|
SVP do not talk about TGV Est
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2022 14:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 19:14 |
|
|
A Very Political Map: https://twitter.com/anildash/status/1534639563167105025
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2022 23:39
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/TerribleMaps/status/1534669882800865281
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2022 00:51
|
|
|
No meat Corsica or meat French Guiana. Does that mean it's a bad map for being incomplete or a good map for being anticolonialist?
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2022 01:15
|
|
|
 Hungary: ?
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2022 14:58
|
|
|
for a second i thought this map about the word for metal was taking a firm stance on the new borders of ukraine but it seems to be mapping languages instead, presumably dealing with overlapping language areas by "enh, just draw a line somewhere"
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2022 15:06
|
|
|
Yeah if it were political borders then Spanish nationalists would have declared war on maps-oe. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2022 15:18
|
|
|
This is unrelated, but I've always wondered how those pockets of Hungarians in Transylvania ended up completely surrounded by Romanians. It looks so strange on the map. Has the Hungarian population always been non-contiguous like that, or have there been demographic changes over the centuries?
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2022 16:19
|
|
|
Phlegmish posted:This is unrelated, but I've always wondered how those pockets of Hungarians in Transylvania ended up completely surrounded by Romanians. It looks so strange on the map. Has the Hungarian population always been non-contiguous like that, or have there been demographic changes over the centuries? Hyperwar stragglers.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2022 16:35
|
|
|
Guavanaut posted:
I was going to ask what the "metalo" is in Poland, but apparently Bialystok has a long history with Esperanto, it being created by someone from there.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2022 16:43
|
|
|
Guavanaut posted:
My immediate guess would be Hungarian fém either comes from Latin ferrum (iron) or they both got it from the same place, but im not a linguist
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2022 17:01
|
|
|
Carthag Tuek posted:My immediate guess would be Hungarian fém either comes from Latin ferrum (iron) or they both got it from the same place, but im not a linguist No they just made it up.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2022 17:16
|
|
|
Carthag Tuek posted:My immediate guess would be Hungarian fém either comes from Latin ferrum (iron) or they both got it from the same place, but im not a linguist Nice guess, fém
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2022 17:18
|
|
|
Phlegmish posted:This is unrelated, but I've always wondered how those pockets of Hungarians in Transylvania ended up completely surrounded by Romanians. It looks so strange on the map. Has the Hungarian population always been non-contiguous like that, or have there been demographic changes over the centuries? My first guess was that they were some kind of enclave of people descended from the Hungarian aristocrats that ruled the area back in the day, but apparently there's a group of hungarian people hanging around that area for a thousand years, or at least as far back as coherent records go. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sz%C3%A9kelys There's not a certain answer about how they ended up there, but there is largely a theory that they were originally meant to guard the frontier, which they're right on the Carpathians, so that'd be a good spot to do it from. They historically had some kind of autonomy, in the soviet days they were the Magyar Autonomous Region, and they're still pushing for some kind of autonomy now. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2022 17:49
|
|
|
Everyone would love to see Ahvenanmaa secede. What's keeping them?
