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Thanlis posted:I am not angry and I don’t think you’re a bad person but I need to point out that I just typed a sincere paragraph of things I’d like and rather than engage with it or ignore it, you picked one thing, said it wasn’t happening, and skipped over the rest without making a constructive alternative suggestion. To be fair I absolutely read it as a strawman first because I don't think anyone was being as dismissive as you made it sound. But just ignored that and tried to get to the deeper meaning of what you wrote. But that ties into all of this, it's easy to misunderstand what someone writes and everyone needs to be better about accepting that.
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Jun 22, 2022 15:31
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Quantum of Phallus posted:I’m not open to any changes that result in less funny posts. I mean this sincerely.
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Jun 22, 2022 15:33
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Gumball Gumption posted:To be fair I absolutely read it as a strawman first because I don't think anyone was being as dismissive as you made it sound. But just ignored that and tried to get to the deeper meaning of what you wrote. But that ties into all of this, it's easy to misunderstand what someone writes and everyone needs to be better about accepting that. 100%. I forgot to add in my last post - I don't think this is necessarily endemic to PSP. It's very much a Twitter and greater internet thing too.
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Jun 22, 2022 15:33
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Dango Bango posted:These types of responses are what drove me away from posting in the AEW discussion threads. People - whether intentional or not - disregarding the point of the whole post to gotcha a single line.
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Jun 22, 2022 15:37
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Thanlis posted:poo poo, I would have liked people to engage with STAC’s posts instead of continually looping back to Lid. I don't have a horse in this race, I was always a lurker more than a poster (it's been a long time since we had ECW on Sci-Fi live threads!) and as well, life, has happened, i've found less time for wrestling in general. With that being said, Thanlis is right- this discussion/debate/whatever has entirely centred around Lid, which I can understand, but its frustrating as hell that they themselves are the focus. STAC has articulated what a lot of people seem to be feeling, but my perception has been that any discussion has been far more about dunking on Lid than anything else quote:I would like it if I could say “hey, I think this interaction I had with X sucked” without people getting snarky about it. I would like it if people who have been piled on in WWE and NJPW threads said “wait, you’re saying some AEW posters feel the same way I do about getting taunted?” instead of dismissing the idea that there are parallels. As I said before, I haven't really had time to be as up to date as I have in the past, so i'm keeping on top of things with the discussion threads- more WWE than AEW honestly. And there's something here, that a few people have said but because they weren't Lid, it hasn't really went anywhere. I've lost count of the amount of times over the last..few years, I guess, where someone has mentioned something positive in the WWE thread, only to get relentlessly dunked on for it, which triggers the same old argument of WWE Is Evil versus Evil is WWE It's exhausting, on an old, bad TNA thread level, but it's not any one person doing it deliberately! It's, as STAC Goat put quite well, a vibe/culture/atmosphere thing, and I could well believe that there are parallels of it in other threads. That being said quote:it is what it is. I don't have a solution here, I don't have a list of enemies to be denounced, I just wanted to give the perspective of someone who is both the fabled Casual and who's been on PSP for longer than it's been PSP
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Jun 22, 2022 15:38
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Dango Bango posted:These types of responses are what drove me away from posting in the AEW discussion threads. People - whether intentional or not - disregarding the point of the whole post to gotcha a single line. The flip side of this is that if you can't write a post without dropping in a one liner that comes off as so insulting or dismissive that people latch onto it then you've written a bad post and will get bad engagement from it. It's not always bad faith. Sometimes people just write a line that eclipses everything else they said.
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Jun 22, 2022 15:41
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Gumball Gumption posted:To be fair I absolutely read it as a strawman first because I don't think anyone was being as dismissive as you made it sound. But just ignored that and tried to get to the deeper meaning of what you wrote. But that ties into all of this, it's easy to misunderstand what someone writes and everyone needs to be better about accepting that. I am 100% capable of being a snarky rear end in a top hat and it crept in there. Also: this is SA. It’s never going to be hugs and sunshine and it shouldn’t be. There’s a whole thread for dunking on stupid social media opinions.
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Jun 22, 2022 15:44
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with all that being said I'd like to get down to it and propose some palpable alterations to the subforum. 1. new room 2. new view 3. new crew 4. new shoes 5. stay true 6. old friends 7. same attitude 8. Quantum of Phallus, stop doing it If I am missing anything or anyone feels like taking the baton and running with it then I encourage you
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Jun 22, 2022 15:50
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Gumball Gumption posted:The flip side of this is that if you can't write a post without dropping in a one liner that comes off as so insulting or dismissive that people latch onto it then you've written a bad post and will get bad engagement from it.
