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Improbable Lobster: Jan 6, 2012; "From each according to his ability" said Ares. It sounded like a quotation.; Buglord

Now parge the lathe

# ? Jun 6, 2022 22:30

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# ? May 23, 2024 11:00

ijyt: Apr 10, 2012

Improbable Lobster posted:

Now parge the lathe

i did that once, can't have kids now

# ? Jun 6, 2022 22:35

smug jeebus: Oct 26, 2008

Ghazk posted:

Intro to Warhammer 30K The Horus Heresy � Choosing a Legion
30,000 words

I just want to field a lot of tanks

# ? Jun 6, 2022 22:41

Nancy: Nov 23, 2005; Young Orc

Don't have to pick a legion if you buy 18 (20) boxes and then do all of them.

I think I'm going to convert all my Legionnaires with Godwyn pattern bolters so I can accurately match the new Legion Scout Squad.

# ? Jun 6, 2022 22:43

Eediot Jedi: Dec 25, 2007; This is where I begin to speculate what being a
man of my word costs me

Ghazk posted:

Intro to Warhammer 30K The Horus Heresy – Choosing a Legion

If you read this and it makes sense, iron warriors. If you bookmarked it for later thousand sons. If you know you could do it better, emperor's children. If you slogged through it despite not understanding, death guard. If you said "too many words", space wolves or world eaters depending on how violent you feel towards the author.

# ? Jun 6, 2022 22:48

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Ghazk posted:

Intro to Warhammer 30K The Horus Heresy � Choosing a Legion

One of the axioms of modern wargaming is an accurate representation of a force within a known chaotic theatre. Relative final state varies from game system to game system but are not entirely unrelated. Idealized linear resolution of choice based on parameters such as �it looks cool� or it �performs well� in much simpler systems such as Warhammer 40,000 are pedestrian in nature and the Horus Heresy requires a more nondeterministic approach that exhibits divergence from predictable trajectories. The nonlinearity implies loss of causality between the perturbation of the setting and the effects propagated in time. Players looking for basic requirements for choosing a legion to represent in the Horus Heresy game system will find basic requirements outlined below.

The initial thought many players new to the Horus Heresy system have is �Systems that begin with known, but slightly changed initial conditions result in completely different outcomes. How can choosing a legion be resolved without infinite prediction?� It is a legitimate question, but fortunately, there exists a system for reducing complex systems to elementary models for some values of the parameters. Let�s explore these parameters:

Step 1 � Faction Factor
Faction factor as a percent of deviation of current utilization can be expressed as

Remember that a positive sensitivity parameter is required for the Horus Heresy. Using a negative sensitivity parameter will still compile but implies a Dornian Heresy and additional correction factors must be accounted for.

Step 2 � Legion Balance
Legion balance is a linear function depending on current deployment rates weighted against the corresponding rates for the last period written as the expected stable value.

These coefficients are required to be greater than zero because the assumption is being made that your collection will both increase, and your compromise probability became deterministic upon visiting the Forgeworld website and deciding to invest in the Horus Heresy.

Step 3 � Picking a Legion
Once Faction Factor and Legion Balance has been determined, one must consult the Legion Ally Matrix which is presented in several publications, but poorly explained. It is presented below (Fig. 1) and recreated again on the right (Fig.2) in a mathematically approachable version where relationship levels have been converted to a numerical representation.

With a known faction factor percentage and legion balance value determined, cross reference them against the dot product of sets containing desired legion traits, which are shown as vertical bars. Under certain circumstances, logistic crisis can arise in the interval tendencies. In these cases, turnover can be achieved by comparing armor color assets to the bifurcation diagram (Fig. 3). Note that this is applicable only to power armor MK6 and earlier.

Don�t forget to list the cardinality of sets that feed into your scalar product consideration on your army list. This value is often used to determine who is the aggressor in a scenario, as well as who is the traitor/loyalist when a single legion is subjected to infighting. It can be very embarrassing to be the only player at the narrative event to be disqualified for having an unstable bijection.
As you can see, a lot more goes into choosing a legion than one might suspect at first glance. I hope this guide helps clarify the process for you as a new player.

