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Karloff posted:Anakin had a whole prophecy written about it him before his birth. His immense power was due to him being pre-selected as special. He was the chosen one. He is considered powerful and important by the other characters due to this prophecy. In turn Luke is considered special and valuable because he's the son of the chosen one, and there's a great promise due to his bloodline. This is why Snoke went after Kylo Ren, again due to this bloodline and the power it apparently carries. Both Luke and Anakin and protagonists of their respective series, and their journey in the film is defined by expectations of their destiny, whether they choose to commit to or defy what is expected. Rey in TLJ by contrast has no destiny. Kylo even tells her outright "you have no place in this story". On a character level it's interesting as what she wants is to find her place in the universe, whether it's a role she needs to go against or something she needs to strive towards, being told she has no place is devastating for her, but, leads to her to realise that she gets to define who she is outside of any expectation. At least until ROS balls it up. Luke wasn't considered special because he was the son of the chosen one, it was because they considered that they read the prophecy wrong and HE was actually the chosen one. Yoda even says "misread the prophecy may have been" or something to that effect, and in their final duel on Tatooine Maul figured out that Kenobi was protecting someone there and after Obi-Wan cuts him down Maul asks him if he is protecting the Chosen One and Kenobi says yes. So yeah there is a truth to the fact that the Chosen One is special, but there isn't anything hard ruled about the offspring being for sure a continuance of that power as Luke was not as powerful as Anakin for instance. You could also take Snoke saying that to Kylo Ren just being another way to manipulate him, since he knows he is obsessed with his family legacy and specifically Vader. Palpatine is basically just the perfect encapsulation of a dark side user, he's extremely powerful in the force and filled with hate, greed, anger, etc. that all fuel the dark side even more. Yoda is explicitly stated to have a high midiclorian count (I know, I know) so he isn't just powerful because he is old. Dooku and Mace Windu also aren't from special families either, and they both were extremely gifted and in that same area of Force mastery. Nodoze fucked around with this message at 13:46 on Jun 6, 2022 |
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Jun 6, 2022 13:44
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Nodoze posted:Rey isn't a mary sue because she is a woman, it's because she is a badly written character. She could have been a good character with better writing and a better story instead of mystery box WHO IS SHE?? for three movies Yeah Anakin and Luke would have been Mary Sues if they hadn’t spent all that time training and still lost a hand by the first Sith they met.
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Jun 6, 2022 13:47
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If anybody is a Mary Sue in Star Wars it's Sabine.
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Jun 6, 2022 13:48
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Doctor Spaceman posted:If anybody is a Mary Sue in Star Wars it's Sabine. When you're designed to be a hot topic icon it's kinds hard not to be. Galaga Galaxian posted:Avellone sucks. Just throw kreia’s bullshit in the dumpster. Sucks in real life but I wouldn't call him a bad writer. It's more that people listen to Kreia's rambling and take away the wrong lessons, and ad a result you get people gravitating towards particular scenes as being these deep insightful moments when the opposite is true. The biggest one is the homeless man on Nar Shaddaa where she yells at you if you are nice or mean to him. The takeaway that too many people had was that it's better to not choose and avoid the issue. The real lesson has little to do with her chastising you. The real lesson that the game is trying to impart is to understand the ramifications of your choices and learn how to live with them rather than taking an action to fulfill an arbitrary lightside darkside quota. Kreia is wrong on a lot of things and she's a stubborn jerk about them, and I think the game wants you to challenge those notions rather than blindly agreeing with her. Otherwise there wouldn't be moments where you can poke holes in her arguments and she concedes a point thanks to information she hadn't considered before. She's not the end all, she's one person's mouthpiece for his frustrations with Star Wars but she's not the authority on the subject. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 14:19 on Jun 6, 2022 |
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Jun 6, 2022 14:10
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Sabine was definitely hard for me to swallow. Cool Mandalorian who customized her armor to look punky badass, and throws up sick tags wherever she plants a bomb. Not meant for me, I know. I know this,
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Jun 6, 2022 14:14
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Nodoze posted:Rey isn't a mary sue because she is a woman, it's because she is a badly written character. She could have been a good character with better writing and a better story instead of mystery box WHO IS SHE?? for three movies She should have been a failed attempt to make a second Luke and she should have turned evil.
