it jump to sometimes as high as 20.5 sometimes. I think this is because the intercooler is heatsoaking a bit. That will get some gold foil shielding, and better ducting as well.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2022 15:14
|
|
|
I think with foil tape and other heat shielding it's important to consider what way the heat is going. An intercooler is hotter than the engine bay when the car is moving, so covering it with foil/insulation probably means it gets and stays hotter if anything. Same with charge pipes and the like - the air in there is both going very fast and not getting much chance of heat transfer to the pipes and is also probably hotter than the engine bay so if anything you'd want to put little heat sinks on your ic pipes or something not a bunch of gold tape. Excessive boost is probably caused by the wastegate just not being able to flow enough. Hotter conditions should actually improve that since the charge air won't be as dense. But it's kind of common with internally gated turbos. Not a good way to fix that without like, taking out the turbo and porting the wastegate or going to an external gate (and the re-tuning that would need to go along with it). As long as it's not leaning out or hitting boost cut maybe it's fine? jamal fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Jul 5, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2022 16:05
|
|
|
Shopping for a Hans device. Never had one before. Looks like the big debate is classic Hans vs the Simpson hybrids. The one stand out upgrade for the hybrid s is it could work with a normal seat belt too. I doubt that will come up as an issue. Secondary is comfort and angle impact gains. Any thoughts?
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2022 02:06
|
|
|
Race weekend went mostly great! School day went note perfect - set a goal to hit my marks every lap of every session (that I wasn't in traffic) and did so, mostly playing with braking zones. One complex at Blackhawk Farms I don't have a good feel for but I wonder if that's just a shock issue; the car doesn't settle fast enough. Race day... could have gone better. Basically it was about 10 degrees hotter, the Toyo RRs got greasy and I didn't twig to it until a third of the way into the race... after metal to metal during a too-aggressive pass. Oops. Oh well, very light contact, not the worst that could happen, but embarrassing. Thinking I'm going to get a second set of coilovers and experiment with them - I reverse engineered some stuff (maths-wise) about the Spec MX-5 suspension package (almost exactly what's on the car) and I think I can keep the same handling balance (as measured by front roll couple percentage) and damping but scaled to stiffer springs, which is allowed in Improved Touring where I'd run with my normal org, but not with Touring which is SCCA. End up with BC coilovers rebuilt with new springs and Ohlins internals; means I need to finally get around to building the shock dyno, but I've been meaning to anyway. Also going to put ballast back in the car so it's actually legal; I think it'll help the corner weights and not hurt handling that much. Other little things are holy crap my racing shoes don't fit right, and I think I need to investigate putting one of the other seats in the car because the ultrashield doesn't do enough to hold me in place.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2022 14:07
|
|
|
honda whisperer posted:Shopping for a Hans device. Never had one before. Looks like the big debate is classic Hans vs the Simpson hybrids. I have an old, sport version from 2010, HANS collecting dust in the garage you can have if you want. It's a medium and would have to be re-certified with new straps to be legal for club racing but send me a PM if you're interested. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2022 15:21
|
|
|
That would be awesome but i just did the measurements and need a large. Thanks for the offer though.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2022 17:18
|
|
|
I've been really happy with my Schroth Flex SHR for the past 4 years, but it really hurt my collarbones until I added some extra pads on it. mekilljoydammit posted:Race day... could have gone better. Basically it was about 10 degrees hotter, the Toyo RRs got greasy and I didn't twig to it until a third of the way into the race... after metal to metal during a too-aggressive pass. Oops. Oh well, very light contact, not the worst that could happen, but embarrassing. I've been racing 944Spec for the past 2 years on 225/50-15 Toyo RRs and our common wisdom is that you don't want to be in no mans land of 33-36 psi hot. I typically shoot for 28-32 hot. You can go higher (38-40 hot) but they seem to overheat faster to me and are slower.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2022 04:26
|
|
|
I have another HPDE coming up. What do people recommend for onboard recording that's not $$$$?
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 18:21
|
|
|
gopro with a mount that doesn't vibrate like mad?
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 18:44
|
|
|
Phone posted:gopro with a mount that doesn't vibrate like mad? Since gopros cost like 400 goddamn dollars, I was hoping there would be something more purpose built for around the same cost or less.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 18:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 18, 2024 00:36 |
|
|
The purpose built stuff with automated overlay is going to be like 2x a GoPro with worse video quality. Your cheapest option will probably be a phone with TrackAddict.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 19:00
|
|