# ? Jun 6, 2022 23:27

Communist Thoughts: Jan 7, 2008; Our war against free speech cannot end until we silence this bronze beast!

Must resist the urge to print out 2 30k armies for me and whoever I can strong arm into playing

Alpha legion tho
Luna wolves tho

# ? Jun 6, 2022 23:37

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

3d printed Alpha Legion is pretty on brand

# ? Jun 7, 2022 00:00

Der Waffle Mous: Nov 27, 2009; In the grim future, there is only commerce.

that's the logic I'm working with.

# ? Jun 7, 2022 00:11

BirdieBedtime: Apr 1, 2011

I'm insulted that none of those graphs made a goatse, not even if I squinted. Shame. (Or have I been fooled?)

# ? Jun 7, 2022 00:41

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

You think mathhammer is a joke? You think this is a narrative game??

# ? Jun 7, 2022 00:45

Bored Online: May 25, 2009; We don't need Rome telling us what to do.

Eediot Jedi posted:

If you read this and it makes sense, iron warriors. If you bookmarked it for later thousand sons. If you know you could do it better, emperor's children. If you slogged through it despite not understanding, death guard. If you said "too many words", space wolves or world eaters depending on how violent you feel towards the author.

This legion selection system works.

# ? Jun 7, 2022 01:04

Salynne: Oct 25, 2007

Eediot Jedi posted:

If you read this and it makes sense, iron warriors. If you bookmarked it for later thousand sons. If you know you could do it better, emperor's children. If you slogged through it despite not understanding, death guard. If you said "too many words", space wolves or world eaters depending on how violent you feel towards the author.

Ghazk posted:

Intro to Warhammer 30K The Horus Heresy � Choosing a Legion

One of the axioms of modern wargaming is an accurate representation of a force within a known chaotic theatre. Relative final state varies from game system to game system but are not entirely unrelated. Idealized linear resolution of choice based on parameters such as �it looks cool� or it �performs well� in much simpler systems such as Warhammer 40,000 are pedestrian in nature and the Horus Heresy requires a more nondeterministic approach that exhibits divergence from predictable trajectories. The nonlinearity implies loss of causality between the perturbation of the setting and the effects propagated in time. Players looking for basic requirements for choosing a legion to represent in the Horus Heresy game system will find basic requirements outlined below.

The initial thought many players new to the Horus Heresy system have is �Systems that begin with known, but slightly changed initial conditions result in completely different outcomes. How can choosing a legion be resolved without infinite prediction?� It is a legitimate question, but fortunately, there exists a system for reducing complex systems to elementary models for some values of the parameters. Let�s explore these parameters:

Step 1 � Faction Factor
Faction factor as a percent of deviation of current utilization can be expressed as

Remember that a positive sensitivity parameter is required for the Horus Heresy. Using a negative sensitivity parameter will still compile but implies a Dornian Heresy and additional correction factors must be accounted for.

Step 2 � Legion Balance
Legion balance is a linear function depending on current deployment rates weighted against the corresponding rates for the last period written as the expected stable value.

These coefficients are required to be greater than zero because the assumption is being made that your collection will both increase, and your compromise probability became deterministic upon visiting the Forgeworld website and deciding to invest in the Horus Heresy.

Step 3 � Picking a Legion
Once Faction Factor and Legion Balance has been determined, one must consult the Legion Ally Matrix which is presented in several publications, but poorly explained. It is presented below (Fig. 1) and recreated again on the right (Fig.2) in a mathematically approachable version where relationship levels have been converted to a numerical representation.

With a known faction factor percentage and legion balance value determined, cross reference them against the dot product of sets containing desired legion traits, which are shown as vertical bars. Under certain circumstances, logistic crisis can arise in the interval tendencies. In these cases, turnover can be achieved by comparing armor color assets to the bifurcation diagram (Fig. 3). Note that this is applicable only to power armor MK6 and earlier.

