politically-loaded maps: sputtering flemishly

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > politically-loaded maps: sputtering flemishly

Edgar Allen Ho: Apr 3, 2017; by sebmojo

The USSR of 1939 was an axis power no matter how desperately self-proclaimed marxist-leninists in 2022 want it to be the bestest coolest place ever, betrayed by the west, forced to enable and fuel Hitler, sorry. Three sovereign nations conquered and forcibly russified, an attempt on Finland, the conquest and russificiation of eastern Poland and Moldova, eh, pretty axisy there Stalin.

Speaking of forcible russification- I get that The Stans are a black hole of "uh, wars, taliban, idk man" to the western normie but I'm shocked no one in this thread has mentioned Kazuzturktajkyrgyzstan down below Russia.

Fun fact: Kazakhstan is in the process of swapping the kazakh language to the latin alphabet as a response to being genocided into using cyrillic. In 2025 all kazakh kindergarteners will learn their letters in latin. Latin kazakh already exists, tbh, so it's more of a middle finger to Russia considering Kazakhstan Russia IV.

# ? Jun 27, 2022 00:51

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 22:22

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Kazuzturktajkyrgyzstan

I mentally filed it along with 'big Sudan and big Ethiopia' and 'wtf is Malaysia' as bad western borders.

# ? Jun 27, 2022 01:01

WAR CRIME GIGOLO: Oct 3, 2012; The Hague
tryna get me
for these glutes

The Soviets: spain is a fascist axis power

Also the soviets: Germany is a great partner in the west and ending the relationship would be tragic.

# ? Jun 27, 2022 02:56

BonHair: Apr 28, 2007

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

The USSR of 1939 was an axis power no matter how desperately self-proclaimed marxist-leninists in 2022 want it to be the bestest coolest place ever, betrayed by the west, forced to enable and fuel Hitler, sorry. Three sovereign nations conquered and forcibly russified, an attempt on Finland, the conquest and russificiation of eastern Poland and Moldova, eh, pretty axisy there Stalin.

Speaking of forcible russification- I get that The Stans are a black hole of "uh, wars, taliban, idk man" to the western normie but I'm shocked no one in this thread has mentioned Kazuzturktajkyrgyzstan down below Russia.

Fun fact: Kazakhstan is in the process of swapping the kazakh language to the latin alphabet as a response to being genocided into using cyrillic. In 2025 all kazakh kindergarteners will learn their letters in latin. Latin kazakh already exists, tbh, so it's more of a middle finger to Russia considering Kazakhstan Russia IV.

I don't think anyone is arguing that the USSR wasn't super bad, imperialist, genocidal, etc, just that they were doing their own thing rather than Hitler's thing. The pact was basically "we both really want to fight, but neither of us can afford it right now, so let's just get our affairs in order before we start". That's not an alliance, there is no mutual obligation, only an understanding that neither party will invade the other.

# ? Jun 27, 2022 06:52

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

Phlegmish posted:

Took me a few seconds to realize this wasn't a serious map. I mean, whoever heard of 'Basque'? Ridiculous

A shocking amount of people reply not realising this. Kinda funny since the yellow immediately drew my eye to Parseltongue.

# ? Jun 27, 2022 06:58

VictualSquid: Feb 29, 2012; Gently enveloping the target with indiscriminate love.

I agree that calling the Russia retroactively an member of the anti-communist axis is possible. But is a wide enough definition of Axis that you really have to include Finland and Spain as members of the extended axis before that.

And that is just the second most politically loaded part of the map. Because it is very clear that occupied countries are divided between "side of the occupier" and "side of the populace" based on how the maker feels about that population.

Most extreme is Ukraine, topically. They were part of the USSR during the whole MR-Pact period, and later they got conquered by the axis and thus "joined" in the same way that Korea or Ethiopia did.

