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Kaal posted:Yeah this sort of thing is just a Republican retread of the Great Boogeywoman that they kept up for the last 30 years. If folks are actually curious what HRC is up to, her Facebook has her latest doings: Raising money for women's rights orgs like NARAL and Emily's List, encouraging people to sponsor Ukrainian refugees, slamming the Supreme Court as the biggest threat to democracy since Trump's attempted coup, and promoting her mystery thriller book that she and author Louise Penny have been working on. Did you miss out on the media literacy thread? Lot of good info in there about evaluating your sources and recognising bias, and it seems like her personal staff-mainted, promotional Facebook feed is maybe not a very comprehensive source on what she's planning? e: quote has never been edit
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Jul 4, 2022 22:22
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Darko posted:The Left really, really needs to unite around actual messaging that will make sense and do something. Like limiting magazine sizes. Having to reload more will at least save more lives by default, stop the dumb assault weapon semantics that will go nowhere and cause dumb arguments, and can also be used to shame people against it (why do you need 30+ rounds to hit something?) If they can't do that, we're just stuck in Gunworld forever. Doesn’t matter what the messaging is. Majority of Americans already agree with them that something needs to be done but you have one side that is completely uncompromising with regards to any sort of gun legislation, but now they have a Supreme Court ready to back them up on striking down any gun law in the country.
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Jul 4, 2022 22:26
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some plague rats posted:Did you miss out on the media literacy thread? Lot of good info in there about evaluating your sources and recognising bias, and it seems like her personal staff-mainted, promotional Facebook feed is maybe not a very comprehensive source on what she's planning? Between this and the established opinion in the Fox News Universe about Mrs. Clinton I am not sure why his view should be given great weight.
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Jul 4, 2022 22:28
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Media literacy apparently means devouring right-wing media nonsense? Maybe do a re-read of that yourself champ.
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Jul 4, 2022 22:28
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Nessus posted:I'm not sure if this is against the rules or something but I went to look up the dude on Wikipedia, and I didn't mean to suggest he was taking orders from Hilary, but since his most recent campaign was for Bloomberg and he specifically listed himself as a former Clinton staffer it seemed indicative that there are Dem partisans who want to see this happen, not just fox news scrounging around for a boogeyman. Schoen and his mercenary ilk are a decent bellwether of where the money is, he doesn't have any actual beliefs or ideology and won't even get out of bed unless he thinks there's a profit to be had. A Clinton campaign would funnel huge amount of money to scumbags like him so naturally there's a big faction of Dem "consultants" who want to see her run again, and unfortunately these people get listened to.
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Jul 4, 2022 22:32
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I figure the best way to get any form of gun control is to create a super PAC that can bribe (or "lobby") one dollar more than the NRA.
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Jul 4, 2022 22:37
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Kaal posted:Media literacy apparently means devouring right-wing media nonsense? Maybe do a re-read of that yourself champ. ...it means not using someone's extremely cynical self-promoting adverts as an indicator of their plans, guy.
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Jul 4, 2022 22:37
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Both of the recent articles that got posted here about 'maybe hillary is the dem hope in 2024' were from long-time fox news employees. They especially are not from hillary surrogates, which I don't think even exist anymore. Neither of those appeared to be in any way whatsoever self promotion, unless you think that hillary went to a long time fox news host who now spouts insane poo poo on newsmax to be her unique representative.
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Jul 4, 2022 22:45
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The Angry Bum posted:Doesn’t matter what the messaging is. Majority of Americans already agree with them that something needs to be done but you have one side that is completely uncompromising with regards to any sort of gun legislation, but now they have a Supreme Court ready to back them up on striking down any gun law in the country. Responding to other posts too, but I understand that the Left is just a conglomerate of people who don't agree with each other who sometimes end up having to vote for the same person. Issue is, that loosely aligned group also cannot do simple messaging for something like, "why is your aim so bad, you need to shoot 30 rounds before reloading" which pretty much everyone on that side would agree with. You'd save so many lives just from the time it would take the average shooter to reload every 10 shots or whatever. The one weakness the Right has is being shamed for being "weak" in any way, so I think that's literally all we have left to save maybe 20 percent of lives or whatever. All they have is slippery slope arguments for that, but just calling them bad shots is what we have left.
