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i know it keeps coming back around but "it cant be that stupid you must be explaining it wrong" ive eaten three whole bags of popcorn today, glad i was stocked up
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Jun 19, 2022 05:49
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:because you could simply trade a fake dollar for a real dollar, making the fake dollar have exactly one dollar of real value. it would always be worth one real dollar no matter what, as long as you could freely exchange it for a real dollar. Oh I get it now. So if these exchanges where people buy and sell their currency are injecting new coins into their economy, they need to also inject the actual dollars that the value is pegged to so that people can actually buy and sell their currency at that price. Thank you!
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Jun 19, 2022 05:50
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These stablecoins are being artificially inflated, and aren't really tradable for one USD. Still, these are being traded for bitcoin on the blind faith that they are worth one USD. Stablecoins are being minted en mass so that more people have more buying power for purchasing Bitcoin, but people selling the Bitcoin for stablecoin are not actually receiving something worth what is claimed in actual USD.
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Jun 19, 2022 05:53
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edit: ^^^^ correctBeartaco posted:Oh I get it now. So if these exchanges where people buy and sell their currency are injecting new coins into their economy, they need to also inject the actual dollars that the value is pegged to so that people can actually buy and sell their currency at that price. what they appear to be doing is conjuring up fake dollars out of thin air and then loaning them to others. the fake dollars then becomes backed by the collateral that the borrowers put up. but if that collateral is other crypto currency, which itself is being boosted in value by fake dollars, the whole system becomes a teetering house of cards waiting to collapse.
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Jun 19, 2022 05:54
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https://twitter.com/philrosenn/status/1538136984979488768 https://twitter.com/philrosenn/status/1538136990725570562 i wish this dude would lose all his money but sadly he probably won't.
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Jun 19, 2022 05:55
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MarcusSA posted:I’d love to see the math on this. Me too. A quick look on Portfolio Visualizer for "US Large Cap" (for S&P 500) purchased in monthly $100 installments starting five years ago comes out to $9,905, a far cry from his initial estimate. Even pushing the start up to June 2017 wouldn't bring it in line to his $7,743 figure. I mean, you'd already be contributing $1,200 per year during a massive bull run, so $6,000 happens without any growth. Hitch that to the S&P 500 wagon and those are some healthy gains, even with the recent downturn. 
Space Fish fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Jun 19, 2022 |
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Jun 19, 2022 05:57
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priznat posted:The thing that gets me about these crypto dork tweets (and the companies too) is that even apart from the stuff they are saying is utter bullshit they are so loving smug sounding. Like every time I read one it just gets my hackles up and I want to fight them.
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Jun 19, 2022 05:58
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buglord posted:idiot question time: Crypto Critics Corner does a really great job of doing deep dives into just how stupid all this poo poo is. They also have a great tik tok account that condenses a lot of it into bite size chunks (@cryptocriticpod). The main dude is really smart with a deep understanding and is able to make it easy to understand. He called LUNA and other stuff out way before the crashes. It can also be quite funny as I've seen them have multiple crypto people on where they asked the questions in a way that got their guests to blatantly outline how what they were doing is a ponzi scheme without the guests really catching on. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfPQrqsmYFFRK0NKLEr27Bg
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Jun 19, 2022 05:58
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:edit: ^^^^ correct And these loans are the means by which the minted stable coins are being distributed to the bitcoin buying populace. What does one of those loans look like? We'll loan you 5,000 stablecoins and you pay back 5,100 stablecoins, those 100 stable coins you made by investing in Bitcoin?
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Jun 19, 2022 05:58
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:edit: ^^^^ correct so... exactly like every cryptocurrency?