Also: I am allied east Prussia.
e: And btw. while Russia is complicated on the map. The true USSR is clearly indicated as being always part of the Allies.
ee: Oh, god. I get it. This map means to imply that the MR-Pact was between Russia and the Axis while going around Stalin's SU-Government. So it must imply that Molotov and Stalin were uninvolved in the decision and thus blameless, clearly.

VictualSquid fucked around with this message at 07:56 on Jun 27, 2022

# ? Jun 27, 2022 07:50

Blut: Sep 11, 2009; if someone is in the bottom 10%~ of a guillotine

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Speaking of forcible russification- I get that The Stans are a black hole of "uh, wars, taliban, idk man" to the western normie but I'm shocked no one in this thread has mentioned Kazuzturktajkyrgyzstan down below Russia.

Fun fact: Kazakhstan is in the process of swapping the kazakh language to the latin alphabet as a response to being genocided into using cyrillic. In 2025 all kazakh kindergarteners will learn their letters in latin. Latin kazakh already exists, tbh, so it's more of a middle finger to Russia considering Kazakhstan Russia IV.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Ukraine doing similar in the future as they (hopefully) recover from the war and become more integrated into the EU and isolated from Russia. Theres already some talk of it apparently.

# ? Jun 27, 2022 12:15

Edgar Allen Ho: Apr 3, 2017; by sebmojo

VictualSquid posted:

I agree that calling the Russia retroactively an member of the anti-communist axis is possible. But is a wide enough definition of Axis that you really have to include Finland and Spain as members of the extended axis before that.

And that is just the second most politically loaded part of the map. Because it is very clear that occupied countries are divided between "side of the occupier" and "side of the populace" based on how the maker feels about that population.

Most extreme is Ukraine, topically. They were part of the USSR during the whole MR-Pact period, and later they got conquered by the axis and thus "joined" in the same way that Korea or Ethiopia did.

Also: I am allied east Prussia.
e: And btw. while Russia is complicated on the map. The true USSR is clearly indicated as being always part of the Allies.
ee: Oh, god. I get it. This map means to imply that the MR-Pact was between Russia and the Axis while going around Stalin's SU-Government. So it must imply that Molotov and Stalin were uninvolved in the decision and thus blameless, clearly.

Finland absolutely was in the Axis and the whole "separate concurrent but good war that just so happened to coincide with the nazi war, hmm woops seems nazi troops are invading Russia through our land, not us tho, we're good guys" poo poo is dumb as all hell.

Romania has the same trajectory and killed far more nazis when they swapped back to the allies, but nobody is saying they weren't in the Axis.

e: Cretaceous Earth in the Land Before Time cinematic universe

Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Jun 27, 2022

# ? Jun 27, 2022 13:45

Teriyaki Hairpiece: Dec 29, 2006; I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.

At the absolute least, the USSR and Germany were co-belligerents. I mean the Soviets didn't accidentally stumble into Poland, they weren't lost and trying to ask for directions

# ? Jun 27, 2022 16:09

VictualSquid: Feb 29, 2012; Gently enveloping the target with indiscriminate love.

Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:

At the absolute least, the USSR and Germany were co-belligerents. I mean the Soviets didn't accidentally stumble into Poland, they weren't lost and trying to ask for directions

If you look at the map that started the discussion, you will clearly see that Russia and the Axis were those co-belligerents. And Germany as an independent actor or the USSR as a whole were unaffected. So, clearly neither Molotov nor Ribbentov were involved in any events that could lead to Russia being accused of being part of the Axis.
There is no other interpretation of the map that makes sense to me.

# ? Jun 27, 2022 16:59

FishBulbia: Dec 22, 2021

Randallteal posted:

You invade one country together with Nazi Germany, secretly divide the rest of eastern europe up with them, transfer them money, authorize German-supervised population transfers from your side of the border, and to mutually police it for dissident agitators and people start throwing all kinds of crazy labels around.

Right, its an argument. But Ukraine and Belarus should both be red then.

# ? Jun 27, 2022 17:16

FishBulbia: Dec 22, 2021

WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:

The Soviets: spain is a fascist axis power

Also the soviets: Germany is a great partner in the west and ending the relationship would be tragic.

