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TwoShanks posted:"Skipping the dentist" makes it sound like a choice. I have a broken tooth but, and I quote, "tooth pain, no matter how bad, is not classed as an emergency". Every dentist within 15 miles of me is either not accepting new NHS patients or is willing to put me on a waiting list of "about two years". Literally every one of them happily offered to see me as a private patient though. Should be classed as an emergency. I don't know how dentistry isn't connected to the NHS more. There's no dentist near me accepting NHS patients either.
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Jun 14, 2022 17:04
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bessantj posted:I know you joke but skipping the dentist because of cost will cause people to end up in hospital with nasty
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Jun 14, 2022 17:05
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Guavanaut posted:Third biggest cause of heart disease after smoking and hypertension. Which is another reason why it's ridiculous that mouth bones aren't just part of the normal health service. Wouldn't be surprised if the oral infections also caused sepsis in sizable numbers.
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Jun 14, 2022 17:12
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roomtone posted:I'm not excited about the campaign itself either, but just ignore it if you've already made up your mind. I'll probably get involved in a way I didn't the first time, but I don't mean following media coverage. Not because it sounds fun, but because I think it really should happen. If it wasn't independence, people would just be endlessly rambing about whatever poo poo was on the news that month anyway, so it might as well be about something that matters rather than beers for kier. "and was sanctioned by the UK government" is the important part of that, though. Spain has previously said that as long as there is a lawful and legitimate separation process they don't have an issue, and that would surely be the case for the rest of the world generally. The problem is that the UK government have intimated that they won't sanction a referendum or a separation, and if we do actually unilaterally declare independence despite opposition from the UK we should expect zero recognition from any other country. I'll also vote yes for basically the same reasons as forkboy, but I don't actually see a workable path to independence without a serious change in how things are going.
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Jun 14, 2022 17:13
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Trickjaw posted:You did exactly tge right thing. Yeah, probably. Spent last night standing on the clifftop arguing about the last twenty-five years of Labour politics until 5am. It was decent fun.
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Jun 14, 2022 17:17
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Angepain posted:Do you think Scotland should be:
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Jun 14, 2022 17:19
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It is difficult to see how any part of the UK breaking off would go any better than brexit tbh, as the rUK is unlikely to be cooperative and the EU certainly isn't going to help out of the kindness of its heart. Nowhere in the UK has any value to anywhere else other than as a tax haven or Being London.
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Jun 14, 2022 17:23
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deletebeepbeepbeep posted:A friend of mine who volunteers at a local primary school helps teach children how to grip a pen and draw as they are starting school only able to use touch screen devices. If this isn't a joke this is a profoundly odd expectation to me, coming from eastern europe, where kids start school at 7 years old and don't always know how to grip a pen either (even when I went to school before touchscreens became widespread) and nobody really cares. Quite honestly it might be due to different cultural expectations, the educational outcomes in my native country are basically tied with the UK (which is to say not that great among developed countries) despite the above.
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Jun 14, 2022 17:26
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OwlFancier posted:It is difficult to see how any part of the UK breaking off would go any better than brexit tbh, as the rUK is unlikely to be cooperative and the EU certainly isn't going to help out of the kindness of its heart. Nowhere in the UK has any value to anywhere else other than as a tax haven or Being London. Build a bridge between Aberdeen and Amsterdam. Simple.
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Jun 14, 2022 17:26
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Reveilled posted:"and was sanctioned by the UK government" is the important part of that, though. Spain has previously said that as long as there is a lawful and legitimate separation process they don't have an issue, and that would surely be the case for the rest of the world generally. So, remember this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Catalan_independence_referendum this was not sanctioned by the Spanish government, and they wouldn't want to give legitimacy to any future attempt by Catalonia trying again by Scotland doing the same thing and then actually seceding. Note how well that went for Catalonia in terms of how likely this would be to succeed, btw. Countries voluntarily splitting up is one thing, it happens (hi Czechoslovakia) but one bit saying 'we're independent now' historically tends to mean a civil war. Spain is fine with a UK government authorised Scottish independence referendum because it would also be ok with a Spain authorised Catalonia independence referendum (because it won't happen). Scotland doing one off its own bat will always be a different and rather impractical proposition outside of Mega Joe Biden saying 'let it happen England or we'll nuke you' or something.
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Jun 14, 2022 17:34
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bessantj posted:I know you joke but skipping the dentist because of cost will cause people to end up in hospital with nasty mouth infections. Oh tell me about it. Like in 2020 when all the dentist's stopped working due to COVID, so when I got an infection all I could do was medicate with OTC painkillers and Orajel numbing gel. After a month of this my wife found me mostly unconscious spouting nonsense and ended up with me going to hospital with a car of Sepsis. Yay for getting an easily solvable problem that could have actually killed me, but thankfully has likely only shortened my lifespan instead.
