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Kammat posted:Pelosi giving a statement now, with one bit along the lines of "Better vote Dem in November so we can fix this" Here's the official statement, for those interested. https://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/62422-1 quote:Washington, D.C. – Speaker Nancy Pelosi issued this statement after a Republican-appointed Supreme Court majority voted to overturn Roe v. Wade: Bolding mine. Have the Dems done anything to protect women's rights? All I can recall them doing is passing an infrastructure bill after arguing amongst themselves (Manchin). These statements have had me rolling my eyes since I honestly don't believe those in power legitimately don't actually want to do anything to help us. There always seem to be so many avenues available to the GOP and a GOP president to strip rights and make life worse for all but a select few, but Dems are stonewalled to do anything to reverse this, or even provide basic aid to all but the elites, and the MIC. And of course, as was pointed out, you can't let an opportunity to campaign go to waste.
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Jun 24, 2022 16:33
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Rigel posted:"if you can" is obviously implied. It is still true. Is it true from a D&D politics perspective? If your goal is giving yourself the best chances it's absolutely true. But part of D&D is zooming out and looking at societal effects and political effects and is the sympathetic upper class fleeing a state a good thing for the future class struggles and fights that will take place in that state? I don't know. I don't think so though I'm not going to tell anyone to not flee. Just that it's way more complicated. And I get the semantics that loam was explicitly saying get out for yourself. I'm just wondering off of that if it's a good thing overall. A good discussion too is what you can do once you are out. The work isn't over once you secure your own safety. Gumball Gumption fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Jun 24, 2022 |
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Jun 24, 2022 16:34
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My concern is that a lot of the blue states are also plentiful with reds, and many of the blues in those states aren't particularly useful anyway. Like what blue state do you move to, that has the highest likelihood of preserving those rights?
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Jun 24, 2022 16:35
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:honestly the best thing you can do for yourself if you live in a red state is loving leave. Love to, wanna bankroll that for me?
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Jun 24, 2022 16:35
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The subject aside, Roe was just a terribly written opinion. “We, uh, really want this. Look at this case law from other countries! Anyway, we know our logic is dogshit so you can’t apply it to any other case.”
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Jun 24, 2022 16:35
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Just leave the state you live in won't work because you better believe that the republicans are going to pass a federal ban on abortion the second they have the chance.
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Jun 24, 2022 16:36
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Velocity Raptor posted:Here's the official statement, for those interested. https://www.reuters.com/article/obama-abortion/obama-says-abortion-rights-law-not-a-top-priority-idUKN2946642020090430 quote:“I believe that women should have the right to choose,” Obama told a news conference marking his first 100 days in office. “But I think that the most important thing we can do to tamp down some of the anger surrounding this issue is to focus on those areas that we can agree on.” They thought it was more important to not be divisive than it was to codify abortion rights. The Democrats literally believe that not angering Republicans is more important than protecting women's rights to control their own bodies So no, they haven't done much except lean on Roe and pretend everything was fine
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Jun 24, 2022 16:37
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Gumball Gumption posted:Is it true from a D&D politics perspective? If your goal is giving yourself the best chances it's absolutely true. But part of D&D is zooming out and looking at societal effects and political effects and is the sympathetic upper class fleeing a state a good thing for the future class struggles and fights that will take place in that state? I don't know. I don't think so though I'm not going to tell anyone to not flee. Just that it's way more complicated. If someone is trying to flee a red state I'm not going to say a single word encouraging them to stay and suffer. The most I'd do is suggest they consider moving to a purple state if they can. CO or NV instead of CA. PA or NC instead of NY.
