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I wish Atlus instead would have remastered Persona 3 FES but bring the best of Portable to FES, like its girl main character, and difficulty/balance changes, and new bosses.
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Jun 13, 2022 05:07
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So would I, but that would involve more effort than putting a bunch of still images through an AI upscale and calling it a day, so alas, it is not to be.
Commander Keene fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Jun 13, 2022 |
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Jun 13, 2022 05:14
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:...it looks fine though? The mall's floor looks bad. I said come in! posted:I wish Atlus instead would have remastered Persona 3 FES but bring the best of Portable to FES, like its girl main character, and difficulty/balance changes, and new bosses. They even have HD models (at least 720p?) from P3D, for fucks sake. It's a total waste to not use those for something given they still hold up 5(?) years later.
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Jun 13, 2022 05:30
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https://twitter.com/BreckinMathias/status/1536056383765889025?t=JXXsTg1Ns-I7pK9PD73Uqg&s=19 Portable's code is a lot more stable than FES hacked together poo poo is why. Also I don't know why people have such a boner about explorable environments in Persona 3, I remember playing both vanilla Persona 3 and FES at launch and remember getting real tired of going through the same locations over and over again and enduring 10 second loading times each time the screen transitions to progress S.Links and there wasn't a fast travel option like there was in Persona 4 Golden onwards. It's something that'd be nice for a few hours, before quickly wishing you could just fast travel instead. Something P3P lets you do. As for anything else that's missing from FES, it's like what, The Answer and AI only party control? The Answer is widely panned and hated by fans for being unnecessary and ruining characterization of the entire cast to the point most fans prefer to pretend it doesn't exist and wanting AI controlled party members with no direct control option doesn't make any sense to me considering Persona 3's AI is notoriously poor and if you really want AI controlled party members you can still do that just fine?
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Jun 13, 2022 08:06
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For a second playthrough I can see P3P's environments working but I tried it first and it was incredibly unimmersive. But arguing P3P vs FES is entirely missing the point. There's no real reason they couldn't have used the P3P code reworked with 3D environments (or even a choice) other than they just wanted a quick turnaround and the lazy AI upscaling is the rotten cherry on the trash cake. (With chopped toenail sprinkles representing the lack of a switch port)
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Jun 13, 2022 09:07
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RillAkBea posted:For a second playthrough I can see P3P's environments working but I tried it first and it was incredibly unimmersive. In other words, you're wanting a Persona 3 remake. Which is, fine, I guess, but that's a much bigger project than a port job and requires a substantially larger budget than just porting the game to Xbox and PC. Game development isn't as simple as just stitching code together like you or others on this subject seem to think.
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Jun 13, 2022 09:59
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Glad to see that this 25th anniversary special being lazy rereleases at least bothered to include all 3 Persona games. Y'know, eventually.
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Jun 13, 2022 10:07
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Mr. Fortitude posted:In other words, you're wanting a Persona 3 remake. I'm asking for a remaster made with existing assets. And yes, that's what I'm saying, it's a lazy port. If they had even redrawn the environments that would be something but if it's all just cheaply AI upscaled then its gonna be no better of an experience than just emulating it, which you could probably even do on your phone these days.
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Jun 13, 2022 10:27
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RillAkBea posted:I'm asking for a remaster made with existing assets. This is a remaster. A remaster is simply just taking a game, improving its sound and visuals and that's about it. You can say it's no different than just loading the game up in PPSSPP with a hi-res texture pack and I mean, I agree. But that's all that a remaster really is. No different from most other remasters for different games which basically take an existing game, clean up the assets a bit and make them available on modern platforms. Stitching FES and P3P together? That'd be a remake, especially when P3P had to be remade from scratch already to even work on PSP. It isn't simply a case of taking P3P's code, pasting in FES assets and FES code on top of it and boom, perfect version of Persona 3. To do that would require extensive rewrites to the code and new 3D assets created entirely for the female protagonist which don't exist currently to match the FES assets. Add to this that FES is a complete mess of spaghetti code that barely works and at that point, why even bother? Probably less hassle to just remake the game from scratch using Persona 5's engine and visuals. Now I agree Persona 3 should probably be remade. That'd be nice. It'd also be nice to see Persona 1 and Persona 2 be remade as well. But being angry that Persona 3 is a simple remaster instead of a remake seems silly to me because what exactly did you expect? A remake would have required its own announcement and likely be priced much, much higher than what these ports will be and it also sure as hell wouldn't be Xbox and PC only.
