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The Maroon Hawk posted:The teaser for Part 2 shows Brenner looking at the gate Eleven created in her fight with One after being presumably sealed off, so I think the timeline is Eleven opens the first gate in the fight with One, it’s sealed off, the Evil Scientists start experimenting on Eleven now that they know what she’s capable of, and then they deliberately(?) open the second gate in S1 - hence Brenner’s comments about “first contact” etc. It’s been a while since I watched S1 though so I may be misremembering things. After watching S4 I just binged the rest of it so it's fresh. They might try that as part of the retcon, but Brenner looks very confused and surprised in S1 when she rips the gate open. It's very clear at the time that this was not something they were expecting or had experienced before.
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Jun 3, 2022 17:06
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^^^He could expect Eleven to be connecting to some alternate dimension and still be surprised when a gate several times larger than the previous one collapses an entire wall and a monster jumps out and starts murdering everything in its path. And as people said, the Eleven flashbacks this season take place four years before the start of season one, and all of Eleven's flashbacks in season one take place in that four year gap.The Maroon Hawk posted:The teaser for Part 2 shows Brenner looking at the gate Eleven created in her fight with One after being presumably sealed off, so I think the timeline is Eleven opens the first gate in the fight with One, it’s sealed off, the Evil Scientists start experimenting on Eleven now that they know what she’s capable of, and then they deliberately(?) open the second gate in S1 - hence Brenner’s comments about “first contact” etc. It’s been a while since I watched S1 though so I may be misremembering things. You don't even need to go to the teaser, because the first scene of episode one of this season when Brenner enters the Rainbow Room post-massacre you can see that the gate has already been closed.
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Jun 3, 2022 17:12
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I don't know if this was mentioned before but I just saw this promo image for the show and the implication seems to be that there's going to be gates open in the school, California, Hawkins and Russia? Which might how we get all characters reunited in a short amount of time. Although I don't know how much sense it makes for Mike and the others to go back to California from Utah, instead of just heading to Indiana, so this might just be a red herring. Edit: in hindsight that first image is probably the lab where Eleven grew up dpkg chopra fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Jun 3, 2022 |
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Jun 3, 2022 17:14
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Problematic Pigeon posted:You don't even need to go to the teaser, because the first scene of episode one of this season when Brenner enters the Rainbow Room post-massacre you can see that the gate has already been closed. Just checked and this explains a shitload. Looks like 001 is long gone, so now Brenner thinks it was all 011 that did it all. The gate is just a crack in the wall with no evidence that it was even a gate at all, so presumably 011 tried to close it on her own and succeeded... or something else did. So now 011 is the only one who knows about the gate at all. But that begs the question: wouldn't Brenner have reviewed the tapes? Particularly when 001 was nowhere to be found? So the presumption is either he did and knew what she was capable of and tried to re-create it, or he didn't and opening the new gate was by entirely by chance. Also, just finished last night, and lmao episode 7 is completely devoid of Will/Mike. I get somewhat how their storyline is important, but it seems... bad and totally unrelated to the main plot. Similar to Joyce/Hop. It seems like it's a whole "they're separated from the main group and now we have to create an entire subplot just to get them back together" sort of thing. Just watched the Vol II trailer and I see that there's something in Russia it looks like? Only thing I can speculate about Will/Mike is that there's some other government entity that is doing parallel research in to the upside down, so rather than weaponizing the kids powers they want to weaponize the upside down (i.e. what the Russians are doing), so maybe they get captured or something along the way and that part is revealed? The only thing I'm still wondering right now is so how was Vecna created? Is the Mind Flayer the big bad of the upside down? Or is there some other... god? Dusty Exposition told us that the Mind Flayer is the king and Vecna was a general. I presume the lightning jabbing Vecna was imbuing him with more power or something, but I'm still left wondering if the Mind Flayer is the ultimate authority there or if it's just another monster among many. Really curious how the upside down works and it's organized... you got the demogorgons, the mind flayer, vecna, and all those bat things. And some creature making roaring/growling noises. What else is there? Is it a full ecosystem, or just some main baddie with a small variety of minions? Edit: Forgot one thing that was bothering me: why is the upside down stuck, time-wise, when Will disappeared? Why not from th first gate, or even the second? DaveSauce fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Jun 3, 2022 |
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Jun 3, 2022 21:58
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I could've done without seeing 11's sad constipated face for 7 episodes. Could've been a way more interesting storyline there for the middle episodes with her. Otherwise it wasn't bad, I guess. e: Winona's storyline may as well be a whole other show
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Jun 4, 2022 00:27
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Barreft posted:e: Winona's storyline may as well be a whole other show I don't even find the Joyce/Murray/Hopper stuff bad (I even like a lot of the Hopper in prison scenes), but they're just so poorly integrated. Also, like a lot of the storylines, very bloated and self-indulgent. I enjoyed the season overall, but there's absolutely a much better, tighter season in there somewhere. Fittingly, it kind of reminds me of Stephen King went he got huge and stopped having editors who would level with him.
