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If I may offer up a suggestion: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2296065044 e: new page, this is in response to Grand Fromage's screenshots bottom of last page
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Jun 29, 2022 04:23
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| # ? May 24, 2024 07:11 |
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Nice. I only have one Japanese cop car/fire truck/ambulance. I hadn't remembered to switch the models until after that screenshot.
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Jun 29, 2022 04:34
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I'm not sure I've ever even once zoomed in on one of my cities like that. Looks cool.
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Jun 29, 2022 05:03
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Now that I have gotten "good" at the game, I hate two things more than anything, Deathcare (and to a lesser extent Landfills) below whatever it is population count that unlocks incinerators and crematoriums...and finite resources. By the time I've finally got my Oil or Ore industries humming along I'm out of resources and going into debt to acquire raw materials. I don't want to enable infinite resources but I will now. edit: Eric the Mauve posted:Friend, have you heard the good news of our savior the No Deathcare mod? https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=803074771 i had no idea Blimpkin fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Jun 29, 2022 |
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Jun 29, 2022 15:19
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Friend, have you heard the good news of our savior the No Deathcare mod?
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Jun 29, 2022 15:25
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They should have rolled deathcare into Park Life by letting you designate areas as cemeteries and had associated assets that you could plop down like funeral homes, mausoleums, grave plots, etc.
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Jun 29, 2022 15:48
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QuantaStarFire posted:They should have rolled deathcare into Park Life by letting you designate areas as cemeteries and had associated assets that you could plop down like funeral homes, mausoleums, grave plots, etc. 
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Jun 29, 2022 16:17
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Are there any mods that add pre-war mixed-use style zoning? Or is the suburb/skyscraper helldichotomy hardcoded?
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Jun 29, 2022 16:55
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It's not possible to do vertical mixed use. Hope for it to be in the sequel. E: You can fake it though, there are workshop props that are just store/business facades you can stick on residential buildings. Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Jun 29, 2022 |
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Jun 29, 2022 17:20
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There are some buildings to be used with ploppable RICO that allow you to have mixed use buildings (separate first and upper floors) but you’d need to plop everything and that sucks imo
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Jun 29, 2022 20:26
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Even in the virtual world I can't escape the suburbs
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Jun 29, 2022 20:35
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Jun 29, 2022 23:27
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The only way to get mixed use without plopping everything is to mix your zones and ensure compatible styles in your district's themes, plus the district policy that doesn't allow high-rises.
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Jun 30, 2022 00:37
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Yeah horizontal mixed use is easy.
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Jun 30, 2022 00:45
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mixed use is up there with roads that actually treat lanes properly as things that would massively improve a sequel.
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Jun 30, 2022 00:55
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Cat Wings posted:mixed use is up there with roads that actually treat lanes properly as things that would massively improve a sequel. (Of course, this begs the question, in actual cities, why would you zone anything but mixed-use...)
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Jun 30, 2022 02:35
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A major reason is there just isn't that much commercial demand realistically. The vast majority of any city is going to be residences. Like even Tokyo has enormous swaths of single family residential with detached houses, it's just that there are commercial and light industrial uses mixed into it and single family housing there is not on gigantic lots, the houses are close together. The zoning is also pretty complex and there are lots of categories with a lot of allowed uses, like if you have a three story house you have the right to open a business in the first floor if you want to. Most people don't want to though, so you mostly get just residential. Having some way to implement lots as a concept separate from buildings would help. Maybe through more granular density where you can have a medium or high density single family residential district, that automatically makes lots barely larger than the house. Procedurally generated buildings are probably going to look like poo poo for the foreseeable future, but procedural lots would be much easier. Mix and match from a pool of appropriate props, with a BOB mod like ability to edit those on the fly if you don't like them. Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at 02:48 on Jun 30, 2022 |
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Jun 30, 2022 02:42
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Grand Fromage posted:Having some way to implement lots as a concept separate from buildings would help. Maybe through more granular density where you can have a medium or high density single family residential district, that automatically makes lots barely larger than the house. Procedurally generated buildings are probably going to look like poo poo for the foreseeable future, but procedural lots would be much easier. Mix and match from a pool of appropriate props, with a BOB mod like ability to edit those on the fly if you don't like them. this is basically how sc4 works so its not impossible to implement in a theoretical cs:2
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Jun 30, 2022 18:53
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There's a lot of things they could do like that with semi-procedural stuff while still keeping it practical. Dynamic texture variation/coloring would do a lot to reduce the building clone effect. I'd love dynamic skyscraper heights where simpler skyscrapers could be defined as [base][repeating section][roof] and it just chucks in how ever many middle segments it chooses.