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Jun 24, 2022 16:37
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Ah ok I am learning that in fact folks shouldn’t take care of their selves, what a weird reaction to “take care of yourself if you can”
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Jun 24, 2022 16:38
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Ornery and Hornery posted:My concern is that a lot of the blue states are also plentiful with reds, and many of the blues in those states aren't particularly useful anyway. New York and California, mostly. A blue person moving to a state also makes it (marginally) more blue so it's partly a self-fulfilling prophecy. No state is 100% blue but those two and some others have consistently elected pro-abortion governments for a very long time If there's federal movement on a full national ban then all bets are off but if you want to do something for your family today those are your options
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Jun 24, 2022 16:38
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TGLT posted:The Supreme Court had no power to gut the VRA the way they did but they did it anyways. Laws are not magic binding geases, they're just some loving words that they pretty clearly do not give a poo poo about. Ok? My point was that Thomas can leave Loving off his list of "substantive due process cases I want to overturn" in part because Loving doesn't rely on substantive due process the way Roe, Obergefell, and Griswold do.
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Jun 24, 2022 16:40
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Cimber posted:I wonder though if there is a silver lining. Abortion was pretty much the thing that held a lot of the various conservative groups together. With that gone are we now going to see the high water mark of modern American Conservatism? Will the big tent republicans start fracturing? There's always something worse. Their hatred knows no boundaries. Today it's abortion, tomorrow it will be contraceptives, then after that gay marriage, and then interracial marriage, and further down the hate filled rabbit hole they will go.
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Jun 24, 2022 16:41
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Aegis posted:Ok? Also because it applies to him personally.
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Jun 24, 2022 16:42
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Fighting Trousers posted:Love to, wanna bankroll that for me? I especially love people leaving the country, I'm literally a citizen of France and I couldn't just move.
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Jun 24, 2022 16:43
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Lemming posted:https://www.reuters.com/article/obama-abortion/obama-says-abortion-rights-law-not-a-top-priority-idUKN2946642020090430 There are also many democrats who are anti-abortion. Bob Casey was a big part of forwarding g the now-redundant strategy of chipping away at people’s rights with increasingly narrow restrictions. Democrats in leadership are pretty fine with losing abortion because the party can weather that in some form. They don’t want to lose all the people who would dump them if they went in on really trying to protect anyone’s rights.
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Jun 24, 2022 16:46
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Aegis posted:Ok? I'm saying the arguably poo poo is nonsense. Loving v Virginia came nearly a century after the 14th Amendment. Thomas isn't including it in his list because it might personally affect him, but this is absolutely a green light to reactionaries to give it a shot. We certainly have lived in a country where the 14th Amendment existed and there was no protected right to interracial marriage before. edit: Like Thomas doesn't have to include it in his list to make it clear that every right that rests on the 14th amendment is up for grabs. TGLT fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Jun 24, 2022 |
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Jun 24, 2022 16:47
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The problem with moving to one of the blue states where you don't have to worry about these rulings (like here in MA) is it costs a loving arm and a leg to live in most of them.
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Jun 24, 2022 16:47
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I especially love people leaving the country, I'm literally a citizen of France and I couldn't just move. marry me senpai note: i also dont have money to move to france but we can try together 
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Jun 24, 2022 16:50
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I AM GRANDO posted:There are also many democrats who are anti-abortion. Bob Casey was a big part of forwarding g the now-redundant strategy of chipping away at people’s rights with increasingly narrow restrictions. Democrats in leadership are pretty fine with losing abortion because the party can weather that in some form. They don’t want to lose all the people who would dump them if they went in on really trying to protect anyone’s rights. Yeah. It makes all the "protect abortion by giving Democrats all your money" poo poo ring really loving hollow
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Jun 24, 2022 16:52
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Groovelord Neato posted:The problem with moving to one of the blue states where you don't have to worry about these rulings (like here in MA) is it costs a loving arm and a leg to live in most of them. So uh, move while you can. You’ll only regret it as the purple states become red and the red states become hellworlds. Automata 10 Pack fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Jun 24, 2022 |
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Jun 24, 2022 16:53
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Groovelord Neato posted:The problem with moving to one of the blue states where you don't have to worry about these rulings (like here in MA) is it costs a loving arm and a leg to live in most of them. It also doesn't help the problem of the senate being equal representation by state instead of being based on where people live. Velocity Raptor fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Jun 24, 2022 |
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Jun 24, 2022 16:54
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So what's people's guesses on what the GOP's messaging about literally anything the Democrats do now, after spending the past two months screaming about ignoring the message and shooting the messenger? "Clearly this is just the Democrats playing politics, after all, they had two whole months warning that this was coming, and we would have gladly enshrined Roe v Wade into federal law if they asked"?