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Jun 13, 2022 11:08
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P3P makes much more sense as a base than FES (I don't think many people will be missing The Answer) but still, lol Atlus Anyway this tweet https://twitter.com/katrinaltrnsl8r/status/1536054424790962177 implies there's gonna be some localization changes? Not sure how much. The usual troglodytes already seem to imagine that she's gonna censor everything but her followup https://twitter.com/katrinaltrnsl8r/status/1536077167360020481 makes it sound like a relatively light touch.
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Jun 13, 2022 11:13
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They absolutely should censor "operation babe hunt". God that segment was awful even at the time and has only aged worse.
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Jun 13, 2022 11:16
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It's dumber to think FES is better than P3P when P3P has all the FES content for the male protag and more. All it's missing is the Answer (which is heavily contested), 3D models/environment for daily life (which is fair to be upset about) and animated cutscenes which still exist as stills. Also FeMC is way better if only because you aren't forced to cheat on multiple girls because some Japanese dude thinks women and men can't hang out unless they wanna gently caress.
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Jun 13, 2022 12:13
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https://twitter.com/playgamingmag/status/1536305066126221314?s=21&t=fOxOTwbx3ymJaE-et_ouug
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Jun 13, 2022 12:47
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Mr. Fortitude posted:The Answer is widely panned and hated by fans for being unnecessary and ruining characterization of the entire cast to the point most fans prefer to pretend it doesn't exist and wanting AI controlled party members with no direct control option doesn't make any sense to me considering Persona 3's AI is notoriously poor and if you really want AI controlled party members you can still do that just fine? It's still cannon, though. No matter how much some of the fanbase hates it, it's still the "epilogue" of the game. It enhances Aegis' characterization and is baffling (bar the obvious about the UMD game sizing issues) that this port of Portable wouldn't attempt to include it. Double-so since it's literally just dungeon crawling, which means they can rejig the randomization dungeon code, redo the Answer's cutscenes for Portable's visual-novel format and call it a day. Mr. Fortitude posted:This is a remaster. A remaster is simply just taking a game, improving its sound and visuals and that's about it. You can say it's no different than just loading the game up in PPSSPP with a hi-res texture pack and I mean, I agree. But that's all that a remaster really is. No different from most other remasters for different games which basically take an existing game, clean up the assets a bit and make them available on modern platforms. I mean we can argue until the cows come home over it being a lazy port, a "remaster" or a "remake." But they literally have better models right there:  Going to waste. So, yeah: I'm going to be slightly angry about how Atlus decides to AI upscale/"remaster" Persona with a worse resolution (PSP is less than this/sub-HD and even sub-480p of the PS2 version) option without putting in some work to make the PSP-port-to-modern-systems look slightly better. I think even Gurumin tried to do some work to make the uprez look less jarring as a straight-PSP-to-PC port. Compared to Disgaea 1 and Disgaea 2 which were straight-up PSP ports with no work done in terms of resolution clairity/better textures to help the sprites. (But the trade off there is that these were the "Enhanced" versions with stuff added in comparison to the PS2 originals, so the trade off there is better than what we get with FES [Party Control and that's about it. Female character is nice, but not really canon and Atlus barely acknowledges her]) I think what it comes down to is that while I'm happy Persona 3 is being acknowledged and given a PC port, this is kind of "lazy" (ugh) of Atlus. Double-so when they aren't releasing it in tow with Persona 5 (which is going first, which is fine because this is the Royale version) when everything indicates this is going to be a straight port from PSP with no additional work to at least try to bridge the stuff missing from FES to it (which has long been a complaint even during the original PSP release). If they were porting the PSP versions of Persona 1-2 Duology? I don't think I'd be as angry, given that those (like Disgaea 1-2) are the "enhanced" versions (bar what you say about Persona 1's music). I'm kind of worried what Atlus would do with SMT:4 and SMT:4A if P3P is getting no legwork put in beyond AI upscaling and that's it. Sega has a PC porting house (in Europe) that I'm sure would be willing to help Atlus out. Especially with the slow-drip-feed speed Atlus has (and baffling decisions made for ports: Catherine "Classic"/non-Full Body releasing on Steam like a literal month before C:FB hit PS4 baffled everyone non-Atlus) to where the PC port house could help them and enhance the ports while Atlus focuses on Soul Hackers 2, SMT5(DLC?) and other stuff while getting to grips with PC native versions like the SMT3 remaster. AnonymouseNo5 fucked around with this message at 13:19 on Jun 13, 2022 |
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Jun 13, 2022 13:05
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ChaosArgate posted:https://twitter.com/playgamingmag/status/1536305066126221314?s=21&t=fOxOTwbx3ymJaE-et_ouug Now we wait and see if Switch ports get announced.
