Games Workshop Specialist Games: Taking supplements to carry supplements

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Bottom Liner: Feb 15, 2006; a specific vein of lasagna

Yeah your first game will take a few hours. Subsequent games will go quicker, averaging around 45 mins or so if both players know the game.

# ? Jun 16, 2022 18:21

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# ? May 23, 2024 08:33

Refind Chaos: Sep 16, 2007; King of 'tisms mountain

Jack B Nimble posted:

So!

People will tell you Kill Team takes an hour to play, and that may be true for experienced players, but if e us it was about two and a half hours from the time I walked through his door to when the game was stored away again.

Here's how it went for me:

My friend started reviewing the rules, which he'd never seen before then, when I was setting up terrain, and was still doing reviewing them maybe fifteen minutes later.

Then we spent the better part of another half hour doing a lot of things necessary to the start of the game, like setting up models, picking tac ops, discussing what eve tac ops are and whether they should or shouldn't be excluded from this streamlined first game (we included them because they're such a strong driver of gameplay, and it was the right decision).

So, after all that, we finally start the first turn strategies or whatever (recon, fortify, etc). From that point on, right there: about two hours.

Wow, that's actually surprisingly on pace to be honest. In my experience a game, even with experienced players, takes about 2 hours.

Jack B Nimble posted:

Speaking of being a new player, there are some things I want to kind of bounce off the thread:

Plague Marines and pox walkers move very slowly but their dash and charge are the same as everyone else (excepting that I think charge is, like, your move distance +X)?

Yes, this is correct. A charge is your base movement (6", 3 x circle, for most units 4", 2xcircle, for plague marine Kill Teams) plus two inches, circle.

Jack B Nimble posted:

You really can just fall back out of a fight with no penalty other than being unable to take another move action? Or am I overlooking some check or complication?

No checks but it takes 2 actions and you cannot perform a move or fight or shoot action after.

Jack B Nimble posted:

I don't really understand the details of entering or leaving concealment/engagement. We sort of naturally adopted a procedure of declaring some people as concealed at the start, moved them up the board according to our understanding of concealment, and once they declared an attack we engaged them and never had anyone renter concealment. But I know there's real rules about re-entering concealment: when you can, how to become engaged again, etc.

Concealment and Engage are determined for the first turning point by the order you give them when you deploy them and cannot change other than with a scouting rule. After the first turning point you can change the order they currently have when they are activated for the first time that turning point, and they will keep that order until the next activation. There are some other rules that let you change the units order outside of it's activation but they are explicitly part of that Kill Teams rules.

Jack B Nimble posted:

We couldn't understand how to set a unit into overwatch and didn't do it, we assumed that if you didn't have a unit shoot they could enter into overwatch instead, but we were just guessing.

Overwatch is automatic given:
1. You have no more units to activate for your Kill Team this turning point but your opponent does. (e.g. You have 3 units that have all activated, your opponent has 5 total units, after their 4th unit completes its activation one of your units gets an overwatch action (Shoot at an opponent in LoS)
2. The unit performing the overwatch has an engage order and LoS to the target (Does not have to be the opposing players unit that just completed its activation)
3. The unit has not performed an overwatch action in this turning point

Jack B Nimble posted:

Oh haha I just realized I forgot all about, what, consolidate moves after a fight?

There is no consolidation in Kill Team.

Hope that's helpful, and glad to hear you've enjoyed the game.

# ? Jun 16, 2022 18:37

EdsTeioh: Oct 23, 2004; PRAY FOR DEATH

Jack B Nimble posted:

So!

People will tell you Kill Team takes an hour to play, and that may be true for experienced players, but if e us it was about two and a half hours from the time I walked through his door to when the game was stored away again.

Here's how it went for me:

My friend started reviewing the rules, which he'd never seen before then, when I was setting up terrain, and was still doing reviewing them maybe fifteen minutes later.

