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0konner posted:So nothing meaningfully changes about this guy’s behavior or mindset. Again, Alex has paid teams specifically to record footage of leftists mocking him. Nothing about this is effective or worthwhile engagement. It's trite but you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into. You can't change the mind of someone not open to having it changed. Imo the point is to (ideally) help the people watching/listening who are inclined to take Jones or Shapiro seriously realize their absurdity and prevent them from falling down the rabbit hole. Or to get the true believer to leave you alone.
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Jun 5, 2022 15:42
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Even Dan seems to have completely given up on the idea that debunking Alex can directly hurt him. At this point, his work seems to mostly be aimed at intercepting people and poisoning the well before they can be lured down that "Alex Jones was right" path. His narrative changes completely from one day to the next, so facts won't reach anyone who is already ignoring the reality of what they hear him say. And in that sense, I think Jordan jumping the gun is actually super helpful for Dan to get a real-time sense of where he might not have included enough context for certain clips -- he tries his best, but it can be easy to lose track of what he knows from watching the whole thing, like trying to find a typo in your own essay where your brain knows what each sentence is supposed to look like.
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Jun 5, 2022 16:03
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I think that's pretty insightful and goes back to the original premise at the start of the show when Jordan didn't know anything about Jones. That conceit is over after like 700eps of course, but Jordan is still an outrage sounding board. Dan has said in air that the biggest feedback they get is "less Jordan please" so at least Jordan's aware of his own abrasiveness lol. After going back to old episodes, before I started listening on the Jan 6 eps, he's so much more annoying. He interrupts Dan and the clips way too much and didn't manage his mic distance around his screaming as well as he does now. It's still bad sometimes but seeing the contrast makes it way more palatable. I can't imagine his standup sets...
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Jun 5, 2022 19:02
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Glory to Italia!
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"Jordan... neighbors."
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Jun 5, 2022 21:42
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Jones doesn't deal in reality, that's not a smug way to say he's wrong it's just a genuine statement of how his audience lives, he's constructing reality for them. There's no amount of fact checking or mockery that will hurt him in any meaningful way because he's the architect of reality for his fans so anyone trying to 'correct' him just is like if I came in here saying 'did you know the sky is actually green and fish live on land?' That's why this podcast works, it's just a mockery/chronicle of what his insanity is. The only 'confrontation' that'd mean anything against Jones involves a tire iron and redacted.
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Jun 5, 2022 21:59
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Re: Jones being capable of being reasoned with I bit the bullet and went back to listen to all of KF from the beginning, and for the first hundred or so episodes there's a lot of discussion about Alex's motivations. Whether or not he has shadow backers, where he falls on the stupid vs. evil spectrum, whether or not there's physical and / or mental trauma in his past that is manifesting in his worldviews and thought patterns (spoiler: yes to both), whether or not he's capable of being reached by logic or reason, and whether or not he's aware of the real, tangible, measurable harm his broadcasts have done and are continuing to do to people. Jordan eventually comes to the conclusion that none of that actually mattering, because what's important is that he isn't stopping. He has (or had, before the current lawsuit chicanery) enough money that he could shut down his operation and live comfortably with his family for the rest of his life. instead he does his dumb radio show six days a week. Instead he chooses to work.
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Jun 6, 2022 02:18
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I still hold to my theory that any experienced stand up that knows how to deal with hecklers and do crowd work would absolutely humiliate Jones in a public venue.
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Jun 6, 2022 06:53
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The weird pivot to being pro-cop after the George Floyd Rebellion while still riding the câchet of years of previous warnings against "the police state" is a strange development. I know Dan and Jordan don't feel confident in their coverage of the Uvalde shooting given how little we know of the facts on the ground, but it might still be something worth documenting anyway. Yet for however strange it is, it is also entirely unsurprising. The one impression I got of Alex following the Trump years, is that if a genuine police state ever were to form, he would always end up being their biggest sycophant and propagandist. I just thought it would only ever be because he only cares about things which affect him personally and everything else is just a false flag, but Dan seems to think there are some traces of intentionality and foreplanning in this specific case.
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Jun 6, 2022 07:47
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They're good to listen to on this. I am extremely unconvinced either are actually good comedians. Is any of their stuff online?
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Jun 6, 2022 14:35
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Well they both kind of bombed out of the comedy scene before getting into the podcast, I don't think they actually do comedy shows anymore except maybe for fun?