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Jun 6, 2022 15:10
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Sash! posted:She should have been a failed attempt to make a second Luke and she should have turned evil. "ST stands for Skywalker Training Simulation. It's a development program to artificially reproduce Luke Skywalker, the perfect Jedi. The result is a jedi scavenger when the jedi no longer exist, a simulated Luke Skywalker shaped by rhyming poetry regimen. Sound like someone you know... Rey? Im sorry to see you reduced to one of Lucasfilm's puppets, but I've made use of you."
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Jun 6, 2022 15:16
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So to try to bring the thread back to TV show discussion (there is a movie thread, you know), I've been thinking (and I'm largely stealing this conclusion from the Mr. Sunday Movies guys on YouTube) about why the running and chases in Kenobi look so weird, and it's probably because of the Volume. As good as it is, it's not the Holodeck. It has walls. So you can't just run full bore without running into one. Hence Leia just kind of walking away from grown men trying to kidnap her (for a little while, until they catch her). Hence Obi-Wan briskly walking away from Vader. It's a somewhat understandable problem. But god dammit, they have got to figure out a better way to shoot around it. Like, and I'm just spitballing here, don't write running into your scenes? thrawn527 fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Jun 6, 2022 |
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Jun 6, 2022 15:24
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Sash! posted:She should have been a failed attempt to make a second Luke and she should have turned evil. If he hadn't killed Han Solo there was an amazing sequel trilogy they could have done where Kylo Ren and Rey totally switched by the end.
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Jun 6, 2022 15:27
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Anita Dickinme posted:Yeah Anakin and Luke would have been Mary Sues if they hadn’t spent all that time training and still lost a hand by the first Sith they met. Anakin definitely can't be a Mary Sue because his decisions ultimately lead to him losing everything he cared about and burning all his bridges. And lots of suffering. Ndooze posted:Rey isn't a mary sue because she is a woman, it's because she is a badly written character. She could have been a good character with better writing and a better story instead of mystery box WHO IS SHE?? for three movies Easiest fix for Rey would've been just being a Jedi pupil of a still-standing Jedi Academy. Why is she so good at everything? Because of natural talent and a ton of training that happened off screen. Instead we got soft-reset of the OT, with less interacting character interaction.
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Jun 6, 2022 15:33
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I watched a handful of episodes from the new seasons of Stranger Things and The Boys this past weekend. The gap in quality between those shows and Obi-Wan is so hilarious but also frustrating, because clearly Disney could be throwing way more money behind Obi-Wan but instead were like "nah." Lol.
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Jun 6, 2022 15:33
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teagone posted:I watched a handful of episodes from the new seasons of Stranger Things and The Boys this past weekend. The gap in quality between those shows and Obi-Wan is so hilarious but also frustrating, because clearly Disney could be throwing way more money behind Obi-Wan but instead were like "nah." Lol. 100% this. Stranger Things makes Obi-Wan look like a 90s syndicated cable show in terms of production values. Also, it dunks on it in terms of storytelling and characterization. It's better in every way despite the cast of Kenobi trying their best with what they've been given.