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Jun 14, 2022 17:36
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bessantj posted:I know you joke but skipping the dentist because of cost will cause people to end up in hospital with nasty mouth infections. I mean, I'm joking with the glibness because if you don't laugh you cry but it's my experience. Like I said in a later post, severe depression & a conviction that I'd kill myself soon meant I did a dogshit job of looking after my teeth & I've horrid problems ever since. Have had mild infections to this point, it's absolute loving misery but my choices are to suffer through it for a week & hope it goes away (Orajel is really useful as well as cocodamol, Orajel is expensive but really does numb the pain adequately enough that getting to sleep is possible.) because if it gets serious I really dunno what I'll do. Because at this point it's not just worries about paying for it, it's a joyful mix of social anxiety & just good ol' fashioned paralysing shame. OwlFancier posted:It is difficult to see how any part of the UK breaking off would go any better than brexit tbh, as the rUK is unlikely to be cooperative and the EU certainly isn't going to help out of the kindness of its heart. Nowhere in the UK has any value to anywhere else other than as a tax haven or Being London. Yeah, but we'd no longer have to deal with loving cunts in the home counties so it's worth being a bit poorer. For real, I'm more than willing to accept a less prosperous country in exchange for no longer being wedded to England. I've no illusions that the Scottish electorate are much better, but at least we're starting from a position of SNP hegemony rather than Tory hegemony.
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Jun 14, 2022 17:37
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forkboy84 posted:Yeah, but we'd no longer have to deal with loving cunts in the home counties so it's worth being a bit poorer. I mean, I get your point of view, but substitute 'loving cunts in the home counties' for 'Polish people' and 'the EU' for 'England' and you could be up there on the stage with Nigel Farage. Right down to the 'it'll bankrupt us but OUR SOVEREIGNTY'.
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Jun 14, 2022 17:44
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feedmegin posted:I mean, I get your point of view, but substitute 'loving cunts in the home counties' for 'Polish people' and 'the EU' for 'England' and you could be up there on the stage with Nigel Farage. Right down to the 'it'll bankrupt us but OUR SOVEREIGNTY'. Sure, but let's consider it in context. One of these things is wanting to split from a larger whole to become more left wing, one is wanting to split from a larger whole to become more right wing. These are actually different things.
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Jun 14, 2022 17:46
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Some absolute heroes over by Heathrow: https://twitter.com/StpDeportations/status/1536744499610849280
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Jun 14, 2022 17:48
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Tesseraction posted:Just saw that the Just Eat CEO is made the cost of living tsar. Cool poo poo Guess who didn't actually vet the person they hired: https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1536728238667481094 (He's started deleting tweets now, but there are plenty of screengrabs in the thread)
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Jun 14, 2022 17:52
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Brendan Rodgers posted:Sure, but let's consider it in context. One of these things is wanting to split from a larger whole to become more left wing, one is wanting to split from a larger whole to become more right wing. These are actually different things. I suppose it depends on whether you think that structurally either are capable of resisting the forces that push countries to adopt horrifying neoliberal policy. There were people who were convinced that lexit could be a thing, too.
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Jun 14, 2022 17:58
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TwoShanks posted:"Skipping the dentist" makes it sound like a choice. I have a broken tooth but, and I quote, "tooth pain, no matter how bad, is not classed as an emergency". Every dentist within 15 miles of me is either not accepting new NHS patients or is willing to put me on a waiting list of "about two years". Literally every one of them happily offered to see me as a private patient though.
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Jun 14, 2022 18:02
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I don't accept out of hand that ind Scotland would be poorer. It might be, I'm just a rube, but my understanding is that most of what people claim is competitive wealth generation is just a constant funnel to the top while people stay more or less as poor as they were before, with a few new gadgets to make it seem otherwise. Anything good that happens is because it doesn't interfere with that or because it had to in order to preserve the machine in general. They just talk a lot of poo poo to make it seem like they aren't mostly concerned with exploitation and stealing, so i'm pretty deaf to the whole economic argument unless it comes from a socialist who says 'actually on balance it's not the best move'. I wouldn't be supporting the snp if it did happen, I'd join whatever socialist party appeared afterwards. So I don't really care how inept the snp are at running the country right now. It might not be that much better, but the scottish electorate is a bit better than england if for no other reason than to be contrary, and more importantly, the electorate might actually matter in a new country which isn't the root of capitalist evil anymore and can build some better institutions.
