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Rigel posted:Given that Democrats are in charge of the committee, there is no political upside to a criminal referral from the committee. If the DOJ did charge, it could look like they were politically pressured into it. If the DOJ did not charge, it would make Biden's administration look bad for ignoring it. Merrick Graland looks up from his game of Solitaire on his computer. "...Whaaaat?"
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Jun 14, 2022 02:06
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I wonder how much coordination there has been between the committee and DOJ on this and if we can truly take the actions of one as a basis for inferences about the actions of the other? As of now it certainly doesn't seem like the committee is soft balling or "decoruming" anything. Not only have they put together an exceedingly efficient and effective presentation of Trumps crimes.txt, it's already having an impact.
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Jun 14, 2022 02:08
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-Blackadder- posted:I wonder how much coordination there has been between the committee and DOJ on this and if we can truly take the actions of one as a basis for inferences about the actions of the other? I'd absolutely love to see charges against Trump, but I think the most likely outcome is some of his higher level associates go down and he's tarnished enough that he isn't viable in 24
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Jun 14, 2022 02:15
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DeadlyMuffin posted:I'd absolutely love to see charges against Trump, but I think the most likely outcome is some of his higher level associates go down and he's tarnished enough that he isn't viable in 24 Of course Trump himself isn't going to believe he's too tarnished for '24 no matter what happens so we'll probably have to deal with him trying to run anyways.
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Jun 14, 2022 02:29
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Everyone involved could be sentenced to prison for life for their crimes but if Trump is not brought in on charges or anything, he will run in 24 and most likely either succeed or very narrowly lose.
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Jun 14, 2022 02:34
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DeadlyMuffin posted:I'd absolutely love to see charges against Trump, but I think the most likely outcome is some of his higher level associates go down and he's tarnished enough that he isn't viable in 24 There are always going to be enough sycophants and idiot chuds with disposable income to make Trump viable in 2024. There is no way that he doesn't run if legally able to.
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Jun 14, 2022 03:11
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The only way Trump is not president after 2024 is because DeSantis is president. Also Trump will run even if he's not legally able to run. He'll just guide the base to write his name in as a write-in candidate; who cares that he can't actually take office if he wins. Hell, Trump could drop dead tomorrow and I'll bet that a sizable portion of Republicans still vote for him in 2024 as a write-in candidate. He merely faked his death so the cabal couldn't track him, and once he wins his second term - really his third because 2020 was stolen - he will return in all His glory and reward those who did not break the faith.
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Jun 14, 2022 03:42
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I could see a scenario where enough gets out that establishment Republicans are willing to risk a civil war within their ranks to rid themselves of Trump, career politicians don't like outsiders giving the game away. I mean, they might feel they can get away with it with Biden polling so low, and it's not like they lose much with him in the WH anyway.
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Jun 14, 2022 03:43
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idk i think trump is pretty much doa politically. he's still got followers and influence, sure, but he remains pretty much entirely deplatformed. Also while a bunch of gop scumbags will publicly kiss the ring, they're getting old, too and want their shot.
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Jun 14, 2022 03:55
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-Blackadder- posted:I wonder how much coordination there has been between the committee and DOJ on this and if we can truly take the actions of one as a basis for inferences about the actions of the other? Well, the investigation into the fraudulent electors plot was reported to have requested and been given documents by the committee. Also, I’ve seen reporting that there are DoJ attorneys listening on every committee interview, however I am not aware of their specific function. They may be there more for procedural reasons that investigation of crimes. It was also reported earlier today that Garland said, “I am watching, and I will be watching all the hearings, although I may not be able to watch all of it live,” he said. “And I can assure you that the Jan. 6 prosecutors are watching all the hearings.” Edit: Trump endorsed candidates have lost primaries so he’s not bullet proof. Rs elected in opposition to his political machine may well be less likely to kiss his ring as well. Murgos fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Jun 14, 2022 |
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Jun 14, 2022 03:58
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Moktaro posted:I could see a scenario where enough gets out that establishment Republicans are willing to risk a civil war within their ranks to rid themselves of Trump, career politicians don't like outsiders giving the game away. i mean they are better off trying to toss trump/hard line chuds and putting everything behind some dickhead like romney or rubio or whatever "moderate" type because those types would win the moderates who are turned off by trumps/desantis insane poo poo.
