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Phenotype posted:Was Renly's actor not a good pick? I watched the first season of the show before I read the books, so my impressions are colored, but I thought the guy looked enough like Robert (well, dark haired and bearded, anyway) and was obviously the non-martial younger sibling so he might not be as big. I thought he felt good as the guy who was popular at court but kinda naive as to how ruthless everyone would be. In the books, he's big and beefy and handsome, traveling in armor and competing in tourneys. He was supposed to be a contradiction of typical expectations of masculinity. You didn't really see gay characters like him in the nineties. I'm not one of those people who demand that all actors look like their characters, but it is kind of fun to imagine that book character walking around instead of the guy in the shaving scene.
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Jul 3, 2022 17:54
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Pennsylvanian posted:In the books, he's big and beefy and handsome, traveling in armor and competing in tourneys. He was supposed to be a contradiction of typical expectations of masculinity. You didn't really see gay characters like him in the nineties. you sure about that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWVdv4Qalcg
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Jul 3, 2022 18:15
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Loras was fine in the 1st season where not only did he have his best look and actually got to do some fighting, but he was also shown to be cunning (in how he knew he had no actual chance against the Mountain and so he rigged the joust) and manipulative (in how he convinces Renly to go for the Throne). Then s2 introduced Margaery and she became the cunning and manipulative Tyrell, and the only trait Loras was left with was G A Y, and nothing else is ever done with his character until he dies.
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Jul 3, 2022 18:38
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Wilas and Garland Tyrell were cool and should have been in the show, even though both would have likely been unceremoniously killed off
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Jul 3, 2022 23:42
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Willas is my favourite Ser Not Appearing In This Series. They could have at least rolled the other Tyrell kids into Loras and Marg instead of just making Loras suck. They even hosed up Highgarden. It's a boring generic castle on a hill in an empty field. Where's the farms? Where's the orchards? Where's the hedge maze? Do a cgi ya fraud hacks. Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Jul 3, 2022 |
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Jul 3, 2022 23:48
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The gay men in GoT were so obviously written by straight guys who think "Since we go 'eww' around their stuff, they must go 'eww' around our stuff," resulting in Renly looking like he swallowed a lemon while looking at a naked Margaery.
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Jul 4, 2022 01:38
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Makes as much sense as anything from the last couple seasons. 
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Jul 4, 2022 02:59
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lezard_valeth posted:Then s2 introduced Margaery and she became the cunning and manipulative Tyrell, and the only trait Loras was left with was G A Y, and nothing else is ever done with his character until he dies. Coquito Ergo Sum posted:The gay men in GoT were so obviously written by straight guys who think "Since we go 'eww' around their stuff, they must go 'eww' around our stuff," resulting in Renly looking like he swallowed a lemon while looking at a naked Margaery. God, the scene where Sansa is trying to flirt with Loras is so, so bad.
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Jul 4, 2022 03:08
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Coquito Ergo Sum posted:The gay men in GoT were so obviously written by straight guys who think "Since we go 'eww' around their stuff, they must go 'eww' around our stuff," resulting in Renly looking like he swallowed a lemon while looking at a naked Margaery. Well yes, and because he knew he had to bang her when he's a gay man to put a baby in her. Pretty weird thing to act.
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Jul 4, 2022 03:38
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if you have trouble imagining renly's disgust at seeing margaery's naked body, knowing what he's about to have to do, imagine your own trepidation at realising you need to do things with renly's anus. put the shoe on the other rear end.
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Jul 4, 2022 03:42
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roomtone posted:if you have trouble imagining renly's disgust at seeing margaery's naked body, knowing what he's about to have to do, imagine your own trepidation at realising you need to do things with renly's anus. put the shoe on the other rear end. Surely ingrained homophobia means the one-to-one reversal that you're suggesting doesn't necessarily hold? Though I guess we're all generalising here.
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Jul 4, 2022 03:49
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i think sexual ick is a pretty universal feeling, it's just where it lies that is different for everyone in renly's case, it lay in magaery's general direction
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Jul 4, 2022 03:51
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Coquito Ergo Sum posted:The gay men in GoT were so obviously written by straight guys who think "Since we go 'eww' around their stuff, they must go 'eww' around our stuff," resulting in Renly looking like he swallowed a lemon while looking at a naked Margaery. Is... is that not the case? I'm just ignorant but I've always thought being gay was yeah, just kinda the same attraction/eww factors only flipped.
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Jul 4, 2022 04:55
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Phenotype posted:Is... is that not the case? I'm just ignorant but I've always thought being gay was yeah, just kinda the same attraction/eww factors only flipped. IMO no. In my experience gay men, as subject to the hegemony, tend to be acclimated to images of objectified women, where as straight men tend to have more pressure on them to police the boundaries of their sexuality. Though I don't think there's any hard and rules there.
