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Don't draw a Y by doing a curving road, draw a T by doing two straight lines, do the hat of the T first ThisIsJohnWayne fucked around with this message at 09:21 on Jun 2, 2022 |
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Jun 2, 2022 09:19
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Also if you want to smooth out the corner, draw a T (one road, then a perpendicual road) and then connect 45 degree cuts across the corners of the T.
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Jun 2, 2022 09:22
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OwlFancier posted:Also if you want to smooth out the corner, draw a T (one road, then a perpendicual road) and then connect 45 degree cuts across the corners of the T. It seems like you have to get very specific on where you place the little purple dots so other road pieces can connect. I made it until trying to set up a residential district before I felt completely overwhelmed, and it was the water mechanic. I had watched enough videos that I roughly understood a bunch of the other basics but oh boy is water tough
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Jun 2, 2022 15:18
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Water is in a really weird place. I think once you understand it, it’s actually pretty simple. The problem is that literally everything about it is communicated horribly/not at all so it requires several trial and error attempts before you get a system that kind of works, and it’s not clear if it does until people stop complaining about water. It feels like a good add thematically but it’s just kind of awkward now. I hope they add a good tutorial before they officially launch and maybe touch up some of the communication around it. (Like pressures never getting realistically high enough.)
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Jun 2, 2022 15:22
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And now I bring in people and everything collapses. I have 50 workers, how do I make them prioritize different jobs? Everyone is pissed because they are cold and thirsty, but no one will get on the drat bus to go to either place
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Jun 2, 2022 16:00
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Demon_Corsair posted:And now I bring in people and everything collapses. You generally directly tell them, unfortunately. The best way to do this is to reduce the number of jobs available. Don't forget that they work shifts and can be kind of lovely about getting places on time and won't stagger themselves directly (only indirectly via commuting and waiting), so instead of assuming 1/3 you should probably consider 1/4 of the workforce as available. One thing you CAN do is tell buildings where their residents should go for work (within walking distance, not sure how cars work with this mechanic). When starting out and dealing with workforce reliability, usually place a small house close enough to the town to reach the relevant other buildings, then build a heating plant further out in the other direction that they can also walk to. You have guaranteed workers for critical infrastructure, and only they get sick sucking down coal fumes. A noble sacrifice for the stability of the community! 
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Jun 2, 2022 16:16
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There's a lot of chaos and interpretation and subtlety in worker destination but a general tldr simple solution to be able to treat bus stops as people mines: Try to limit bus stops and workplaces in range of tenements. People will split evenly between the options they have in walking distance unless you adjust the % splits manually. At the start you probably want to give them one option till you understand better. E. You can manually specify destinations and it's prereq to specifying the % but this is fiddly and more worth doing after you've internalized all the workerisms and are trying to make better looking communities. People will get in the first bus they can get on with a route that satisfies their needs ex. The stops have work slots connected, or open leisure/shops/etc. This means you can't control it except by segregating your bus stops by importance. When you do this you are also segregating by worker pool if you follow the first point. A few tenements connected directly to your first bus stop should be completely dedicated to minibus direct routes to critical infrastructure like power plants, heat plants, or water plants. Minibus because the game doesn't have smart shift control so a steady drip of minibus amounts of people gives better OEE Your second bus stop can be a monster worker farm of the rest of your tenements in a given area. The goal here is to keep a general level of workers around that satisfy everything else at an acceptable OEE. You can also pull construction workers from here.
