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Kefit posted:Thanks for the tips, this stuff is very helpful. I guess we won't be getting the Phantom Ranch breakfast if we have to be on the trail out by 3am. I have a feeling that my hiking buddies will raise a stink about skipping breakfast - they're in better shape than me and are better at dealing with heat. Hopefully I can talk some sense into them. This may have been talked about already, but if you live in the Seattle area, the altitude for you could be rough. That's like a 7000 foot difference. That killed me when I was a teenager and in amazing shape (granted I'm pretty susceptible to altitude sickness), but I'm also mid 30s and I shudder a bit at the thought of that level of exertion at that altitude. If you can, you may want to arrive a few days early and get acclimated a bit if that's an option. Altitude sickness is very real, and in that heat, can be pretty danged serious.
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May 31, 2022 21:05
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Also take water treatment tabs along with your filters because they've been having Norovirus cases popping up in the GCNP.
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May 31, 2022 21:11
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Pinus Porcus posted:This may have been talked about already, but if you live in the Seattle area, the altitude for you could be rough. That's like a 7000 foot difference. That killed me when I was a teenager and in amazing shape (granted I'm pretty susceptible to altitude sickness), but I'm also mid 30s and I shudder a bit at the thought of that level of exertion at that altitude. If you can, you may want to arrive a few days early and get acclimated a bit if that's an option. Altitude sickness is a force to be reckoned with, and it can make you loving miserable. It's also essentially completely random in who it will affect- things like age and physical fitness don't really play any role in whether you get symptoms or not. I've seen people who spent their entire life at sea level have nothing more than a mild headache at 9000 feet, while an otherwise fit person who lived at 4000 was so badly stricken at 9000 they needed to be escorted back down ASAP to avoid a medical emergency. Altitude will also dehydrate you insanely fast, even in a room temperature environment. You lose twice as much water to evaporation at 6000ft as you do at sea level.
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May 31, 2022 21:32
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Sab669 posted:
going down can be painful, miserable, and grueling, however it is not taxing in the same way cardio wise. I'm a bigger dude, and despite my knees hating the downs, I take ups far more seriously in terms of planning and worry. Going down i will keep my breath the whole time without much issue, and its more a matter of maintaining discipline with my poles to keep my knees feeling good. Going up, especially at elevation, can have me gasping for breath every 10 minutes or less when I'm out of shape.
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May 31, 2022 21:42
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I've always felt like going down is harder than going up. Seems like you'd have to realize "gently caress this" going up a mountain very quickly to know it's not feasible.
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Another trick for fighting dehydration is to breathe mostly through your nose, as apparently breathing through your mouth can increase water loss (anecdotally it seems to help). It will also force you to pace yourself, because if you are breathing so heavily that you can't breathe through your nose you're probably exerting too much effort. I've always used this method to pace myself while running and cycling long distances and it works well.
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May 31, 2022 21:42
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Doing a weekly height with gain to prepare definitely makes sense. The challenge is fitting it into my very packed schedule, which is why I've been coming up with lower time commitment things I can do to prepare. But I think I can make a weekly Sunday morning hike work, and I should. Now I just have to figure out how to get to a trailhead without losing my mind. I have a car, but seemingly every worthwhile hike near Seattle has a trailhead parking lot that fills up at the crack of dawn. And these days there are frequently prowlers breaking into the parked cars. As far as elevation goes, I didn't really notice any elevation related issues while at Island in the Sky (~6100 ft) last year. I don't expect to feel *nothing* at the south rim, but I think I'll be ok.
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Jun 1, 2022 03:47
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If you are going to do this, you’re gonna have to commit. Getting up in the dark is how you do around here, and frankly it seems like the best option for a busy day.
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Jun 1, 2022 17:38
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Upside is you get to see sunrises which are pretty amazing and worth the effort by itself. If you get to do a kickass hike too, even better. This is the toughest time of year for it though because sunrise is so dang early.
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Jun 1, 2022 17:49
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xzzy posted:Upside is you get to see sunrises which are pretty amazing and worth the effort by itself. If you get to do a kickass hike too, even better. I honestly like it. Traffic is a cinch, there’s never a line for coffee, etc. Trailhead breakins being as bad as they are is a bit new, but just have nothing in your car, and bring your glovebox papers with you when you hike
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Jun 1, 2022 17:54
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Bottom Liner posted:Another trick for fighting dehydration is to breathe mostly through your nose, as apparently breathing through your mouth can increase water loss (anecdotally it seems to help). It will also force you to pace yourself, because if you are breathing so heavily that you can't breathe through your nose you're probably exerting too much effort. I've always used this method to pace myself while running and cycling long distances and it works well. Sup fellow nose breather. I have been doing this while cycling for a while. I can vouch for its efficacy.