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Jul 4, 2022 05:27
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Rewatch continues. Just saw Barristan Selmy, greatest swordsman in the Seven Kingdoms, get killed in an alley like a rat, by a group of cultists. I hope he has a better end in the book.
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Jul 4, 2022 06:57
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MrMojok posted:Rewatch continues. Just saw Barristan Selmy, greatest swordsman in the Seven Kingdoms, get killed in an alley like a rat, by a group of cultists. i always remember the actor talking about in an interview how he went with the books to D&D and pointed out how he had a lot more story and this ending for him was kind of a pointless waste. there must have been so many times when actors went to them in the latter half asking 'you sure this is the direction you want to go here? cos you're sort of throwing away a whole lot of - ' 'silence peon!!! star wars!!!'
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Jul 4, 2022 08:39
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What book?
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Jul 4, 2022 08:43
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i haven't read them, but the actor did so i just trusted him that there was more stuff for him which they didn't do.
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Jul 4, 2022 08:46
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He seems to be in charge of the war in Meereen after Dany disappears, and he's teaching some Essos youth how to be knights and is involved in some intrigue involving Dany's husband (but might just be getting played) Some people think he'll hear of Aegon and betray Dany to go to his side. So yeah there was more going on in the books, the show just used him to narc on Jorah then killed him off
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Jul 4, 2022 09:08
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Loras's last good moment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHTCNce4Nec E: well, someone ruined this one with dubstep but the others I found ruined the line in the title
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Jul 4, 2022 09:09
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Phenotype posted:Is... is that not the case? I'm just ignorant but I've always thought being gay was yeah, just kinda the same attraction/eww factors only flipped. lmao i was about to post "i don't feel 'eww' at gay stuff" and then i remembered i am bisexual
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Jul 4, 2022 10:21
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edit: in retrospect this isn't a convo thread i want to continue
roomtone fucked around with this message at 10:39 on Jul 4, 2022 |
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Jul 4, 2022 10:32
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Captain Splendid posted:Loras's last good moment Blows your ears out with the dubstep too
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Jul 4, 2022 10:53
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Cutting out the Manderly plot was stupid at the time and looks so much dumber in retrospect but makes more sense since it's clear they decided they didn't care about writing politics anymore.
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Jul 4, 2022 15:16
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MrMojok posted:Rewatch continues. Just saw Barristan Selmy, greatest swordsman in the Seven Kingdoms, get killed in an alley like a rat, by a group of cultists. haha, like a botched mugging, and he wasn't even fighting alone. the actor seemed as confused by this as i was.
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Jul 4, 2022 15:22
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The Manderlys would have shown up for 5 minutes and hint they’re Stark supporters, only for Ramsay to kill them offscreen to show Theon/Sansa how hopeless everything is
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Jul 4, 2022 15:39
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MrMojok posted:Rewatch continues. Just saw Barristan Selmy, greatest swordsman in the Seven Kingdoms, get killed in an alley like a rat, by a group of cultists. Along those lines, we have Loras Tyrell, who is described as an utterly terrifying warrior whose only actual loss is to Brienne of Tarth, captured without issue by unarmored monks *as he’s in the middle of training*
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Jul 4, 2022 16:13
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i can fault the sansa rape scene, i think everyone can - it's way too much but in general i think the longevity of the ramsay psycho murder scenes does add something to the catharsis of when he's actually defeated. it's not a totally bad idea, they just went a little far in some places like geroge lucas.
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Jul 4, 2022 16:17
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Loras Tyrell wasn't an utterly terrifying warrior, he was characterized as a pretty boy dilettante who was good at tournament combat but wouldn't be all that great in an actual fight. I think Book Loras was supposed to be a little more competent but IIRC the only fighting he ever did was getting badly wounded offscreen doing something for the Tyrells.
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Jul 4, 2022 16:30
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I don't remember the scene but I think in real life a master swordsman would lose to 3-4 moderately competent opponents working together
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Jul 4, 2022 16:36
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That was how the plan to capture Jaime worked. They rushed him with like 8 guys and he even took a lot of them down and almost got to Robb, but pre-losing his hand he was the best sword fighter in the series
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Jul 4, 2022 16:41
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Qwertycoatl posted:I don't remember the scene but I think in real life a master swordsman would lose to 3-4 moderately competent opponents working together RIP Syrio Forel. Remember when we all thought he was really a faceless man or Jaquen Hagar or whatever his name was?