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Jun 22, 2022 15:51
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Cavauro posted:
Doing what Don’t appreciate being on this list
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Jun 22, 2022 15:52
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Dango Bango posted:These types of responses are what drove me away from posting in the AEW discussion threads. People - whether intentional or not - disregarding the point of the whole post to gotcha a single line. that's not intended as a gotcha, its a counter argument to a claim that is being made in that post because it comes off as a strawman which is kind of a trend i'm noticing with this whole thing a lot of things are being made up or said about what a person is doing or saying or had said or done in the past
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Jun 22, 2022 15:53
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Quantum of Phallus posted:Doing what Don't misunderstand. Well, (well, well,) this JOhnny is my life.
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Jun 22, 2022 15:55
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DM me your list of demands. Don’t want anyone here feeling intimidated
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Jun 22, 2022 15:56
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 Can someone who knows photoshop replace Eddie Kingston with Cavauro here thanks in advance
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Jun 22, 2022 15:57
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don't care about that stuff. what are the real lyrics when it says this johnny is my life?
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Jun 22, 2022 15:58
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Quantum of Phallus posted:I’m not open to any changes that result in less funny posts. I mean this sincerely. This is the beginning and end of it for me.
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Jun 22, 2022 15:59
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Quantum of Phallus posted:I’m not open to any changes that result in less funny posts. I mean this sincerely.
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Jun 22, 2022 16:01
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My Lovely Horse posted:Well let's go for one specific thing I'd like to see people do: when you do something that upsets people, stop or avoid doing it, instead of doubling down on it in the conviction that you're making the forum a funnier place. How is someone to know what's upsetting if the aggrieved party is unable or unwilling to let them know? The only tangible solution given to these problems has been like...less one liners and take things in good faith. Which again, the good faith courtesy is not a two way street, you said so yourself in a more recent post than the one quoted.
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Jun 22, 2022 16:01
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Cav has not DMd me their list of demands. Not sure how I’m supposed to act on their list.
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Jun 22, 2022 16:04
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What do the threads need to be more open to? Dialogue and discussions? That happens often. Criticisms of AEW that are founded in reality? That happens often. New people asking questions about the promotion? That happens, well, not often, but when it does, generally they are well-received and welcomed into the fold. People who have never posted before in the threads 'Kramering' in to mention that something is a failure based off a Bischoff talking point? No thank you, good faith or not.
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Jun 22, 2022 16:04
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When you codify "less one liners" as a rule you get something like "meet effort with effort". That and "always assume good faith" are both rules in D&D. I do not want D&D rules in the wrestling forum
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Jun 22, 2022 16:05
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No one liners. Also fun is banned. This is serious wrestling discussion about who should just be called racist apparently
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Jun 22, 2022 16:07
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yea ok posted:People who have never posted before in the threads 'Kramering' in to mention that something is a failure based off a Bischoff talking point? No thank you, good faith or not.
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Jun 22, 2022 16:09
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yea ok posted:How is someone to know what's upsetting if the aggrieved party is unable or unwilling to let them know?  I dunno man try and figure it out from context, you're probably gonna hit the mark more often than not. Using a prominent example from the whole discussion, if someone's post shows they loathe and fear Donald Trump's politics, they probably won't appreciate a Donald Trump avatar as the tongue-in-cheek joke on their overreacting that you might mean it as, and you don't need them to step up and tell you to know.
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Jun 22, 2022 16:10
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STONE COLD 64 posted:ive never seen this happen Every once in a while I Kramer into a wrestling thread to catcall Randy Orton or post "Neinnunb sleeps in the Hall of Men." It's real
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Jun 22, 2022 16:12
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My Lovely Horse posted:That's the bit I specifically said was gonna be hard and not work 100% in the rest of the post
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Jun 22, 2022 16:13
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My Lovely Horse posted:Using a prominent example from the whole discussion, if someone's post shows they loathe and fear Donald Trump's politics, they probably won't appreciate a Donald Trump avatar as the tongue-in-cheek joke on their overreacting that you might mean it as, and you don't need them to step up and tell you to know. I am once again asking you to stop insinuating anyone on Lid’s kill list bought the avatar.
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Jun 22, 2022 16:16
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STONE COLD 64 posted:ive never seen this happen I have. My Lovely Horse posted:I dunno man try and figure it out from context, you're probably gonna hit the mark more often than not. Using a prominent example from the whole discussion, if someone's post shows they loathe and fear Donald Trump's politics, they probably won't appreciate a Donald Trump avatar as the tongue-in-cheek joke on their overreacting that you might mean it as, and you don't need them to step up and tell you to know. I think every single person that's posted in this thread agrees that buying that avatar is a bogus move. Maybe they don't, but if they don't I'd rather not know about it. In the context of actually posting, though, I'm sure you can understand that it's much more difficult to know what might upset someone, rather than an obvious extreme example such as that. I pretty much go out of my way to be neutral or positive (unless I'm called a racist or called out explicitly for stuff I have nothing to do with -- Please don't hold that against me  ) but I'm just trying to ask more direct questions rather than have this kind of circular posting with nothing tangible being offered. Thank you for your time.