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Jun 6, 2022 15:44
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teagone posted:I watched a handful of episodes from the new seasons of Stranger Things and The Boys this past weekend. The gap in quality between those shows and Obi-Wan is so hilarious but also frustrating, because clearly Disney could be throwing way more money behind Obi-Wan but instead were like "nah." Lol. It doesnt help that there's an already established fan base for Star Wars and a big chunk of it is so easy to please (Just set it in the Star Wars universe and throw recognizable names and lightsabers in it and they're happy) that Disney knows they really don't need to focus on quality. They knew once they got Ewan and Hayden back and slapped Obi Wan on there it would be an instant hit regardless. Same with Boba Fett. Mandalorian you can argue that because it was an original character with no affection from fans plus their first ever SW tv show they actually had to have the goal of making it "prestige" television. Just Chamber fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Jun 6, 2022 |
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Jun 6, 2022 15:47
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Isometric Bacon posted:Though if you asked me what I wanted out of this series, a confrontation with Kenobi and Vader would be pretty low on the list. Star Wars has a horrible habit of rehashing itself again and again or retconning stuff for lame reasons. (How many times has Darth Maul come back now?). So I figured another matchup would just cheapen the ANH and the end of ROTS. I generally enjoyed the episode too, and loved that Obi-Wan's reaction to this big, tense fight with Vader was to just...run away. It was one of the highlights of the episode to me, because it's both a pretty funny inversion of expectation and because it really rubs in just how low he's fallen. I loved him staring at the lightsaber beforehand too, wondering if he could or should use it. Which makes it kind of disappointing that when he does turn and flee Vader, that he just sedately jogs away and then activates the lightsaber with no real drama or emotional conviction anyway. The rest of the scene doesn't really live up to that beginning, beyond Vader grabbing him and dragging him through the fire. Which is brilliant, though again, undercut by the immediate aftermath. Not just Vader and the Stormtroopers being perturbed about a little pool of fire they should be able to walk through with their suits without issue, which Vader could probably snuff out using the Force anyway or which they could just walk around but because the female agent being there at all seemed kind of weird to me, both because she abandoned Leia to go back (which just seems like a stupid decision) and because she ran back through a hallway that Reva was implied to be running up and the two never met. Sure, sure, you can reason it out as being "Reva just went to the spaceport via another route rather than the underground railway" but the scene as shot suggests she went down the hallway so it just comes off awkward. The fact Vader tosses Obi-Wan in the fire and drags him around does kind of gently caress with the whole "when last we met, you were the Master and I, the apprentice" thing too, but frankly, for a good scene I don't care and the show is welcome to tramp all over canon if it makes for good TV in my opinion. I do think the fire thing would have worked better as part of a second confrontation after Obi-Wan simply ran from this one though, though that means another Vader fight and the Inquisitors feeling even more incidental or Vader catching Obi-Wan basically immediately without the chase and with a better execution of him escaping afterwards. That said, a lot of the episode leading up to that like Obi-Wan fixing the droid and realizing there's more of a Rebellion against the Empire than he thought etc. were nice regardless. It just feels like maybe Reva should have been the only Inquisitor in the show, beyond maybe interacting with one other in a minor scene in the Citadel on the water planet to emphasize they are an organization, because they feel kind of pointless. Not even unthreatening, which the rest trying to be fussy office workers who think Reva is out of line helps emphasize, but just kind of pointless, since Vader will obviously have a greater role going forward. Nodoze posted:Luke wasn't considered special because he was the son of the chosen one Was there even anything about a chosen one in the original films? I'm not a huge fan of the films, but I thought Obi-Wan wanted to train Luke because he was Vader's child, rather than because of any prophecy? Luke manages a lot in A New Hope, but he ultimately fails despite his power in The Empire Strikes Back and he ultimately loses in The Return of the Jedi and it's Vader who actually defeats and kills the Emperor. Luke's great contribution was to believe in his father, not to be a particularly powerful Jedi. tsob fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Jun 6, 2022 |
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Jun 6, 2022 15:51
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thrawn527 posted:So to try to bring the thread back to TV show discussion (there is a movie thread, you know), I've been thinking (and I'm largely stealing this conclusion from the Mr. Sunday Movies guys on YouTube) about why the running and chases in Kenobi look so weird, and it's probably because of the Volume. As good as it is, it's not the Holodeck. It has walls. So you can't just run full bore without running into one. Hence Leia just kind of walking away from grown men trying to kidnap her (for a little while, until they catch her). Hence Obi-Wan briskly walking away from Vader. I think the best answer would be to use a variation of the volume where you've got the volume display rear projected on one side as a large screen across the entire wall and that gives you more straight lines to run down.
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Jun 6, 2022 15:58
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The best answer is obviously treadmills.