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Jun 30, 2022 19:38
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Albino Squirrel posted:I don't think it would be difficult to implement, but from a game mechanic aspect it is a bit problematic - why would you zone anything BUT mixed-use? You'd have to be careful in how you implemented it, or give it some relevant disadvantage compared to single-use residential/commercial/office zoning, or else your downtowns are all going to look identical. You zone, at least by the Japanese model (which isn't solely Japanese, my own small city in the US has something similar), within categories of mixed-use. So 12 standard categories and two nonstandard: 0) Unzonable land, allocated at the national level. Preexisting structures and the remodeling thereof is allowed. Essentially, this is your adjacent plots in SC4/C:S, land you can subsequently expand into as some kind of reward; additionally under this model you would have a small existing pop and ag base that a major goal as a starter town would be to provide services for before incorporating. To make it into the skeleton of a game: Starter: 1) Lowrise residential A. SFH, duplex through around septuplex studios. Also allows schooling through age 18, clinics, religious buildings, and extremely smallscale retail (think those antique shops or bookstores people run from their bottom floor. 2) Lowrise residential B. As 1, but also allows farmer's markets, diners, etc. Hit 100 pop, unlock avenues (2/1, turn lanes, etc), stoplights, one-way. 3) Midrise residential A. As 1-2, but also allows small detatched or single-level entire-floor stores and restaurants, and single-tile light industry. Hit 500 pop, unlock 4-lane intersettlement and construction of passenger rail stations on existing lines. 4) Midrise residential B. As 1-3, but also allows hospitals, universities, larger stores and restaurants. 5) Dense residential A. As 1-4, but also allows stores up to 100 tiles, 4-tile light industry, offices (read, high-education clean I), and hotels. Hit 1000 pop, unlock boulevards (4-lane), trams, buses. 6) Dense residential B. As 1-5, with the addition of 4-tile entertainment and its traffic and noise pollution. 7) Quasi-residential. As 1-6, with the addition of 16-tile entertainment, 8-tile light productive industry, and warehouses (I, minimal pollution, loooots of traffic). Hit 5000 pop, unlock construction of new light rail lines. 8) Neighborhood commercial. As 1-7, with the addition of commercial buildings of unlimited size. 9) Commercial. As 1-8, and uniquely, unlike the rest of the system, adds nightlife: C, high noise pollution, high crime, simulation gives a large penalty to the primary education attractiveness of the area for R development purposes? Hit 10000 pop, unlock 6-lane roads and heavy rail spur construction but not signaling or internal lines. 10) Quasi-industrial. As 1-8, additionally allows medium pollution I. Hit 25000 pop, unlock full heavy rail and metro construction. 11) Industrial. As 1-8 except disallowing hotels, schools, universities, and unlimited-size C, additionally allows high pollution I. 12) Exclusively industrial. Allows only clinics, religious buildings, entertainment, all industry. Hit 50000 pop: Ω) Arcologies and other ploppable special buildings. In cases of inadequate services, buildings will become abandoned, then reroll among the pool that services support, as in SC or C:I. The challenge of the game, like the challenge of Japanese zoning, is that you can't directly force a tile-occupier to move along as you upzone; you need to provide an attractive space for that agent to move to or they'll keep their nail house, opening the option of just sprawling fresh zones away from existing services but then having to build new ones, similar to how W&R handles it. You also can't simply layer 9 or even 6-8 or 10 everywhere, as 9 in particular is extremely unattractive to pops with children and 6-8 require high-end transit throughout while the noise pollution makes it not quite as attractive residentially (and, of course, to provide much I you need 10 with its pollution).