Don�t forget to list the cardinality of sets that feed into your scalar product consideration on your army list. This value is often used to determine who is the aggressor in a scenario, as well as who is the traitor/loyalist when a single legion is subjected to infighting. It can be very embarrassing to be the only player at the narrative event to be disqualified for having an unstable bijection.
As you can see, a lot more goes into choosing a legion than one might suspect at first glance. I hope this guide helps clarify the process for you as a new player.

I can do better.

# ? Jun 7, 2022 01:24

panascope: Mar 26, 2005

This squad is 2/3 done. After this is 10 more tacs.

# ? Jun 7, 2022 03:27

Gato The Elder: Apr 14, 2006; Pillbug

Ghazk posted:

Intro to Warhammer 30K The Horus Heresy � Choosing a Legion

That's a penis

# ? Jun 7, 2022 03:32

War and Pieces: Apr 24, 2022; DID NOT VOTE FOR FETTERMAN

panascope posted:

This squad is 2/3 done. After this is 10 more tacs.

The Sons of Malal?

# ? Jun 7, 2022 04:19

DAD LOST MY IPOD: Feb 3, 2012; Fats Dominar is on the case

reticulate those splines

# ? Jun 7, 2022 04:26

Eediot Jedi: Dec 25, 2007; This is where I begin to speculate what being a
man of my word costs me

BirdieBedtime posted:

I'm insulted that none of those graphs made a goatse, not even if I squinted. Shame. (Or have I been fooled?)

Word bearers for sure. I'm so sorry.

# ? Jun 7, 2022 04:47

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

panascope posted:

This squad is 2/3 done. After this is 10 more tacs.

these are lovely, nice work

# ? Jun 7, 2022 05:30

lovestick: Feb 11, 2006; ~30303030303~

Major Spag posted:

Can you tell I am excited for 2.0? Because I am!

Other side of that spear

And here is the whole squad together

Look at all these fuckin' guys!

Mjr Spag your bases are great.

# ? Jun 7, 2022 05:35

JcDent: May 13, 2013; Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!

Jack B Nimble posted:

I'm going to have a very hard time letting go of the concept of the core infantry foundation being a ten man tactical squad with one assault weapon, one heavy weapon, and one close combat Sargent. However, I'll do my best to try it.

Yeah, as a bit of a milhist nerd, I can't bear all the "tacticals can deal with any situation" fluff when all they have are bolters.

Should have gone all Ancient CSM with them by not only giving them options to go 20 man and/or full melee, but also put in a heavy or special weapon in there as well.

# ? Jun 7, 2022 06:31

adamantium|wang: Sep 14, 2003; Missing you

"Any situation can be managed with sufficient application of bolters."

- Mortarion, probably

# ? Jun 7, 2022 07:04

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

# ? Jun 7, 2022 12:12

Eediot Jedi: Dec 25, 2007; This is where I begin to speculate what being a
man of my word costs me

Sons of Orruks?

# ? Jun 7, 2022 13:06

ijyt: Apr 10, 2012

# ? Jun 7, 2022 14:18

AnEdgelord: Dec 12, 2016

HH roadmap

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/06/07/warhammer-the-horus-heresy-road-map-the-age-is-dark-but-the-futures-bright/

Liber Mechanicum and Liber Imperium officially announced

# ? Jun 7, 2022 15:08

Count Thrashula: Jun 1, 2003; Death is nothing compared to vindication.; Buglord

AnEdgelord posted:

HH roadmap

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/06/07/warhammer-the-horus-heresy-road-map-the-age-is-dark-but-the-futures-bright/

Liber Mechanicum and Liber Imperium officially announced

Come onnnnnnn knights that I can add to my SoH army

# ? Jun 7, 2022 15:39

Lucinice: Feb 15, 2012; You look tired. Maybe you should stop posting.