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Jun 2, 2022 16:19
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Anime Store Adventure posted:Time to crush my orphanages. THAT'S short enough to be a thread title
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Jun 2, 2022 16:28
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How does the math on jobs work? I have 209 workers available, and appox 50 job slots and not a single building is full up on staff. I feel like I'm missing something obvious. Now I am up to 10% unemployment, but still only have maybe 60% of workers in a given building? How can you be unemployed? go work at the drat shopping mall! E: For my water plant, I see the usage meter ticking up, but no bar are showing on any of the output dials? Does that mean my pipe is set up wrong? My water pump is about 4 meters above the water substation, so it should be able to flow.... Demon_Corsair fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Jun 2, 2022 |
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Jun 2, 2022 16:29
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The math on jobs is “build apartments until the jobs in the area are saturated enough to give you ~5% unemployment.” I’m sure you could try to get specific, but you may want to try and adjust your thinking away from ratios in a very specific sense. The game is not like an Anno where you can expect one field to produce 20 food which feeds exactly 300 people which is enough staff for exactly X and Y, etc. At a very high level you should be aware of some production ratios to understand if you need say, more coal for your steel mill, but beyond that it gets super fuzzy super fast. That might be unhelpful but basically if you’re finding that you don’t have people going to bus stops for work, you just aren’t saturating the local (walkable) jobs and need more people. Everything should be central enough that at that low of population, you’re basically not losing anything but the cost of a new apartment to support more people. (Sure, more food and that but it’ll be minor at that population.) I can try to do some math later to give you an idea of how “available jobs” vs “total pop” stack up in my city - but there’s just so many variables that are specific to either of our builds that I don’t know how meaningful of info it’ll be to you. Also unemployment can come from several causes, most notably if you have advanced education and need kindergartens. You can also get into death spirals of people not working because they’re sick because they’re cold, and then no one can go work the heating plant to stop people from being cold. I’d have to see your water set up to understand what’s maybe wrong there… if buildings aren’t complaining about no water, maybe it’s working and just very low demand?
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Jun 2, 2022 16:49
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E. Want to make it clearer as I think this is confusing wedged in it's current spot. The following estimations are based on a theoretical 0% unemployment measure. Workers work for 8 hours, satisfy needs for 8 hours, and sleep for 8 hours. Your absolute best utilization of population as workers is 33% instantaneous then. Any problems subtract from that: unmet needs, missing kindergarten capacity, commute eats into it sort of, they'll work 8 hours after getting there but it's still hours out of the day and time out in commute can shift their phase without ever working a shift more like a normal dysfunction. With commutes 25% instantaneous is probably a good assumed ceiling. Any dysfunction can rocket you down to 5-10% pretty easily. E. To tie back to unemployment again, dysfunction will be more directly represented in the unemployment so you'll see your unemployment go up as you have dysfunctions that skip worker shifts. Since unemployment is basically a measure of skipped worker shifts. You can still have 0% unemployment with only slots filled with 25% of your total worker measures though because of the unique way commute time works to shift work shifts around in time. zedprime fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Jun 2, 2022 |
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Jun 2, 2022 16:50
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The unemployment stats will tell you specifically why people are unemployed, but yes the big thing is generally to significantly overbuild population. 10% unemployment is a target not a failing, though once you expand you can lower that down. You want a good number of people as reserve labour, basically. If you want to you can also draw down the number of jobs in a building if you're just starting out, so they aren't trying to staff everything at max capacity when you're only using a fraction of it.
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Jun 2, 2022 17:15
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I think I need to restart without water. The game gives no real hints on why water isn't flowing and I have enough confusion anyway. Like if a building has a water connector does it need a pipe or a water substation? Both? I see a well generating water but my water substation isn't getting any, is there a height threshold that is required to make water flow? There is I think a - 0.5m elevation difference, so maybe that's it? Too much unexplained poo poo right now. I'll wait until the streamers catch up so I can learn how to do it once I have the other systems understood a bit. Lord knows it's going to be enough of a struggle to get people working enough jobs so I can get my construction industry going. I may be playing on easy, but I have the cosmonaut spirit 😂
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Jun 2, 2022 17:26
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If it has a dedicated connection it probably just takes enough water to justify its own pipe, but could be fed via a substation.
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Jun 2, 2022 17:41
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For concrete, yes, it will draw from either substation or direct pipe. The appeal of the pipe is throughput, and that drinking water is not strictly necessary at workplaces, so if you have an industrial complex you can just serve it directly without a separate building and more pipe spaghetti. Water loading stations specifically need the pipe; I cut off one of mine to see and while it did seem to get some water even after, technical services no longer recognize it as a valid source and send out trucks. Your problem with water otherwise is probably that neither wells nor purification plants pump. You want a pump on either side of the purification plant, something that's more intuitive if using surface water intakes than if wells. As for job prioritization, also remember that water and heat aren't SimCity-style "is this infrastructure connected" checks, the well or heating plant actually produces m³ of water or steam as a resource that is then moved through a pipe like it would be through a conveyor to a substation that magicks it the last 300m into a storage in each individual building where it is consumed. So if you have an hour or two hiccup during shift change, it's not good--overextended or underprovisioned lines may only be slightly over usage rate, and take a looooong time to build back up--but it's not immediately fatal.
