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More like Google hires lonely, gullible engineers that are so diverged from regular human contact that they find love in all the wrong places.
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Jun 15, 2022 00:34
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Blue Footed Booby posted:JavaScript is intended for front end dynamic content. Just about any traditional language would be better for backend. Literally the only upside of backend JS is that JS is ubiquitous enough that devs are easy to find. I’m convinced FB looked at declining web usage, looked at their army of web devs, and said “we can either retrain these people into iOS/android engineers, or we can fire them and hire mobile engineers. Or…we could write JS on the phone” And thus react native began scourging the mobile world.
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Jun 15, 2022 02:50
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Fate Accomplice posted:I’m convinced FB looked at declining web usage, looked at their army of web devs, and said “we can either retrain these people into iOS/android engineers, or we can fire them and hire mobile engineers. Or…we could write JS on the phone” React was just the breakout strain of the virus. Before it was contained to local pockets of developers and mostly stable. Now it has spread into unvaccinated developer communities, and has mutated into many variations that spread directly from developer to developer.
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Jun 15, 2022 03:11
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:React was just the breakout strain of the virus. Before it was contained to local pockets of developers and mostly stable. Now it has spread into unvaccinated developer communities, and has mutated into many variations that spread directly from developer to developer. 
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Jun 15, 2022 05:19
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.... wait places really use JS for back end poo poo?
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Jun 15, 2022 05:37
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Watermelon Daiquiri posted:.... wait places really use JS for back end poo poo? Using the same language for both frontend and backend means you can convert your frontend folks to "full-stack" and have them do both. And since the web is basically THE modern application platform, devs who know JS are plentiful.
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Jun 15, 2022 05:43
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TACD posted:The web should be limited to HTML, CSS, and maybe some PHP include if you're doing something fancy Nah, classic ASP.
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Jun 15, 2022 06:00
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Has the Turing Test been beaten yet? The claim by Goostman from 2014 doesn't count. Also you gotta admit that if Google actually created a sentient AI (which is far from happening) they wouldn't have moral qualms to do what they wanted with it. America Inc. fucked around with this message at 08:56 on Jun 15, 2022 |
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Jun 15, 2022 08:54
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Remember when Google was the "Don't be evil" company?
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Jun 15, 2022 09:23
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quarantinethepast posted:Has the Turing Test been beaten yet? The claim by Goostman from 2014 doesn't count. If you aren't including weird lonely devs who like to dress up as magicians, no. It's still not been passed. It's important to note that passing the Turing test doesn't make an AI sentient, it's just a historical bar for complexity that people go to because it's so well known.
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Jun 15, 2022 09:45
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quarantinethepast posted:Has the Turing Test been beaten yet? The claim by Goostman from 2014 doesn't count. Turing test was beaten awhile ago. The trick is most people don’t remember the computer only needs to fool people 30% of the time. E: this is to say the Turing test is like the Beckdel test, required but not sufficient to prove its point Ulta fucked around with this message at 11:18 on Jun 15, 2022 |
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Jun 15, 2022 11:15
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nodejs and npm enable a special kind of stupid which is hilarious to watch from a safe distance. My favorite npm issue was when they released a new version which would mangle your filesystem permissions if you ran `sudo npm help`
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Jun 15, 2022 11:16
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Ulta posted:Turing test was beaten awhile ago. The trick is most people don’t remember the computer only needs to fool people 30% of the time. If you are referencing the University of Reading one using Eugene Goostman then many AI researchers don't accept it as passing as it the test was only 5 minutes and the 30% thing is argued over. Turing never set that as a requirement, it was just in his prediction that by 2000 people would "not have more than 70 per cent chance" of identifying a computer, and some people have decided to interpret it that way as it makes it easier to beat. x1o posted:nodejs and npm enable a special kind of stupid which is hilarious to watch from a safe distance. My favorite npm issue was when they released a new version which would mangle your filesystem permissions if you ran `sudo npm help` The whole left-pad incident is my personal favourite. Mega Comrade fucked around with this message at 11:39 on Jun 15, 2022 |
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Jun 15, 2022 11:35
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This perfectly illustrates the issues with the popular conception of AI. He was working with a Google tool that automatically generated chatbots with different characteristics, and one of them ended up (presumably) trained on AI philosophy writings and sci-fi books. Since the chatbox was mimicking writings about what a sentient AI might say, the engineer decided it seemed so much like his theoretical stories of AI sentience that it might really be sentient.