Then we spent the better part of another half hour doing a lot of things necessary to the start of the game, like setting up models, picking tac ops, discussing what eve tac ops are and whether they should or shouldn't be excluded from this streamlined first game (we included them because they're such a strong driver of gameplay, and it was the right decision).

So, after all that, we finally start the first turn strategies or whatever (recon, fortify, etc). From that point on, right there: about two hours.

Speaking of being a new player, there are some things I want to kind of bounce off the thread:

Plague Marines and pox walkers move very slowly but their dash and charge are the same as everyone else (excepting that I think charge is, like, your move distance +X)?

You really can just fall back out of a fight with no penalty other than being unable to take another move action? Or am I overlooking some check or complication?

I don't really understand the details of entering or leaving concealment/engagement. We sort of naturally adopted a procedure of declaring some people as concealed at the start, moved them up the board according to our understanding of concealment, and once they declared an attack we engaged them and never had anyone renter concealment. But I know there's real rules about re-entering concealment: when you can, how to become engaged again, etc.

We couldn't understand how to set a unit into overwatch and didn't do it, we assumed that if you didn't have a unit shoot they could enter into overwatch instead, but we were just guessing.

Oh haha I just realized I forgot all about, what, consolidate moves after a fight?

Overwatch: If you do not have a model left to activate and your opponent does, you can have a model use the overwatch action for 0AP if that model isn't currently engaged OR has a conceal order.

Basically this evens up the game for smaller teams and keeps the flow going. I don't *think* this applies to operatives with rules letting them shoot with conceal orders (sniper rifles and such)

I'm also curious about re-entering conceal.

E:FB

# ? Jun 16, 2022 18:40

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

Extremely helpful, thanks! I had been doing Fall Back very wrong, only spending one APL to back away from a pox walker and then shooting it , so I'm frankly glad to here that's wrong because this is a much better rule.

Edit: Do I get one overwatch a turn if my opponent has more activations than me, or some amount per a number of enemy models? Like what if I have three models and they have, say, six or seven? Still one overwatch?

Jack B Nimble fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Jun 16, 2022

# ? Jun 16, 2022 18:47

Floppychop: Mar 30, 2012

Each model only gets one overwatch attack. Every time your opponent ends activation with a model: if you would be able to activate, but don't have any models that can, you can choose to overwatch with one.

I don't agree with how they did overwatch, but thems the rules

# ? Jun 16, 2022 18:55

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

Floppychop posted:

Each model only gets one overwatch attack. Every time your opponent ends activation with a model: if you would be able to activate, but don't have any models that can, you can choose to overwatch with one.

I don't agree with how they did overwatch, but thems the rules

I see, thank you. Now, if my opponent activates a 2GA unit, like pox walkers, do I get one possible overwatch from that or two?

# ? Jun 16, 2022 19:15

Refind Chaos: Sep 16, 2007; King of 'tisms mountain

Jack B Nimble posted:

I see, thank you. Now, if my opponent activates a 2GA unit, like pox walkers, do I get one possible overwatch from that or two?

2GA acts as a single activation, so if you still have operatives available you would only get the one overwatch action.

EdsTeioh posted:

I'm also curious about re-entering conceal.

E:FB

Units can change their order from conceal to engage and vice versa at the beginning of their first activation each turning point outside of the first turning point, additionally; some special rules allow operatives to change their order outside of these usual steps.

Those rules are:
1. The "Infilitrate" option during the Scouting phase of the pre-game
2. Iirc the Phobos and the Genestealers each have special rules that let them change orders outside of their initial activation.

Refind Chaos fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Jun 16, 2022

# ? Jun 16, 2022 19:50

Ristolaz: Sep 29, 2005; By completely blowing off my BS you have passed the first trial

You can shoot, fight, and/or dash the same turn that you fall back, as long as you have the APL for it, since yes fall back is 2APL. I can't imagine a scenario where you can fight after falling back though, since you need to end up out of engagement range and you can't charge again.

# ? Jun 16, 2022 20:30

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

Oh, wait, so Space Marines and other 3APL units CAN just peace out of a fight and blast their previously engaged opponent?