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Jun 14, 2022 18:19
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I don't think there's any need to overcomplicate this. The referendum is an SNP manifesto promise, so Sturgeon is going to run one. It's unlikely to lead directly to independence if it's not sanctioned, which is exactly why Westminster won't sanction it, but it's also unlikely to set the chances back either, so why not? Seems a reasonable outcome might be further devolution of powers, and despite being lovely liberals the SNP have so far put in a good chunk of effort to use what devolved powers they have to mitigate some of the worst Tory cuts.
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Jun 14, 2022 18:21
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As I said, I think the question is more whether or not the process is likely to lead to an improvement in conditions or whether it is far better placed to allow a different set of rich wankers to start funnelling a load of money to themselves, or arrange their own deals with the same rich wankers who funnel money out of everyone's pockets because capitalism is international and governments trend towards being its clients. if you are creating an entire nation it gives you ample opportunity to "reform" things like healthcare, tax, rights etc, and it won't be socialists in power doing that. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Jun 14, 2022 |
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Jun 14, 2022 18:22
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TACD posted:I’m not involved with it at all so I hope I’m not stepping out of line here but this sounds like exactly the sort of thing the UKMT fund is for I am completely involved in the UKMT fund and it's absolutely the sort of thing it's there for.
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Jun 14, 2022 18:28
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https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1536757571561865218?s=20&t=21v9Co_vWnYnMddAdI0H1g im not boring. please dont put in the newspaper that i am boring e: quote:Keir Starmer has urged his shadow cabinet to stop briefing the press that he is boring, warning them: "What's boring is being in opposition."
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Jun 14, 2022 18:30
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good dentishtry ish a cornershtone of a shivilished shoshiety 
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Jun 14, 2022 18:31
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I think whatever criticisms you might want to level at him, corbyn's time in opposition was extremely not boring. That's just you keith.
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Jun 14, 2022 18:33
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josh04 posted:Some absolute heroes over by Heathrow: quote:LONDON (AP) — British Prime Minister Boris Johnson defended his plan to send asylum-seekers of various nationalities to Rwanda just hours before the first plane was set to leave Tuesday, saying that efforts to block the flights were “abetting the work of criminal gangs” involved in smuggling people across borders. They don't make it clear either way, will they send anyone to Rwanda, regardless even if they're from there or even Africa? Like they could send a, let's say, Ukrainian refugee to loving Rwanda?
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Jun 14, 2022 18:34
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mobby_6kl posted:What the gently caress. Sorry to just jump in, I don't have the bandwidth to follow UK too closely now but I came across this article and just had to see what's up. Of course not, they're white.
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Jun 14, 2022 18:36
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The point as far as I know is to send everybody they can to Rwanda for "processing" This is because machinegunning people at the border would be worse optics.
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Jun 14, 2022 18:38
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mobby_6kl posted:What the gently caress. Sorry to just jump in, I don't have the bandwidth to follow UK too closely now but I came across this article and just had to see what's up. They have explicitly and repeatedly said they will send Ukrainians to Rwanda if they use guaranteed document free access to Ireland + the border in the north to get into the uk This is a thing because the document requirements for anything but seasonal work visas are deliberately set up to include things most war refugees can't get Dabir posted:Of course not, they're white. here's a home office official telling a select committee "yes we absolutely plan to do this", shortly before Purslow* goes to some lengths to avoid saying it, while very specifically refusing to deny it *Under-Secretary of State for Justice and Tackling Illegal Migration** **I forgot we did this Spangly A fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Jun 14, 2022 |
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Jun 14, 2022 18:38
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give it a few years and we'll have a shiny new terrorist organisation based in rwanda teaming up with all the other ones pissed off by the UK government
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Jun 14, 2022 18:46
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Reveilled posted:"and was sanctioned by the UK government" is the important part of that, though. Spain has previously said that as long as there is a lawful and legitimate separation process they don't have an issue, and that would surely be the case for the rest of the world generally. The problem is that the UK government have intimated that they won't sanction a referendum or a separation, and if we do actually unilaterally declare independence despite opposition from the UK we should expect zero recognition from any other country. The EU - Spain especially - made it very clear this applies to Scotland as long as the UK is a member of the EU. They made that exact point very clear. The only way Scotland will get recognized as independent is if a lot of the countries around the world want to humiliate the English for some reason.
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Jun 14, 2022 18:47
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OwlFancier posted:As I said, I think the question is more whether or not the process is likely to lead to an improvement in conditions or whether it is far better placed to allow a different set of rich wankers to start funnelling a load of money to themselves, or arrange their own deals with the same rich wankers who funnel money out of everyone's pockets because capitalism is international and governments trend towards being its clients. Yeah but we should probably disconnect "conditions" from "GDP" and "infinite growth quarter-on-quarter". We could be getting happier as people while the "GDP" is going down, our purchasing power parity could go up even.