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Jun 6, 2022 15:35
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Morroque posted:The weird pivot to being pro-cop after the George Floyd Rebellion while still riding the câchet of years of previous warnings against "the police state" is a strange development. I know Dan and Jordan don't feel confident in their coverage of the Uvalde shooting given how little we know of the facts on the ground, but it might still be something worth documenting anyway. The whole conspiracy scene loved Trump no matter what he did. KF is very good at dissecting why; behind all the yelling about a police state and authoritarianism is a reactionary, authoritarian belief system. The warnings about surveillance and police raids and checkpoints and all that is a justification for why their enemies are bad, not an ideological stance against strong exercises of power by the state. Use of that power is perfectly fine, even necessary, against the political enemies of the conspiracy theorist. Fascism is full of conspiracies, just look at the fuckin' Nazis, man. The problem with the Globalists' secret and forceful control of the world is that they're an invalid authority. The right people doing the things Jones' imagines them doing are perfectly fine, and we saw that happen again and again during the Trump years when he would do something that Jones had before long decried as a sign of tyranny or would violate key tenets of what Jones had previously articulated was his understanding of what the government should be doing. It honestly makes a lot of sense as to why no one caught on or cared about this stuff, though. The conspiracy world is about how there's incredibly powerful forces that have been secretly doing terrifying things in an attempt to bring about some sort of apocalypse or hold back humanity from its full potential. It's not about crafting an ideology or a worldview, it's about crafting a narrative where you get to feel both afraid of unassailable forces and smarter than those forces. If someone tells you they're fighting those things, why would you question their methods? You don't care about those. You just care about thwarting a powerful, malevolent enemy.
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Jun 6, 2022 16:50
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Grondoth posted:The whole conspiracy scene loved Trump no matter what he did. KF is very good at dissecting why; behind all the yelling about a police state and authoritarianism is a reactionary, authoritarian belief system. The warnings about surveillance and police raids and checkpoints and all that is a justification for why their enemies are bad, not an ideological stance against strong exercises of power by the state. Use of that power is perfectly fine, even necessary, against the political enemies of the conspiracy theorist. Fascism is full of conspiracies, just look at the fuckin' Nazis, man. Pretty much yeah its a  situation. Basically this whole thing is making a narrative frame where there are enemies in an outgroup to yours and they are simultaneously all powerful and on the verge of losing at all times.
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Jun 6, 2022 18:06
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Marsupial Ape posted:I still hold to my theory that any experienced stand up that knows how to deal with hecklers and do crowd work would absolutely humiliate Jones in a public venue. I'm listening through old episodes of KF and there's one with Gavin McInnis who sucks rear end but has a comedy background. He's on Alex's team but refuses to play ball with Alex freaking out and instead of doing a collaborative freakout is just like "oh wow, do you feel better" and Jones snaps and starts freaking out. Literally just not playing along with him but not being aggressive about it is the best way to embarrass him. He doesn't care about facts, you can't debate him or make points. He just wants to yell.
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Jun 6, 2022 18:20
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Mercury_Storm posted:Well they both kind of bombed out of the comedy scene before getting into the podcast, I don't think they actually do comedy shows anymore except maybe for fun? Dan's said he failed, Jordan was still doing shows regularly until covid.
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Jun 6, 2022 18:23
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Froghammer posted:Re: Jones being capable of being reasoned with It's definitely a trip listening to Dan in 2018 passionately declaring his concern over Alex's mental state. Lol 4 years later and this guy will never stop or fully crash.
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Jun 6, 2022 18:23
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Spoeank posted:I'm listening through old episodes of KF and there's one with Gavin McInnis who sucks rear end but has a comedy background. He's on Alex's team but refuses to play ball with Alex freaking out and instead of doing a collaborative freakout is just like "oh wow, do you feel better" and Jones snaps and starts freaking out. I wonder if someone very good at the “yes, and” aspect of improv could get Jones to say some truly horrendous, legally actionable poo poo on air.
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Jun 6, 2022 20:06
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Shageletic posted:It's definitely a trip listening to Dan in 2018 passionately declaring his concern over Alex's mental state. Lol 4 years later and this guy will never stop or fully crash. It's really remarkable. He is out of control, he is self-destructive, he is indulging in his worst instincts, he is basically on a years long breakdown. But figures that find him useful keep it going, so he just gets worse and worse and worse without ever hitting bottom because there's always someone there to dig more.
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Jun 7, 2022 00:42
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Grondoth posted:The conspiracy world is about how there's incredibly powerful forces that have been secretly doing terrifying things in an attempt to bring about some sort of apocalypse Isn't Jones a fundie Christian? Isn't it the apocalypse he's talking about?
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Jun 7, 2022 01:18
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Generic American posted:Even Dan seems to have completely given up on the idea that debunking Alex can directly hurt him. At this point, his work seems to mostly be aimed at intercepting people and poisoning the well before they can be lured down that "Alex Jones was right" path. His narrative changes completely from one day to the next, so facts won't reach anyone who is already ignoring the reality of what they hear him say. Yep
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Jun 7, 2022 01:31
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Morroque posted:The weird pivot to being pro-cop after the George Floyd Rebellion while still riding the câchet of years of previous warnings against "the police state" is a strange development. I know Dan and Jordan don't feel confident in their coverage of the Uvalde shooting given how little we know of the facts on the ground, but it might still be something worth documenting anyway. Cops love infowars, they think they’re the ones fighting the evil feds. Jones definitely knows how much of his audience is cops and isn’t going to push them away now that he isn’t getting a constant flow of new eyes from youtube. His recent stuff with uvalde is as bad as I’ve seen when it comes to him sucking off cops.