Stalin's main concern in Spain: How do I get that spanish gold. Second, how do I kill as many foreign trotskiest as possible.

# ? Jun 27, 2022 17:19

Archduke Frantz Fanon: Sep 7, 2004

FishBulbia posted:

Stalin's main concern in Spain: How do I get that spanish gold. Second, how do I kill as many foreign trotskiest as possible.

"What do you mean there is an icepick shortage in madrid???"

# ? Jun 27, 2022 17:56

TinTower: Apr 21, 2010; You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

The USSR of 1939 was an axis power no matter how desperately self-proclaimed marxist-leninists in 2022 want it to be the bestest coolest place ever, betrayed by the west, forced to enable and fuel Hitler, sorry. Three sovereign nations conquered and forcibly russified, an attempt on Finland, the conquest and russificiation of eastern Poland and Moldova, eh, pretty axisy there Stalin.

Speaking of forcible russification- I get that The Stans are a black hole of "uh, wars, taliban, idk man" to the western normie but I'm shocked no one in this thread has mentioned Kazuzturktajkyrgyzstan down below Russia.

Fun fact: Kazakhstan is in the process of swapping the kazakh language to the latin alphabet as a response to being genocided into using cyrillic. In 2025 all kazakh kindergarteners will learn their letters in latin. Latin kazakh already exists, tbh, so it's more of a middle finger to Russia considering Kazakhstan Russia IV.

Ah, but according to this English lit professor, Poland technically didn't exist when the Soviets invaded, checkmate liberal.

# ? Jun 27, 2022 18:25

Golbez: Oct 9, 2002; 1 2 3!
If you want to take a shot at me get in line, line
1 2 3!
Baby, I've had all my shots and I'm fine

Guavanaut posted:

Checks out though.

I hate this map with a passion. It appears modern at first glance but has so many weird problems and anachronisms.

# ? Jun 27, 2022 20:35

Peggotty: May 9, 2014

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

The USSR of 1939 was an axis power no matter how desperately self-proclaimed marxist-leninists in 2022 want it to be the bestest coolest place ever, betrayed by the west, forced to enable and fuel Hitler, sorry.

self-proclaimed is my favourite political insult. Like they're lacking the official credentials to write "ML" in the twitter bio, gotta visit the ideology bureau and get their documents in order.

# ? Jun 28, 2022 09:10

Private Speech: Mar 30, 2011; I HAVE EVEN MORE WORTHLESS BEANIE BABIES IN MY COLLECTION THAN I HAVE WORTHLESS POSTS IN THE BEANIE BABY THREAD YET I STILL HAVE THE TEMERITY TO CRITICIZE OTHERS' COLLECTIONS

IF YOU SEE ME TALKING ABOUT BEANIE BABIES, PLEASE TELL ME TO

EAT. SHIT.

Peggotty posted:

self-proclaimed is my favourite political insult. Like they're lacking the official credentials to write "ML" in the twitter bio, gotta visit the ideology bureau and get their documents in order.

A dig at Stalinists might be more appropriate too, given who was in charge then & all that.

# ? Jun 28, 2022 14:45

Civilized Fishbot: Apr 3, 2011

Private Speech posted:

A dig at Stalinists might be more appropriate too, given who was in charge then & all that.

Marxist-Leninist and Stalinist mean the same thing. Marxism-Leninism was developed by Stalin.

# ? Jun 29, 2022 00:30

Private Speech: Mar 30, 2011; I HAVE EVEN MORE WORTHLESS BEANIE BABIES IN MY COLLECTION THAN I HAVE WORTHLESS POSTS IN THE BEANIE BABY THREAD YET I STILL HAVE THE TEMERITY TO CRITICIZE OTHERS' COLLECTIONS

IF YOU SEE ME TALKING ABOUT BEANIE BABIES, PLEASE TELL ME TO

EAT. SHIT.

Civilized Fishbot posted:

Marxist-Leninist and Stalinist mean the same thing. Marxism-Leninism was developed by Stalin.