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Jun 2, 2022 19:07
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Blowjob Overtime posted:THAT'S short enough to be a thread title Hot drat yes it is
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Jun 2, 2022 19:52
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Mandoric posted:
This was the part I was missing. I had one well work because I terraformed it up a couple meters, and the one that was almost level didn't work. Is there a good "beginners" map? I'm playing on the default flatlands, and while it is nice and flat on one side, the gravel is so far away from the border that getting both is going to be an interesting experiment in chaining construction offices. How far will trucks in construction offices drive? I'm going to be building a good stretch away from my concrete and asphalt plants. Or is it better to build new ones as you go? Is the recommended mod lists in the OP still good? Or is it better to stick with vanilla for a while.
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Jun 2, 2022 20:33
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Demon_Corsair posted:This was the part I was missing. I had one well work because I terraformed it up a couple meters, and the one that was almost level didn't work. A lot of the mods are helpful buildings that fill a missing gap, imo. None of them are turning gravel into electronics at a 1:100 ratio or anything dumb. Some, like conveyer connector towers and conveyors over roads are borderline necessary. Construction offices by default have auto-search looking for construction jobs to accept within 1 km. You can bump the auto-search up to 3 km, or manually assign them something outside of that range if necessary. You can also switch what they auto-search for, so you could make two and have one focus on roads while the other does buildings. e: If you have the window open for the construction office and hover the cursor over the building types and auto-search on/off area, it will show a yellow highlight of the radius that construction office will travel to auto-build. Blowjob Overtime fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Jun 2, 2022 |
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Jun 2, 2022 20:41
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Demon_Corsair posted:This was the part I was missing. I had one well work because I terraformed it up a couple meters, and the one that was almost level didn't work. Vanilla isn’t bad for a bit until you at least are familiar with what buildings are what and that. The mods don’t fundamentally change much, but I would personally just be a little overwhelmed if suddenly I had 300 buildings. There are some unbalanced options on the workshop, and some outdated ones (concrete that doesn’t take water, for example.) You may still want to at the very least go grab the conveyor tower ones, but that’s the only one I can think that’s almost a necessity. You can also press T to mirror stuff now too though.
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Jun 2, 2022 21:03
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Anime Store Adventure posted:Vanilla isn’t bad for a bit until you at least are familiar with what buildings are what and that. The mods don’t fundamentally change much, but I would personally just be a little overwhelmed if suddenly I had 300 buildings. There are some unbalanced options on the workshop, and some outdated ones (concrete that doesn’t take water, for example.) My mod tab for residential houses is 15 pages long
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Jun 2, 2022 21:15
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Anime Store Adventure posted:If it has a dedicated connection it probably just takes enough water to justify its own pipe, but could be fed via a substation. Generally, if a building has a pipe connection, it uses water industrially. Which means it can usually use untreated water. You will still, however, have to supply it drinking water as well via substation, as you cannot drink from the water tank connected to the concrete mixer even in glorious soviet republic. Also, you need to use pumps to build pressure. Water wells, while they will fill with water, will not actually pump water out of themselves (unless it's running downhill, I think) and will need pumps to move water out of them and into other things such as treatment plants. You also generally want to use a pump to move it out of each stage, too, to maximise throughput, as each process will eat a chunk of pressure. You also generally always want to use the largest pipes and pumps all the time.
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Jun 2, 2022 21:26
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Demon_Corsair posted:How far will trucks in construction offices drive? I'm going to be building a good stretch away from my concrete and asphalt plants. Or is it better to build new ones as you go? They'll drive forever to sources, but exactly 5km and no further to jobs. So it's definitely necessary to layer out COs as you go, but concrete/asphalt (which, remember, need workers) should only be done if you're putting up an entire new town; caches of other materials, it depends on proximity to rail/border since otherwise it's the same truck haul either way plus extra for the actual storage and loading facilities.
