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H110Hawk posted:BUT you should head over to the home wiring thread if you want to learn more.... You are in over your head right now and could make a few lethal mistakes that are trivially avoided. Which other home wiring thread is there so I can ensure that there's no undue competition?
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Jun 20, 2022 03:45
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I swear I will TURN THIS CAR AROUND.
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Jun 20, 2022 03:50
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I want to see this fight between the wiring thread and this supposed "home wiring thread." Can I hit them with 277/480 just to see them panic? Ask them to explain the differences between delta and wye?
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Jun 20, 2022 09:21
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the other wiring thread
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Jun 20, 2022 09:34
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Motronic posted:This is getting super specific for advice for something like this on a comedy forum. Or any forum. I gotcha. I was going by the obviously outdated OP from 2009 where a licensed electrician said he would help assist with questions. Yea, it’s a comedy forum, but we have subforums for a reason and I rely on the subforums for a lot of great information because the info you and others provide is 99% better than I receive on DIY forums filled with bubbas trying to jury rig something. Maybe I misread your post on the “red and black into one terminal”, which is why I was trying to confirm the information. It would make much more sense to do a pigtail red and black to the terminal rather than putting both wires on one terminal. Same thing for taking a white wire out of the wire cap bundle. I’m assuming there’s got to be code written saying how many wires a wire cap can include, but I’ll hire a professional for this one. One question: I’m used to referencing the code of federal regulations for ship inspections in my job, where things are broken up by applicability based on year of build, passenger capacity, hull material, etc. is the UL code kind of the one-stop shop for something similar or are there other references electricians use to determine what’s up to code?
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Jun 20, 2022 13:29
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nwin posted:One question: I’m used to referencing the code of federal regulations for ship inspections in my job, where things are broken up by applicability based on year of build, passenger capacity, hull material, etc. is the UL code kind of the one-stop shop for something similar or are there other references electricians use to determine what’s up to code? NFPA 70 is the National Electric Code (NEC) which forms the basis for essentially every state’s local codes. Specific jurisdictions then can add onto this, as I’ve learned from this thread… specific regional variations do exist. AFAIK, page 2/3 on Google (or page 1 of other engines) will reveal a PDF of an older version… but I think you can sign up for a free account on NFPALink to browse it online to check specifics. Libraries might have printed copies as well.
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Jun 20, 2022 14:51
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nwin posted:
everything that gets listed has to abide by the NEC, so you will end up with "manufacturer's specifications" as being what to go by. ie, there's no code about staples for NM cable but the manufacturer says you can only put two 14 gauge NM cables under one blue staple. there's a few things that the NEC does not go into detail about but another part of the NFPA does, like energy storage systems. power companies have their own code and guidelines, good luck pushing back on any of it, and what's more the feds/military don't have to follow any of the NEC. something that's readily apparent if you ever have to work on something like former Navy housing.
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Jun 21, 2022 02:35
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Also in a lot of jurisdictions they are using the i-codes, so the NEC isn't what's adopted, it's just used by reference in the relevant code(s). Which 100% means that only the referenced portions are code for that area, not anything that wasn't referenced specifically.
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Jun 21, 2022 14:17
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https://dockingdrawer.com/pages/collections-all This stuff is pretty slick, and so close to something I would really like. Intertek not UL but what are you going to do. Has a thermal cutoff. This is going to be in the back of my head for any future remodel though I would really like to see longevity on it. The overpriced power strip from my fully standing desk with USB-c pd+USB-a already is making GBS threads the bed. Thanks for listening home zone friends.