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Jun 1, 2022 19:25
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Math You posted:Sup fellow nose breather. I have been doing this while cycling for a while. I can vouch for its efficacy. I have been told that if you can hold a conversation while hiking (and not entirely out of breath and struggling) then you're going at a good pace. However, when climbing the 97 switchbacks near the top of mt whitney, I had apparently irritated my hiking buddy so much that he told me to cram it. I spent the rest of the time quietly humming to myself. Apparently altitude sickness makes you very cranky.
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Jun 1, 2022 19:47
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Kefit posted:Doing a weekly height with gain to prepare definitely makes sense. The challenge is fitting it into my very packed schedule, which is why I've been coming up with lower time commitment things I can do to prepare. But I think I can make a weekly Sunday morning hike work, and I should. Doesn't have to be every week, just be sure you know what 5000 ft up and down (or something close to it) feels like before you do it in July in the GC
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Jun 1, 2022 22:24
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weekday hiking in the greater seattle are is one million times better than weekend hiking if it is at all possible to do any kind of schedule heroics to make it work
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Jun 2, 2022 01:07
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Bloody posted:weekday hiking in the greater seattle are is one million times better than weekend hiking if it is at all possible to do any kind of schedule heroics to make it work God, I wish I could. The three day SaSuMon backpacks I have done in the Alpine Lakes Wilderness have had the difference between the two as night and day.
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Jun 2, 2022 07:07
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Pictured Rocks Overnight Started at the Beaver Lake Overlook, I wanted to try a less hiked area and this seemed to be a good one. This was my sons (12) first hiking trip where he was carrying a pack and helping out so enjoyment was high on the list of requirements. We didn't pass anyone from here to Lake Superior. Set up at Pine Bluff, which was a real beauty of a campsite. Met some cool dudes and hung out around a dead firepit while the temp kept dropping and dropping. My bag was rated for 25F, and by morning it was definitely nearing the comfort level. On the plus side, virtually no mosquitos. Sometime mid night the wind dropped and it warmed up a bit. We were on the trail by 8am, made it to Coves after a water stop at Beaver Creek. Saw pajama man paddling kayaks in the creek and had a good laugh. Everyone at coves was in headnets. This was our warning that the mosquitos, minus a north wind, were bad. Not the worst I've ever seen, but pretty bad. We hiked to Spray Falls, checked out every cove and nook, and returned to mosquitos. So we decided to hike back out along the north side of Beaver Lake. On the plus side it was virtually untraveled, on the downside mosquitos. Total for the days was 12 miles, which was more than I wanted the kiddo to do in a day, but he was a trooper. Gear wise everything was pretty good. The sleeping pad situation needs remedying for the next trip (no more foam mats). I also need a pillow that isn't a glorified balloon. The guys we met at Pine Bluff had some really interesting sleep systems, except the poor German dude who forgot his hammock for his hammock sleep system.          
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Jun 5, 2022 14:04
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Speaking of rim to rim and the dangers of attempting it in a day. https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/04/us/grand-canyon-death-hiker-canadian/index.html Oh another training thing is to ruck. Just walk around and do all your exercises with a 20lb weight in a backpack. It’ll thrash you but it’s gonna help you get trail legs real quick.
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Jun 5, 2022 16:22
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If you decide to do any weighted hiking to train, use water as your weight. That way you can drink it or dump it if you decide it's too heavy part of the way into the hike.
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Jun 5, 2022 16:27
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Kinda hard to get 20-30 lbs with just water though. That's 2.5-4 gallons. A dumbbell wrapped in a hoodie (so it doesn't destroy your back or bag) and a bunch of water bottles to add as needed works.
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Jun 5, 2022 16:30
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Bottom Liner posted:Kinda hard to get 20-30 lbs with just water though. That's 2.5-4 gallons. A dumbbell wrapped in a hoodie (so it doesn't destroy your back or bag) and a bunch of water bottles to add as needed works. Just put one of those 3 gallon jugs in your pack? It's trivially easy
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Jun 5, 2022 16:59
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Yeah, but carrying two gallons in your hand is not an enjoyable way to hike for any real amount of time. I say this as someone who does kettlebell carrys, it sucks.
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Jun 5, 2022 17:10
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A gallon of water weighs 8lbs. It's really not hard to put 20lbs of water in a backpack.
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Jun 5, 2022 17:22
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Most bags are not going to be comfortable with two gallons of water either. Their shape is not conducive to putting multiples in a bag in a way that doesn’t suck to carry. That’s the whole point I was making.
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Jun 5, 2022 17:26
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Bottom Liner posted:Yeah, but carrying two gallons in your hand is not an enjoyable way to hike for any real amount of time. I say this as someone who does kettlebell carrys, it sucks. No one's talking about farmers carrying gallon jugs of water for training. People hike with backpacks. Training for hiking with a backpack involves putting on a backpack with a proper amount of training weight and going for a hike. It is trivial to put several gallons of water in a backpack and hike. It also does a much better job of filling a backpack than a dumbbell, which has training implications for how your pack sits on you, how moving shifts the pack and the load, etc. To train for hiking with a backpack, you hike with a backpack.