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Jun 19, 2022 05:59
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MarcusSA posted:Yeah that’s about what I figured lol Same data is available for DJIA and S&P500. Running the same math on the S&P says that you'd have somewhere between 0.211 and 0.228 "units" of the S&P500 index, worth somewhere between $6261 and $7598. So he's in the ballpark, actually on the high side there. As you point out, though, that's neglecting dividends and reinvestment. But the dividends look pretty low, and don't seem to change the math much. Based on this, I'm getting that compounding monthly over 5 years gives you an extra $150 or so. Eh. But if you're investing in an index fund you don't want wild payouts, you want consistency. BTC did give wildly high returns, but you had to be lucky about when you bought it and sold it, and there was every chance that the money would go to 0 instead of increasing. The index fund is low return and boring because when it comes to retirement money, boring is good. EDIT: Given that a post a couple up from mine comes up with much better numbers for the S&P, these numbers are probably off. I was just doing back-of-the-Excel-sheet math, so I probably forgot something or messed up the numbers. But it's probably the same mistake that Twitter person made! Karia fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Jun 19, 2022 |
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Jun 19, 2022 06:00
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And these stable coins were invented to create an abstraction for the buying and selling of crypto, because actual real banks and regulators made it too difficult to do the sort of speculative trading that crypto enthusiasts were wont to do. All of the speculative trading is then done with easily transferable stablecoins which can then (theoretically) be used as the front end for the lengthy and difficult cash-out process. Thanks for the answers everyone, and also for putting up with me posting my learning process here. I'm just kind of putting the pieces together as I post.
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Jun 19, 2022 06:04
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Beartaco posted:And these stable coins were invented to create an abstraction for the buying and selling of crypto, because actual real banks and regulators made it too difficult to do the sort of speculative trading that crypto enthusiasts were wont to do. All of the speculative trading is then done with easily transferable stablecoins which can then (theoretically) be used as the front end for the lengthy and difficult cash-out process. bitcoin was created to buy model train parts. Anyone telling you anything different is just trying to bump up the price
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Jun 19, 2022 06:07
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Suppose that all crypto settlements are done in a stablecoin whose issuer is insolvent because it invested in bad Chinese real estate or something. Now consider that the issuer is just an agent of the crypto traders, and look at the big picture: - Crypto traders are buying investments with dollars, then exchanging those investments for crypto. - Any drop in the investments' value means that the crypto goes up relative to the investments. - That isn't what the traders tell each other and the world though. They say that the crypto has gone up in dollars, because they all agree to ignore/lie about the condition of the investments. - Occasionally a trader will decide to cash out. To do that, he has to sell investments actually worth what his stablecoin position is nominally worth. That means he has to either sell some of the better investments in the stablecoin portfolio, or oversell bad ones. Either option is going to worsen the condition of the investment portfolio for those who haven't cashed out.
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Jun 19, 2022 06:11
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not to interrupt fraud stablecoin discussion (crypto critics corner is a great podcast), but the btc price just broke under 18,000 again
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Jun 19, 2022 06:27
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Booyah- posted:not to interrupt fraud stablecoin discussion (crypto critics corner is a great podcast), but the btc price just broke under 18,000 again Keep your hands inside the ride folks!
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Jun 19, 2022 06:28
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Gazpacho posted:Suppose that all crypto settlements are done in a stablecoin whose issuer is insolvent because it invested in bad Chinese real estate or something. Who cares? Number goes up. That means I'm rich
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Jun 19, 2022 06:34
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Booyah- posted:not to interrupt fraud stablecoin discussion (crypto critics corner is a great podcast), but the btc price just broke under 18,000 again It's dropped below 18k a couple times now, but it looks like there is some effort going in to try make 18k the floor. Hopefully the resistance won't last long.
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Jun 19, 2022 06:41
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CaptainSarcastic posted:It's dropped below 18k a couple times now, but it looks like there is some effort going in to try make 18k the floor. Hopefully the resistance won't last long. I assume it'll last until the cartels throwing money at the problem deplete their reserves
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Jun 19, 2022 06:42
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I feel like Tether is one of those load-bearing drywall cases that's usually forgotten about but is one day going to blow up and probably take a country or two with it.
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Jun 19, 2022 06:50
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A genuine thanks folks, I'll freely admit I know nothing about stocks and investing, so the explanations in the thread add a beautiful bit of seasoning to laughing at the line going down. As a contribution, an old friend of mine who did his apprenticeship at the same time as me managed to pull off the rare triple self own: Lose well paying job in Australian mine due to being antivaxx Decide you don't need the man, you're a genius and can make more money on your own. Invest everything into bitcoin Lose everything Go back to work in the mine as the vaccine requirements have been dropped Have your wife leave you because you're now working a 4month on, 2 month off roster in another country and she doesn't want to move or spend 8 months a year without you. Dudes in a pretty dark place, but I can't help be like.... this was all, every single bit of it, on you mate.