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Jun 14, 2022 04:08
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Rigel posted:Given that Democrats are in charge of the committee, there is no political upside to a criminal referral from the committee. If the DOJ did charge, it could look like they were politically pressured into it. If the DOJ did not charge, it would make Biden's administration look bad for ignoring it. They should just refer the drat thing to the DOJ because it doesn't matter, Trump and the fascist media apparatus are going to call it a Democrat witch hunt anyway.
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Jun 14, 2022 04:08
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Murgos posted:“I am watching, and I will be watching all the hearings, although I may not be able to watch all of it live,” he said. “And I can assure you that the Jan. 6 prosecutors are watching all the hearings.” Extremely Tucker voice: "And what is the head of the Department of Justice doing to jail violent blm rioters or to stop shootings in Chicago...or jail groomer teachers attacking your kids? You'd be right to ask the question...in fact you would be wrong to not ask it. Watching TV. You deserve better".
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Jun 14, 2022 04:13
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Jaxyon posted:The DOJ is not going to charge him either. The refusal to make a criminal referral is an indicator of that. The number of indictments and prison sentences that will result from this criminal conspiracy will make Watergate look quaint. And if Trump survives long enough for the sentence to come down, he's going to prison. I wouldn't be surprised if he vapor-locks under the stress, like any day now. He still lives on berders and fish d-lites. We are going to get the list of GOP legislators who requested pardons. And we are going to learn who conducted the tours of the Capitol complex. Go look up what the next three hearings are going to be about. DOJ will have every scrap of evidence the committee has and they are already on the case. The Seditious Conspiracy charges can only lead to one man. And if that's not enough for ya, GA will announce their intent to indict on or by June 30th. This is what the beginning of the mattering looks like. As I've read here: Nothing matters, until it suddenly does.
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Jun 14, 2022 05:05
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Dr. Faustus posted:The DOJ is absolutely going to charge Trump. Trump is the target of the DOJ probe, and Garland is going to get him. They have the crime, all the participants, and today they proved intent. He is turbo-hosed and eventually even the most jaded will see it. would you say that the walls are closing in
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Jun 14, 2022 05:12
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It's true Trump doesn't fear the establishment GOP because he stole their base and he has little fear of the Dems because of how they're doing in the polls. But there is still one faction that, from his own words, haunts him. Among all of Trumps various blunders it often goes far too unmentioned the degree to which his actions in office undermined and setback American hegemony. You really can't overstate how much Trump compromised U.S. security and power on the international stage. Trump may have a lot of sway with elected GOP due to his ownership of their voting base, but he has zero influence on the civil servants that comprise the U.S. government. I imagine there's quite a few people in the (mostly R-leaning) U.S. security community in particular that don't see now, with China exerting itself and Putin trying to roll into Kyiv like it's a loving bathtub drain, to be the best time to film season 2 of Jackass: The Whitehouse Edition.
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Jun 14, 2022 06:12
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Dr. Faustus posted:The DOJ is absolutely going to charge Trump. Trump is the target of the DOJ probe, and Garland is going to get him. They have the crime, all the participants, and today they proved intent. He is turbo-hosed and eventually even the most jaded will see it. You sound like so many others did during the Mueller investigation.
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Jun 14, 2022 06:19
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Charliegrs posted:You sound like so many others did during the Mueller investigation. Mueller was a Republican, who answered to another Republican who was hired specifically to help the presidents he served avoid consequences for their illegal actions. This is an investigation run by Democrats and two Republicans who seem sincere about their belief that crimes were committed, not there to throw sand and muddy the waters, and the AG is also a Democrat who is actively prosecuting related crimes. This is different.