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Jun 6, 2022 15:59
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The best answer is to spend more money, pay your production crews better, don't rely on the volume as a creative crutch, and also spend more money. If there were any show on Disney+ that deserves a prestige-class budget, it's the god drat Obi-Wan show.
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Jun 6, 2022 16:01
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tsob posted:
There wasn't any talk of a chosen one in episodes 4-6, just that the Force runs strong in the Skywalker family. That was added in 1-3 and, in my opinion, was unnecessary for that story except as a way to nod and go "okay the Sith are REALLY extinct now."
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Jun 6, 2022 16:13
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I'm rewatching Mandalorian and I find myself rooting for the Jawas in Episode 2. Jawas are the loving best.
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Jun 6, 2022 16:18
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Arc Hammer posted:I think the best answer would be to use a variation of the volume where you've got the volume display rear projected on one side as a large screen across the entire wall and that gives you more straight lines to run down. maybe they could try going outside
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Jun 6, 2022 16:32
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Brawnfire posted:I'm rewatching Mandalorian and I find myself rooting for the Jawas in Episode 2. Jawas are the loving best. Their depiction has been a high point of all the Filoni/Favreau TV shows, even in the recent Obi Wan episode. The Tuskens as well.
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Jun 6, 2022 16:33
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site posted:maybe they could try going outside At a TV budget, that leads inevitably to the Dr. Who problem of everything being shot in that one quarry.
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Jun 6, 2022 16:34
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this isn't the cw, if Disney gave a poo poo they could easily afford it
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Jun 6, 2022 16:36
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tsob posted:
There was not, there's only one line from Obi-Wan about how "The Emperor knew, as I did, if Vader ever had any kids, they would be a threat to him." And Obi-Wan calls Luke their "last hope" before Yoda mentions "No, there is another." I'd argue Luke didn't lose so much as refuse to play by the Emperor's rules; he refused to give in to his anger but instead gave into love of his sister to defeat Vader, but refused to kill him. He kept trying to give his dad an example of what he could still be, and that helped push Vader back to the Light. Maybe it's just too much oldEU viewing of Luke, but I agree his main reason for triumph was believing in his father, not just powerhousing through everything. Doesn't mean he wasn't powerful by the end though.
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Jun 6, 2022 16:36
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Cartoon Man posted:Their depiction has been a high point of all the Filoni/Favreau TV shows, even in the recent Obi Wan episode. The Tuskens as well. I like that you can't understand them, but you know what motivates them, their outsider nature forces main characters to deal with them on the Jawa's terms, and they work together in this delightfully chaotic way. If anyone's seen Moana those coconut guys are pretty similar, I loved them too.
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Jun 6, 2022 16:39
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Brawnfire posted:I like that you can't understand them, but you know what motivates them, their outsider nature forces main characters to deal with them on the Jawa's terms, and they work together in this delightfully chaotic way. I loved it when they pimped out their sandcrawler.  
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Jun 6, 2022 16:42
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thrawn527 posted:So to try to bring the thread back to TV show discussion (there is a movie thread, you know), I've been thinking (and I'm largely stealing this conclusion from the Mr. Sunday Movies guys on YouTube) about why the running and chases in Kenobi look so weird, and it's probably because of the Volume. As good as it is, it's not the Holodeck. It has walls. So you can't just run full bore without running into one. Hence Leia just kind of walking away from grown men trying to kidnap her (for a little while, until they catch her). Hence Obi-Wan briskly walking away from Vader. Was the Leia forest chase scene filmed in the Volume? That looked like it was actually on-location, but I only watched it once so I may be misremembering. And that was the only bad Leia chase, the Leia chase on the Blade Runner planet was fine (aside from the fact that it was weird to have "leia gets chased" scenes in back to back episodes)
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Jun 6, 2022 16:48
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Cartoon Man posted:I loved it when they pimped out their sandcrawler. Lmao they're just so cool, team Jawa 4 lyfe
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Jun 6, 2022 16:52
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OldSenileGuy posted:the Leia chase on the Blade Runner planet was fine (aside from the fact that it was weird to have "leia gets chased" scenes in back to back episodes) No it wasn't, you had obi wan struggling to catch up to a small 10 year old
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Jun 6, 2022 16:52
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You had Obi-Wan trying to keep a low profile and not draw attention to himself while still trying to catch a 10 year old girl that was running under tables and throughout crowds and stuff. It was classic "small person in big crowd is hard to catch". It was fine. That's probably what they were going for as well with the forest chase, but it just didn't work there because we were meant to believe that these hardened criminals were foiled by a branch being in the path.