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Jun 19, 2022 06:52
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(there is a third option for the exiting trader, which is to hype up the scheme and get other people to put their money in so that he can walk away with it)
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Jun 19, 2022 07:00
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Gazpacho posted:(there is a third option for the exiting trader, which is to hype up the scheme and get other people to put their money in so that he can walk away with it) go for it sell it all.
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Jun 19, 2022 07:23
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Can someone please explain the "mining" part in half-assed terms for me? Why are they using so many computers? I have heard it compared to solving sudokus?? Computers have to solve puzzles to make the fake money? Why can't they just save transactions in normal databases or whatever? Is the whole point to use an unregulated mishmash of computers of whoever wants to do so instead of using a minimal set of regulated private servers?
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Jun 19, 2022 07:26
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run on sentience posted:Can someone please explain the "mining" part in half-assed terms for me? Why are they using so many computers? I have heard it compared to solving sudokus?? Computers have to solve puzzles to make the fake money? Why can't they just save transactions in normal databases or whatever? Is the whole point to use an unregulated mishmash of computers of whoever wants to do so instead of using a minimal set of regulated private servers? Someone set up a program that does a kind of math problem that takes time, and gets longer each time it's done. when it's done it generates a number that is a "coin." this then is traded online for illegal goods. over time people figured out to get people to buy more coins with real money instead of just buying computers and mining it, they did this through online scams and hacks and getting idiots to buy bitcoin and send it to them for ransomware. also people started trading the "speculative value" of every aspect of these coins, so you can gamble on every part of the chain of stuff, even though it's inherently worthless and not secure at all.
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Jun 19, 2022 07:32
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run on sentience posted:Can someone please explain the "mining" part in half-assed terms for me? Why are they using so many computers? I have heard it compared to solving sudokus?? Computers have to solve puzzles to make the fake money? Why can't they just save transactions in normal databases or whatever? Is the whole point to use an unregulated mishmash of computers of whoever wants to do so instead of using a minimal set of regulated private servers?
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Jun 19, 2022 07:33
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run on sentience posted:Can someone please explain the "mining" part in half-assed terms for me? Why are they using so many computers? I have heard it compared to solving sudokus?? Computers have to solve puzzles to make the fake money? Why can't they just save transactions in normal databases or whatever? Is the whole point to use an unregulated mishmash of computers of whoever wants to do so instead of using a minimal set of regulated private servers? computers do random numbers, in a ten minute period, the ones that select best ones win. There is no math involved
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Jun 19, 2022 07:34
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Agents are GO! posted:It sounds like you have an excellent grasp of it already, and you're just having problems accepting that, yes, it really is that loving dumb. The thing I really don't understand is how they can "lower the difficulty" of mining on demand. Like yeah, sure, you need to do math homework because of authentication or whatever... But how is it possible that you can just decide to do less math authenticating the transactions just because you don't feel like doing all of it? Like Visa / Mastercard announcing they aren't going to require security codes for online payments in the next 3 hours, to save on server costs.
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Jun 19, 2022 07:40
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steinrokkan posted:The thing I really don't understand is how they can "lower the difficulty" of mining on demand. Like yeah, sure, you need to do math homework because of authentication or whatever... But how is it possible that you can just decide to do less math authenticating the transactions just because you don't feel like doing all of it? so like it goes from needing to be 0000000000000000000000000000069420 to 000000000000000000000000000069420
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Jun 19, 2022 07:41
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this thread is bibliomancy. u just go to a random page and read a random post and ur mood will instantly improve
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Jun 19, 2022 07:41
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the whole thing is a protocol agreed upon by all the miners, its immutable, harder money than any gold or diamonds or, or, oh wait actually if the miners all decide they don't like something they'll just fork it again decentralized!
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Jun 19, 2022 07:41
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There's lots of math in mining. The race is to find a magic number that, when you encrypt it, comes out to a certain value. The first person to match gets a prize, namely, some Bitcoin in their electronic account. Everyone checks the winners math and they all agree he won, and they make a record in a big text file called "the blockchain" that everyone has a copy of. Meanwhile, they pick a new winning number and everyone again tries to find the magic number that produces the winning output. It's Impossible to guess the magic number, so you have to try a LOT of guesses. This needs computers that can do fast encryption, and lots of them. This eats up fucktons of electricity and is Bad.
