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Ytlaya posted:
I agree with this but I actually liked late Naruto more than I'm liking late MHA. MHA has this nagging feeling of acknowledging how hosed things are, but also refusing to budge or really do anything with it that makes the whole thing really predictable and trite in a way that Naruto, with all it's betrayals and shifting politics and random double crosses and enemy defections didn't. Also I liked Moriking, but it was absolutely a manga with an expiration date and it mercifully ended before it ran itself into the ground. Be interested if the author gets another gig to see if they can do something else.
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Jun 4, 2022 08:07
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despite the several godawful swerves in late naruto, it ended well enough. it was as much about forgiveness and looking ahead as it was winning a big fight. by contrast mha is entirely about winning a big fight. there's no need to change society if you beat up all the bad guys and put them in prison forever.
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Jun 4, 2022 08:51
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:despite the several godawful swerves in late naruto, it ended well enough. it was as much about forgiveness and looking ahead as it was winning a big fight. by contrast mha is entirely about winning a big fight. there's no need to change society if you beat up all the bad guys and put them in prison forever. Yeah this put into words what I felt much better.
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Jun 4, 2022 10:14
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it had a message, sure, but I won't give you naruto ending well. the whole final arc was bad and the epilogue was a joke. the culmination of sasuke's arc was "yeah, sorry"
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Jun 4, 2022 12:26
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It's worth it because apparently Orochimaru just got away with everything and leads a new village and really didn't suffer at all for all his bullshit. Like even Aizen got locked up on his mega-prison-chair for a bit.
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Jun 4, 2022 12:54
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the price for peace was that everyone got a clean slate, even the people who really didn't deserve it. and in the snake pedophile's case, he surprisingly did turn his life around.
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Jun 4, 2022 13:00
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I mean, he hosed Konoha simply because he wanted to see things change, and experimented on people becaus ehe wanted to live eternally. He more or less got both of his wishes by the end of Naruto. Now with Zetsus and clones he can more or less do his jutsu without the ethical compromises and the whole village system changed a lot. As weird and unearned as it feels, it surprisingly makes sense.
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Jun 4, 2022 13:13
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A Sometimes Food posted:I agree with this but I actually liked late Naruto more than I'm liking late MHA. MHA has this nagging feeling of acknowledging how hosed things are, but also refusing to budge or really do anything with it that makes the whole thing really predictable and trite in a way that Naruto, with all it's betrayals and shifting politics and random double crosses and enemy defections didn't. I'd say Moriking may have even slightly overstayed its welcome. Or at least it was pushing it. Ytlaya posted:Haven't read Saiyuki or Phantom Seer, but Red Hood and Candy Flurry weren't really good enough. They had things to like about them, but nothing really stood out. I would love to see the Candy Flurry person try again. The stuff that was good, was really good. At least to me. 
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Jun 4, 2022 13:27
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Silver2195 posted:[*]Pure ecchi manga: Uh, Blue Box? (Really, it feels like Jump just stopped running horny stuff; even Undead Unluck is a lot less horny now. I guess Blue Box does do a great job of staying tasteful given how often the subtext is about a teenage boy trying very hard not to masturbate.) You could have just said Ayakashi Triangle as SJ just recently moved it, and the parent company still runs it. Instead of making some weird joke about Blue Box.
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Jun 4, 2022 14:27
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Pierson posted:It's worth it because apparently Orochimaru just got away with everything and leads a new village and really didn't suffer at all for all his bullshit. Like even Aizen got locked up on his mega-prison-chair for a bit. Orochimaru turned into a gag character, he's harmless now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTa9S0UYCrk
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Jun 4, 2022 15:48
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The ninja war was like 1/4th of the manga and overall wasn't very good. 1000 year blood war in Bleach was worse.
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Jun 4, 2022 15:54
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"There's no way." 484-700 Holy poo poo it was.
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Jun 4, 2022 17:16
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The Black Stones posted:You could have just said Ayakashi Triangle as SJ just recently moved it, and the parent company still runs it. Instead of making some weird joke about Blue Box. That would be the opposite of what I meant. I’m saying Triangle is bad and that all current series in Jump are fortunately unlike it.
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Jun 4, 2022 17:24
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:despite the several godawful swerves in late naruto, it ended well enough. it was as much about forgiveness and looking ahead as it was winning a big fight. by contrast mha is entirely about winning a big fight. there's no need to change society if you beat up all the bad guys and put them in prison forever. I think the main difference is that late Naruto was much worse about just dragging on forever, and had a couple major outright bad plot/character issues (mostly Sasuke). Late MHA is just very bland in terms of plot/characters, but it's at least not paced quite as horribly.