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Jun 14, 2022 06:24
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Anyone else think we have absolutely no idea how this will shake out? Indictments are still coming down and how high up the chain gets charged is a decision that gets made at the end. The only prediction I’ll make is if Trump runs and makes it to the general, this will absolutely hurt him. Enough to lose? Depends on the economy in two years, not tomorrow. yronic heroism fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Jun 14, 2022 |
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Jun 14, 2022 06:38
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Charliegrs posted:You sound like so many others did during the Mueller investigation. okay who is going to pull a bill barr this time, also what does it mean that bill barr is actually cooperating this time
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Jun 14, 2022 06:39
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Unlike the question of what level of coordination Trump’s campaign and Russia had, and what exact Russian election interference occurred, the basic crime of Jan. 6 was right in the open. That’s a lot easier to present and explain, either on TV or in court.
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Jun 14, 2022 06:46
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Herstory Begins Now posted:okay who is going to pull a bill barr this time, also what does it mean that bill barr is actually cooperating this time Merrick Garland. He's probably going to lean heavily on the fact that's there no precedent to this and stick to  I feel like some of you haven't been burned enough by all the other times Trump was supposed to finally pay for his crimes.
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Jun 14, 2022 06:47
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Charliegrs posted:Merrick Garland. He's probably going to lean heavily on the fact that's there no precedent to this and stick to All the other times depended on either a) impeachment (which has never successfully gotten a conviction in the history of the country) or b) Bill Barr not being an amoral sack of unitary executive loving (when its a Republican) poo poo. The New York case is still hashing out, the Georgia case is not looking great for him, and this is just rolling out the evidence like a drat made for tv movie.
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Jun 14, 2022 06:52
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Yeah but now we have to rely on Democrats having backbone. I don't see it.
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Jun 14, 2022 06:55
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negativeneil posted:Yeah but now we have to rely on Democrats having backbone. I don't see it. They are emphatically not pulling any punches with this. You should watch some of the coverage, they're using the word 'coup' quite freely.
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Jun 14, 2022 06:57
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I honestly think the DOJ will be too afraid of civil unrest to go through with any indictment of Trump.
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Jun 14, 2022 07:03
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I've watched clips. The frankness of the language is very refreshing and I want to hope. But the J6 panel speaking frankly costs them nothing. The DoJ has to actually prosecute this. I don't think they have the stomach for it.
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Jun 14, 2022 07:08
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Charliegrs posted:I honestly think the DOJ will be too afraid of civil unrest to go through with any indictment of Trump. What you mean civil unrest like 30 armed white supremacists attempting to start a riot? Maybe some mass shootings? Is the murder rate going to skyrocket? We have civil unrest now, partially because some people think they’re above the law, or it doesn’t apply to them. People are rapidly losing faith in institutions and the rule of law. I think at this point it’s more dangerous not to prosecute, the crimes are too blatant and easily understood and the evidence is too great.
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Jun 14, 2022 07:15
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This page is going to be fun to quote later lmao.
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Jun 14, 2022 07:22
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Oracle posted:What you mean civil unrest like 30 armed white supremacists attempting to start a riot? Maybe some mass shootings? Is the murder rate going to skyrocket? You don't have to convince me that we are already seeing way too much white supremacist violence in the country. But I think we will see an explosion of violence and unrest from all the various brownshirt groups if Trump gets indicted. I think the DOJ knows this too and while I personally think they should not factor it in to any decision to indict I'm worried they will.
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Jun 14, 2022 07:36
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It's worth noting that it's not just the Democrats that he has against him. Trump has managed to piss off literally everyone except for his idiotic "own the libs" base. He pissed off the Warhawks and old school Cold Warriors in the U.S. security state with his sudden isolationism and cozying up to Russia. He pissed off the Free Trade-loving Robber Barons in the Business community with his sudden protectionism. He pissed off the entire establishment by throwing his weight around all over the place, thinking he had more executive powers than he did. The only people who've been kissing his rear end are the elected GOP who had to in order to get reelected. To anyone else that isn't beholden to his nutbar base, he's radioactive. The guy's a walking disaster of unpredictability to anyone with any level of insider influence. No one with any real connections wants him back. It's a small club and he wasn't allowed in it even when he was the actual POTUS. The entire establishment of both sides wants to be rid of him and to get back to the business of doing business. -Blackadder- fucked around with this message at 08:07 on Jun 14, 2022 |
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Jun 14, 2022 07:39
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negativeneil posted:I've watched clips. The frankness of the language is very refreshing and I want to hope. But the J6 panel speaking frankly costs them nothing. The DoJ has to actually prosecute this. I don't think they have the stomach for it. What they care about is getting a conviction. There’s no policy against prosecuting a former president. I don’t know what they’ll conclude at the moment of truth, but they’ll charge him if they think they’ll win.