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Jun 22, 2022 16:17
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Too many lists to keep track of. The kill list. The racism list. Cav’s demands. The AEW thread seems really good at the moment. Lots of nice posting.
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Jun 22, 2022 16:17
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I’ve only ever bought one person an avatar, and that was last night for a certain cry baby we all know
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Jun 22, 2022 16:17
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I kind of feel like the concept of "Kramering in" is the heart of the issue? Like I get it. If someone you don't recognize posts something you don't like you're less likely to give the benefit of the doubt or good faith trust than to someone you know. But that's kind of the "clubhouse" thing, isn't it? The AEW thread has regulars who can kind of post whatever they want. If they insult someone or say something offensive or poo poo up a conversation its cool because they're people we know and its their gimmick or they're having fun or whatever. But isn't that inherently inhospitable and the very "walking on eggshells"/"unwelcoming" thing a bunch of people have brought up? It becomes "this is our home and you have to become accepted before you can say what you wanna say." Or at least it can feel like that. And I say that as someone who has been posting in this forum for probably a decade but very much does not feel like a welcome part of this community. And maybe that's just my issue but when people are actively saying things like "Kramering in" it does feel like it reinforces this idea that if I say something that bothers someone its fair game for them to treat me like someone who barged in. Also for the record, as best as I can tell no one has suggested "banning one liners" except for the people who would be upset about banning one liners. The common sentiment has seemed to be "don't be an rear end in a top hat".
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Jun 22, 2022 16:19
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STONE COLD 64 posted:ive never seen this happen There was definitely someone who came into the thread a month or two ago with some Bischoff talking points about how AEW wasn't growing, was both laughed at and calmly explained how he was wrong and kept repeating AEW isn't growing.
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Jun 22, 2022 16:20
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An Taoiseach posted:I don't have a horse in this race, I was always a lurker more than a poster (it's been a long time since we had ECW on Sci-Fi live threads!) and as well, life, has happened, i've found less time for wrestling in general. as a long time lurker myself it seems pretty clear to me that there's a focus on lid because the way lid has acted through this is largely emblematic of many of the posters at the heart of this discussion lots of those talking about how they're walking on eggshells are the same ones who respond to jokes or normal disagreement with random hostility or by bringing up months old slights they don't even clearly remember there's a severe lack of introspection from people talking about how other people need to be more reflective on how rude they are, and it's impossible to imagine any sort of actionable changes coming out of this that wouldn't end up actually making it feel far less welcoming and fun here
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Jun 22, 2022 16:21
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STAC Goat posted:I kind of feel like the concept of "Kramering in" is the heart of the issue? If someone comes in that’s never posted before and goes drat AEW ratings were trash I guess AEW is in the mud. People are supposed to what? Politely educate them?
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Jun 22, 2022 16:21
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Big Coffin Hunter posted:No one liners. Also fun is banned. This is serious wrestling discussion about who should just be called racist apparently finally the mma group will reign supreme
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Jun 22, 2022 16:22
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MassRafTer posted:There was definitely someone who came into the thread a month or two ago with some Bischoff talking points about how AEW wasn't growing, was both laughed at and calmly explained how he was wrong and kept repeating AEW isn't growing.
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Jun 22, 2022 16:23
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Happiness posted:as a long time lurker myself it seems pretty clear to me that there's a focus on lid because the way lid has acted through this is largely emblematic of many of the posters at the heart of this discussion I would say that I agree with this assessment.
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Jun 22, 2022 16:24
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Happiness posted:as a long time lurker myself it seems pretty clear to me that there's a focus on lid because the way lid has acted through this is largely emblematic of many of the posters at the heart of this discussion You should post more because you nailed it with this one.
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Jun 22, 2022 16:25
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Happiness posted:as a long time lurker myself it seems pretty clear to me that there's a focus on lid because the way lid has acted through this is largely emblematic of many of the posters at the heart of this discussion This is it
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Jun 22, 2022 16:26
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The_Rob posted:If someone comes in that’s never posted before and goes drat AEW ratings were trash I guess AEW is in the mud. People are supposed to what? Politely educate them? I mean they can be ignored, probably? Like unless they're really being belligerent or harassing or occupying things? But those are all issues themselves that have nothing to do with whether you recognize the poster, aren't they? To some extent I think that the issue is in fact that people fall over themselves to dunk on that person. And maybe that person was a troll, or maybe they were misinformed, or maybe they made a bad joke. Who knows? But again, I feel like the basic idea being expressed is that there's an "in" and that person came from "out." And to a certain extent that inevitable. People who have posted together for years and enjoy each other's posts and company will have a familiarity. But also groups can tend to get too insular and cliquish over time without ever really realizing it or doing it deliberately.
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Jun 22, 2022 16:27
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