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Jul 4, 2022 22:47
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Both of the recent articles that got posted here about 'maybe hillary is the dem hope in 2024' were from long-time fox news employees. They especially are not from hillary surrogates, which I don't think even exist anymore. Now does this mean it is IMPOSSIBLE Hillary would somehow end up the candidate in 2024? I will rule nothing out at this far of a remove given everything that's happened in this bizarre world so far; but I wouldn't bet on it, barring some poo poo like DC being hit by a meteor that takes out most of the established political leadership later tonight.
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Jul 4, 2022 22:48
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Nelson Mandingo posted:Hillary lost to Donald Trump. That alone makes her radioactive. The only people who want her to run again are republicans and former surrogates and I'm amazed she's still paying the second ones to try to generate buzz. Her political career is done. Not only did she lose to Trump but she let her political enemies completely define her and never did anything to challenge those notions. Which Democrat would have a better chance of winning in 2024?
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Jul 4, 2022 23:31
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BIG-DICK-BUTT-gently caress posted:Which Democrat would have a better chance of winning in 2024? A better chance than Clinton? Biden, Pritzker, Mayor Pete, Bernie Sanders, Ron Perlman, Nick Mullen, me, the ghost of George McGovern,
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Jul 4, 2022 23:50
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BIG-DICK-BUTT-gently caress posted:Which Democrat would have a better chance of winning in 2024? A piece of driftwood. But no seriously just about any other democrat. Her name is INFAMOUS, not famous. Are you actually seriously going to bat for Hillary Rodham Clinton in 2022 or is this just an elaborate troll? Because I'd just call it off if it's the latter. There isn't a discussion to be had. She lost to Trump. Her political capital doesn't exist. No body but republicans or Clinton surrogates have any desire to see her in politics.
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Jul 5, 2022 00:01
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Nessus posted:I'm not sure if this is against the rules or something but I went to look up the dude on Wikipedia, and You decided to start your wikipedia citation right after the funniest part, for some reason. quote:In 2000, Ukrainian steel oligarch Victor Pinchuk hired Schoen on a $40,000 per month retainer.[7] In 2004, Schoen introduced Pinchuk to Hillary Clinton.[7] He also did work for the Hillary Clinton presidential campaign, 2008 and later became associated with the People United Means Action movement of disaffected Clinton supporters who refused to support Barack Obama.[8][9] Schoen was a consultant for Jeff Greene in the 2010 Florida Senate election.[10]
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Jul 5, 2022 00:17
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some plague rats posted:A better chance than Clinton? Biden, Pritzker, Mayor Pete, Bernie Sanders, Ron Perlman, Nick Mullen, me, the ghost of George McGovern, Biden - feeble old man. Buttigieg - too inexperienced .. Sanders is too weak, plus she already beat him. Pritzker might have a shot but he’s 5’6” and an unknown quantity when it comes to campaigning Nelson Mandingo posted:A piece of driftwood. But no seriously just about any other democrat. Her name is INFAMOUS, not famous. I don’t see it as going to bat for her, everyone else is just even worse somehow. I honestly think she’s the strongest chance they have to win in 2024, and I haven’t seen much evidence to contradict it. Just lots of subjective feelings from posters ITT — which is ok, but not really in the spirit of D&D
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Jul 5, 2022 00:18
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 From here: https://news.gallup.com/poll/243242/snapshot-hillary-clinton-favorable-rating-low.aspx If someone has polling that contradicts this, I’d love to see it, but all available evidence is that Hillary is still popular among Democrats. Mods hate me for it, but “nobody likes Hillary” just isn’t based in reality. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 5, 2022 00:19
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BIG-DICK-BUTT-gently caress posted:Biden - feeble old man. Buttigieg - too inexperienced .. Sanders is too weak, plus she already beat him. Pritzker might have a shot but he’s 5’6” and an unknown quantity when it comes to campaigning Pritzker might be 5'6" tall but he's 6'4" across. That's absolutely presidential.
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Jul 5, 2022 00:26
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Nix Panicus posted:You decided to start your wikipedia citation right after the funniest part, for some reason. Like a Fox News career 
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Jul 5, 2022 00:30
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some plague rats posted:Pritzker might be 5'6" tall but he's 6'4" across. That's absolutely presidential. How does he compare to Taft?