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Jun 4, 2022 00:54
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I really don't mind because I'm having a good round when I'm watching it, but yeah MBB got almost nothing to do this season which is a pity. Hopefully the last part will fix that.
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Jun 4, 2022 00:59
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Millie Bobby Brown definitely get enough screentime/character presence so far, but Mini Bobbie Brown got plenty of work in the flashbacks.
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Jun 4, 2022 01:03
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Scholtz posted:Millie Bobby Brown definitely get enough screentime/character presence so far, but Mini Bobbie Brown got plenty of work in the flashbacks. She's had a ton of screentime.. but they didn't let her do anything with it besides this:  She was great in ep7. I'm just being vague cause I dunno the spoilers. I liked the season but I don't need the full 7 episodes of her just being bullied and crying. e: That said, Max is the star of this season Barreft fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Jun 4, 2022 |
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Jun 4, 2022 01:22
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The problem is that El’s character arc this season wouldn’t work with S3 El, so they had to work out a way for her to regress so that she could end up with development despite the fact that she’d gotten much of that development already.
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Jun 4, 2022 04:34
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Narsham posted:The problem is that El’s character arc this season wouldn’t work with S3 El, so they had to work out a way for her to regress so that she could end up with development despite the fact that she’d gotten much of that development already. That's well put
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Jun 4, 2022 05:03
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Did anyone undergo new development here? maybe one kid learning "don't tell your gf her value comes from the superpowers"
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Jun 4, 2022 05:12
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Narsham posted:The problem is that El’s character arc this season wouldn’t work with S3 El, so they had to work out a way for her to regress so that she could end up with development despite the fact that she’d gotten much of that development already. Nah, I really disagree with the idea that a person's recovery from trauma is linear. Besides, El's character arc was never "solved" by her finding a new support system that cares for her, the work was always going to be internal. A lot of the season is about stripping the character of all the environmental conditions that allow her to remain stable (her adopted father, her friends and Hawkins, even the control she had over her powers) and pushing her to regress. The resistance to regression in the face of trauma is progress in and of itself.
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Jun 4, 2022 05:24
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Max develops a bunch but it’s carried by the actors acting more than the script (outside ep 4)
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Jun 4, 2022 05:24
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Murray learns to believe in himself.
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Jun 4, 2022 06:11
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Lucas maybe learns something but it's just an infinitely shittier version of Steve's arc from S1
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Jun 4, 2022 06:27
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I think this is my favorite season of Stranger Things.
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Jun 4, 2022 12:21
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The writing is terrible. Hardwolf gets mad at El for punching the evil chick that just intentionally humiliated her in front of the entire skating rink? And then police arrest a 16(?) year old girl and send her off to desert prison without contacting her parents or asking anyone at the rink what happened. And then it doesn't even loving matter because she just gets immediately saved by Burke. It's hack garbage.
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Jun 4, 2022 13:50
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She does not a great job of explaining the situation to the police, but it seems unrealistic that Hopper would not have taught her not to talk to police.
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Jun 4, 2022 14:07
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Yea, he probably did. But it was probably "Don't say anything until I show up"
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Jun 4, 2022 14:15
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Open Source Idiom posted:Nah, I really disagree with the idea that a person's recovery from trauma is linear. Besides, El's character arc was never "solved" by her finding a new support system that cares for her, the work was always going to be internal. I think my objection is more that her remaining support structure (after moving away) is almost completely non-functional. I can understand not sending her to therapy (though addressing that in a show which acknowledges that was a thing even in the 80s would have been nice), but her “mom” is working from home and totally oblivious to her needs. Is there any meaningful dialogue between Joyce and El in the opening episodes before Joyce runs off? After a massively overprotective Hopper in S3, this seems an improbable shift. She’s lying to Mike, who is unavailable emotionally (teenager, so OK I guess, but it isn’t how he was last season), and Jonathan is too baked to assist, so the only emotional support she has is Will, who is the only character on the show who arguably has a greater need for a therapist that she does. So the show starts the season having already stripped away support from El, in a way that implies she may never have been getting that support in the first place. Honestly, I’d have preferred Joyce being hyperparanoid about “Jane” being discovered, helicopter parenting, and arguing with El about even mentioning Hopper in a class project. Have that be a defiant El who then gets crushed by bullies at school over a project that took on greater significance because she had to fight to complete it, and reinforce the idea that she also has issues about controlling parent figures before reintroducing Brenner. Make her trauma be more intelligably the reason that she lies so comprehensively to Mike, and make Will more upset because she is traumatized AND pulling away from her support network instead of already being cut off. Will himself should have shown a bit more emotion: the poor kid should have massive separation anxiety and he hasn’t gotten therapy, and his support structures are even more screwed up than El’s. Being a “third wheel” should be far harder on him. Maybe we’re supposed to read his relative lack of emotion as a trauma response, but it reads more like he’s recovered from his trauma.
