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CWI (now Militant Left Ireland) wanted the 32 counties and also to withdraw from the EU for reasons related to neoliberal corruption, that's just standard Lexit/Trotskyism. A subsection of them also supported Scottish and Welsh independence, mostly because it annoys unionists. But to then go a step further into "and then all of them form some kind of free trade union of Great Britain and Ireland is where it gets bizarre. I suppose the natural tendency of trots to splinter means you eventually get a Committee for a Workers' International (Saxe-Coburgist Gothaist) faction of one guy. e: 33 + 45 = 78, the three speeds that you got records at.
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Jun 27, 2022 13:09
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Rustybear posted:perhaps the younger men, who are now older men, did indeed emigrate? Callaghan's quote in context does go: when I am shaving in the morning I say to myself that if I were a young man, I would emigrate. By the time I am sitting down to breakfast I ask myself: where would I go? (in the 1970s the period when white Commonwealth citizens had basically unrestricted freedom of movement across the white Commonwealth was still in living memory, and the UK was now having to contend with domestic unemployment without an option to export it) I'm only too aware that ukpol finds it hard to care about the international law stuff; it's part of the post-imperial hangover, even on the left. It's just taken as given that the UK doesn't need to care.
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Jun 27, 2022 13:16
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Russia has a similar attitude that will probably persist until half of it is the PRC's car park.
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Jun 27, 2022 13:18
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Is CANZUK still a thing in terms of trying to recreate the white commonwealth on the down low or did they give up on it? They seem to have all gone very quiet since the oven ready Brexit deal.
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Jun 27, 2022 13:34
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Guavanaut posted:Is CANZUK still a thing in terms of trying to recreate the white commonwealth on the down low or did they give up on it? They seem to have all gone very quiet since the oven ready Brexit deal. cansuk more like
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Jun 27, 2022 13:35
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ronya posted:I'm only too aware that ukpol finds it hard to care about the international law stuff; it's part of the post-imperial hangover, even on the left. It's just taken as given that the UK doesn't need to care. i'm sorry i don't buy this at all: the 'rules-based international order' is one of the most pervasive modern expressions of imperialism and questioning whether these 'rules' have a moral status is not a product of imperial hangover. what we are talking about are trade deals and acting as though they are anything else only muddies the water; countries can and do renege on a deal when it is to their advantage, very frequently for major powers and infrequently for smaller powers for obvious reasons. the idea that would somehow resemble putin's russia over this is laughable; not least because we've already been there done that on the whole 'unprovoked war of aggression that kills millions' thing Rustybear fucked around with this message at 14:03 on Jun 27, 2022 |
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Jun 27, 2022 14:01
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Guavanaut posted:Is CANZUK still a thing in terms of trying to recreate the white commonwealth on the down low or did they give up on it? They seem to have all gone very quiet since the oven ready Brexit deal. It's still A Thing in that it has an official campaign behind it (and various sub groups like Conservatives For CANZUK), and the basic principle crops up in things like the AUKUS pact and people in the DfIT trying to hype everyone up about our trade deals with New Zealand, but it has quietened down since the immediate post-Brexit days. It's still very popular with a certain sort of Brexiter though. I came across one on twitter a couple of days ago saying "why can't we have free travel in the Commonwealth like we used to have for Europe?" and I touched the poop by asking if a free travel area for 2.6 billion people, most of whom are from the global south, was an improvement over EU freedom of movement in their eyes. "No, just the Commonwealth realms like Canada, Australia and New Zealand. They're closer to us culturally." Yeeeesssss...
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Jun 27, 2022 14:05
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Didn't Oz turn their most up at the Tories free movement proposal because they don't want all our oldies deciding to retire there?
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Jun 27, 2022 14:29
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 "get in the sea" - the telegraph
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Jun 27, 2022 14:32
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BalloonFish posted:It's still A Thing in that it has an official campaign behind it (and various sub groups like Conservatives For CANZUK), and the basic principle crops up in things like the AUKUS pact and people in the DfIT trying to hype everyone up about our trade deals with New Zealand, but it has quietened down since the immediate post-Brexit days. Lol at poor SA trying and failing to be white and racist enough to be included in the "good" countries. Wonder why that gigantic English-speaking, tea-drinking, cricket-loving, curry-inventing country is considered so culturally different tho. Mysterious.