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Jun 13, 2022 13:23
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 That's a relief. It was a bit weird that P4 Golden was a Vita-and-Steam exclusive (of all things) for a while there, so I was a bit concerned about there being some platform or storefront exclusivity shennanigans.I imagine Switch owners are still upset though. The Persona games seem like an ideal match for Switch hardware, they're not exactly very graphically demanding.
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Jun 13, 2022 14:05
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I agree, they should have found a way to put the P3P content into FES. And while they're at it, I'd really like a unicorn.
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Jun 13, 2022 14:06
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All that poo poo is not a port, at that point it's a full blown remake. Which would be awesome but tell me of a port (not a remake or reimagining, a port) that did stuff on that level. Like if they're gonna do that might as well just remake the game, give friendship routes to the MaleMC romance SL, update the combat system a bit, add new content, make Gourmet King dateable, and add a FeMC The Answer. All non negotiable. Edit: also lol at using the Dancing models as an example, whoch are used for a dancing game with no other stuff or even a main plot, and only for the main characters so they'd still have to make dozens of new models. Again, remake level stuff.
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Jun 13, 2022 14:12
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They should probably remake Persona 3, but yeah, it's not reasonable to expect them to merge editions like that for a standard-rear end rerelease.
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Jun 13, 2022 14:14
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:All that poo poo is not a port, at that point it's a full blown remake. Which would be awesome but tell me of a port (not a remake or reimagining, a port) that did stuff on that level. SaGa Frontier had quite a bit added for its remastered version.
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Jun 13, 2022 14:23
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Arist posted:I agree, they should have found a way to put the P3P content into FES. And while they're at it, I'd really like a unicorn. Unicorn is already in the game though 
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Jun 13, 2022 14:33
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Lotus Aura posted:Unicorn is already in the game though My joke!!!! Noooooooo!!!!!!
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Jun 13, 2022 14:41
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https://twitter.com/Atlus_West/status/1536049939918331905?s=19 Here's how little effort went into these: they didn't even get the date right on the promotional tweet
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Jun 13, 2022 15:09
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AngryRobotsInc posted:SaGa Frontier had quite a bit added for its remastered version. You mean the cut content which was already mostly finished and just needed a polishing pass when the game originally came out on PS1 but Square-Enix demanded it to ship there and then and cut anything that wasn't ready? Content which could also be partially accessed with a gameshark on the PS1 version? Because there's a huge difference between content that was already mostly complete and just needed another pass and remaking content completely from scratch so everything from FES is included but also everything from FeMC's route is included.
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Jun 13, 2022 15:23
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:Which would be awesome but tell me of a port (not a remake or reimagining, a port) that did stuff on that level.
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Jun 13, 2022 15:23
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SubG posted:Off the top of my head: Persona 3 Portable the last time they released it. P3P is an updated rerelease, not a port, and they still cut a ton of poo poo from that game. That's the entire point of this conversation. That's also the entire reason FeMC exists; they couldn't fit the assets on a UMD and had to find a way to make up the difference.
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Jun 13, 2022 15:26
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However much work you believe it would be to update FES with that content, I guarantee it is more work than you think. They'd have to, at the very least, animate all of FeMC's social links and reanimate any animated cutscenes she's in to bring that route up to parity with the male route.