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Jun 30, 2022 22:55
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having 12 different zoning options with subtly difference choices sounds like a bit of a nightmare from a UX perspective also a lot of that I feel would work better as district policies. like, keep the usual RCI + density zones, add the ability to zone more than one type in the same space, then add a bunch of district policies and sliders like max pollution, max loudness, max traffic, nightlife, etc. which influence what kinda buildings choose to pop up and the corresponding local effects. And then if you change the policy existing buildings are grandfathered unless you run the bulldozer through. and for convenience the ability to copypaste or otherwise transfer district policies. e: also local effects for ploppables. like, elementary schools force speed limits on adjacent roads (unless you turn off the policy in which case your roadkill stats go up), government & police buildings attract protests that may scare away commercial while transit stations increase pedestrian traffic which attract commercial, hospitals & fire buildings create noise zones, etc. (basically extend what games already do with pollution) also $$ and $$$ zones could develop private schools and clinics and whatnot that supplement your public works' capacity but only if the demand, zoning and policies line up. Kyte fucked around with this message at 08:25 on Jul 1, 2022 |
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Jul 1, 2022 08:06
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Blimpkin posted:Now that I have gotten "good" at the game, I hate two things more than anything, Deathcare (and to a lesser extent Landfills) below whatever it is population count that unlocks incinerators and crematoriums...and finite resources. By the time I've finally got my Oil or Ore industries humming along I'm out of resources and going into debt to acquire raw materials. If you want to avoid outright cheating the realistic population mod, among various other things, does kill deathwaves pretty handily by making incoming ages a lot more variable so it's just another garbage-type to handle.
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Jul 1, 2022 13:22
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Blimpkin posted:Now that I have gotten "good" at the game, I hate two things more than anything, Deathcare (and to a lesser extent Landfills) below whatever it is population count that unlocks incinerators and crematoriums...and finite resources. By the time I've finally got my Oil or Ore industries humming along I'm out of resources and going into debt to acquire raw materials. I have a mod that sets resource depletion to 10% - feels much more reasonable that way. I thought oil and ore could still turn a profit even if you were importing the raw goods, though? Or is that only if you've got the factories pumping out specialized products?
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Jul 1, 2022 15:19
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I feel like sliders and granular policies would kill the point, both as a didactic example of maximum-nuisance zoning, as a game of having to maintain ratios where you don't have direct control of what gets built (and don't have that bulldozer! Or at least need to manage your money more carefully, to buy out and eventually resell tiles.), and of keeping the zone type count manageable. Though 12 zones is, let's be honest, only 3 more than SC4 throws at you. You could, however, in the interest of catering to RCIbrain, condense down 1+2, 4+5, 8+9, and 11+12 with district policy. At which point you'd be left with a zone lineup that looks like: Lowrise R (policy to exclusively roll R buildings), Midrise R Midrise Rural C (policy to allow big-box), Midrise Town C, Highrise C, Highrise Urban C (policy to allow nightlife) Mid-intensity I, High-intensity I (policy to exclusively roll I buildings) That gives you fewer direct zone types to deal with than SC4, while also letting you bill it as the only citybuilder to simulate an actual, real-life zoning policy.