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2022 18:03
|
|
|
Guavanaut posted:
I was briefly annoyed that they slapped the russian word on Kazakhstan then I asked my wife what the kazakh word for metal is and yep, it is metall, much like the romano-slavo-germano metal, just pronounced barely differently. Which tracks given Turkey.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2022 18:20
|
|
|
I thought the Hungarians started as a nomadic steppe people that conquered the area and stuck around.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2022 20:00
|
|
|
Count Roland posted:I thought the Hungarians started as a nomadic steppe people that conquered the area and stuck around. Hungarian language yeah, but they would have been a smaller invasion group conquering the local dirt farmers and Hungarianizing them. See Also: Turks are not generally speaking actually a bunch of Central Asians, but descended from a generally Anatolian population, just Turkified.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2022 20:13
|
|
|
Grape posted:Hungarian language yeah, but they would have been a smaller invasion group conquering the local dirt farmers and Hungarianizing them. Sure, I understand most conquering peoples wind up looking like the people they conquered rather than the other way around. Arabs are like this too.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2022 20:33
|
|
|
It's a real toss up. Hungarians, Romans, Turks, and Saxons kept their languages after invading and spread it to their subjects, but Franks, Goths, Lombards, and Normans didn't. I can't even begin to guess how many people are actually physically descended from the invaders and how many are from the local population, mathematically that probably gets pretty confusing over time. I think language can also spread without direct conquest, and some ethnic groups don't really have a language all to themselves, so it's not a good tracker of things.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2022 21:22
|
|
|
SlothfulCobra posted:It's a real toss up. Hungarians, Romans, Turks, and Saxons kept their languages after invading and spread it to their subjects, but Franks, Goths, Lombards, and Normans didn't. I can't even begin to guess how many people are actually physically descended from the invaders and how many are from the local population, mathematically that probably gets pretty confusing over time. I think language can also spread without direct conquest, and some ethnic groups don't really have a language all to themselves, so it's not a good tracker of things. In the case of ancient and medieval history, didn't it often boil down to numbers? If the conquerors were far outnumbered by the conquered, wouldn't the conquerors eventually start speaking the conquered people's language (albeit after making some changes)? An example of this would be the French-speaking Normans in England.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2022 21:43
|
|
|
Edgar Allen Ho posted:then I asked my wife what the kazakh word for metal is So ..how's that going?
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2022 21:53
|
|
|
statim posted:So ..how's that going? Google seems to think it's "metall". I could ask my Kazakh colleague during business hours.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2022 22:01
|
|
|
Grape posted:Hungarian language yeah, but they would have been a smaller invasion group conquering the local dirt farmers and Hungarianizing them. And those Turks had undergone some amount of Persianization beforehand on account of Seljuk and his boys sticking around Persia for a while. So although they still spoke their Central Asian Turkic language they had a lot of Persian cultural influences which they brought to the mostly Greek(or Eastern Roman at that point I guess) population of Anatolia.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2022 22:02
|
|
|
My wife is half-russian half-kazakh and born at the end of soviet Kazakhstan, is there a separate properly kazakh word for metal that I'm missing the joke of?
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2022 22:50
|
|
|
FreudianSlippers posted:And those Turks had undergone some amount of Persianization beforehand on account of Seljuk and his boys sticking around Persia for a while. I've often said Turkish culture is the child of Greece and Iran. The ancient prophecy fulfilled.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2022 23:30
|
|
|
SlothfulCobra posted:My first guess was that they were some kind of enclave of people descended from the Hungarian aristocrats that ruled the area back in the day, but apparently there's a group of hungarian people hanging around that area for a thousand years, or at least as far back as coherent records go.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2022 00:07
|
|
|
AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Isnt Prussia mostly ethnically Russian at this point? I thought I remembered reading that the Russians forced most of the Germans out when they took over. No. West Prussia is mostly polish.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2022 00:15
|
|
|
AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Isnt Prussia mostly ethnically Russian at this point? I thought I remembered reading that the Russians forced most of the Germans out when they took over. Ethnicity is complicated and ethnic cleansing doesn't reliably work. And even aside from that, I can imagine many pragmatic reasons why Russia's weird exclave would want to leave and maybe have an easier time interacting with its neighbors and the world at large. The map's a bit old, but the sentiment is probably stronger now that Russia is a full-on pariah state.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2022 00:28
|
|
|
AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Isnt Prussia mostly ethnically Russian at this point? I thought I remembered reading that the Russians forced most of the Germans out when they took over. A lot of these supposedly “important” movements are highly exaggerated in the map.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2022 00:39