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Jun 13, 2022 15:30
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Arist posted:P3P is an updated rerelease, not a port, and they still cut a ton of poo poo from that game.
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Jun 13, 2022 15:31
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I'm telling you that's not feasible. They might as well remake the whole thing at that point, it would be a more rational expenditure of resources.
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Jun 13, 2022 15:33
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So more like what they somehow managed to do with the PSP ports of the original Persona and Persona 2: Innocent Sin? Or are you thinking more along the lines of the Switch port of Nocturne?
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Jun 13, 2022 15:36
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Mr. Fortitude posted:You mean the cut content which was already mostly finished and just needed a polishing pass when the game originally came out on PS1 but Square-Enix demanded it to ship there and then and cut anything that wasn't ready? Content which could also be partially accessed with a gameshark on the PS1 version? Asellus' cut content could be partially accessed with Gameshark, but Fuse's stuff not so much, besides some very vestigial remnants of his quest. There are also some under the hood changes that are not as flashy as the restored cut content.
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Jun 13, 2022 15:37
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I was thinking more comprehensive than that, honestly. Persona 3 looks pretty bad these days and they're gonna have to do more work to even just the P3P models to make them acceptable, why not go for broke?
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Jun 13, 2022 15:38
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Like I get you. Persona 3 should probably just be remade and have the best of all content. But that's way out of scope for a simple porting job. Also frankly...even at the time, FES environments looked like poo poo, very blurry with no real detail. Same with Persona 4's environments actually, that was something Golden improved upon and remade and you can really see it if you compare screenshots of the PS2 version of Persona 4 with Golden's remade textures and models. Another thing to consider is that Portable is natively widescreen, FES isn't. Even in PCSX2 with widescreen hacks it still doesn't look right and some backgrounds like the Velvet Room breaks and some of the animations break. All of those environments would need to be redone for widescreen displays. It's simply too much hassle.
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Jun 13, 2022 15:50
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An eventual remake of Persona 1 - 3 while wishful thinking, would be really cool.
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Jun 13, 2022 15:59
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This whole thing made me remember that FES was actually released on a second disc in Japan, as an expansion pack where you needed the original Persona 3 to play and the combined Persona 3 + FES content didn't come until about a year later and was the version which was localized. I'm going to laugh pretty hard if Atlus sell The Answer and other FES unique content as DLC. It sounds like something Atlus would do.
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Jun 13, 2022 16:11
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I foresee a poo poo ton of mods adding back cutscenes and/or interactive environments when P3P gets released.
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Jun 13, 2022 16:19
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I'm not sure that a proper P3 remaster would be worth it, financially. Game's pretty rough in many aspects by modern standards.
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Jun 13, 2022 17:00
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anakha posted:interactive environments when P3P gets released. This won't happen.
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Jun 13, 2022 17:05
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Was The Answer really that hated by fans? Why? I thought it was a logical follow-up to the end of P3. GuyC died without anyone (other than maybe Aigis) knowing why and the grief broke them, particularly Yukari and Aigis. Fighting over the keys felt inevitable, since SEES was never particularly close with each other even in P3, and this was everyone letting out all their frustrations with one another. Even the teams made sense with what we knew of them. Also, Metis rules. Lotus Aura posted:Glad to see that this 25th anniversary special being lazy rereleases at least bothered to include all 3 Persona games. Y'know, eventually. Hahaha. Yeah. All 3 Persona games. *looks at P1 and P2 duology sitting forgotten in the corner* 
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Jun 13, 2022 17:10
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Pretty excited for P5R to finally be out on PC. I knew resisting the temptation to just get it on PS4 would pay off eventually I'm pretty pumped for a P3P remaster as well. I bought a PSP way late into it's life specifically to play the game, but never really ended up doing so. Something about those old handheld games for me just never really clicked for whatever reason. Curious to see how it holds up (or maybe how much it doesn't). Hopefully they'll bring the difficulty modification settings from P4G's re-release into both games. I really appreciate just being able to set it to double money or whatever and never have to worry about that if I didn't want to when it came time to get some cash for upgrades, since I've played all of these games before.
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Jun 13, 2022 17:12
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