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One of the big differences, in my mind, is one of space. Moon Knight (for example) had 20 pages of story in May, while looking at my Shonen Jump app, My Hero Academia had 45. The pace of a story and by extension the panelling are going to be wildly different as you're looking A) different pagecounts and B) different publication schedules- 20 pages once a month is necessarily going to tell a story in a different way than 15 pages, three times a month will.
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Jun 7, 2022 17:53
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Aren't some older mangas also 20 pages a month, like from the 70s? I recall Black Jack breaking the fourth wall saying he had to wrap up this surgery quick because there's only 20 pages. Captain Harlock is another one but has pacing issues and I think it's because of it. Only key events are highlighted none of the filler character building in between stuff you'd expect. Even in the remake manga there was a hell of a jump between major plot points of gathering intel on the enemy and I thought I missed something. However Ablaze Publishing put out an approved side story that was way better paced, but idk if it was because it was written by a westerner, or if it just was that some one else wrote it in general and the original author alone is really to blame for the over condensing of the plot.
Turbinosamente fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Jun 7, 2022 |
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Jun 7, 2022 18:24
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Endless Mike posted:There was an article I read awhile ago comparing action pacing of American comics vs. Japanese manga and I'm not sure where it was (might have even been something David Brothers wrote?). I think a big part the difference definitely comes down to pacing, and not just action. Manga, by and large, reads a lot faster than most American comics. But it also lingers on moments longer. Maybe because it reads faster, you can have multiple panels or pages that focus on a reaction to a single event that would just feel out of place in American comics. I don't know that I'd agree with the layout comment though. Lots of manga is good at it (smaller pages / less panels helps), but lots of manga isn't. That said... I think most artists who work on american comics are familiar with manga at this point and vice versa. Different styles still exist, but you can find lots of influence going both ways. Same for european comics. To me the #1 difference between big 2 comics and manga is that the big 2 are rarely single creator-led endeavours. Manga obviously includes lots of people particularly when it's successful, but the proportion of creators who are real cartoonists responsible for both art and story are a lot higher than in traditional american comics.
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Jun 7, 2022 18:39
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Very true, though I wonder how much creative control all manga have. In a Fist of the North Star collection there was an intro by the editor talking about how he came up with the idea of using acupressure points to kill etc, and then the artist and writer fleshed it out. But aside from stuff like that, I wonder if a Shounen Jump title has ideas turned down or direction given at times, like an American comic does. But it also seems we have less behind the scenes info on manga. Another difference is manga having assistants drawing backgrounds and stuff like that, less common in US books. Both American comics and manga have trends, and looking at the manga section with all the Isekai titles, stuff like that, all the manga on certain topics like sports and school clubs etc, I wonder if it's not entirely creator driven like an independently published comic. Though maybe they'd just have to make a pitch to get it serialized in the first place. And it can be dropped, so maybe there's some back and forth. Hopefully they do give a good bit of creative control though. Maybe a bit like 2000AD. All just speculation on my part here.
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Jun 7, 2022 21:12
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Different magazines have different amounts of editorial control and some editors influence the series more than others. Shonen Jump, for instance, has a good deal more editorial control than other magazines, but the good editors largely let the creators have the bulk of the creative control and give feedback rather than directions
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Jun 7, 2022 21:16
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That makes sense. As long as One Piece gets a good ending, I'm content. Go Oda go!
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Jun 7, 2022 21:23
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I sorta remember reading that Akira Toriyama's editor kept pushing that the androids weren't a big enough villain story wise and that's how that story morphed into the cell saga in dbz in some interview somewhere, so I'm under an assumption that the editors have some sizable influence on manga creators.
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Jun 7, 2022 21:40
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Turbinosamente posted:I sorta remember reading that Akira Toriyama's editor kept pushing that the androids weren't a big enough villain story wise and that's how that story morphed into the cell saga in dbz in some interview somewhere, so I'm under an assumption that the editors have some sizable influence on manga creators. Yeah, they thought Androids 19 and 20 looked stupid so Toriyama made 17 & 18, then they said they didn't look threatening so he made Cell, then they said Cell didn't look cool so eventually we got Perfect Cell.