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Jul 5, 2022 00:31
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Ah yes, 36% of americans who associate a positive favorability rating of Clinton in 2018 certainly are the herald of her upcoming ascendancy. Let us carefully ignore the 63% who despise her. There is a reason why there isn't a poll in 2022. Because she's irrelevant. So I'm gonna give a preview of what happens at the first debate. Hillary Clinton decides to run in 2024. She scrapes together something of a campaign, she manages to eek out just enough to come to the debates through begging, borrowing, stealing. It's the big night. Meanwhile every other campaign is desperate for this moment, but are furiously fighting each other behind the scenes to let Clinton answer first, and then speak next. It's a full on inter-party war over this. Why? Because the first thing that comes out of the first halfway smart candidate (or his team's prep) mouth is something like "You lost to Donald Trump, your arrogance, your inability to lead a campaign, and politics is part of the reason why we're where we are in the first place." Everyone running has been honing, chomping at the bit for a brutal attack and clickbait moment against her. And that's it. That's it for her campaign. Maybe she manages to stay in the polls just enough to be in the next debate. But she won't be in the third one. And that, is why Clinton shouldn't run. Besides the having bad politics thing.
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Jul 5, 2022 00:32
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Saint Celestine posted:How does he compare to Taft? It's a different era, we've got fat guys now who would have been physically impossible in Taft's day. Back then a freakshow fat guy was like 250 pounds
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Jul 5, 2022 00:41
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some plague rats posted:It's a different era, we've got fat guys now who would have been physically impossible in Taft's day. Back then a freakshow fat guy was like 250 pounds statins are basically PEDs in this regard
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Jul 5, 2022 00:49
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BIG-DICK-BUTT-gently caress posted:
Two fox news guys and you are literally the only people making a case for hillary.
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Jul 5, 2022 00:52
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BIG-DICK-BUTT-gently caress posted:
If she’s so popular, why are fox news employees the only people saying so?
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Jul 5, 2022 00:55
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BIG-DICK-BUTT-gently caress posted:Mods hate me for it, but “nobody likes Hillary” just isn’t based in reality. I don't hate anyone except for this jerk below, very rude Nessus posted:my aging herbivore eyes
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Jul 5, 2022 00:56
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Fighting Trousers posted:The problem is that in Gunworld, mass shootings are like tornadoes and earthquakes - unfortunate, but just part of the natural order of things. Tide goes in, tide goes out, people get shot, you can't explain that.
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Jul 5, 2022 00:56
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Fritz the Horse posted:I don't hate anyone except for this jerk below, very rude I imagine the nominee is going to be Biden unless he has a health event because being the incumbent president is pretty valuable. At this stage I have no idea how he will do, any fuckery from the courts or state legislatures, or even his opponent other than that Donald Trump is pretty likely. In eighteen months we will know much more about all this poo poo
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Jul 5, 2022 01:04
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to post somewhat more seriously, the Highland Park shooter was just arrested and apparently he's a 4channer, Trump rally attendee, some probably neo-nazi stuff, also a Spotify rapper edit: these are not great sources and as always, stuff is not very reliable early in a mass shooting but https://twitter.com/gregoryh325/status/1544085384618975239?s=20&t=wv4CeKnzSYp1U6_MBGC83Q  https://twitter.com/benjerrie/status/1544097072907014145?s=21&t=YNoPU0ztCY3ywJZqJRY2qg also music video about a school shooting Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Jul 5, 2022 |
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Jul 5, 2022 01:06
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Fritz the Horse posted:I don't hate anyone except for this jerk below, very rude Have some pity, they're trapped in the Larry Niven universe
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Jul 5, 2022 01:07
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AP bulletin says they have captured the guy who shot 34 people at the 4th of July parade in Chicago. Robert Crimo III. 22-year old white male. Motive unknown. He lives with his parents and just went home to hang out after the shooting. He was found and apprehended at his house. Police confirmed that the youngest person shot was 8 and the oldest was 84. 6 dead so far, 30 injured, 4 people critically injured, but the other 26 will survive (but, many with serious injuries). Edit: Slightly beaten, but they didn't mention anything about 4chan, Trump, or Spotify at the press conference. I'm assuming he has been internet detective'd since they released his name. Fritz the Horse posted:to post somewhat more seriously, the Highland Park shooter was just arrested and apparently he's a 4channer, Trump rally attendee, some probably neo-nazi stuff, also a Spotify rapper Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Jul 5, 2022 |
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Jul 5, 2022 01:08
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Yeah it's just internet detective stuff so far. It wouldn't surprise me if there's a manifesto or something (do not post it here, thanks). Looks like he was extremely online (4chan/pepe etc stuff).
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Jul 5, 2022 01:12
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He decided to get on the roof of a building and shoot 34 people in a middle class to wealthy suburb of Chicago that is 86% white. So, weird decision if it was a racial hate crime.