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Jun 2, 2022 23:14
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You can manually assign them to any job on the map they can reach, but for jobs like roads that's not great because they can only be assigned to the section of the road already connected to another road, not deeper sections that need to be constructed afterwards. Helicopter COs, of course, have no such issues, though they cannot always land at small sections.
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Jun 2, 2022 23:19
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If you go far enough, you actually can get out of manual assignment range (unless behavior differs between manually from the job and manually from the CO? I want to say I've tried both ways with a particular development I have going, or to be precise not going yet until the rail line hits.) For both standard and helo, helo just calculates it line-of-sight.
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Jun 2, 2022 23:39
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Mandoric posted:They'll drive forever to sources, but exactly 5km and no further to jobs. So it's definitely necessary to layer out COs as you go, but concrete/asphalt (which, remember, need workers) should only be done if you're putting up an entire new town; caches of other materials, it depends on proximity to rail/border since otherwise it's the same truck haul either way plus extra for the actual storage and loading facilities. Can you ship concrete and asphalt on trains? And how early is too early to start adding in rail? Can trains do distribution like you can with trucks?
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Jun 3, 2022 01:07
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Anime Store Adventure posted:You may still want to at the very least go grab the conveyor tower ones, but that’s the only one I can think that’s almost a necessity. You can also press T to mirror stuff now too though. This cannot be emphasized hard enough. Conveyors will make you go wild with anger and frustration when trying to add roads and you will understand why. Demon_Corsair posted:Can you ship concrete and asphalt on trains? No, you cannot ship either in trains, for Reasons (mainly that the concrete will harden unless it's being sloshed around by a giant rotating cone and that asphalt will cool too quickly and be too difficult to transfer). You can start doing trains Wherever, but they're Quite Expensive so I wouldn't think about them until trucks are exceeding the realistic capacity for what needs to be getting moved.
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Jun 3, 2022 01:44
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ThisIsJohnWayne posted:My mod tab for residential houses is 15 pages long Lol same. There’s tons of good mods because this game hits a weird vibe of still looking Pretty Good without being super difficult to make quality, fitting assets for, so there’s tons and tons of good poo poo out there. One thing I lament with new flashy games is how difficult it is for modders to make content that fits the quality and art style of the base game. Workers really doesn’t have that issue almost at all.
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Jun 3, 2022 03:09
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Anime Store Adventure posted:Lol same. There’s tons of good mods because this game hits a weird vibe of still looking Pretty Good without being super difficult to make quality, fitting assets for, so there’s tons and tons of good poo poo out there. One thing I lament with new flashy games is how difficult it is for modders to make content that fits the quality and art style of the base game. Workers really doesn’t have that issue almost at all. It's great. Though, last I checked, no one has made any of the SW-series or similar style diesel switchers, and that's a shame.
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Jun 3, 2022 03:27
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I gotta say once you get over the initial brain damage the game is great. I did 6 or 7 attempts at cosmonaut-ish games - trying to start with gravel and other construction-related industry paid for with dollars/rubles and then shifting to entirely self-built everything - and this seems to fit in my head better, but the first many hours of starting a new maps is basically planning and re-planning various residential and industrial areas. I have apparently sank ~130 hours into the game already - probably left it running overnight at least once though - and am still constantly making annoying mistakes like trying to cram too much in one warehouse and then having really inefficient distribution lines. Still, slowly learning the ropes and it's fun. I am playing with only some of the difficulty options enabled - I have power, fuel, water, and education enabled, but kept seasons/heating off and also haven't played with crime & justice yet. Anyway to contribute, here are some screenshots of my current attempt! Overview:  I downloaded a few island maps and this is my third attempt at this map in specific. I chose an island to really force the cosmonaut aspect more, and also to learn how shipping works. My first attempt tried to use container import which doesn't work how I thought - I assumed you could say "load 5 containers of food, 5 containers of alcohol..." etc but apparently not. I like this island map since it has a nice open area with a little mound (what will be Derp Central on the left), good coastlines nearby for ports, gravel nearby, and oil fields up on the hill. I decided to start this island with a few districts/areas that will be mostly dedicated to various purposes. Derp Central will be the