Also am I misremembering terms or do they use "engaged" as both "is not concealed" and also "is in a melee fight"?

Edit: yes it seems they use engage in both contexts

Jack B Nimble fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Jun 16, 2022

# ? Jun 16, 2022 21:32

Ristolaz: Sep 29, 2005; By completely blowing off my BS you have passed the first trial

Jack B Nimble posted:

Oh, wait, so Space Marines and other 3APL units CAN just peace out of a fight and blast their previously engaged opponent?

Also am I misremembering terms or do they use "engaged" as both "is not concealed" and also "is in a melee fight"?

Edit: yes it seems they use engage in both contexts

Yes. A space marine with a plasma gun can, and probably should, fall back for 2APL and blast his assailant for 1 more APL.

They both use the root word, but they word things very carefully. The rules won't say an operative is "engaged" period, it will either say it is "within engagement range of another operative" or "has an engage order".

# ? Jun 16, 2022 21:41

jarofpiss: May 16, 2009

god drat it i've been waiting for a copy of mordheim to be available on ebay for under $300 and squidmar goes and makes a video and now everything under $800 is sold. gonna take forever for this to work itself out.

# ? Jun 17, 2022 00:58

jarofpiss: May 16, 2009

i guess i really don't need it because i already have the rulebook printed from blurb and have models for warbands but i still want the box and the cardboard terrain (idk why)

# ? Jun 17, 2022 01:04

Texmo: Jun 12, 2002; 'Time fer a waaagh from above!

As someone who owned that admittedly kinda neat cardboard terrain back in the day, i wouldn't sweat it too much - with a little effort, you can make way cooler stuff yourself out of popsicle sticks and other assorted hobbycraft bits, and it won't cost you hundreds of bux either. You're not really missing out on much if you've already got minis.

# ? Jun 17, 2022 01:54

jarofpiss: May 16, 2009

yeah i already have a really extensive terrain collection and have been able to play mordheim with just the rulebook, i really enjoy the game. the dumb collector brain i have just really wants the original box set. i've been able to hold off because there's literally nothing in that box i actually need to play the game even tangentially but man i want that box art and cardboard terrain.

# ? Jun 17, 2022 02:25

berzerkmonkey: Jul 23, 2003

I love the terrain and have two and a half sets, but I still don't think it's enough to do a good table. It's great stuff, but TBH 3d printed ruins is probably the way to go now.

But I hear you on collector brain - I've got it too...

# ? Jun 17, 2022 02:41

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWuFp8jF85w

AP in KT effects how many dice you roll, not your save value. Whoops! Thankfully, I got most of these right, like what a vantage point does and how melee works.

# ? Jun 17, 2022 03:03

Refind Chaos: Sep 16, 2007; King of 'tisms mountain

Ristolaz posted:

You can shoot, fight, and/or dash the same turn that you fall back, as long as you have the APL for it, since yes fall back is 2APL. I can't imagine a scenario where you can fight after falling back though, since you need to end up out of engagement range and you can't charge again.

Oh awesome! I double checked the rule thank you for pointing that out. For some reason my brain kept reading it as "the operative can't perform any other actions"

You could say Fight and then perform a Fall Back action with a 3 APL operative.

# ? Jun 17, 2022 04:35

working mom: Jul 8, 2015

jarofpiss posted:

god drat it i've been waiting for a copy of mordheim to be available on ebay for under $300 and squidmar goes and makes a video and now everything under $800 is sold. gonna take forever for this to work itself out.

I wonder if any of the bigger names (or friends of) make speculative purchases before they release a vid on something oop

# ? Jun 17, 2022 09:40

lilljonas: May 6, 2007; We got crabs? We got crabs!

jarofpiss posted:

i guess i really don't need it because i already have the rulebook printed from blurb and have models for warbands but i still want the box and the cardboard terrain (idk why)

I played Mordheim with only a printed rulebook, and it works fine.

But then I also went and did a Japanese medieval Mordheim with custom warbands, equipment and board instead, so...