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Jun 14, 2022 18:49
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feedmegin posted:I mean, I get your point of view, but substitute 'loving cunts in the home counties' for 'Polish people' and 'the EU' for 'England' and you could be up there on the stage with Nigel Farage. Right down to the 'it'll bankrupt us but OUR SOVEREIGNTY'. lol gently caress off, yes, if I said something entirely different from what I said then it would mean something entirely different from what I originally meant & I'd be goose stepping my way to a Tommy Robinson rally. That's a brilliant observation, absolutely staggeringly astute, you should write for The Guardian. What part do you disagree with? Let's look at the traditional home counties, which I named for a reason. Berkshire, Buckinghamshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent & Sussex. 6 counties, 67 Tory MPs, 3 Labour & 2 Liberal. We're talking about the heart of Tory Britain here, the home of absolute freaks like Priti Patel, Steve Baker, Theresa May, John Redwood, Grant Shapps, Michael Gove, Kwasi Kwarteng, Dominic Raab, Jeremy Hunt, Chris Grayling, James Cleverly, Bernard Jenkin, Tom Tugendhat. If there was a movement to saw those counties off from the rest of the UK & push them into the middle of the Arctic Ocean like Bugs Bunny with Florida, fine, but there's not. And it's not some current thing, look at 1997, a Labour landslide. in the same 6 counties, Tories won 45 MPs, Labour 24 MPs & Liberals 2 MPs. Even at the absolute height of Labour playing to Middle England, & with the Tories losing every seat they held in Scotland & Wales, Surrey turns back 11 out of 11 Tory MPs (actually, it's better. To quote Wikipedia, "all seats covering the present definition of Surrey have been held by Conservative MPs at each general election since 1885, with the exception of two Liberals in 1906 and 1 Liberal Democrat in 2001". At some point it's just an area full of cunts & it's OK to call cunts cunts, y'know? There's plenty of poor people there too, it's not all middle class suburban hell, and Scotland has places like Milngavie & Newton Mearns with wealthy suburban flight types, but Jesus Christ, 95% of their MPs are Tories, I don't know why it's controversial to just not want any part of them anymore. I am not saying every person in the Home Counties in a oval office, I certainly am not saying every English person is a oval office, it's in no way comparable to nativist politics & it's really stupid to suggest it is. And this is why I'm absolutely loving dreading the discourse during another indy ref, it really brings out peoples best when it comes to deeply uncharitable reading (including me)! forkboy84 fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Jun 14, 2022 |
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Jun 14, 2022 18:54
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Brendan Rodgers posted:Yeah but we should probably disconnect "conditions" from "GDP" and "infinite growth quarter-on-quarter". We could be getting happier as people while the "GDP" is going down, our purchasing power parity could go up even. Yes it could, but I would generally take the view that there is no clear mechanism whereby the separation of any part of the UK into an independent state would favour people inclined to pursue that path over how that sort of thing normally goes, which is that the bigger, more powerful states and forces in the world simply carve it up for dinner. I'm sure it is what a lot of people would like to happen but there is not much I can think of in the way of guarantees that it would, and plenty to suggest the opposite, especially as I don't think there are any revolutionary separatist organizations in the UK who are willing and able to resist what normally happens to places that get that idea into their heads, so any separation would likely be telegraphed well in advanced and handled by the same kinds of people who run the country now. And what they do is generally to their own benefit more than anybody else's. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Jun 14, 2022 |
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Jun 14, 2022 18:55
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I had to go private dentistry in the end and even then it was a bit of a struggle to get them to accept my 1 year old as an NHS patient
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Jun 14, 2022 18:57
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https://twitter.com/ITVNewsPolitics/status/1536711158132002819 Today is the 5th anniversary of the Grenfell fire.
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Jun 14, 2022 19:00
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crispix posted:terrorist organisation based in rwanda pissed off by the UK government All the powers of old Europe have entered into a... huge party!   
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Jun 14, 2022 19:01
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https://twitter.com/StpDeportations/status/1536770625443962880?s=20&t=uoVB-YLy4EPBmLrhrp1KsA Hopefully this turns from tragedy to farce, because at this rate nobody’s going to be on this flight that they’ll insist on flying anyway. Though of course they’re more than happy to have their fight with ‘lefty lawyers’, it’s pretty much baked into their strategy, so it’ll only be a temporary reprieve
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Jun 14, 2022 19:10
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Is it a private charter or a company running these flights?
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Jun 14, 2022 19:16
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Looke posted:Is it a private charter or a company running these flights? https://twitter.com/CallumCant1/status/1536627311696613376 Which is apparently a company that does charter flights.
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Jun 14, 2022 19:19
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