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Jul 1, 2022 21:05
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It's less the number and more about the distinction between zones. RCI is popular because it's easy to grasp. Yes, SC4 has 9 zones but they aren't 9 zones, they're 3 types x 3 densities. Red/green/blue + light/medium/dark. (Plus brown for landfills) That's why I proposed overlapping RCI zones instead of mixed zones. It's easy to grasp "Mid R + Low C" or "Low R + Low I" or such, and it lets you keep using existing visual language using stripes for the combinations. If you don't want to allow silly combinations (why not? experimenting is fun), just disallow the respective overlaps. In your example I don't know what's the difference between Mid Rural C and Mid Town C or High C and High Urban C and I'd have to be checking the tooltip, and it'd need new visual language to communicate the difference because you don't want your players to need to use the magnifying glass every time they forget what they zoned. The subtler the differences, the harder it is to communicate them to the player at a glance. tbh I care much less about the realism level than I do about UX and fun. And frankly I don't think realism is a worthwhile selling point. Plus, it means you're once again fixing the game to a singular paradigm, and disallowing experimentation. The advantage of specifying the restrictions independently is that you can build your own schemes that may or may not make sense but may better match what you personally know or maybe you just want to have some fun tormenting sims by allowing nightclubs everywhere. And I maybe failed to communicate this but I meant policies as about what's allowed to be built, but doesn't mean it lets you instantly remove whatever fails to qualify for the new standards. E: I'd absolutely hate a city builder without a dozer. We're talking about a game, dude. e2: random thought. homeless population could be represented by having zero-$ residential popping up in undeveloped (and possibly unzoned) land and generally being a pain in the rear end to remove. kinda funny only tropico models that kinda stuff. (that I know of) Kyte fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Jul 2, 2022 |
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Jul 2, 2022 10:16
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i was watching city planner and he started a retro series with sc4 and there are two things I forget i missed: - Landfill zones. it makes way more sense! hopefully it gets picked up by whatever the next king of sim city mountain is. - watching little dudes do construction 
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Jul 2, 2022 14:44
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The charm, personality, and visuals of SC4 and even the most recent SimCity are best in genre, imho.
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Jul 2, 2022 21:17
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I'd have to give the nod to SC3K in those categories. Personality and charm that is. For visuals sure, SimShitty wins there if you're comparing to Skylines out of the box, though with mods Skylines can blow everything away visually.
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Jul 2, 2022 21:21
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Skylines aims for a style of realism that I find to be incredibly boring and bland, personally. Even with mods, everything feels very drab.
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Jul 2, 2022 21:59
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The SimCity 2000 style LUT is pretty cool.
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Jul 2, 2022 22:04
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Eric the Mauve posted:The SimCity 2000 style LUT is pretty cool. I'd kill for them to put in a proper isometric camera. There is (or at least was) a mod for that but it made things pretty buggy, especially in terms of LoD models. Even so, it just made it charming: 
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Jul 3, 2022 08:18
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Archduke Frantz Fanon posted:
Absolute best part of W&R hands down.
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Jul 3, 2022 19:55
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I've decided to challenge myself by retrofitting an existing city with bike infrastructure. I was looking for advice on Biffa's channel but he is using Network Multitool, which I don't want to install on my current city because it's barely holding together as a two year old save with multiple mods. Any advice for vanilla bike infrastructure added in after the fact?
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Jul 3, 2022 21:03
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Jul 4, 2022 05:01
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That causes me great pain.
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Jul 4, 2022 05:21
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Confused me for a second, thought it was my belts in Factorio.
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Jul 4, 2022 05:41
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How'd you get your hands on one of my dozens of old cities!? Also, partially related, what's a decent way to make two roads terminate into one like this?  I have all the usual mods that should let me wrangle it as needed (Move It/Road Anarchy/etc).
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Jul 4, 2022 15:49
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Protocol7 posted:How'd you get your hands on one of my dozens of old cities!? I've become a fan of looping a half circle to meet the 2-way road perpendicularly but hit the one ways straight on. I wish we had more sunken overpass options. It's so difficult to make them.
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Jul 4, 2022 15:54
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is it just me or are freight hub airports completely unmanageable traffic-wise? Add a long spur freeway, eight lanes in either direction, all the way to it and the fucker still backs all the way up
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Jul 4, 2022 15:55
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| # ? May 24, 2024 07:11 |
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mutata posted:The charm, personality, and visuals of SC4 and even the most recent SimCity are best in genre, imho. SC2016 had a lot of nice touches. I loved how you could expand buildings by plopping additional pieces. It also looked really nice and the music was always great. Shame the core systems were hosed.
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Jul 4, 2022 16:22
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