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Jun 14, 2022 07:56
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Charliegrs posted:You don't have to convince me that we are already seeing way too much white supremacist violence in the country. But I think we will see an explosion of violence and unrest from all the various brownshirt groups if Trump gets indicted. I think the DOJ knows this too and while I personally think they should not factor it in to any decision to indict I'm worried they will. What does this "explosion of violence" look like? Because I don't think there are enough of them to riot (even 1/6 took a ton of organizing and active goading from Trump himself) and nothing would drat the whole maga movement faster than literal terrorism (and these groups don't strike me as being able to pull this off too well without getting caught beforehand). The other possibility is an increase in lone wolf mass shootings, though I have to believe if you're the type to commit something like that if Trump gets arrested then you're the type to do it eventually regardless.
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Jun 14, 2022 08:24
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SidneyIsTheKiller posted:What does this "explosion of violence" look like? Because I don't think there are enough of them to riot (even 1/6 took a ton of organizing and active goading from Trump himself) and nothing would drat the whole maga movement faster than literal terrorism (and these groups don't strike me as being able to pull this off too well without getting caught beforehand). We've already seen a spike in lone wolf shooters, and a lot of these folks are already planning for violence. Either we let the small cuts kill us slowly over time or we put Trump and his coup crew up on a stand and deal with it at once. If Trump doesn't go away, they won't go away. They will glom onto the next fascist rear end in a top hat and keep pushing folks to do violence while going 'we're just concerned for our country!' to the cameras. Unless there are consequences for their actions, they will continue to act. This has been a thing in right-wing terror since the 90s and it's stuck with us because people don't want to upset conservatives when they spur on killers and terrorists. gently caress 'em. Hold them to account.
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Jun 14, 2022 08:48
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SidneyIsTheKiller posted:What does this "explosion of violence" look like? Because I don't think there are enough of them to riot (even 1/6 took a ton of organizing and active goading from Trump himself) and nothing would drat the whole maga movement faster than literal terrorism (and these groups don't strike me as being able to pull this off too well without getting caught beforehand).
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Jun 14, 2022 09:10
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SidneyIsTheKiller posted:What does this "explosion of violence" look like? Because I don't think there are enough of them to riot (even 1/6 took a ton of organizing and active goading from Trump himself) and nothing would drat the whole maga movement faster than literal terrorism (and these groups don't strike me as being able to pull this off too well without getting caught beforehand). I think it would be the latter, which is already happening but I think it could get way worse. I mean we are taking about a former president that convinced thousands of rubes to potentially throw their life away for him by storming the capitol over a complete lie. He's a god to these psychos. If he gets indicted these people will lose their minds. They don't even need to be all that organized they will just attack targets of opportunity. LGBTQ events, Democratic party offices, Planned Parenthoods etc. But gently caress it, the DOJ needs to not be scared about the what ifs and make an example of Trump for future presidents that want to subvert the democratic system.
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Jun 14, 2022 09:22
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Language, i guess https://i.imgur.com/Pz7NgjG.mp4
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Jun 14, 2022 09:33
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When is the next hearing?
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Jun 14, 2022 13:24
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Oxyclean posted:When is the next hearing? Tomorrow. For some reason I thought it was today
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Jun 14, 2022 13:50
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Main Paineframe posted:The full 12-page statement is surprisingly boring. Only a few paragraphs bring that classic Trump energy, the rest is obviously written by a staffer. Too much about lovely policy stuff and GOP campaign rhetoric not enough about personal grievance and insulting people.
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Jun 14, 2022 14:21
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