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Jun 7, 2022 21:49
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Turbinosamente posted:I sorta remember reading that Akira Toriyama's editor kept pushing that the androids weren't a big enough villain story wise and that's how that story morphed into the cell saga in dbz in some interview somewhere, so I'm under an assumption that the editors have some sizable influence on manga creators. He was actually Toriyama’s ex-editor at the time
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Jun 7, 2022 22:26
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Turbinosamente posted:I sorta remember reading that Akira Toriyama's editor kept pushing that the androids weren't a big enough villain story wise and that's how that story morphed into the cell saga in dbz in some interview somewhere, so I'm under an assumption that the editors have some sizable influence on manga creators. I've never been clear on how much influence editors have over manga creators, but it does seem like 'a lot.' I've heard stories part of the reason Bleach was the way it was because his editor kept telling Kubo to make it like either DBZ or One Piece instead of doing its own thing. Even Jujutsu Kaisen seems to have devolved into the ever escalating power level thing, which is a shame.
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Jun 8, 2022 00:01
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Dawgstar posted:I've never been clear on how much influence editors have over manga creators, but it does seem like 'a lot.' I've heard stories part of the reason Bleach was the way it was because his editor kept telling Kubo to make it like either DBZ or One Piece instead of doing its own thing. Even Jujutsu Kaisen seems to have devolved into the ever escalating power level thing, which is a shame. I think from things like Bakuman, Nozaki-kun and Aoi Honoo (among lots of other works that have manga development as either a focus or part of the plot) there's a range of editor types, but it definitely seems like often the editor is either a full on collaborator or a director and generally the buck stops with them.
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Jun 8, 2022 01:45
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Going back to an earlier point, there’s a number of monthly manga, although they tend to be about 30-something pages a month. So that’s still a fifty percent increase on pages over a twenty page monthly series. I wonder how much of that is because of not having a different person doing the coloring like a lot of comics do and how much of it is the manga industry still being a meatgrinder that doesn’t allow for breaks.
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Jun 8, 2022 04:17
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thetoughestbean posted:Going back to an earlier point, there’s a number of monthly manga, although they tend to be about 30-something pages a month. So that’s still a fifty percent increase on pages over a twenty page monthly series. I wonder how much of that is because of not having a different person doing the coloring like a lot of comics do and how much of it is the manga industry still being a meatgrinder that doesn’t allow for breaks. I think it's manga being a meat grinder mostly. Ultimate Spider-Man came out 18 times a year for 108 issues straight with a single writer and a single pencilist (couldn't tell you off hand if the inker or colorist changed) so coloring a comic is not the bottle neck for western comics.
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Jun 8, 2022 04:25
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I’ve been reading some of those twice-a-month 90s Larry Hama Wolverine comics, and they’re pretty rough, both in the rushed-looking art and the muddled storytelling. You can tell they were done in a hurry.
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Jun 8, 2022 04:27
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Skwirl posted:I think it's manga being a meat grinder mostly. Ultimate Spider-Man came out 18 times a year for 108 issues straight with a single writer and a single pencilist (couldn't tell you off hand if the inker or colorist changed) so coloring a comic is not the bottle neck for western comics. Not for nothing but Bagley was a machine, too. I think at one point he was doing both New Warriors and Amazing Spider-Man at the same time without a noticeable dip in quality.