I'd argue it doesn't, it was the descriptive word for soviet ideology stemming from Lenin until the end.

# ? Jun 29, 2022 01:00

Milo and POTUS: Sep 3, 2017; I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation I have. I built a shrine in my room for the yellow one who died because sadly no one noticed because she died around 9/11. Wanna see it?

I saw the google street car the other day, does anyone have any idea how long it might take to show up? I've seen answers ranging anywhere from ~24 hours to several months. It was probably the closest I've come to meeting a celebrity I'll ever get and I can't wait to show my friends

# ? Jun 29, 2022 07:32

Carbon dioxide: Oct 9, 2012

Milo and POTUS posted:

I saw the google street car the other day, does anyone have any idea how long it might take to show up? I've seen answers ranging anywhere from ~24 hours to several months. It was probably the closest I've come to meeting a celebrity I'll ever get and I can't wait to show my friends

Did you moon 'em?

# ? Jun 29, 2022 07:37

Groke: Jul 27, 2007; New Adventures In Mom Strength

Milo and POTUS posted:

I saw the google street car the other day, does anyone have any idea how long it might take to show up? I've seen answers ranging anywhere from ~24 hours to several months. It was probably the closest I've come to meeting a celebrity I'll ever get and I can't wait to show my friends

Dunno, they've been by our neighbourhood like four times since 2010; the most recent time was a week or two ago and the newst images that are online are still form 2018.

(Back in 2010 they caught a younger me out for a walk with #1 kid, when he was a toddler. That's my legacy for posterity...)

# ? Jun 29, 2022 09:33

Poil: Mar 17, 2007

Carbon dioxide posted:

Did you moon 'em?

Considering how frequent that must be they probably already have automatic software in place to scrub all the bare butts they record.

# ? Jun 29, 2022 10:42

Carbon dioxide: Oct 9, 2012

Debate & Discussion � politically-loaded maps: Streetview's automatic butt-scrubbing software

# ? Jun 29, 2022 11:04

Jippa: Feb 13, 2009

I saw a dude taking a piss in brazil and it didn't scrub that but always does on helpful road signs it thinks are number plates.

# ? Jun 29, 2022 11:09

Edgar Allen Ho: Apr 3, 2017; by sebmojo

Is it strange to be jealous of this brazilian legend

That's a legacy right there

# ? Jun 29, 2022 11:51

Pakled: Aug 6, 2011; WE ARE SMART

https://twitter.com/luxuryjeff/status/1541879588095250436

# ? Jun 29, 2022 14:44

Reveilled: Apr 19, 2007; Take up your rifles

I had no idea Oklahoma and Kansas are the same place!

# ? Jun 29, 2022 15:53

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Big Texas strikes again

# ? Jun 29, 2022 15:55

Carbon dioxide: Oct 9, 2012

The logos of the municipal office of every municipality in the Netherlands.

# ? Jun 29, 2022 18:20

Judgy Fucker: Mar 24, 2006

.txl

# ? Jun 29, 2022 19:02

steinrokkan: Apr 2, 2011; Soiled Meat

Carbon dioxide posted:

The logos of the municipal office of every municipality in the Netherlands.

Mediocrity overload :barf:

# ? Jun 29, 2022 19:10

Milo and POTUS: Sep 3, 2017; I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation I have. I built a shrine in my room for the yellow one who died because sadly no one noticed because she died around 9/11. Wanna see it?

Carbon dioxide posted:

Did you moon 'em?

I got a hank hill rear end so no

# ? Jun 29, 2022 22:45

Starks: Sep 24, 2006

Is Amsterdam�s coat of arms really just the symbol for porn

# ? Jun 30, 2022 06:19

Angepain: Jul 13, 2012; what keeps happening to my clothes

I think my favourite is the random cloud of letters there in the north

Also shout out to Boxtel for not just looking like a small company with bad product quality but also sounding like one

# ? Jun 30, 2022 09:30