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Jun 27, 2022 14:32
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:
Petition to add this as the main picture on the Wikipedia article about Betteridge's Law
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Jun 27, 2022 14:33
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Pablo Bluth posted:Didn't Oz turn their most up at the Tories free movement proposal because they don't want all our oldies deciding to retire there? Probably. Like the corollary of our attempts to get a trade deal with India on equal terms for the first time in about 400 years:  "Can we have trade deal so we can sell you innovative jams, famous cheeses and exciting missiles and bombs?"India "Sure, can we have extended visa rights for more of our students to live, study and work in your country?" ".....No. That's so unfair."Failed Imagineer posted:Wonder why that gigantic English-speaking, tea-drinking, cricket-loving, curry-inventing country is considered so culturally different tho. Mysterious. Yeah, I can't think what might be colouring these people's opinions of places which probably have the biggest Anglo cultural hangovers of all  They have previous, though : free travel and settlement throughout the Empire/Commonwealth was not only the norm but an inalienable right and a beacon of liberty for 250 years when it was British people going abroad...as soon as all the British subjects started using their rights and liberties to move to the metropole it was all terrible and Rivers of Blood (please ignore literal rivers of blood caused when the population movement was the other way round). BalloonFish fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Jun 27, 2022 |
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Jun 27, 2022 14:36
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Failed Imagineer posted:Lol at poor SA trying and failing to be white and racist enough to be included in the "good" countries. Too many Dutch speakers obviously
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Jun 27, 2022 14:40
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Failed Imagineer posted:Lol at poor SA trying and failing to be white and racist enough to be included in the "good" countries.  way to say "add South Africa and I'll sign" and get responses about how it's not a good country any more and it's being mismanaged. Guess we know what they consider 'proper management'.Failed Imagineer posted:Wonder why that gigantic English-speaking, tea-drinking, cricket-loving, curry-inventing country is considered so culturally different tho. Mysterious. There's a certain type of high tory who's fine with the idea of 'the good Indian' (traditional chaiwalas who are also racist but know their place and other such nonsense) but they know the swivel eyed base hates immigration on base principle and they can't stand the idea that India is negotiating from a pedestal and thinks they should bring back the princely states so they can play them off against one another.
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Jun 27, 2022 14:42
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:
They say Britain but Scotland is actually rising while it's the South East of England that's sinking.
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Jun 27, 2022 14:48
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keep punching joe posted:They say Britain but Scotland is actually rising while it's the South East of England that's sinking. Proof that there is a god
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Jun 27, 2022 14:57
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Rustybear posted:i'm sorry i don't buy this at all: the 'rules-based international order' is one of the most pervasive modern expressions of imperialism and questioning whether these 'rules' have a moral status is not a product of imperial hangover. The imperial hangover is the assumption that the UK is in a position to unilaterally write those rules as shaped mainly by political battles in the imperial metropole, rather than principally constrained by the governments and investors of countries it is negotiating with e.g., on the matter of steel, 1) the UK alone is in absolutely no position to persuade China circa 2022 to reshape its steel subsidies via controls on its exports to the UK, and 2) the UK's own national interest in the matter should consider that steel plants in Britain today are frequently not British-owned, but Spanish (Celsa), Indian (Tata), or Chinese (Jingye). Particularly post-Brexit, the UK's own interest here should be to tactically identify gaps in international production chains that can be rapidly filled and cheaply exited, accept that its own place in those chains is likely to be dispensable as soon as foreign governments feel that they have domestic or prestige/strategic interests in those sectors, and understand that foreign governments will likewise reasonably want assurances to protect their foreign direct investments in the UK.
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Jun 27, 2022 15:14
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BalloonFish posted:(please ignore literal rivers of blood caused when the population movement was the other way round).
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Jun 27, 2022 15:28
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ronya posted:The imperial hangover is the assumption that the UK is in a position to unilaterally write those rules as shaped mainly by political battles in the imperial metropole, rather than principally constrained by the governments and investors of countries it is negotiating with right but that's a distinction of what we can do not what we should do, which admittedly is splitting a finer hair than i originally intended in posting but here we are if boris johnson, genius inventor can crack it then so be it. i will not be betting on it personally. ronya posted:e.g., on the matter of steel, 1) the UK alone is in absolutely no position to persuade China circa 2022 to reshape its steel subsidies via controls on its exports to the UK, and 2) the UK's own national interest in the matter should consider that steel plants in Britain today are frequently not British-owned, but Spanish (Celsa), Indian (Tata), or Chinese (Jingye). Particularly post-Brexit, the UK's own interest here should be to tactically identify gaps in international production chains that can be rapidly filled and cheaply exited, accept that its own place in those chains is likely to be dispensable as soon as foreign governments feel that they have domestic or prestige/strategic interests in those sectors, and understand that foreign governments will likewise reasonably want assurances to protect their foreign direct investments in the UK. perhaps i was confused but i thought the issue was more around increasing subsidies in steel production in the uk to match what you see, for example, in germany. not sure why Tata etc would object to this provided they were in receipt of those subsidies. i don't think anyone is seriously considering trying to reshape chinese industrial policy (at least not out loud), feels like you've invented some imperial delusions there and then dismissed them! Post-brexit Britain has plenty of interests that may be well served by changing our trade deals. The point was that the status as international law does not impart a significance beyond the consequences that exist anyway from stopping and starting trade. Unreliability is a factor to consider re foreign direct investment but it's far from clear to me that it's not both already factored in (is brexit really news to anyone?) or enough to upset the apple cart. Rustybear fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Jun 27, 2022 |
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Jun 27, 2022 15:30
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:
Waiting for the inevitable Wind Waker -esque flooding of the UK where only the mountains and tallest hills become little islands we all live on. I live near Cambridge and would welcome the flood with open arms.