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Jun 8, 2022 04:32
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King Baby posted:Wow thanks E&C, that really covers everything. I really miss that era (2006 - 2013) when I was an active consumer. So was the idea that regular DC stuff stayed with the main line? Wildstorm takes all the weird Superhero books like The Boys, Ex Machina, and Welcome to Tranquility? Vertigo gets the rest of the pulpy magic, Sci/fi, YA stuff like Y the last man, Fables, and The Northmen? So hypothetically all of the projects and contracts for Wildstorm books (which continued to include both Wildstorm Universe and creator-owned books, plus later licensed titles) were handled by a separate group from any of the DC offices in New York. The New York offices stepped in a few times, most notably when they made Mark Millar and his artists to tone down some of the bits showing real-life celebrities raping and/or graphically murdering people in the tail end of his Authority run, and then again when they were uncomfortable with some of the graphic murder and rape in The Boys. There were probably some less remembered interventions as well. Vertigo was originally just envisioned as a sub-imprint to place all of the pre-existing "mature dark fantasy" books already published and taking place in the DC Universe, but shortly before its launch Disney had recently scrapped a line of creator-owned comics (Touchmark, a companion to their Touchstone film studio) which they hired away DC editor Art Young to run. He came back to DC, and half of the creators working on those Touchmark books already were working at DC, so books like Enigma, Sebastian O, etc. ended up as part of the Vertigo launch line, which set the precedent for them doing non-DCU creator owned books. The lion's share of Vertigo was still DCU characters for the first few years, the Invisibles and Preacher were the first two ongoing creator-owned series to come out of Vertigo, both by creative teams who had been working on proto-Vertigo DCU books prior to that. DC attempted for years to keep Vertigo "dark fantasy" by introducing countless imprints (Paradox, Helix, Vertigo Verite, Focus, Minx) to cover not-superhero-but-not-dark-fantasy comics, but eventually pretty much all of those ended up getting absorbed into Vertigo, and then over the 2010s Vertigo went away too. This is a long-winded way of saying that the reason Ex Machina or The Boys were Wildstorm while Y the Last Man or War Stories were Vertigo really boiled down to Vaughn or Ennis pitching those books to different editors in different offices.
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Jun 8, 2022 05:31
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I remember seeing a panel of Master Pandemonium where his hands were demons and he couldn't eat, I think? Can someone link that for me?
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Jun 18, 2022 01:20
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Here's the sequence. it's from Ghost Rider
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Jun 18, 2022 03:14
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Opopanax posted:Here's the sequence. it's from Ghost Rider Thank you!
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Jun 18, 2022 03:49
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Right, so Saga recently came back, and based on events in said recent issues, I was wondering if there was something I forgot. Okay, so the whole thing is that Landfall (the planet with the winged people who use tech) and Wreath (the moon near Landfall with the horned people that use magic) 'always hated' each other and got into a war decades/centuries ago and it's ended up in the classic "No one even remembers why they started fighting but the hatred and sunk cost fallacy is now so deep that neither side will stop'. However, neither side can take the final step of destroying the planet or moon, because that would in turn destroy the other. So the two planets have 'exported' their war to the rest of the galaxy... How, exactly? Was it purely mercenary, a "help us fight and we'll get you things"? Did they both have enough power that they were basically able to force planets into being vassal states for them? Basically, considering the main plot thread of the book is two soldiers, each one from one side of the war, fell in love and had a hybrid child, and this is SO loving BAD for the people in power because their child represents 'an idea' or something that could take root in the peoples who are sick of the endless war and the heartless cynical bastards and those who need someone to hate and blame don't want that to the degree that the most recent plot development is someone being told to not only track down and kill the main characters, but literally everyone they ever met, to make sure absolute NO ONE EVER KNOWS EVER THAT THIS BABY EXISTED, I just started to wonder if I missed or forgot how these two worlds are so powerful that they can make their home galaxy into the battlefield and drag everyone in it into their endless blood feud. They don't SEEM that powerful, though again, it's been some time since I read the whole thing.
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Jun 18, 2022 09:28
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Has Simon Williams ever been in a movie with Mary Jane Watson? Bonus points if Dazzler did the soundtrack. Waiting for Eternals to say that Kingo has done a movie with either of them.
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Jun 18, 2022 17:07
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Open Marriage Night posted:Has Simon Williams ever been in a movie with Mary Jane Watson? Bonus points if Dazzler did the soundtrack. I don't believe so. Their acting careers put them on opposite coasts and in the case of Simon Williams is referenced pretty rarely. So we hear about the cheesy low budget fantasy movies Simon makes while Mary Jane is making soap operas...
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Jun 27, 2022 15:05
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So I've been away from DC for a bit but returned fo the Pride specials. Imagine my surprise when reading the Tim Drake special to find Connor Kent Supperboy and Impulse were apparently back with their Pre New 52 characterisations. 2 questions: - When the hell did this happen? I'm guessing one of the titans books post Rebirth but haven't read any modern titans since Lobdels run. - have there been any good titans runs since the New 52 that are worth reading?
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Jun 29, 2022 15:43
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Con-El returned in Bendis's Young Justice. Tim just kind of transitioned back, and I'm not sure how Impulse returned. Don't read any Titans.