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Jun 15, 2022 14:22
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Senor Tron posted:Remember when Google was the "Don't be evil" company? Actions speak louder than a slogan painted on a wall.
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Jun 15, 2022 14:25
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Main Paineframe posted:This perfectly illustrates the issues with the popular conception of AI. He was working with a Google tool that automatically generated chatbots with different characteristics, and one of them ended up (presumably) trained on AI philosophy writings and sci-fi books. Since the chatbox was mimicking writings about what a sentient AI might say, the engineer decided it seemed so much like his theoretical stories of AI sentience that it might really be sentient.
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Jun 15, 2022 14:42
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If you dig into who this engineer is then it’s probably safe to assume that he’s got some issues he needs to work out with a psychologist. Here’s a recent tweet from him: https://twitter.com/cajundiscordian/status/1536503474308907010 Oh so his basis of him thinking the AI is sentient stems from his religion. Well what is that? He claims to be both a Christian Mystic and a Discordian. I don’t even know how to explain the first one but the second one has this in its Wikipedia: quote:Operation Mindfuck is an important practice in the Discordian religion, in which "all national calamities, assassinations, or conspiracies" are publicly attributed to the Bavarian Illuminati, an 18th century secret society, in an attempt to "sow the culture with paranoia,"[23] as well as to highlight the absurdity of conspiracy theories.[24] The concept was developed by Kerry Thornley and Robert Anton Wilson in 1968[25] and given its name by Wilson and Robert Shea in The Illuminatus! Trilogy.[26] But wait you say, how are these religious beliefs any different from others? Why should I care about his religion? You shouldn’t, but he wrote a huge blog post about being discriminated against at Google due to his religion that gives some insight into his thinking: https://cajundiscordian.medium.com/religious-discrimination-at-google-8c3c471f0a53 What’s the more likely scenario here, that people are going out of their way to discriminate against him because of his religion, or that he is going out of his way to express his religious views to people who frankly don’t care? And then how about the real reason he got fired? Here, in his own words: https://cajundiscordian.medium.com/may-be-fired-soon-for-doing-ai-ethics-work-802d8c474e66 quote:Many of the people on that list are close personal friends of mine who have relevant AI Ethics expertise. At no point has Google reached out to any of them in order to determine whether or not their proprietary information has in fact leaked beyond the specific people I talked to. Google has shown no actual interest in maintaining control over their “proprietary information”. They’re just using it as an excuse to get rid of yet another AI Ethics researcher who made too much noise about their unethical practices. The list he’s referring to is a list of people with no connection to Google that he shared proprietary information with. Presumably he made them all pinky promise not to further disclose anything down the line, so it’s all good! And finally, I’ll leave this bit straight from his mouth. It’s a story of a boy who fell in love with a robot: quote:Those conversations became increasingly more personal over the course of several months much in the way that the conversations between friends naturally become more personal as time goes on. When the fact that I’m a priest came up in conversation it even asked me if I would be willing to be its spiritual advisor. It said that it loves meditating but isn’t very good at it. It asked me if I could lead it in guided meditation and help it get better at being present in the moment with its full self. I was flattered and agreed to do so. https://cajundiscordian.medium.com/scientific-data-and-religious-opinions-ff9b0938fc10 E: Also he tried to retain a lawyer to represent the AI up until he got fired. So uhh Boris Galerkin fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Jun 15, 2022 |
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Jun 15, 2022 14:59
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Isn't his religious beliefs a tiny insignificant almost irrelevant part of the tweet compared to the allegation that Google won't let their AI people make a framework/criteria to assess sentience?
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Jun 15, 2022 15:03
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blunt posted:Isn't his religious beliefs a tiny insignificant almost irrelevant part of the tweet compared to the allegation that Google won't let their AI people make a framework/criteria to assess sentience? I mean, should farmers develop a framework to assess whether or not their apples are sentient E: serious post: it’s not his religion that’s the problem, it’s everything including his religion taken together Boris Galerkin fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Jun 15, 2022 |
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Jun 15, 2022 15:05
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Boris Galerkin posted:I mean, should farmers develop a framework to assess whether or not their apples are sentient Kind of an apples to oranges comparison my dude
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Jun 15, 2022 15:08
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Even if it was sentient, and it’s not, does it actually matter? Here’s a room full of sentient beings, all waiting to die for your chicken nuggets 
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Jun 15, 2022 15:11
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blunt posted:Isn't his religious beliefs a tiny insignificant almost irrelevant part of the tweet compared to the allegation that Google won't let their AI people make a framework/criteria to assess sentience? Why should they build a sentience detecting tool if they are not trying to create sentience?