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Jul 5, 2022 01:20
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:He decided to get on the roof of a building and shoot 34 people in a middle class to wealthy suburb of Chicago that is 86% white. So, weird decision if it was a racial hate crime. Who knows about the precise motive but he definitely left quite a trail of right wing poo poo online.
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Jul 5, 2022 01:22
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Unormal posted:If you're reading this thread and getting hopelessly freaked out about the future predicted by goons in D&D, just remember that the goons in D&D are not any good at predicting the future. Well, the posts were pretty spot on about the 2016 election.
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Jul 5, 2022 01:33
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:He decided to get on the roof of a building and shoot 34 people in a middle class to wealthy suburb of Chicago that is 86% white. So, weird decision if it was a racial hate crime. It's a suburb well-known for having a large jewish population. Not conclusive, I know.
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Jul 5, 2022 01:38
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:He decided to get on the roof of a building and shoot 34 people in a middle class to wealthy suburb of Chicago that is 86% white. So, weird decision if it was a racial hate crime. His dad apparently ran for mayor of the town in 2019.
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Jul 5, 2022 01:47
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:He decided to get on the roof of a building and shoot 34 people in a middle class to wealthy suburb of Chicago that is 86% white. So, weird decision if it was a racial hate crime. I'm not at all familiar with the area the shooting took place in. But maybe it's a heavily "liberal" area?
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Jul 5, 2022 01:49
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Charliegrs posted:I'm not at all familiar with the area the shooting took place in. But maybe it's a heavily "liberal" area? It is solid blue yes. Very wealthy area too, was founded as a place for Chicago men of industry to have lake houses and grew from there. Significant Jewish population.
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Jul 5, 2022 01:52
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Thomas Hartmann has an interesting thesis on how the SCOTUS upcoming ruling on State Legislatures overruling popular vote (Moore vs. Harper) will play out in 2024. Is this just doom and gloom or a real possibility. https://twitter.com/thom_hartmann/status/1543079225254559744?s=21 1/The Nightmare Scenario SCOTUS is Plotting For the 2024 Election Takeover: 2/ Six Republicans on the Supreme Court just announced — a story that has largely flown under the nation’s political radar — that they’ll consider pre-rigging the presidential election of 2024. 3/ Here’s how one aspect of it could work out, if they go along with the GOP’s arguments that will be before the Court this October: 4/ It’s November, 2024, and the presidential race between Biden and DeSantis has been tabulated by the states and called by the networks. Biden won 84,355,740 votes to DeSantis’ 77,366,412, clearly carrying the popular vote. 5/ But the popular vote isn’t enough: George W. Bush lost to Al Gore by a half-million votes and Donald Trump lost to Hillary Clinton by 3 million votes but both ended up in the White House. What matters is the Electoral College vote, and that looks good for Biden, too. 6/ As CNN is reporting, the outcome is a virtual clone of the 2020 election: Biden carries the same states he did that year and DeSantis gets all the Trump states. 7/ It’s 306 to 232 in the Electoral College, a 74-vote Electoral College lead for Biden, at least as calculated by CNN and the rest of the media. Biden is heading to the White House for another 4 years. 8/ Until the announcement comes out of Georgia. Although Biden won the popular vote in Georgia, their legislature decided it can overrule the popular vote and just awarded the state’s 16 electoral votes to DeSantis instead of Biden. 9/ An hour later we hear from five other states with Republican-controlled legislatures where Biden won the majority of the vote, just like he had in 2020: North Carolina (15 electoral votes), Wisconsin (10), Michigan (16), Pennsylvania (20) and Arizona (11). 10/ Each has followed Georgia’s lead and their legislatures have awarded their Electoral College votes — even though Biden won the popular vote in each state — to DeSantis. 11/ Thus, a total of 88 Electoral College votes from those six states move from Biden to DeSantis, who’s declared the winner and will be sworn in on January 20, 2025. 12/ Wolf Blitzer announces that DeSantis has won the election, and millions of people pour into the streets to protest. They’re met with a hail of bullets as Republican-affiliated militias have been rehearsing for this exact moment. 13/ Just as happened when Pinochet’s militias shot into crowds as he took over Chile, when Mussolini’s volunteer militia the Blackshirts killed civilians as he took over Italy, and Hitler’s Brownshirts did in Germany, their allies among the police and Army refuse to intervene. 14/ After a few thousand people lay dead in the streets of two dozen cities, the police begin to round up the surviving “instigators,” who are charged with seditious conspiracy for resisting the Republican legislatures of their states. 15/ After he’s sworn in on January 20th, President DeSantis points to the ongoing demonstrations, declares a permanent state of emergency, and suspends future elections, just as Trump had repeatedly told the world he planned for 2020. 