I think I'm going to hold off on buying into HH until I see if a scene forms in my city. I was going to play with a friend but he changed his mind

# ? Jun 7, 2022 15:54

Sulecrist: Apr 5, 2007; Better tear off this bar association logo.

Be the change you want to see in the world.

Here�s Maloghurst, the last model I finished (except for pigments/base) for the previous edition, and Infractum Harod, the first model I finished for the new one:

# ? Jun 7, 2022 16:21

panascope: Mar 26, 2005

One claw to snip you while you�re lookin, one claw to drill you while you ain�t

# ? Jun 7, 2022 16:23

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Eediot Jedi posted:

Sons of Orruks?

loyalists of course

traitor White Scars project

BULBASAUR fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Jun 7, 2022

# ? Jun 7, 2022 16:30

Lovely Joe Stalin: Jun 12, 2007; Our Lovely Wang

The ol' snippy drilly.

# ? Jun 7, 2022 16:51

DAD LOST MY IPOD: Feb 3, 2012; Fats Dominar is on the case

I�m really interested in the AL ability to take other legions� unique troops, since the literal only thing I don�t love about the AL is how dull headhunters/lernaeans are. Do we have any detail yet on just how that�s done? You just� get one? Is there a WLT and Rite that lets you get more?

# ? Jun 7, 2022 17:25

JcDent: May 13, 2013; Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!

AnEdgelord posted:

HH roadmap

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/06/07/warhammer-the-horus-heresy-road-map-the-age-is-dark-but-the-futures-bright/

Liber Mechanicum and Liber Imperium officially announced

On one hand, Militia won't get a book

On the other hand, Militia gets a PDF

# ? Jun 7, 2022 18:29

Marshal Prolapse: Jun 23, 2012; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

AnEdgelord posted:

HH roadmap

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/06/07/warhammer-the-horus-heresy-road-map-the-age-is-dark-but-the-futures-bright/

Liber Mechanicum and Liber Imperium officially announced

It�s going to be amazing to have so much more lore and stats AND books you can use for self defense in a pinch.

# ? Jun 7, 2022 18:30

Broken Record Talk: Jul 28, 2009; A three-hundred thousand degree baptism by nuclear fire;
we had it coming.

DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:

I�m really interested in the AL ability to take other legions� unique troops, since the literal only thing I don�t love about the AL is how dull headhunters/lernaeans are. Do we have any detail yet on just how that�s done? You just� get one? Is there a WLT and Rite that lets you get more?

The Alpha Legion stuff already leaked, so you can see it here: https://imgur.com/a/biDO2Pv

Looks like you get a single squad of a single unit by default, but the RoW "The Coils of the Hydra" lets you take three squads of that single unit.

It does not look like you will be able to run an AL army that is comprised of a bunch of different types of enemy units, which I imagine has to do with the pain of trying to balance that kind of thing. Not sure too many people want to play against units of Invictus Suzerains screening Tyrant Siege Terminators, while Dawnbreakers deep strike behind and wipe out their backfield. Cool as hell, for sure, but probably not something they're going to encourage with the rules!

Also worth pointing out that Headhunters are absolutely amazing this edition, and anyone telling you the opposite (there seems to be a lot of hate towards them in some parts of the internet) really probably hasn't looked too closely at their new rules. A 225 point unit of 10 guys, who can Infiltrate AND Scout, firing TL BS5 (so a 97% hit rate) S5 Bolters that are AP2 on a 6, and wound whomever you choose on a 4+ are absolutely disgustingly good.

Lernaen Terminators ARE pretty boring, but if you look at their "Hydran Exemplars" special rule, they'll be effectively WS5/BS5 against any other Space Marine army, which is HUGE. Plus, they have the same 5+ IWND rule that the Salamanders special Terminators get. Boring for sure, but sometimes boring can be pretty good - take Raldoron in HH 1E, for example!