# ? Jun 17, 2022 10:11

dishwasherlove: Nov 26, 2007; The ultimate fusion of man and machine.

Yeah everything Mordheim related is well digitised and easy to access on https://broheim.net/

# ? Jun 17, 2022 10:27

berzerkmonkey: Jul 23, 2003

Mordheim is definitely a game where you need absolutely nothing from the original box to play - you can download a rulebook, buy/make ruined buildings, and use current GW or third party models to represent your warband. It's unbalanced as hell, and some of the missions really suck hard, but it's definitely got an aesthetic that cannot be beat.

# ? Jun 17, 2022 12:44

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

Are the Kill Teams from the ~$80 Octarius starter box the same as the $200 big box?

Edit:

https://taleofpainters.com/2022/01/review-new-kill-team-starter-set-vs-kill-team-octarius/

This details it and they seem to be the same, cool.

# ? Jun 17, 2022 15:18

Randalor: Sep 4, 2011

Jack B Nimble posted:

Are the Kill Teams from the ~$80 Octarius starter box the same as the $200 big box?

Edit:

https://taleofpainters.com/2022/01/review-new-kill-team-starter-set-vs-kill-team-octarius/

This details it and they seem to be the same, cool.

I picked up the Octarious book but don't have the two teams or tokens yet, so I may have to pick up the essentials set. Plus it comes with a small, convenient-sized rulebook.

# ? Jun 17, 2022 15:23

berzerkmonkey: Jul 23, 2003

Jack B Nimble posted:

Are the Kill Teams from the ~$80 Octarius starter box the same as the $200 big box?

Edit:

https://taleofpainters.com/2022/01/review-new-kill-team-starter-set-vs-kill-team-octarius/

This details it and they seem to be the same, cool.

Yep - just no terrain, cards, or actual rules for the Kommandos or DKK (so you'd have to run them as Orks and IG, or track down the lists.)

# ? Jun 17, 2022 15:30

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

berzerkmonkey posted:

Yep - just no terrain, cards, or actual rules for the Kommandos or DKK (so you'd have to run them as Orks and IG, or track down the lists.)

I think it comes with *less* terrain, not none?

# ? Jun 17, 2022 15:35

EdsTeioh: Oct 23, 2004; PRAY FOR DEATH

Yeah I think it comes with barricades and junk piles and poo poo. I'm thinking about picking that box up honestly since it's not much more than buying a second box of Kreigers and also I play Orks in 40k and can use the Kommandos. And also give the system bits to my friend so he has less excuses to not play.

# ? Jun 17, 2022 15:48

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

Yeah, it's kill teams at $40 bucks each AND I already bought the cards separately (it doesn't come with them) AND I don't have any tokens AND my Chalnath set could use some more terrain AND my friend can have the rules booklet.

I'll expert enough control to not buy it right this second but it's going to be my next purchase.

# ? Jun 17, 2022 15:58

berzerkmonkey: Jul 23, 2003

Jack B Nimble posted:

I think it comes with *less* terrain, not none?

I wasn't counting the scatter "junk piles" as terrain, but yes, you are correct.

# ? Jun 17, 2022 18:11

Geisladisk: Sep 15, 2007

Despoiler. Decided to go with the standard GW color scheme, turned out pretty good.

# ? Jun 17, 2022 18:41

EdsTeioh: Oct 23, 2004; PRAY FOR DEATH

God dang that's a cool rear end ship. Reminds me of The Black Hole a little and 100% makes me want to play BFG :-(

# ? Jun 17, 2022 18:56

Refind Chaos: Sep 16, 2007; King of 'tisms mountain

Jack B Nimble posted:

Yeah, it's kill teams at $40 bucks each AND I already bought the cards separately (it doesn't come with them) AND I don't have any tokens AND my Chalnath set could use some more terrain AND my friend can have the rules booklet.

I'll expert enough control to not buy it right this second but it's going to be my next purchase.