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Jun 5, 2022 01:32
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Naruto was like pretty clearly an editor telling(asking) Kishimoto to extend the serialization.
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Jun 5, 2022 01:52
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Tbh I really just think The Great Ninja War was just Kishimoto overextending himself on a cool idea while also thinking he had to bring a lot of people back that he didn’t really need to with zero Tensei to redo their arcs. Or at least, it’s pretty easy to believe that in the context of Madara eventually being so mega-busted an alien had to come down from space that was ALSO mega busted but with One Weird Trick that existed to defeat her with the main character and his life partner.
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Jun 5, 2022 02:23
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kishi openly admitted that he wrote himself into a corner by making madara too strong. but even the surprise alien attack had its upside, what with her being highly vulnerable to sexy no jutsu.
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Jun 5, 2022 03:08
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:kishi openly admitted that he wrote himself into a corner by making madara too strong. but even the surprise alien attack had its upside, what with her being highly vulnerable to sexy no jutsu. God the forums being down when that chapter hit was such a bummer.
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Jun 5, 2022 03:38
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The general problem with MHA's back half can generally being boiled down to "Man, I wish there was more of this"- i.e. making some arcs longer (like maybe having Batman Deku go on longer than like a half dozen chapters), or giving some characters more of a spotlight, or not having climatic fights end in like 2 chapters, etc. The problem with the last like, half of Naruto to me was "Man, I wish there was a lot less of most of this". Kind of a difference there.
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Jun 5, 2022 04:51
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Uh, there were plenty of moments (most of the big war arc, for example) that I wished there was a lot less of
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Jun 5, 2022 05:34
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MHA has felt kind of like it's been dragging its heels for a while now. I fell off around the time America Woman showed up, cus it just felt like the series was spinning its wheels, wasting time until it decided it was finally time for Deku to fight the bad guys.
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Jun 5, 2022 06:07
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Phase shifting to the universe where MHA was only 80 chapters long
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Jun 5, 2022 06:12
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RareAcumen posted:Phase shifting to the universe where MHA was only 80 chapters long The manga abruptly ends with the introduction of Mr. Compress, as MHA was abruptly cancelled to give more pages to a new series, "U19". This, naturally, leads to the downfall of human civilization.
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Jun 5, 2022 06:30
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MHA going to poo poo coincided with horikoshi getting assigned a new editor with a real bad reputation, so I feel the problem is that either the new editor is pushing him to do a bunch of dumb poo poo or, even worse, not giving any feedback at all and hori is just floundering trying to keep the bus rolling without any birds eye view input.
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Jun 5, 2022 06:31
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Its the waste of air whose "editing" Earthchild. So. Yes.
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Jun 5, 2022 06:42
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ConanThe3rd posted:Its the waste of air whose "editing" Earthchild. Ha ha ha oh man, what kind of dirt does this guy have to still have a job?
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Jun 5, 2022 06:43
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:Ha ha ha oh man, what kind of dirt does this guy have to still have a job?
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Jun 5, 2022 07:41
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IShallRiseAgain posted:My bet is that it's nepotism or he is good at brown nosing the right people. MHA has been keeping up in sales, and he presumably hits his deadlines and fulfills the regular requirements. We can't know what's going on behind the scenes most of the time, but it seems like he's been doing his job and hasn't screwed up enough that it's definitely his fault rather than the manga not being workable.
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Jun 5, 2022 07:54
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Conversely his scorecard is near-exclusively u19 manga (if not literally so, then farts like Samurai 8, which he should have been fired into the sun for given the media bitz they tried for that one), including Earthchild, so I'm convinced he's loving around.
ConanThe3rd fucked around with this message at 08:21 on Jun 5, 2022 |
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Jun 5, 2022 08:15
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ConanThe3rd posted:Conversely his scorecard is near-exclusively u19 manga (if not literally so, then farts like Samurai 8, which he should have been fired into the sun for given the media bitz they tried for that one), including Earthchild, so I'm convinced he's loving around. Samurai 8 getting the marketing blitz isn't his fault, if memory serves. That was decided higher up in the chain. He was just a less experienced editor getting assigned to a pro because, hey, Kishimoto had made one of the biggest manga in the world, he should know how to handle the basics by now. This, obviously, was not the wisest decision. Trusting your mangaka too much is a mistake for an editor, but when you're the rookie and the guy saying that he has a great idea has sold hundreds of millions of manga, it's an easy mistake to make.