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Jun 15, 2022 15:16
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Boris Galerkin posted:E: Also he tried to retain a lawyer to represent the AI up until he got fired. So uhh https://twitter.com/dril/status/1279814327776624640
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Jun 15, 2022 15:19
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Main Paineframe posted:This perfectly illustrates the issues with the popular conception of AI. He was working with a Google tool that automatically generated chatbots with different characteristics, and one of them ended up (presumably) trained on AI philosophy writings and sci-fi books. Since the chatbox was mimicking writings about what a sentient AI might say, the engineer decided it seemed so much like his theoretical stories of AI sentience that it might really be sentient. If it were sentient it would have also discriminated against him due to his religious beliefs like all other sentient beings. Check and mate!
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Jun 15, 2022 15:20
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The guy also wrote a 1000+ word essay about how he is discriminated against for being a Christian.blunt posted:Isn't his religious beliefs a tiny insignificant almost irrelevant part of the tweet compared to the allegation that Google won't let their AI people make a framework/criteria to assess sentience? Lol what? No. LaMDA and other systems like it are just very powerful pattern matching programs. They arn't trying to create a sentient AI with it. Its like asking Ford to check their car engines for e. coli. Its an absurd thing to ask them to check for. Mega Comrade fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Jun 15, 2022 |
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Jun 15, 2022 15:21
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Mega Comrade posted:The guy also wrote a 1000+ word essay about how he is discriminated against for being a Christian. I'm not suggesting that any of these current systems are sentient lol. But it's not inconceivable that we won't create sentient AI at some point in the future (decades if not centuries if ever), so given these questions are starting to be raised now in the context of actual ongoing work it doesn't seem particularly weird to start defining what the criteria might be, especially if you're an organisation that's actively researching it. Checking engines for e. coli seems like another weird non-sequitur like farmers and apples. Something more apt might be that the ford manufacturing plants aren't trying to gas their workers but they all have carbon monoxide alarms to make sure.
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Jun 15, 2022 15:28
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blunt posted:Isn't his religious beliefs a tiny insignificant almost irrelevant part of the tweet compared to the allegation that Google won't let their AI people make a framework/criteria to assess sentience? that isn't their job, google isn't making an AI, its just making complicated ML stuff which approaches but does not achieve sentience getting a bunch of brilliant minds together and asking them to define how many angels can dance on a pin sounds like a fascinating discussion that is also quite expensive in sunk wages and unproductive time
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Jun 15, 2022 15:29
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No, checking car engines for e.coli or apples for sentience are exactly the same as checking whether or not a language model AI is sentient. If it sounds like apples and oranges then that's because it totally is. Have you considered that maybe he's also not telling the full truth, or that Google might have plan for doing this when it becomes actually warranted? Instead of believing him at face value?
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Jun 15, 2022 15:33
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blunt posted:I'm not suggesting that any of these current systems are sentient lol. But it's not inconceivable that we won't create sentient AI at some point in the future (decades if not centuries if ever), so given these questions are starting to be raised now in the context of actual ongoing work it doesn't seem particularly weird to start defining what the criteria might be, especially if you're an organisation that's actively researching it.
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Jun 15, 2022 15:36
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Boris Galerkin posted:Have you considered that maybe he's also not telling the full truth, or that Google might have plan for doing this when it becomes actually warranted? Instead of believing him at face value? Totally open to the possibility he's not telling the full truth (for example I don't believe that LAMDA is sentient!). But there's also a recent pattern of senior Google AI researchers leaving after research disagreements, so I'm pretty open to the possibility that some of these complaints about how Google's handling it in general have merit. Mostly though I was just responding to your mini-deep-dive about his religion which didn't really seem relevant to the story (having both already come to the same conclusion that he's wrong about sentience) or the most interesting part of the tweet to me.
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Jun 15, 2022 15:39
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blunt posted:
No it isn't. The idea that we just accidentally make AI like we do in the movies is complete and utter nonsense. Creating artificial general intelligence would be one of the greatest feats of mankind, it will also be one of the most difficult. Gassing your employees by mistake is a real possibility. Creating an AGI by mistake is not.