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Jun 29, 2022 15:54
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Endless Mike posted:Con-El returned in Bendis's Young Justice. Tim just kind of transitioned back, and I'm not sure how Impulse returned. Thanks. I always liked Connor so I'll have to check out that run. Shame that the Titans books have apparently been a wash. I wonder why DC has so much trouble with them?
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Jun 30, 2022 09:44
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Impulse apparently was running through Hypertime like right before Flashpoint and when he got back, everything was post-Rebirth. And, being Impulse, he kinda just rolled with it.
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Jun 30, 2022 13:15
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Nyeehg posted:Thanks. I always liked Connor so I'll have to check out that run.
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Jun 30, 2022 14:08
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Yeah Superboy and Impulse were both retconned to being outside of the universe when Flashpoint happened so they came back pretty much fully formed as they were when they left. Tim's whole history kind of just changed without explanation at some point around Rebirth back to his Pre-Flashpoint history. When Conner came back most people close to him seemed to remember him except for Clark and Lois. Even Krypto and Ma & Pa Kent remembered him.
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Jun 30, 2022 14:45
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FilthyImp posted:It's hard to write teens or teen concerns convincingly and also the need to Grit them up for LONG LASTING WORLD SHATTERING NOTHING WILL EVER BE THE SAME Even when they had good teen book writers like Sean McKeever they were not allowed to write them as teens, but instead constantly mauled by alien dogs or whatever.
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Jun 30, 2022 20:41
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This is a prose fiction thing, not a comic book thing but every teen novel I read is about justifying the war crimes those teens eventually commit.
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Jun 30, 2022 21:37
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Skwirl posted:This is a prose fiction thing, not a comic book thing but every teen novel I read is about justifying the war crimes those teens eventually commit. I will always respect Animorphs for ending with "haha no you actually did a war crime and no amount of justification or people telling you that you were blameless changes the fact."
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Jul 1, 2022 00:32
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Dawgstar posted:Even when they had good teen book writers like Sean McKeever they were not allowed to write them as teens, but instead constantly mauled by alien dogs or whatever. TT/TTG kind of drifts more towards College Freshmen with a Cool Dorm sometimes.... but I saw some fanart of the Titans just kind of sharing a small house dealie (random loafing around, nothing heroic) and it was exactly the mood I'd picture a modern Titans low-stakes series like.
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Jul 1, 2022 01:18
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FilthyImp posted:Yep. Gabriel Picolo's stuff? He rocks. The OGNs he did with a writer whose name I forget are worth a read. I think there's one for Raven, Beast Boy and Raven Loves Beast Boy.
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Jul 1, 2022 01:19
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ImpAtom posted:I will always respect Animorphs for ending with "haha no you actually did a war crime and no amount of justification or people telling you that you were blameless changes the fact." 'By the way the series is ending with everyone but Cassie fuckin' dying because life doesn't have happy endings.' Goddamn Animorphs was so loving good.
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Jul 1, 2022 01:33
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Dawgstar posted:Gabriel Picolo's stuff? He rocks. The OGNs he did with a writer whose name I forget are worth a read. I think there's one for Raven, Beast Boy and Raven Loves Beast Boy. Kami Garcia. It makes me laugh because it’s Piccolo and Kami
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Jul 1, 2022 02:38
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thetoughestbean posted:Kami Garcia. ...nice.
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Jul 1, 2022 03:59
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ImpAtom posted:I will always respect Animorphs for ending with "haha no you actually did a war crime and no amount of justification or people telling you that you were blameless changes the fact." What war crime did they do?
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Jul 1, 2022 08:35
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Enlisting terminally ill children to fight parasitic brain slugs is never going to be a great look whether you cure them first or not.
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Jul 1, 2022 14:32
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Cornwind Evil posted:What war crime did they do? They turned disabled children into cannon fodder and then mass executed captured prisoners. Oh and also set up a forced situation where a pacifist robot was made to go on a killing spree. Animorphs got real dark. Edit: Also this isn't subtext. When the main villain is being tried at the Hague he basically points it out and the protagonist freaks out. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Jul 1, 2022 |
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Jul 1, 2022 15:33
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Here's a story about it. Spoilers, obviously, if you care about spoilers for a 20 year old children's novel series.
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Jul 1, 2022 17:20
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