big shopping mall, cinema, and other recreational stuff at a large scale, hopefully that'll work out and satisfy most people. Mount Springs is my water source, I picked a pretty awkward location that would be difficult to build around, ensuring that my water supply doesn't get polluted by nearby industry/housing. Derp Upper is the first main residential area supplying workers for the power plant and sewage treatment and a few for the oil refinery, and then the First District area will be a denser residential area to really flood the refinery with workers and potentially for the quarry once it is built. Mount Springs:  Really just a little village with a bus station, some houses, a kindergarten, water pump, and water treatment facility. It has enough workers to keep the water supply going and a bus route to Derp Upper so the people living here can go get food. This was the first area I fully built just to ensure I had solid water coming in, and it's up on a hill to make it easier to supply the rest of the island, though I assume eventually I will need additional water sources. Port/Sewage:  This time I chose to focus first on a source of income, and since the island has oil reserves I started with a harbor for shipping out bitumen and fuel. Just building the infrastructure up till now took all of my 2M dollars and 5M-6M rubles, but I think at this point I should actually be making an income if I just let the game sit, though I haven't actually shipped out anything yet. There is also a small cargo harbor and I have a small boat set up to bring in alcohol, food, clothes, and electronics, and a distribution office then sends those to Derp Upper to supply a warehouse connected to a small shopping mall. There is also a fire station + helicopter here since I have things spread out so much I was worried about fire. Derp Upper:  This is the first community that is self-sufficient, there's a small shopping mall there, a small clinic, schools, fire station, and pub. I think there are ~600-700 people living there, with microbus lines transporting workers up to the oil power plant up on the hill (top left) and down to the port & sewage treatment, and a bus line with two bigger buses to supply the oil refinery (right side). There are only enough workers to fully staff the power plant and sewage, the oil refinery tops out at maybe 50-60 workers. I think with all of the above, it's in a pretty stable configuration - the people are pretty happy though government loyalty isn't great and I have no culture buildings at all. So I started building First District which will be a denser residential area with just some basics - school and maybe a pub and a hospital. It's built around a bus station and currently the workers are getting shipped over to the refinery, eventually this area will also supply construction workers and maybe workers for the quarry/building supplies once I start building that out. There's a bus line also to bring people from First District over to Derp Upper to use the shopping mall, but this is intended to be temporary only, as eventually most of them will go to Derp Central which I will try to make into more of a commercial district. This will probably wait until after I've built my quarry area. For now the small shopping center in Derp Upper seems to be enough to handle everyone's needs, but I think once I start adding more residential buildings to First District (to supply the quarry) it'll probably overload the shopping center. So my intended next steps are roughly: 1. Build out a quarry, gravel processing, cement, asphalt, prefab, and brick area to supply construction materials 2. Expand First District with more housing. 3. Build out Derp Central with a large mall, warehouse, cinema, and other stuff for citizens. At this point I can reroute the current First District to Derp Upper bus line to instead go the shorter distance to Derp Central. 4. Expand the small cargo harbor area - the warehouse I have there now will probably be just enough to supply alcohol/food/clothes/electronics to the shopping centers in Derp Upper & Derp Central, so I will make some more small cargo harbors + warehouse + road cargo station blocks dedicated to importing other resources for construction. I have a long weekend coming so ideally I can spend at least a full day building this out more before I realize something else is not working and start fresh yet again.  Are there any recommended QOL mods? I saw a youtuber (bballjo) somehow shortcut-bulldoze stuff, is that a mod or something? In general constantly looking through the menus to switch between tools like levelling, bulldozing, building/removing roads etc is a pain and could use some improvement. I also wish that there was an eyedropper tool like in factorio so I could just hover over eg: road or building and then be able to build more of that easily without having to search through the menus to find small power transformer #3. It would also be fantastic if you could just move planned buildings, the dance of "cancel construction, cancel roads, flatten more land, re-plop the construction and roads, realize something is still off and do it all again" is a bit tiresome and really makes that initial planning take like 5x longer than it needs to. Koobze fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Jun 3, 2022 |
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Jun 3, 2022 06:47
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Idk how to change the thread title but W&R Soviet Republic : Once you get over the initial brain damage, it's great appeals
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Jun 3, 2022 09:35
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Report your title suggestion in a post and ask for a change in the comments, or PM a mod.