Broken Record Talk fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Jun 7, 2022

# ? Jun 7, 2022 18:32

DAD LOST MY IPOD: Feb 3, 2012; Fats Dominar is on the case

Broken Record Talk posted:

The Alpha Legion stuff already leaked, so you can see it here: https://imgur.com/a/biDO2Pv

Looks like you get a single squad of a single unit by default, but the RoW "The Coils of the Hydra" lets you take three squads of that single unit.

It does not look like you will be able to run an AL army that is comprised of a bunch of different types of enemy units, which I imagine has to do with the pain of trying to balance that kind of thing. Not sure too many people want to play against units of Invictus Suzerains screening Tyrant Siege Terminators, while Dawnbreakers deep strike behind and wipe out their backfield. Cool as hell, for sure, but probably not something they're going to encourage with the rules!

Also worth pointing out that Headhunters are absolutely amazing this edition, and anyone telling you the opposite (there seems to be a lot of hate towards them in some parts of the internet) really probably hasn't looked too closely at their new rules. A 225 point unit of 10 guys, who can Infiltrate AND Scout, firing TL BS5 S5 Bolters that are AP2 on a 6, and wound whomever you choose on a 4+ are absolutely disgustingly good.

Lernaen Terminators ARE pretty boring, but if you look at their "Hydran Exemplars" special rule, they'll be effectively WS5/BS5 against any other Space Marine army, which is HUGE. Plus, they have the same 5+ IWND rule that the Salamanders special Terminators get. Boring for sure, but sometimes boring can be pretty good - take Raldoron in HH 1E, for example!

Oh, that�s cool! Headhunters are a resin upgrade kit (and it�s a hundred friggin� bucks to upgrade ten dudes, what?!). What armor mark do they go with? And are they coming to plastic?

# ? Jun 7, 2022 18:35

JcDent: May 13, 2013; Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!

Grave Wardens are still the only termies I care about :stwoon:

# ? Jun 7, 2022 18:36

Yvonmukluk: Oct 10, 2012; Everything is Sinister

DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:

I�m really interested in the AL ability to take other legions� unique troops, since the literal only thing I don�t love about the AL is how dull headhunters/lernaeans are. Do we have any detail yet on just how that�s done? You just� get one? Is there a WLT and Rite that lets you get more?

IIRC there's a RoW (Coils of the Hydra) that gives you three and also buffs them.

Edit: thoroughly beaten.

# ? Jun 7, 2022 18:37

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# ? May 23, 2024 11:00

Broken Record Talk: Jul 28, 2009; A three-hundred thousand degree baptism by nuclear fire;
we had it coming.

DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:

Oh, that�s cool! Headhunters are a resin upgrade kit (and it�s a hundred friggin� bucks to upgrade ten dudes, what?!). What armor mark do they go with? And are they coming to plastic?

Yeah, they're actually pretty awesome. I think a lot of people are underestimating just how friggin' strong the AL rules are. Even the simple "you count as being 2" further away" rule is going to be huge.

Yep, the Headhunters upgrade kit is like $100, and there's just no good way to spin it; the resin FW stuff is ridiculously overpriced, and as of right now, GW/FW plans on keeping all the legion-specific stuff in resin, so that isn't going to change any time soon. However, there are very easy and widespread ways to get an identical product for a lot less money *cough*. The good news is, that this set is fully compatible with the new plastic MkVI kit, as long as you are comfortable snipping off the plastic torso (which is directly attached to the legs in the new design) and gluing on the resin torsos.

As an added bonus, the AL is typically depicted in MkVI armor and is said to have favored it for its' advanced sensors and lighter weight design. The AL is not particularly known for being a "stand and fight" legion, so the extra speed, sneakiness, and battlefield awareness/coordination afforded by it more than outweighed its slightly reduced armor plating (none of which has any bearing on their game rules). This means all of the glorious new cheap plastic MkVI is going to be your bread and butter. Never been a better time to start an AL army.

You should hit up Bulbasaur's DMs for an invite to the thread Slack.

# ? Jun 7, 2022 18:45

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Warhammer 30k 2.0 - 40k Falls, Heresy Rises

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