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Jun 4, 2022 14:53
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I AM GRANDO posted:She does not a great job of explaining the situation to the police, but it seems unrealistic that Hopper would not have taught her not to talk to police. He probably never thought she'd leave Hawkins, so the only line of defense she'd need is, "My dad is the chief, I'm above the rules, let me go, thank you for your service". I do appreciate how the cops are shown without fail in this series to all be woefully incompetent, uncaring, or corrupt.
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Jun 4, 2022 14:53
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Ratios and Tendency posted:And then police arrest a 16(?) year old girl and send her off to desert prison without contacting her parents or asking anyone at the rink what happened. So, standard tactics for cops Edit: On another topic, it seems to me that it would make much more sense for Stranger Things to have just dropped the first four episodes, then do the remaining episodes once a week until the final two (also once a week), the way Amazon does its shows or how the Obi-Wan. Get a chunk of episodes out front (including the best episode of the season) for the bingers, and then the ongoing releases keep people speculating and keeps interests up for a longer time Piell fucked around with this message at 15:03 on Jun 4, 2022 |
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Jun 4, 2022 14:57
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https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1532787589643743233 It's hilarious how hard the fanbase is trying to give Will some characterization and the creators are like "nope it was unintentional there is no subtext". So postmodern.
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Jun 4, 2022 15:23
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Dmitri-9 posted:https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1532787589643743233 It's not really hilarious so much as it is a matter of whether you think the meaning of a work is limited to authorial intent or not.
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Jun 4, 2022 15:32
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That’s really loving sad actually. Some real late stage Game of Thrones poo poo.
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Jun 4, 2022 17:30
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It seems like something fairly trivial to fix with editing? Isn’t it just mentioned on a voice over from Eleven?
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Jun 4, 2022 17:48
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XboxPants posted:It's not really hilarious so much as it is a matter of whether you think the meaning of a work is limited to authorial intent or not. When I'm criticizing the author authorial intent is on my mind.
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Jun 4, 2022 17:50
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I don’t remember if anyone mentions the date, but when the bullies are filming El at the skating rink the camcorder shows the date, which would be an easy enough edit.
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Jun 4, 2022 17:51
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Dmitri-9 posted:When I'm criticizing the author authorial intent is on my mind. Wow I completely misread your post. Now that I see what you mean, yeah, it is kind of funny. Poor Will. Also, that interview is worth a read for people trying to sort out exactly what 11's pre-show timeline is, they give some direct answers there.
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Jun 4, 2022 18:09
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I don’t believe they wrote a story bible for the upside down while writing season one. If they did, they haven’t stuck to it, or they were intentionally vague to give themselves room to make more stuff up later.
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Jun 4, 2022 18:20
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I AM GRANDO posted:I don’t believe they wrote a story bible for the upside down while writing season one. If they did, they haven’t stuck to it, or they were intentionally vague to give themselves room to make more stuff up later. Yeah it's much more weird and inexplicable early on
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Jun 4, 2022 19:22
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Dmitri-9 posted:https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1532787589643743233 Pretty bad that the show where the focus is supposed to be on the characters can't be bothered to remember anything about said characters. They must have some assistant doing fact checking to make sure all the 80s stuff is in the right place, but they couldn't be hosed to worry about the specific character timelines? Also hard to imagine any of the inconsistencies, mysteries, etc are going to pan out in any sort of satisfactory way - you have to assume that they are also oversights that will get fixed in post later, retconned for cohesion, or just ignored.
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Jun 4, 2022 19:49
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That certainly is a conclusion you can choose to draw lol Are there even that many outstanding mysteries left in the show?
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Jun 4, 2022 19:54
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I don't give a gently caress if the writers forgot one of the characters' birthday, and honestly I don't see why anyone would care about such meaningless trivia.
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Jun 4, 2022 19:57
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The only mystery I can think of the show really even having is the nature of the upside down. I guess there are cliffhangers like Will having weird eggs in him and Eleven’s fate being ambiguous at the end of season one, but it’s not a mystery show.
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Jun 4, 2022 19:59
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Mymla posted:I don't give a gently caress if the writers forgot one of the characters' birthday, and honestly I don't see why anyone would care about such meaningless trivia. It’s weird because like, I don’t personally care enough to have ever noticed without prompting but I feel like the Duffers SHOULD care enough. Like you had nearly 3 years, somebody should have caught it.
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Jun 4, 2022 20:21
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Mymla posted:I don't give a gently caress if the writers forgot one of the characters' birthday, and honestly I don't see why anyone would care about such meaningless trivia. it's not really a big deal no, but it is really funny in a pathetic sort of way that Will's entire thing this season is feeling like a left out and sidelined third wheel and even the people who created him forgot his birthday it's such an easy shot to take, and they still hosed it up lol
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Jun 4, 2022 21:23
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they really should not have released this show next to stranger things and the boys. being so close to two actually high quality shows just makes this thing look even worse
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Jun 4, 2022 21:42
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babypolis posted:they really should not have released this show next to stranger things and the boys. being so close to two actually high quality shows just makes this thing look even worse You may have the wrong thread?
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Jun 4, 2022 21:56
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