It is a really good value, I already had the Octarius set but bought the Starter Box as well because the two teams alone cost more than the Starter Box. Also the second set of the measuring templates is nice.

# ? Jun 17, 2022 19:31

Virtual Russian: Sep 15, 2008

Geisladisk posted:

Despoiler. Decided to go with the standard GW color scheme, turned out pretty good.

Great job, this looks better than the stuff in the rulebook. That sculpt is what? 20 years old now?

# ? Jun 17, 2022 21:49

Robert Facepalmer: Jan 10, 2019

Pretty sure that is a print. It doesn't have the goofy skulls n' stars the original ones had.

# ? Jun 17, 2022 22:12

Beffer: Sep 25, 2007

jarofpiss posted:

god drat it i've been waiting for a copy of mordheim to be available on ebay for under $300 and squidmar goes and makes a video and now everything under $800 is sold. gonna take forever for this to work itself out.

I�m keen to see the board he makes though. I�ve never played mordheim but I�ve always loved the aesthetic

# ? Jun 17, 2022 22:58

Geisladisk: Sep 15, 2007

Robert Facepalmer posted:

Pretty sure that is a print. It doesn't have the goofy skulls n' stars the original ones had.

Yeah it's a print.

There are tons of BFG prints out there that are straight up the exact same designs and GW doesn't give a drat because it is out of print.

And these prints are actually way better than the actual GW models, because those are over twenty years old.

For comparison, here is the official miniature:

I really enjoy how printing has made it easy to get good models for a game that has been dead for fifteen years.

# ? Jun 17, 2022 23:12

Loxbourne: Apr 6, 2011; Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

Speaking of old BFG stuff, I recently picked up a bunch of old plastic Imperial cruisers on eBay. A lot of them have their ramming spikes broken off. Any idea where I could get replacements?

# ? Jun 18, 2022 18:46

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

I'm going to my second Kill Team game tomorrow, this time against a dude who's just a friend of a friend from the LGS. We're just playing to have fun and learn but it'll be a bit more competitive, so I was hoping for some unit tips.

I don't know what he'll be playing but I've seen him play Tau twice in 40k. I want to run sisters of battle from my Combat Patrol box, and that means:

10 sisters of battle with:

1 superior with a chain sword and a bolt gun (is this legal, both are on the data card but do I need to proxy it as a bolt pistol)?

1 ... Icon bearer? The big pole that's like a banner.

2 gunners, one with flamer and one with storm bolter.

Tips on how to use them, or equipment to take in matched play?

# ? Jun 18, 2022 19:40

Refind Chaos: Sep 16, 2007; King of 'tisms mountain

Jack B Nimble posted:

I'm going to my second Kill Team game tomorrow, this time against a dude who's just a friend of a friend from the LGS. We're just playing to have fun and learn but it'll be a bit more competitive, so I was hoping for some unit tips.

I don't know what he'll be playing but I've seen him play Tau twice in 40k. I want to run sisters of battle from my Combat Patrol box, and that means:

10 sisters of battle with:

1 superior with a chain sword and a bolt gun (is this legal, both are on the data card but do I need to proxy it as a bolt pistol)?

1 ... Icon bearer? The big pole that's like a banner.

2 gunners, one with flamer and one with storm bolter.

Tips on how to use them, or equipment to take in matched play?

Quick look at the compendium: Yes that is a legal loadout for the Battle Sister Superior.

As for advice... Equipment looks like you'd be best on focusing grenades and maybe a restoration phial on the Superior.

# ? Jun 18, 2022 23:11

Geisladisk: Sep 15, 2007

1000ish points of chaos done, now to do a couple of Imperial cruisers and wrangle someone into playing with me.

# ? Jun 18, 2022 23:57

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# ? May 23, 2024 08:33

Improbable Lobster: Jan 6, 2012; "From each according to his ability" said Ares. It sounded like a quotation.; Buglord

One of these days I'll get a 3d printer just to make some spaceships and other OOP stuff to paint

# ? Jun 19, 2022 00:12

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