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Jun 5, 2022 17:28
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I have personally trained for alpine climbing approaches by carrying 3 or more gallons of water in backpacks (of several different designs) on steep hikes. It was never a problem. Not really sure what else to say about it so I'm not going to argue the point any further. If it doesn't work for you then okay.
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Jun 5, 2022 17:31
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Happiness Commando posted:No one's talking about farmers carrying gallon jugs of water for training. That is exactly what armorer recommended when they said put one of the three in your pack. Happiness Commando posted:
Yes, which is why I offered up a better solution to do just that. I’ve done everything from bricks wrapped in tape to gallon jugs to dumbbells wrapped in a hoodie to dedicated flat weights and found that the dumbells worked best if you don’t want to find a flat weight. Gallons take up way too much volume per pound to be a comfortable solution that distributes weight well in my experience. Sure you can make it work, but if it’s uncomfortable or doesn’t fit your bag it’s not going to be a good solution.
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Jun 5, 2022 17:39
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If you've got a bunch of water bladders to fill up, it seems fine. But the size & rigidity of throwing 3x 1gal water containers into a backpack sounds mega lovely.
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Jun 5, 2022 17:42
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Just bring frozen but cooked chicken nuggets. 40 liters of them.
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Jun 5, 2022 17:49
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Bottom Liner posted:That is exactly what armorer recommended when they said put one of the three in your pack. Armorer said to put 1 of those 3-gallon-jugs. There are 3-gallon containers. Though i could see how you might read it as Get 3 separate 1-gallon jugs, and put only 1 of them in your pack
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Jun 5, 2022 17:51
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alnilam posted:Armorer said to put 1 of those 3-gallon-jugs. There are 3-gallon containers. Ah yeah that’s as how I read that.
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Jun 5, 2022 18:04
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Alternately, strap a small child to your chest and all the diapers, formula, and extra clothes they need plus water and a picnic lunch for the rest of the family to your back. I was rocking 35 lbs of baby + gear this morning for a 4 mile loop with some light rock scrambles and it was fantastic.
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Jun 5, 2022 18:11
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I just bought a case of 20oz water bottles from Costco (for less than five bucks I think) and then added them to my pack over time when training. It definitely gets squeaky but I liked how the bottles filled out in the pack and distributed weight. Then I gave the bottles away when I was done training at the end of the season.
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Jun 5, 2022 18:25
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Please just don’t be the person I know who put a giant bag of rice in their bag and then decided it was too heavy halfway through and just dumped the rice everywhere
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Jun 5, 2022 19:05
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The great part of carrying water on a training hike is not only can you use it for hydration if necessary but if it's just too much or your don't want to stress your knees on a descent you can just dump it.
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Jun 5, 2022 19:06
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Large format photography is the actual most effective way to weigh down a backpack.
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Jun 5, 2022 19:06
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xzzy posted:Large format photography is the actual most effective way to weigh down a backpack. And a bank account 
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Jun 5, 2022 19:10
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Filling my pack with Fabergé eggs.
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Jun 5, 2022 19:39
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I know we were just discussing this a few pages back, but there was a fatality involving a 2 day hike down and up the Grand Canyon. https://www.yahoo.com/news/canadian-hiker-dies-grand-canyon-171456859.html It does not specify what the exact cause or timeframe was, but the article ends with a bunch of time, heat and hydration warnings. I know it can be a grim discussion, but in most cases, a fatality involves a series of mistakes/incidents, and the avoidance of just one of those could have changed the course of events. Do not underestimate the Grand Canyon. Correction: She was doing an up and down in 1 day.
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Jun 5, 2022 21:01
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Bottom Liner posted:Ah yeah that’s as how I read that. Oh god it all makes so much more sense now. Yeah, I was talking about those blocky 3 gallon containers with a pull-out spigot. I was so confused.
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Jun 5, 2022 21:28
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There's a book that chronicles the deaths of everyone who's died in the Grand Canyon and it's a fascinating read, pretty sure it got mentioned in here a couple years back. Even if you have no intention of ever going there it's worth picking up.
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Jun 6, 2022 04:41
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Hotel Kpro posted:There's a book that chronicles the deaths of everyone who's died in the Grand Canyon and it's a fascinating read, pretty sure it got mentioned in here a couple years back. Even if you have no intention of ever going there it's worth picking up. Below the Rim: Death in Grand Canyon. I pursued a lot if it when I was in the gift shop. It is a fascinating read. And a great cautionary tale. What I found most frightening were the accounts of falls. And a surprising amount of the falls were not accidents, but a result of people just loving around at the edge. "Look at me. I am going to fall! Oh shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit! . . . . . . Splat.
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Jun 6, 2022 18:48
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