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Jun 23, 2022 02:52
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If you need chargers you get the Anker brand one and figure out how to make it fit lmfao at paying $300 for dollar store electronics just because it has a weird form factor e: also the standard caveat that USB standards are written on the wind while NEMA 5-15 is forever. Imagine how you'd feel if you popped to hardwire your house with 700mA 5v USB-A outlets a few years ago. shame on an IGA fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Jun 23, 2022 |
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Jun 23, 2022 14:40
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shame on an IGA posted:If you need chargers you get the Anker brand one and figure out how to make it fit lmfao at paying $300 for dollar store electronics just because it has a weird form factor Yeah I won't be spending $500 on that for a drawer charger but I think it looks slick. Honestly if Apple came out with one at the same price point I would actually trust it to be a durable gizmo assuming they could resist putting only proprietary ports.
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Jun 23, 2022 14:56
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This seems close enough to electricity to post here... My workshop space (which was used as a workshop by the PO) has this massive squirrel cage blower that doesn't work. I removed it from its mounting on the wall to see if I could learn anything about it or maybe try and fix it.  It has a dodgy looking cord coming out of it, so dodgy that I was afraid to plug it in. But I finally turned off a breaker, plugged it in, and tried to turn it on by flipping the breaker. It immediately tripped the breaker (which is a combo AFCI/GFCI breaker). It's a 20 AMP circuit with no other load, so I'm assuming it's the AFCI or GFCI component of the breaker that tripped. I can't find any identifying information on the motor itself, and the cord just goes into the housing so I can't see much without doing further disassembly. There is one component with markings, which from my research appears to be a capacitor.  Normally I'd be pretty comfortable sticking my hands into the guts of an unplugged electrical device, but the presence of a capacitor gives me pause. And I'm not even sure how to interpret the markings there to know what I would need to do to replace it, if the capacitor ended up being the problem. I also can't even be sure that it's 120V. It's a 515P plug, but there used to be a 220V outlet in that location. And the plug/cord is clearly homemade. And the wiring in there was, shall we say, dodgy before I replaced it all, so really I can't assume anything about how it used to be. I would like, if possible, to make this operational because it was built into the wall and the siding was put in to accommodate it, so replacing it would be rather involved. And I can't seem to find anything even remotely this size (it's over 2 feet wide, most everything I can find is less than 8 inches). Is there a way I can troubleshoot/repair this safely without frying myself? And if so, where would I go to even learn about how to do that? Is there someone I could just bring this to and say "fix please"?
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Jun 23, 2022 17:16
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H110Hawk posted:Yeah I won't be spending $500 on that for a drawer charger but I think it looks slick. Honestly if Apple came out with one at the same price point I would actually trust it to be a durable gizmo assuming they could resist putting only proprietary ports. Apple is the last company I'd trust to make a charger that can handle repeated cable flex. They don't seem to understand strain relief at all.
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Jun 23, 2022 18:22
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Apple understands strain relief. It’s just that they also believe that addressing it would compromise their artistic vision for the cables.
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Jun 23, 2022 20:03
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They probably also understand thermal throttling but it's still almost immediately present in some of their products. They know what they can get away with to still have people buying.
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Jun 23, 2022 21:28
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FISHMANPET posted:Is there a way I can troubleshoot/repair this safely without frying myself? And if so, where would I go to even learn about how to do that? Is there someone I could just bring this to and say "fix please"? If you can get to the capacitor's connectors, all you have to do to discharge it is short across them with a screwdriver or something like it. It's also a start cap on a motor - it won't feel good to get zapped by it but it's also not capable of causing any real harm. Just work on it one-handed and/or with heavy gloves until you get the capacitor isolated or removed. Beyond that, there should be a nameplate on the motor itself that includes things like voltage and horsepower and other relevant specs. I'd also give the fan itself a spin and make sure it isn't mechanically locked up, though with an instant-trip like that I suspect the issue is a dead short somewhere.