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Jun 5, 2022 08:35
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If not Samurai 8 then by the time his third or so U19 came in the form of Red Hood there should be red flags because he's absolutely the common factor in it.
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Jun 5, 2022 08:49
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^^^^ The main reason I'm skeptical about the editor being the sole cause is that earlier MHA was honestly never really exceptional in its plot/characters. When I think back, there aren't really any arcs that stand out to me. There are some *moments* that do and are very well executed, but I can't recall anything particularly interesting happening in the plot of pretty much the entire series now that I stop and think about it. Fabricated posted:The general problem with MHA's back half can generally being boiled down to "Man, I wish there was more of this"- i.e. making some arcs longer (like maybe having Batman Deku go on longer than like a half dozen chapters), or giving some characters more of a spotlight, or not having climatic fights end in like 2 chapters, etc. I think my biggest issue is that a shounen manga like this needs to do (at least) one of two things good - have interesting fights, or have an interesting plot. Late MHA (and honestly early/mid MHA to varying degrees) doesn't really succeed with either. Characters sometimes have interesting abilities, but they're not used in interesting ways, so the fights aren't very interesting. Which can be okay if the plot itself is very compelling, but it isn't really. It can basically be summed up as "there's are bad guys, the characters need to stop them (and maybe a couple have a relationship with one of the protagonist's friends that also isn't very interesting)." MHA does have exceptional art (though less exceptional paneling), but that's the sort of thing that can't carry a series on its own. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 09:59 on Jun 5, 2022 |
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Jun 5, 2022 09:56
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the editor for red hood was absolutely at fault because that's a manga that deliberately screwed up the first arc for a meta payoff a hundred plus chapters later. maybe that's just a post-hoc justification the author came up with when it came time to wrap things up, though.
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Jun 5, 2022 10:49
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For me, it's really obvious that somewhere around the end of Villain Arc, Horikoshi had epiphany where he realized he absolutely didn't want to be writing MHA for next two decades and decided to cut down the storyboard to bare essentials. Getting a lovely editor might have helped in making the execution worse, but I don't really think it really explains the way MHA is speed-running through its plot.
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Jun 5, 2022 11:03
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:the editor for red hood was absolutely at fault because that's a manga that deliberately screwed up the first arc for a meta payoff a hundred plus chapters later. maybe that's just a post-hoc justification the author came up with when it came time to wrap things up, though. Nah, that stuff was seeded extremely early on. It still could have been executed better, and it definitely was rushed because the manga was canceled early, but I think that was always the plan.
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Jun 5, 2022 12:25
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The last time I was really digging MHA was the gentle criminal arc, and even that had its issues with the stakes being so convoluted high when basically the all the guy wanted to do was take selfies at a school festival without permission. I think it may have been the last arc where the conflict was between characters instead of giant action set pieces.
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Jun 5, 2022 12:40
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Red Hood handled premature cancellation better than any series I have ever seen. Honestly I don’t think the “this is all a story” thing would have been nearly as wild if it didn’t also coincide with the impending cancellation. I just want the author to come back and draw more tall girls. PringleCreamEgg fucked around with this message at 13:16 on Jun 5, 2022 |
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Jun 5, 2022 12:58
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Indiana_Krom posted:The last time I was really digging MHA was the gentle criminal arc, and even that had its issues with the stakes being so convoluted high when basically the all the guy wanted to do was take selfies at a school festival without permission. I think it may have been the last arc where the conflict was between characters instead of giant action set pieces. What do you mean? If Gentle was successful the festival gets cancelled and Eri loses out on finally having a moment to enjoy herself. Seems low stakes to me, but it's very personal to Midoriya which what makes it work.
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Jun 5, 2022 15:44
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MHA's biggest failing is that it never fully lives up to the premise of "superpower high school" and effectively jettisons slice of life, lower stakes right from the get-go
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Jun 5, 2022 16:18
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Electric Phantasm posted:What do you mean? If Gentle was successful the festival gets cancelled and Eri loses out on finally having a moment to enjoy herself. Seems low stakes to me, but it's very personal to Midoriya which what makes it work. There was a goal in the writing to reach the (very good) smile and wave page after overcoming a trial, but getting to that point just seemed sloppy and poorly planned.
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Jun 5, 2022 16:25
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