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Jun 24, 2022 16:57
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Randalor posted:So what's people's guesses on what the GOP's messaging about literally anything the Democrats do now, after spending the past two months screaming about ignoring the message and shooting the messenger? Victory laps and moving on to attacking LGBTQ even more, as well as targeting birth control
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Jun 24, 2022 16:58
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Randalor posted:So what's people's guesses on what the GOP's messaging about literally anything the Democrats do now, after spending the past two months screaming about ignoring the message and shooting the messenger? People are fleeing to illegal 'sanctuary cities' in blue states to murder children. We need to enshrine the rights of the unborn at the federal level and we need 51 senators to do it.
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Jun 24, 2022 17:03
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Randalor posted:So what's people's guesses on what the GOP's messaging about literally anything the Democrats do now, after spending the past two months screaming about ignoring the message and shooting the messenger? At this point, the best move the GOP can make is to step into the shadows for a bit. Not to hide from what they accomplished, but not to draw attention to themselves. When the SC decision was leaked, anyone who was concerned or affected by the decision would have been paying attention to the Dems, who have continually positioned themselves as the defenders of people's right and the bulwark against the evil GOP. Except they didn't do anything to protect against this, or even attempt to do anything. And as was pointed out earlier in the thread, they recently supported an anti-abortion candidate. The people who were watching have only seen that the Dems were lying to them, or at least didn't care. So the best thing the GOP can do is stay quiet, lest they risk people turning their anger from the ineffective self-proclaimed protectors to those actually making the bad things happen.
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Jun 24, 2022 17:04
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I AM GRANDO posted:Democrats in leadership are pretty fine with losing abortion because the party can weather that in some form. Is this actually true?
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Jun 24, 2022 17:08
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:anyone that isn't for court expansion or getting rid of it entirely at this point can get hosed Say Joe Biden announces today that he is taking the completely constitutional, legal, and not-unprecedented step of nominating three additional SCOTUS justices. Chuck Schumer schedules confirmation hearings beginning tomorrow. The filibuster does not apply to judicial confirmations, all Republicans and Kyrsten Sinema vote against all three, confirmations fail 49-51. Biden gets called a dictator with no respect for the rule of law or America or its divinely-appointed judiciary, Democrats lose both houses of Congress in 2022 and the presidency in 2024 (this will happen anyway). In 2025, President DeSantis nominates Donald Trump, Darth Vader, and that guy who sentenced Brock Turner to SCOTUS, they are immediately confirmed along party lines.
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Jun 24, 2022 17:08
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 Do not direct your frustration and anger at Roe being overturned toward other posters. This is not helpful, not interesting discussion, gums up threads, and will catch you probations for posting about posters / hostility.No person here bears significant responsibility and going after each other is just going to result in slapfights which contribute nothing of interest to threads. That's my ruling on the field for now to try and keep things civil within the thread, I know people are going to want to vent. Koos Group may have further comments.
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Jun 24, 2022 17:08
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Pollyanna posted:Is this actually true? Even if it's not, Democrats probably believe it. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 24, 2022 17:09
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Velocity Raptor posted:The people who were watching have only seen that the Dems were lying to them, or at least didn't care. So the best thing the GOP can do is stay quiet, lest they risk people turning their anger from the ineffective self-proclaimed protectors to those actually making the bad things happen. Right, but considering this is the party that has MTG, Boebert and Cruz and all three seem to be incapable of shutting up... I'm guessing MTG is probably going to try to literally laugh in Democrates faces.