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Jun 23, 2022 21:59
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FISHMANPET posted:Is there a way I can troubleshoot/repair this safely without frying myself? And if so, where would I go to even learn about how to do that? Is there someone I could just bring this to and say "fix please"? So you can get blowers like this, Grainger for example. They are known as "low profile blowers". I'd start by looking for shorts to ground, check ohm reading from each conductor on the motor to ground, if you have a short to ground you are probably screwed. The capacitor could also be shorted, in which case it has no charge. People get afraid of capacitors because of big potential TV caps, but this guy is not that. If all else just short the two leads on the cap together with a screwdriver to discharge and then follow some random YouTube video on checking caps. If the windings are shot, unless you live in a very unique place in the country, you are poo poo out of luck. Our local motor place won't touch motors under 50hp for re-winding. You may have centrifugal switches on one end of the motor that switches from start to run, and if those are stuck in some weird spot you can get a short. Does it spin freely? If not, and the bearings are seized, it at least looks like you can tear it open.
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Jun 23, 2022 22:05
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IOwnCalculus posted:It's also a start cap on a motor - it won't feel good to get zapped by it but it's also not capable of causing any real harm. It’s also three microfarads, which is fuckall. FISHMANPET, you did the right thing by asking before messing with it, but the danger here is low. Platystemon fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Jun 23, 2022 |
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Jun 23, 2022 22:34
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So thaaaaat's what "3 MFD" means, ok yeah that makes me a lot less scared. E: After I posted it occurred to me I could google "Electric Motor Repair" and I actually found a local place that even says they'll rewinding: https://www.acdcpennelectricmotor.com/service So if I get too lost I feel like I've got a fallback I can take it to. FISHMANPET fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Jun 23, 2022 |
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Jun 23, 2022 22:52
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Platystemon posted:It’s also three microfarads, which is fuckall. How's that compare to the flash cap in a disposable camera? Because those things hurt.
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Jun 23, 2022 22:55
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BonerGhost posted:How's that compare to the flash cap in a disposable camera? Because those things hurt. 80-160 microfarads according to Wikipedia, so a lot more than what I've got.
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Jun 23, 2022 22:57
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FISHMANPET posted:So thaaaaat's what "3 MFD" means, ok yeah that makes me a lot less scared. Yeah old caps are printed like that. It’s wrong and relies on knowing context. Megafarad, the literal meaning, is a completely absurd unit. Modern supercapacitors can be in the range of single farad at 330 V. Nothing does multiple millions. “Millifarad” is less unreasonable but still an inaccurate interpretation.
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Jun 23, 2022 23:04
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Here’s a recent Big Clive video featuring a similar capacitor situation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZS2AeYB_WI It’s not great to have that charge exposed on the Edison screw terminals, but it’s not killing a bunch of people, either. They’re just probably not leaving good reviews.
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Jun 23, 2022 23:18
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IOwnCalculus posted:If you can get to the capacitor's connectors, all you have to do to discharge it is short across them with a screwdriver or something like it. It's also a start cap on a motor - it won't feel good to get zapped by it but it's also not capable of causing any real harm. Just work on it one-handed and/or with heavy gloves until you get the capacitor isolated or removed. yeah, agreed. as old and dried out as that insulation looks it might be cracked apart and shorted somewhere
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Jun 24, 2022 00:11
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Also a good idea to safety squint and turn your head when you discharge it. It's good practice.