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Jun 3, 2022 09:39
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biglads posted:Idk how to change the thread title but I mean this applies to me. I spent multiple hours designing and lining up pretty micro districts in my brand new town. That is probably going to fail miserably. Neweat problem. I'm trying to build some heating pipes and I can't assign them to a construction office. The game tells me that "road connection with construction office doesn't exist" E: I desperately wish this game had full screen windowed so I didn't have to be constantly alt and tabbing Except that I build a road under the drat pipes that connects to the roads that construction drive along constantly, in an area that is closer to the office building then the rest of the construction I'm doing.  You can see the constuction above the pipes, trucks come in from the bottom, and you can see a truck on the connector to the pipes. I guess the road isn't directly under the pipes, is that the issue? But you can just see the pipes on the right, and they were built without issue... Demon_Corsair fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Jun 3, 2022 |
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Jun 3, 2022 16:43
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The game is sometimes finicky about which connections allow work, but it looks like there it's just plain not connected. Parallel-snap especially, but also grid or perspective, sometimes decides that you want the new segment to be offset if you lay it far to near; near to far, conversely, sometimes snaps xy but takes the specified z rather than sloping.
Mandoric fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Jun 3, 2022 |
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Jun 3, 2022 16:52
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Demon_Corsair posted:I mean this applies to me. I spent multiple hours designing and lining up pretty micro districts in my brand new town. That is probably going to fail miserably. Road connection for "trimming" like pipes, conveyors, electrical etc. happen at the substation or base station which has a road connection. Road connections are very literal, it must be connected somewhere with the yellow arrow that connects to your roads and CO. The construction will be projected out from the substation to the segments in these cases.
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Jun 3, 2022 16:56
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oh the number of times I've built roads/rails/pipes with sections that weren't actually linked.
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Jun 3, 2022 16:57
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If you have parallel snapping on, I find when building pipes and underground wires that it really likes to snap to a parallel location rather than the actual end of the pipe you're building from. Also, pipes/wires are weird in that I think they need to be built from a base station, like the game needs a location with a road connection to actually send the construction vehicles to, and if you build wires/pipes long enough that you have "floating" construction segments that are not connected to a base station, I don't know if the game can figure out how to build those without using helicopters?
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Jun 3, 2022 17:14
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While we're on the subject of connectors, I wonder if it's possible to mod in utility tunnels, Prague style. Something with a notably higher labor and concrete/steel/electrical components cost than a single buried segment, and limited capacity on the water/sewer/heat ends than a full pipe, but less labor and more space-efficient/less finicky about lines crossing than burying all four (for now) services separately. E: Even better if it could handle the biggest non-aesthetic use of real ones, being able to build out a higher-capacity segment at aboveground costs while also maintaining the old service until completion. Mandoric fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Jun 3, 2022 |
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Jun 3, 2022 17:28
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zedprime posted:It looks like your pipes aren't connected. This was it, thank you! Not sure I missed it. Well now I'm back to hating this game. How the gently caress do you deal with hills and poo poo to get gravel up and running? If I flatten the area for the gravel mine, there is no way in hell I can get a road in. Do just have to flatten and terraform the entire loving area?
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Jun 3, 2022 17:46
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The game already supports varying types of connector so you would hope so, it would be nice generally to have more options for "luxury" style infrastructure. In general I would like to be able to spend the budget of my republic on things like that, it would be nice if we could "develop" vehicles with expanded capacity, or go all in on weird and wacky options like road trains or high speed railway or something. If enver hoxha can spend the entire economy on bunkers I should be able to spend it on making an underground travelator network to give citizens 200% walking speed, or a giant arcology for everyone to live in. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Jun 3, 2022 |
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Jun 3, 2022 17:49
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| # ? May 28, 2024 06:46 |
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Demon_Corsair posted:This was it, thank you! Not sure I missed it. Post a pic of the area you're working with, it might just be very inconveniently located, usually you pick a gravel patch that is located on flatter terrain but finding ways to get roads into hills for mines is one of the challenges.
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Jun 3, 2022 17:50
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