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Jun 6, 2022 17:09
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:Maybe it's just too much oldEU viewing of Luke, but I agree his main reason for triumph was believing in his father, not just powerhousing through everything. Doesn't mean he wasn't powerful by the end though. Oh, I don't think that Luke wasn't powerful; just that his power was not what saved the day in the end. Nor does it do him much good in Empire Strikes Back. Actually, I'm not sure being a powerful Jedi actually saves the day in any of the 3 movies for Luke, because even the climax of A New Hope is just him listening to Obi-Wan's force ghost and firing some torpedoes. Which is predicated on the Force itself, but doesn't really seem like it's that much about power so much as faith. His power sometimes got him to places, or helped him survive long enough to do something but his power was never what actually clinched anything in the films. About the biggest win he gets in that regard is saving Han, and even then, Jabba manages to set him back and it required a good bit of help and wasn't really about any kind of overwhelming power. He mostly just swung his lightsaber good. The use of the Force was mostly just in charming his way into Jabba's audience. Although, I suppose, that was back when using a lightsaber was implied to require some use of the Force in and of itself in some undefined way. So you could say that alone was impressive. tsob fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Jun 6, 2022 |
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Jun 6, 2022 17:10
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site posted:maybe they could try going outside They do from time to time. And I've got a hunch that a good chunk of the exterior scenes on Mapuzo were also filmed outdoors.
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Jun 6, 2022 17:13
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Brawnfire posted:Sabine was definitely hard for me to swallow. Cool Mandalorian who customized her armor to look punky badass, and throws up sick tags wherever she plants a bomb. Not meant for me, I know. I know this, "I made weapons, terrible weapons" being said by a 16 year old was definitely a moment. It was like when Anakin was revealed to be some expert droid and podracing engineer at age 8, but then you could kind of write it off by thinking maybe it's like how putting a PC together by following the manual is like working with legos, at first slightly more believable because she's older, but then a level beyond this by saying Sabine was doing groundbreaking work on weapons of mass destruction. Maybe people on the Internet are mad at inexplicable prodigies in sci-fi because we want them to be as mediocre as we are. Nah, it's the bad writing galenanorth fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Jun 6, 2022 |
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Jun 6, 2022 17:29
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Jun 6, 2022 17:46
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The entire planet is basically a war culture and barely survived with Satine and you think, "this is unbelievable that a child was raised to make weapons.". Ok. 🙄
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Jun 6, 2022 17:47
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tsob posted:Oh, I don't think that Luke wasn't powerful; just that his power was not what saved the day in the end. Nor does it do him much good in Empire Strikes Back. Actually, I'm not sure being a powerful Jedi actually saves the day in any of the 3 movies for Luke, Which is mostly good. It's like superhero stories, where it's often about some special plan or insight that defeats the villain and not purely a contest of powers vs. powers.
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Jun 6, 2022 17:58
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Quit having fun really should be the thread title.
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Jun 6, 2022 18:04
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Cartoon Man posted:Their depiction has been a high point of all the Filoni/Favreau TV shows, even in the recent Obi Wan episode. The Tuskens as well. Isn't Kenobi talking to the Jawa in his cave also the only time we've had subtitles for a Jawa?
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Jun 6, 2022 18:09
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Nope the Jawas were subtitled during episode 2 of Mando where they make fun of his accent.
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Jun 6, 2022 18:18
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lol at complaing about ANH canon breaking when Rogue One exists maybe Kenobi season 2 can have the missing Tie Fighter scene in it
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