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Jun 24, 2022 00:51
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I managed to find the nameplate, it was sort of buried against the capacitor. You can't see it in the picture, but there's a little T stamped just to the left of "Control Types" so seems reasonable that it's a 115V motor. I spent some more time trying to take it apart and I pulled a lot of screws off but can't really figure out how to actually get it apart. The casing around the fan blades was screwed to the "back" but also the metal was folded around so I can't really get those off, and that means I can't get to the set screw that holds the fan blades to the axle of the motor, which means the motor itself remains stuck between the two fan bodies. And without pulling the motor out I can't open up the casing around the motor. I got out my multi-meter and there doesn't seem to be continuity between the ground pin to the hot or the neutral pin. But I plugged it directly into a GFCI outlet and it tripped the GFCI. But without getting off that casing, I can't actually get to any of the actual connections. I have stumbled on Grainger, including that particular unit, and I may just end up going with that. But even that is tiny compared to what I've got.  The base of the whole unit is 30 inches wide, that Grainger unit is 14 3/4, so literally less than half as wide. The width of the opening on one of my fan boxes is 13 inches, with that Grainger fan it's only 4 3/4. I'm kind of mesmerized because I can't find anything remotely as large as what I've got. I'd be really curious to see what kind of CFM this thing could move if I get it working. My workshop is 2880 Cubic Feet, so if I wanted to exchange the air 4-5 times per hour I'd need 240CFM. But really I just want to pull in outside air to cool off the space, because it's south facing with a black roof, so if it's been a sunny day it could be 10-20 degrees hotter inside than it is outside, and getting some cooler air would be very nice. E: I clicked around a few pages more on the Grainger catalogue and found these Air Curtain Blower Assembly which look an awful lot like what I've got, though ironically that's the smallest one they have and it's wider than mine and 2.5 times more amperage than mine. And is $650. But maybe that gives me some words to search for that will find something to better fit my existing opening. FISHMANPET fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Jun 24, 2022 |
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Jun 24, 2022 03:27
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it's a 1/12 HP motor, it's not going to move much more or less air than any other fan with a 1/12HP motor. But what you can do is find a higher HP K-frame motor turning 1100-1200 RPM to replace it with
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Jun 24, 2022 03:38
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The dataplate is for only the motor. The rest of the fan and everything is separate and not included in that part number. You're looking at a 1/12HP motor, foot-mounted, with shafts at each end. Get some measurements from the foot base to the center of the shaft and you can probably find something. Standard fractional frame sizes are measured in 1/16" of an inch from the base to center of shaft e.g. frame 48 has its shaft center at 3". "Frame K" used to mean something, and "Style 148" is probably "shaft on each end." This is definitely a motor Pre-1964 and perhaps Pre-1952, since letter-designated frames went away with NEMA frame sizes then. edit: I'm looking at Grainger standard HVAC motors, and you can get something pretty cheap. CWLE means Clockwise from Lead End. If you're looking at the end where the wires come out, then the shaft spins clockwise normally. CCWLE spins the other way. babyeatingpsychopath fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Jun 24, 2022 |
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Jun 24, 2022 03:42
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Forgot to add that it does still spin. Also reassuring to know that there's some kind of standardization for electric motors, so if I can ever figure out how to get the drat thing apart I might have some hope of putting a new motor in the existing body. I think I need to pick up some long hex wrenches, as it appears to be a hex head screw holding the blower cage to the motor shaft. Also speaking of age, every screw on there is a flat-head, my quick googling indicates phillips head were pretty prevalent by even 1940. The garage was built in 1920, is it possible this thing could be from the 20s or 30s?
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Jun 24, 2022 03:51
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FISHMANPET posted:Forgot to add that it does still spin. Also reassuring to know that there's some kind of standardization for electric motors, so if I can ever figure out how to get the drat thing apart I might have some hope of putting a new motor in the existing body. It is quite possible, Emerson has been making fans & blowers since the 1890s
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Jun 24, 2022 11:23
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Recently picked up two portable AC units and was surprised when running both on the same circuit blew the 15A breaker. I've since found that running them on the "low" fan setting allows them both to run in AC mode and not trip the breaker. There isn't anything else on the circuit. I do have a killawatt so I'll take a look at how much they're actually pulling but the stickers on them say the rated current is 12A and the "cooling current" is 8A. I'm guessing that 12A is the absolute highest you could draw in the AC mode with the fan on the highest setting. I don't really understand current so wanted to ask here. Is this expected behavior in that 8A+8A=16A which is larger than the 15A breaker? I have other outlets in the rooms that are on other 15A circuits. Is a solution to use a very high gauge 6' extension cord from another outlet? Each AC unit has it's own resettable breaker on the plug itself. Thanks.