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Jun 24, 2022 17:09
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Velocity Raptor posted:Here's the official statement, for those interested. on a state level, very much yes. federal, they have tried but not as much as they could because big tent bullshit and just GOP fuckery. https://twitter.com/lxeagle17/status/1540359959325470720 this seems a little hopeful for the senate somewhat. it will hurt mastriano at least. Velocity Raptor posted:At this point, the best move the GOP can make is to step into the shadows for a bit. Not to hide from what they accomplished, but not to draw attention to themselves. When the SC decision was leaked, anyone who was concerned or affected by the decision would have been paying attention to the Dems, who have continually positioned themselves as the defenders of people's right and the bulwark against the evil GOP. Except they didn't do anything to protect against this, or even attempt to do anything. And as was pointed out earlier in the thread, they recently supported an anti-abortion candidate. they won't move into the shadows at all though, they will yell and scream and brag and a bunch will make points about wanting to kill marrage equality or griswold or etc. they will double down because they caught the car.
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Jun 24, 2022 17:10
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This Is the Zodiac posted:How would this even work though? Congress has to pass a law first to expand the court, its been done before. The number is currently 9 in the law. This current 50-50 congress won't do that, and Biden can't just nominate a 10th justice on his own.
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Jun 24, 2022 17:11
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Groovelord Neato posted:The problem with moving to one of the blue states where you don't have to worry about these rulings (like here in MA) is it costs a loving arm and a leg to live in most of them. Another problem is that if all the blue voters move to the bluest states, the rest of the states get redder, turning the Senate redder and giving the conservatives more power on the national stage.
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Jun 24, 2022 17:11
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This Is the Zodiac posted:How would this even work though? This is the expected outcome either way so we need to try something. Democracy can't be "if enough white supremacists vote to unperson you it's legal and they can do it" and arguments that act as if our hands are completely tied when fascists do that end up just reinforcing that yeah, you can absolutely legally strip rights from people and that's how the system is supposed to work.
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Jun 24, 2022 17:13
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Main Paineframe posted:Another problem is that if all the blue voters move to the bluest states, the rest of the states get redder, turning the Senate redder and giving the conservatives more power on the national stage.
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Jun 24, 2022 17:15
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Gumball Gumption posted:This is the expected outcome either way so we need to try something. Maybe you shouldn't try the thing where you just said the expected outcome is bad
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Jun 24, 2022 17:15
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Main Paineframe posted:Another problem is that if all the blue voters move to the bluest states, the rest of the states get redder, turning the Senate redder and giving the conservatives more power on the national stage. This will happen anyways as the Republicans are dismantling voting rights in the red states.
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Jun 24, 2022 17:15
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This Is the Zodiac posted:How would this even work though? The Republicans only haven't increased the number of justices because they didn't need to. They have 2/3 majority, they can do anything they want. They will have a majority forever unless the Democrats actively do something to change that. Yes, if the Democrats actually do something, the Republicans will fight back at least that hard. That is not a reason not to fight in the first place, because if Democrats don't, then we end up in the current state, where Republicans can do whatever they want, win minority elections, and still have control of the government most of the time and the Supreme Court forever. The Democratic strategy of sitting there with their thumbs up their asses has already failed in every possible way there is to fail.
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Jun 24, 2022 17:17
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This Is the Zodiac posted:Blue voters should be moving to red areas of blue states, if anything. If we are moving around population like pawns on a game board then the play is to move to purple states
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Jun 24, 2022 17:17
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Fart Amplifier posted:Maybe you shouldn't try the thing where you just said the expected outcome is bad My point is that we've been operating for a while as if right wing take over is inevitable yet also use it as a reason to not do things. It can't be both.
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Jun 24, 2022 17:18
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