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Jun 7, 2022 01:34
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I’ve been thinking about it, and the best way to gently caress with Jones would be to Gish Gallop him with everything he’s everything he’s ever overshared on air about his past. Nonk, getting molested by the older neighbor girl, his weird dreams, getting termite gassed by his uncle, just all that weird poo poo. Most of it was said when he was visibly drunk, so he probably doesn’t even remember saying it. He’ll think you’re a goddam witch for knowing all that about it. Hell, if Dan were to ever confront Alex, Dan should lay into Alex with his parody conspiracy theory that Jones is actual a secret Satantist. Make Jones lose his poo poo over having to defend that himself against those allegations.
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Jun 7, 2022 01:41
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Marsupial Ape posted:I’ve been thinking about it, and the best way to gently caress with Jones would be to Gish Gallop him with everything he’s everything he’s ever overshared on air about his past. Nonk, getting molested by the older neighbor girl, his weird dreams, getting termite gassed by his uncle, just all that weird poo poo. Most of it was said when he was visibly drunk, so he probably doesn’t even remember saying it. He’ll think you’re a goddam witch for knowing all that about it. I do find the idea of Dan gaslighting Alex into believing he's a secret Satanist hilarious
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Jun 7, 2022 02:07
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Animal-Mother posted:Isn't Jones a fundie Christian? Isn't it the apocalypse he's talking about? I think he's only a fundie Christian so he can sell things to fundie christians. The only thing sacred to Alex is guns. Any other position he has is flexible.
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Jun 7, 2022 02:27
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Shinji2015 posted:I do find the idea of Dan gaslighting Alex into believing he's a secret Satanist hilarious Goddamit, I have got to quit posting stoned. I write like I have a head injury.
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Jun 7, 2022 03:19
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Marsupial Ape posted:Goddamit, I have got to quit posting stoned. I write like I have a head injury. Read fine to me but I'm also stoned. The problem was that all of your gish gallop examples were just rational criticisms... done quickly? He is immune to being rhetorically countered in any meaningful way other than being drowned out.
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Jun 7, 2022 04:03
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Grondoth posted:It's really remarkable. He is out of control, he is self-destructive, he is indulging in his worst instincts, he is basically on a years long breakdown. But figures that find him useful keep it going, so he just gets worse and worse and worse without ever hitting bottom because there's always someone there to dig more. a veritable asymptote of self destruction
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Jun 7, 2022 04:05
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ILL Machina posted:Read fine to me but I'm also stoned. I'm passed being meaningful, I want public humiliation. Scare the poo poo out of Alex Jones by telling his own life story back to him.
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Jun 7, 2022 05:22
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I wanted to post the "Hank Hill knows all of Dale's conspiracy theories and points out all the contradictions" clip but there are so many loving Youtube videos about people's dumb King of the Hill theories that I can't find a good one of it. Anyway, as satisfying as it would be to just run through all the ways that his theories are contradictory and dumb nothing would really stick and it'd be water off of a duck's back. I've been interested in conspiracy theories since I was a teenager and I know vaguely of like 2 or 3 people who actually manage to logic their way out. If anything it's like the point about evangelicals/Mormons/anybody who still sends out missionaries doing it not to spread the word but to have people yell at their missionaries and harden their beliefs and loyalty to the group.
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Jun 7, 2022 07:20
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Dan and Jordan are the guests on this week's episodes of Behind the Bastards, and today's episode (and probably Thursday's) is basically a recap episode of KF as Dan catches Robert on what's happened with Alex since the last time KF was on BtB, with clips and all. We're getting a full week of KF
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Jun 7, 2022 13:04
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These are my favourite weeks
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Jun 7, 2022 13:08
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EEEEEE YES!!!! I love when KF is on BtB If only they could get PFT Sigh
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Jun 7, 2022 13:12
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Jones at least as of Monday is cutting bait on the uvalde PD.
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Jun 7, 2022 18:00
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Megabound posted:These are my favourite weeks
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Jun 7, 2022 18:45
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The current Pt 2 BtB upload has no audio at Dan's clips. It's been fun listening to Robert's reactions in pt 1
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Jun 9, 2022 11:24
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Tree Dude posted:I think he's only a fundie Christian so he can sell things to fundie christians. The only thing sacred to Alex is guns. Any other position he has is flexible. Sure but that applies to all televangelists. Jones has been pushing god for over twenty years, it’s pretty safe to say he’s highly religious even if he’s just using it to get rich.
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Jun 9, 2022 13:20
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On the other hand, he is a narcissist. So when he's talking about God, he's really just talking about himself. The God of Alex's imagining has very little to do with any Christian or Abrahamic equivalent, but he can target fundamentalists so long as they sound similar enough.
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Jun 9, 2022 15:52
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Megabound posted:The current Pt 2 BtB upload has no audio at Dan's clips. It's been fun listening to Robert's reactions in pt 1 Should be cleaned up soon https://twitter.com/bastardspod/status/1534931995976814592
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Jun 9, 2022 17:30
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I haven't read the motion yet because I don't have easy access to TX court pleadings, but the plaintiffs there have filed a motion for sanctions against Jones for the bullshit bankruptcy removal.
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Jun 9, 2022 17:35
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I downloaded it about an hour ago and it seems 100 percent fine.
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Jun 9, 2022 22:52
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Right, r-r-r-r-r-right.
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Jun 10, 2022 06:26
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