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Jun 26, 2022 03:57
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VelociBacon posted:Recently picked up two portable AC units and was surprised when running both on the same circuit blew the 15A breaker. I've since found that running them on the "low" fan setting allows them both to run in AC mode and not trip the breaker. There isn't anything else on the circuit. Yup. And when they kick on from a dead start they hit 24a combined. It's that simple. Move one to another breaker. You need at least 14awg for your extension cord, but 12a would be better. 16awg is not enough.
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Jun 26, 2022 04:14
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It's worth noting that the recommended maximum continuous load on a circuit is 80% of its max load. That is, you shouldn't be putting more than 12A continuous load on a 15A circuit. But yes, pretty much anything with a motor will draw higher than its listed rating for a brief period while starting up.
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Jun 26, 2022 04:51
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H110Hawk posted:Yup. And when they kick on from a dead start they hit 24a combined. It's that simple. Move one to another breaker. You need at least 14awg for your extension cord, but 12a would be better. 16awg is not enough. TooMuchAbstraction posted:It's worth noting that the recommended maximum continuous load on a circuit is 80% of its max load. That is, you shouldn't be putting more than 12A continuous load on a 15A circuit. But yes, pretty much anything with a motor will draw higher than its listed rating for a brief period while starting up. Thanks for the quick and informative responses. I'll source that extension cord. How long a cord could I get away with? Would be nice to be able to route it a little bit discreetly but it might come out closer to 10'. Also easier to find 12 or 15' cables. VelociBacon fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Jun 26, 2022 |
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Jun 26, 2022 05:19
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VelociBacon posted:Thanks for the quick and informative responses. I'll source that extension cord. How long a cord could I get away with? Would be nice to be able to route it a little bit discreetly but it might come out closer to 10'. Also easier to find 12 or 15' cables. 15' of 14awg extension cord is going to be fine. Obviously not for permanent use but the romex house wiring could run in the walls for a surprise 15' ignoring just picking one room over is another 15' and you would never know. To be clear since I'm a terrible poster - DO NOT run your extension cord in the wall. H110Hawk fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Jun 26, 2022 |
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Jun 26, 2022 05:38
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Also fan speed has nothing to do with how much power they AC draws the compressor is doing all the heavy lifting. Theres really no way to have 2 window units on 1 15a circuit.
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Jun 26, 2022 09:31
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Yeah I knew that the compressor is doing nearly all the work but just trying to do what I can to drop current even a tiny bit until the extension cord arrives.
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Jun 26, 2022 09:43
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I have an extremely, extremely stupid question. I have a little robot i use for rubik cube practice. It uses a USB A to USB C cable to connect to the power adapter which plugs into the wall. The cable is 12 inches long and extremely inconvenient. Can I use any usb A to C cable of any length to replace the cord as long I use the same adapter? I'm sure there's a better place to ask this but you all seem wise in the way of electricity...
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Jun 26, 2022 12:50
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sephiRoth IRA posted:I have an extremely, extremely stupid question. I have a little robot i use for rubik cube practice. It uses a USB A to USB C cable to connect to the power adapter which plugs into the wall. The cable is 12 inches long and extremely inconvenient. The learning electronics thread in this very subforum might be a good place to talk about this sort of low-voltage stuff: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2734977 I don't know how much current your little robot uses, but a lot of USB-powered gadgets use way more current than the 500mA the original spec allows at 5V. This means that longer cables can cause the voltage to sag to lower values than the spec allows. It shouldn't hurt to try, though, if you have a cable laying around, and if you need to buy one I'd say you have a 90% shot of it just working. It's not going to be enough current to damage the cable and the undervoltage shouldn't damage the robot. If it doesn't just work it may run slowly or shut itself off and if it does that swapping back to the original short cable is always an option.
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Jun 26, 2022 14:38
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Stack Machine posted:The learning electronics thread in this very subforum might be a good place to talk about this sort of low-voltage stuff: Thank you! I don't need it to be like 2 meters - even 3 feet would be enough. I'll try it out today.
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Jun 26, 2022 14:45
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