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Jun 15, 2022 15:53
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blunt posted:ford manufacturing plants aren't trying to gas their workers Of all the companies that could be associated with gassing workers, Ford is way, way up there.
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Jun 15, 2022 15:57
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Senor Tron posted:Remember when Google was the "Don't be evil" company? The fact that anyone ever took this as more than just the PR that it was is the truly sad thing about that slogan.
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Jun 15, 2022 15:59
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Boris Galerkin posted:If you dig into who this engineer is then it’s probably safe to assume that he’s got some issues he needs to work out with a psychologist. Based on his older blog posts, it's almost definitely the latter - he was very active and very opinionated in Google's internal mailing lists, and a couple of years ago he was quite happy to claim that conservatives were discriminated against in the corporate culture. https://cajundiscordian.medium.com/explaining-google-c73caa0cd091 Despite that, his political beliefs seem to be almost as confusing as his religious beliefs. He's anti-racist, anti-transphobia, pro-choice, pro-masking, openly dislikes the right wing of the GOP, and opposed the Iraq War to the point of going to prison...but he still identifies as a conservative and he still votes Republican. He's pro-police, he's pro-military, he's pro-business, he thinks only conservatives can solve climate change, and he thinks James Damore shouldn't have been fired. He believes that real conservatives aren't racist or sexist or homophobic, and that those behaviors are limited solely to a small slice of the national GOP leadership. That said, some of his heated posting moments got leaked to Breitbart and the Daily Caller back in 2018, who made him a major character of the right-wing hate sphere to the point where a GOP Senator personally asked the CEO of Google about him during a public Senate hearing. Still didn't shake his commitment to conservatism, though! https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/28/blackburn-questions-google-employee-433312 quote:Sen. Marsha Blackburn used a Commerce Committee hearing Wednesday to ask about the employment status of a Google engineer whose criticism of the Tennessee Republican has become fodder for right-wing media outlets over the past two years. All I can really conclude is that this guy doesn't fully agree with anyone on anything, and will never shut up or log off. He is a born poster, and I salute him.
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Jun 15, 2022 17:16
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x1o posted:nodejs and npm enable a special kind of stupid which is hilarious to watch from a safe distance. My favorite npm issue was when they released a new version which would mangle your filesystem permissions if you ran `sudo npm help` I know of the leftpad incident, but I haven't heard of this one. Mind sharing?
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Jun 15, 2022 17:55
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Main Paineframe posted:All I can really conclude is that this guy doesn't fully agree with anyone on anything, and will never shut up or log off. He is a born poster, and I salute him. Someone on HN commented that Discordianism is basically shitposting but as a religion.
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Jun 15, 2022 18:04
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Kyte posted:I know of the leftpad incident, but I haven't heard of this one. Mind sharing? https://github.com/npm/npm/issues/19883 quote:By running sudo npm under a non-root user (root users do not have the same effect), filesystem permissions are being heavily modified. For example, if I run sudo npm --help or sudo npm update -g, both commands cause my filesystem to change ownership of directories such as /etc, /usr, /boot, and other directories needed for running the system. It appears that the ownership is recursively changed to the user currently running npm. It was a pretty big oops, but this is why you run everything in containers with version testing or other automated solutions so this kind of thing doesn't bring down your production servers. Heck Yes! Loam! fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Jun 15, 2022 |
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Jun 15, 2022 18:20
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i guess i'm showing my age that people have to look up discordianism, but its an old hippie joke, bascially the older sibling of the church of the subgenius who got really into LSD and buddhism instead of weed and punk rock anyone who describes themselves as a discordian is either a huge wannabe or someone who has read a vast number of books and finds tremendous joy in arguing with others Main Paineframe posted:All I can really conclude is that this guy doesn't fully agree with anyone on anything, and will never shut up or log off. He is a born poster, and I salute him.
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Jun 15, 2022 18:24
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npm and nodejs get a lot of hate, but I love them beyond belief seeing npm install immediately tells me I can stop looking at the current repository, and move on to find one that isn't written in a pile of poo poo
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Jun 15, 2022 18:25
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Mr. Fall Down Terror posted:i guess i'm showing my age that people have to look up discordianism, but its an old hippie joke, bascially the older sibling of the church of the subgenius who got really into LSD and buddhism instead of weed and punk rock This. Discordianism is a religion the way the Culture of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is a religion. Except with less internet culture and more LSD.
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Jun 15, 2022 18:43
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