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Jul 4, 2022 17:05
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Phenotype posted:Loras Tyrell wasn't an utterly terrifying warrior, he was characterized as a pretty boy dilettante who was good at tournament combat but wouldn't be all that great in an actual fight. I think Book Loras was supposed to be a little more competent but IIRC the only fighting he ever did was getting badly wounded offscreen doing something for the Tyrells. In the books, he's rumored to be dying from grave injuries sustained while retaking Dragonstone from Stannis' men (on behalf of Cersei lol)
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Jul 4, 2022 17:13
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“the dwarf lives, until we find a cock merchant”
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Jul 4, 2022 17:19
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roomtone posted:but in general i think the longevity of the ramsay psycho murder scenes does add something to the catharsis of when he's actually defeated. it's not a totally bad idea, they just went a little far in some places like geroge lucas. Yeah, they needed something to set Ramsay up as capable and dislikable, but I think they went too far in places to the point where they made him a Villain-Sue. When I rewatch The Dark Knight, all I can think is that I see the writers setting up all of Joker's plans for him, because it's impossible to imagine how much planning and timing went into all of his plans going off at just the right time. I have the same issues with Ramsay during ridiculous moments where I can see the writers twisting reality in service of his character, like during the Theon rescue scene or the Battle of the Bastards or "poisoned by our enemies." At no point do they really give him any flaws beyond being simply cruel. BotB would have been interesting if the armies had turned on him for ordering them to fire arrows on their fellow soldiers or something. For what it's worth I think Book Littlefinger gets a little too much help from the writer as well. The books give me certain feelings about the gory content as well. GRRM gets a lot of pushback for including so much rape and murder and cruelty in his books, but there's as much as you'd see in any war (just look at conflicts going on at this very moment around the world), and it's mostly all done in point out how justice is doled out only when a system lets it be doled out. On the other hand, I read about Biter chewing off a Septa's breast, and I can't help but imagine an author with a childish gore obsession dumping their brain onto a page. Qwertycoatl posted:I don't remember the scene but I think in real life a master swordsman would lose to 3-4 moderately competent opponents working together The books are weird in that there are just a lot of genetic freaks in them. There are a lot of characters who are over seven feet tall and are capable of some really crazy physical feats, as well as men in their 60s and older who can fight like men much younger than them. I think we do forget that George is still dealing in fantasy sometimes, too. I think there's also an aspect of bullshit to a lot of the hyping up of certain characters' fighting abilities. A lot of characters who get hyped up as being "the best fighter in <x>" usually aren't seen fighting, or they get killed pretty unceremoniously. Phenotype posted:Loras Tyrell wasn't an utterly terrifying warrior, he was characterized as a pretty boy dilettante who was good at tournament combat but wouldn't be all that great in an actual fight. I think Book Loras was supposed to be a little more competent but IIRC the only fighting he ever did was getting badly wounded offscreen doing something for the Tyrells. Yeah, and we're not even sure if he's wounded or not, because we hear the news from Aurane Waters, who is just obviously a con man. Pennsylvanian fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Jul 4, 2022 |
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Jul 4, 2022 18:51
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bobjr posted:The Manderlys would have shown up for 5 minutes and hint they’re Stark supporters, only for Ramsay to kill them offscreen to show Theon/Sansa how hopeless everything is They do put him in the show to have Lyanna Mormont chew him out after the Battle of the Bastards for not supporting the Starks after his son was murdered at the Red Wedding and have him say how he didn't have faith and didn't wanna sacrifice more Manderlies.
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Jul 4, 2022 19:35
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As Nero Danced posted:RIP Syrio Forel. His honor forbade him from picking up the sword from one of the guys he knocked out.
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Jul 4, 2022 19:50
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It’s getting crazier how the further I go, I realize much of the later seasons of this show I’ve either forgotten or just blocked out. This morning I’ve seen the awful Jamie/Bronn vs. Sand Snakes fight, leading to the poisoning of Ser Bronn by the cowardly Lady Tyene of Badpussy. The Arya assassin training that makes no sense at all. Also Twenty Good Men laying waste to Stannis’ preparations for battle (almost entirely offscreen) On the positive side, at least the last quarter of Hardhome was a banger. Also I will admit, Stephen Dillane as Stannis has been one of my favorite castings/performances of the show, along with Mark Addy as Robert and the Great Ser Charles of the House of Dance.
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Jul 4, 2022 20:36
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I loved how nonchalant Charles Dance was about spoilers, after season 2 they asked which book scene he enjoyed the most only for him to say 'My death scene.'
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Jul 4, 2022 20:54
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Fun game - how much of The North actually Remembers? Because I *think* its Lyanna Mormont. That's it.
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Jul 4, 2022 21:06
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