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Jun 27, 2022 15:46
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Guavanaut posted:"In this country in 15 or 20 years' time the black man will have the whip hand over the white man" is the most telling one in terms of 'the case of this the other way around that actually happened was fine tho'. Also a classic example of the "I'm scared they'll treat us the way we treated them" and/or "I can't conceive of a majority group not instinctively being poo poo to the minority group" projections
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Jun 27, 2022 15:47
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:
has there ever been a more powerful case of betteridge's law? Rustybear fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Jun 27, 2022 |
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Jun 27, 2022 15:55
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Guavanaut posted:But to then go a step further into "and then all of them form some kind of free trade union of Great Britain and Ireland is where it gets bizarre. Reminds me of the running joke on Trashfuture about crypto guys accidentally reinventing central banking, or libertarian tech guys reinventing central government.
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Jun 27, 2022 16:03
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Bobby Deluxe posted:What's really funny is the 'we need to break away from these opressive trade agreements' guys who then instantly have to sign a bunch of even more opressive trade agreements when they find out what actually happens in a free trade environment. I like all the rideshare startups that keep inventing the bus.
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Jun 27, 2022 16:06
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Bobby Deluxe posted:What's really funny is the 'we need to break away from these opressive trade agreements' guys who then instantly have to sign a bunch of even more opressive trade agreements when they find out what actually happens in a free trade environment. we're stuck forever rediscovering that trade conducted on vaguely bilateral terms just isn't as profitable as that conducted with the barrel of a gun(boat)
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Jun 27, 2022 17:19
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Rustybear posted:has there ever been a more powerful case of betteridge's law? I had to fix your post
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Jun 27, 2022 17:52
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https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/1541475082752630786Nenonen posted:I had to fix your post. Same. fuctifino fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Jun 27, 2022 |
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Jun 27, 2022 18:51
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DeadButDelicious posted:Waiting for the inevitable Wind Waker -esque flooding of the UK where only the mountains and tallest hills become little islands we all live on. Can't wait for Poole to live up to its name
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Jun 27, 2022 18:56
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fuctifino posted:Same?
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Jun 27, 2022 19:12
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That's it, I'm out. Who wants to buy my pile of shame?: As well as Steve Baker, Michael Gove is also a known Warhammer 40K player in Westminster. Apparently there's quite a few of them in the government.
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Jun 27, 2022 19:20
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I would have thought even she was familiar in passing with the idea that self-professed patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel, it being more famous a Britishism than even the racist poems that the other Johnson enjoys.notaspy posted:Michael Gove is also a known Warhammer
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Jun 27, 2022 19:27
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That ginger Scottish Greens MSP has a full collection of 40k novels, so he's definitely painted a miniature in his lifetime.
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Jun 27, 2022 19:30
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keep punching joe posted:That ginger Scottish Greens MSP has a full collection of 40k novels, so he's definitely painted a miniature in his lifetime. It feels very unfair to lump Ross Greer, who seems like a good egg, in with Gove and Baker. That said, and I'm speaking entirely from ignorance here so feel free to pile on, aren't Warhammer novels in the ballpark of star wars novels in terms of being totally poo poo and slightly shameful to be on display as a grown adult?
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Jun 27, 2022 19:44
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i mean you probably wouldn't want to show your copies to someone you hoped to have sex with, unless you'd just finished your shift at parliament and it was to lure them into the van
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Jun 27, 2022 19:57
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notaspy posted:As well as Steve Baker, Michael Gove is also a known Warhammer 40K player in Westminster. Apparently there's quite a few of them in the government.
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Jun 27, 2022 20:42
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Jun 27, 2022 20:43
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DeadButDelicious posted:Waiting for the inevitable Wind Waker -esque flooding of the UK where only the mountains and tallest hills become little islands we all live on. Think I've encountered a bug? I'm trying to fish up treasure using my boat's grapple-crane but all I'm picking up are Sex Arses.
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Jun 27, 2022 21:19
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Niric posted:That said, and I'm speaking entirely from ignorance here so feel free to pile on, aren't Warhammer novels in the ballpark of star wars novels in terms of being totally poo poo and slightly shameful to be on display as a grown adult? I believe Henry Cavill is a fan so if worst comes to the worst, simply try to act and look like him and you should get away with it.
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Jun 27, 2022 21:25
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Most Black Library books are trash, but I feel like finding out an MP is into warhammer is pretty much like finding out they're into model trains or whatever, it's a British nerd institution at this point.
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Jun 27, 2022 21:40
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Niric posted:It feels very unfair to lump Ross Greer, who seems like a good egg, in with Gove and Baker. Being ashamed of enjoying a little garbage now & again is a silly thing for a grown adult to be. Now if trash is all you consume...
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Jun 27, 2022 21:42
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