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Jun 19, 2022 07:43
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^^^ yeah
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Jun 19, 2022 07:44
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run on sentience posted:Can someone please explain the "mining" part in half-assed terms for me? Why are they using so many computers? I have heard it compared to solving sudokus?? Computers have to solve puzzles to make the fake money? Why can't they just save transactions in normal databases or whatever? Is the whole point to use an unregulated mishmash of computers of whoever wants to do so instead of using a minimal set of regulated private servers? I think the best quick explanation is probably the few minutes at the beginning of the Dan Olsen video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ_xWvX1n9g&t=430s An even shorter version is that it's supposed to be a public record of transactions that anyone can add to. But instead of using a trusted authority with a normal database, it's supposed to be a trustless system where any server can host the entire distrusted record and attempt to add to add a transaction to it. To enforce consensus on what the single version of history is, they turn the act of adding a new chunk of transactions into a cryptographic hashing problem (proof of work) where whichever server solves the problem first has the new authoritative record of history and is awarded new bitcoin for doing so.
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Jun 19, 2022 07:46
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Nessus posted:The number has a huge quantity of 0s in front of the actual number, I am told; and when the difficulty goes down, it means it requires fewer 0's. if i guessed you you were going to say that would you give me $18,000?
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Jun 19, 2022 07:49
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Oh my God that's all even dumber than I thought. Thank you all. I find this all very fascinating. So much of it is pretty much the definition of gobbledygook and yet people believe in it religiously.
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Jun 19, 2022 07:51
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Gerard's explanation at Queens University Bellfast is good too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCXX2DNMcBk&t=554s digresses at 16:03, then picks up again at 24:46 which is where the question is specifically answered
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Jun 19, 2022 07:51
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Mumpy Puffinz posted:if i guessed you you were going to say that would you give me $18,000? 18000 LUNA maybe
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Jun 19, 2022 07:52
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Strong Sauce posted:i wish this dude would lose all his money but sadly he probably won't. Amazingly he was too dumb and unlikeable to become the leader of the federal conservative party of canada, usually those are the prerequisites for the job.
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Jun 19, 2022 07:53
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run on sentience posted:Can someone please explain the "mining" part in half-assed terms for me? Why are they using so many computers? I have heard it compared to solving sudokus?? Computers have to solve puzzles to make the fake money? Why can't they just save transactions in normal databases or whatever? Is the whole point to use an unregulated mishmash of computers of whoever wants to do so instead of using a minimal set of regulated private servers? It helps to think of it this way: When a government wants to make fiat money at a given rate (e.g., "we want to add $5 billion into the economy this year"), it's easy: the government is the only entity allowed to make the money, so they make it at the desired rate. Simple. But there is no central government like authority in charge of making units of cryptocurrency. So, to make sure the coins are produced at the desired rate, the system is set up to have lots of networked computers ("miners") do wasteful mathematics - basically, the computers are trying to solve problems which take many guesses to solve. This math will be computed at a known speed, given how much computing power is on the network. This is because the network knows how many "guesses per second" can be made. When your computer happens to make the right guess, you get a little bit of cryptocurrency. When more computing power is added to the network, the math is automatically adjusted such that new coins will still be created at the desired rate. So adding lots of fast computers will not cause coins to be made any faster than before. YOU might receive coins faster if YOUR machine can guess very fast, but the total rate of new coins being made will stay the same. This is one reason libertarians who obsess over inflation like cryptocurrency (and is why some people claim cryptocurrency is a good thing to invest in if you want to guard against inflation - big lol to that during this crash). Anyway, you wanted to know why they use so many computers. It's because if you have more computing power than the next guy, your machines will make the correct guesses more often, and you will be rewarded with more currency. So every miner is in a race against every other miner to try to have as much computing power as possible - when someone else gets more computing power, your rate of getting new cryptocurrency slows down! Ultimately, if you're serious about mining, you need lots of computing power which means you need lots of computers. The large number of fast computers is why cryptocurrency uses so much electricity. And also why cryptocurrency uses so many graphics cards: graphics cards can make guesses very fast. And yeah, the whole point of this system is so there is no central system in charge of it all. It's convoluted and wasteful by design. Chimp_On_Stilts fucked around with this message at 08:09 on Jun 19, 2022 |
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Jun 19, 2022 07:59
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