|
|
|
Kaliningrad the place that exists and has hundreds of thousands of people who call it home in 2022, however, is 90% russian with the rest being overwhelmingly former USSR, a shocking 0.4% being german, 0.4% lithuanian, (technically in the former USSR category but) and 0.3% polish, and that gets worse if you look at the oblast rather than the city. Lots of weirdos angry at russian people rather than the Vova Putin or the Russian Federation think it should be conquered and handed over to Poland, Germany, or Lithuania while the people who live there... go somewhere because Putin is their fault those disgusting russkies.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2022 00:41
|
|
|
Phlegmish posted:This is unrelated, but I've always wondered how those pockets of Hungarians in Transylvania ended up completely surrounded by Romanians. It looks so strange on the map. Has the Hungarian population always been non-contiguous like that, or have there been demographic changes over the centuries? I'm happy to get corrected by someone who knows more than anecdotal evidence, but my now ex-girlfriend is from Transylvania and by accounts of some light reading + her family's complicated and messy history (Roma ethnicity, Hungarian last name, but speaks Romanian), I would wager the population of Transylvania has been linguistically in flux for centuries and that the Romanian-language 'encirclement' of Szekelyland may be a historically fairly recent thing (say, about 200 years old), with Hungarian being the prestige language all the way from Budapest to Cluj earlier, despite the locals speaking languages that had been present in the region earlier, including Romanian. It just so happens that the magyarization of the eastern end of Transylvania was more successful. Alternatively, it could have been city-hopping. For instance, if the Flemish movement had truly kicked off 60-70 years later than it had, Ghent might now be a plurality French-language island surrounded by a Dutch-language region, much like Brussels is today. At their heyday, native French-speakers comprised 4% of Ghent's population but they were disproportionally represented in the city's more prestigious social strata.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2022 00:49
|
|
|
Edgar Allen Ho posted:Kaliningrad the place that exists and has hundreds of thousands of people who call it home in 2022, however, is 90% russian with the rest being overwhelmingly former USSR, a shocking 0.4% being german, 0.4% lithuanian, (technically in the former USSR category but) and 0.3% polish, and that gets worse if you look at the oblast rather than the city. Turns out, "well, they started it" is not a valid defence to genocide.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2022 03:55
|
|
|
NDP posted:In the case of ancient and medieval history, didn't it often boil down to numbers? If the conquerors were far outnumbered by the conquered, wouldn't the conquerors eventually start speaking the conquered people's language (albeit after making some changes)? An example of this would be the French-speaking Normans in England. And how those Normans came to be speaking French in the first place, for that matter.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2022 07:07
|
|
|
Density of cattle and pigs. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2022 09:00
|
|
|
Carbon dioxide posted:Density of cattle and pigs. Pigs in the Benelux are made of lead / plutonium
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2022 09:10
|
|
|
A good thing to remember when thinking about language and ethnicity is that monolingualism is historically recent and to a large part the result of (proto-)imperialism. And by that I mean that most of Europe before, say, 1500 would have been speaking more than one language. This would be especially true for anyone involved in trade or travel or minority ethnicities. For example, Jesus would likely have spoken Greek a lot, but his first language would likely have been Aramaic or something. I guess he would also be able to speak a bit of Latin and a few other local languages as well. Same goes for Joe Frankfurter, he'd speak whatever high German, some kind of French and maybe some Polish if his trade went in that direction or low German/Dutch if it went that way. And if he was Jewish, you can add Yiddish. Add to that that there's a lot of politics and social signalling in what language you speak. At some point the Danish nobility spoke only French and German, despite being pretty Danish, because Danish was seen as a language for poors. This spread to the cities, because the city dwellers wanted to be like the nobles.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2022 09:18
|
|
|
 Members of Asociación de Academias de la Lengua Española
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2022 11:15
|
|
|
Phlegmish posted:This is unrelated, but I've always wondered how those pockets of Hungarians in Transylvania ended up completely surrounded by Romanians. It looks so strange on the map. Has the Hungarian population always been non-contiguous like that, or have there been demographic changes over the centuries? It used to be perfectly common that languages were specific to certain social groups or occupations in a certain area. In northern Norway, reindeer herding was conducted in Sámi, fishing in Norwegian and farming in Kven Finnish. In addition to Hungarian and Romanian, Transylvania used to have a sizeable German-speaking population, though it has shrunk considerably due to emigration.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2022 12:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 19:14 |
|
|
AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Isnt Prussia mostly ethnically Russian at this point? I thought I remembered reading that the Russians forced most of the Germans out when they took over. Well, since "ethnicity" doesn't actually mean anything outside of racism, sure why not. In practice, no.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2022 12:16
|
|