16/ Sound far fetched? 17/ Six Republicans on the Supreme Court just announced that one of the first cases they’ll decide next year could include whether that very scenario is constitutional or not. And it almost certainly is. 18/ Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution lays out the process clearly, and it doesn’t even once mention the popular vote or the will of the people: 19/ “Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress... 20/ “The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two Persons … which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. 21/ “The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President…” 22/ It’s not particularly ambiguous, even as clarified by the 12th Amendment and the Electoral Count Act of 1887. 23/ Neither mentions the will of the people, although the Electoral Count Act requires each state’s governor to certify the vote before passing it along to Washington, DC. And half of those states have Democratic governors. 24/ Which brings us to the Supreme Court’s probable 2023 decision. As Robert Barnes wrote yesterday for The Washington Post: 25/ “The Supreme Court on Thursday said it will consider what would be a radical change in the way federal elections are conducted, giving state legislatures sole authority… 26/ to set the rules for contests even if their actions violated state constitutions and resulted in extreme partisan gerrymandering for congressional seats.” 27/ While the main issue being debated in Moore v Harper, scheduled for a hearing this October, is a gerrymander that conflicts with North Carolina’s constitution, the issue at the core of the debate is what’s called the “Independent State Legislature Doctrine.” 28/ It literally gives state legislatures the power to pre-rig or simply hand elections to the candidate of their choice. 29/ As NPR notes: 30/ “The independent state legislature theory was first invoked by three conservative U.S. Supreme Court justices in the celebrated Bush v. Gore case that handed the 2000 election victory to George W. Bush. 31/ “In that case, the three cited it to support the selection of a Republican slate of presidential electors.” 32/ Those three were Rehnquist, Scalia, and Clarence Thomas, now the seniormost member of the Court. They wrote in their concurring opinion in Bush v Gore: 33/ “The federal questions that ultimately emerged in this case are not substantial. Article II provides that “[e]ach State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors.” … 34/ “But as we indicated in our remand of the earlier case, in a Presidential election the clearly expressed intent of the legislature must prevail.” 35/ That doctrine — the basis of John Eastman and Donald Trump’s effort to get states to submit multiple slates of electors — asserts that a plain reading of Article II and 36/ the 12th Amendment of the Constitution says that each state’s legislature has final say in which candidate gets their states’ Electoral College vote, governors and the will of the voters be damned. 37/ The Republicans point out that the Constitution says that it’s up to the states — “in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct” — to decide which presidential candidate gets their Electoral College votes. 38/ But the Electoral Count Act requires a governor’s sign-off, and half those states have Democratic governors. Which has precedence, the Constitution or the Act? 39/ If the Supreme Court says it’s the US Constitution rather than the Electoral Count Act, states’ constitutions, state laws, or the votes of their citizens, the scenario outlined above becomes not just possible but very likely. 40/ After all, the Constitution only mentions the states’ legislatures — which are all Republican controlled — so the unwillingness of the Democratic governors of Michigan, North Carolina, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania to sign off on the Electoral College votes becomes moot. 41/ Under this circumstance DeSantis becomes president, the third Republican president in the 21st century, and also the third Republican President to have lost the popular vote election yet ended up in the White House. 42/ This scenario isn’t just plausible: it’s probable. GOP-controlled states are already changing their state laws to allow for it, and 43/ Republican strategists are gaming out which states have Republican legislatures willing to override the votes of their people to win the White House for the Republican candidate. 44/ Those state legislators who still embrace Trump and this theory are getting the support of large pools of rightwing billionaires’ dark money. 45/ As the highly respected conservative Judge J. Michael Luttig recently wrote: 46/ “Trump and the Republicans can only be stopped from stealing the 2024 election at this point if the Supreme Court rejects the independent state legislature doctrine … 47/ “and Congress amends the Electoral Count Act to constrain Congress' own power to reject state electoral votes and decide the presidency.” 48/ I take no satisfaction in having accurately predicted — in March of 2020 — how Trump and his buddies would try to steal the election in January of 2021. Or how the Supreme Court would blow up the Environmental Protection Agency. 49/ Trump’s January 6th effort failed because every contested state had laws on the books requiring all of their Electoral College votes to go to whichever candidate won the popular vote in the state. 50/ That will not be the case in 2024. As we are watching, the Supreme Court — in collaboration with state legislatures through activists like Ginny Thomas — are setting that election up right now in front of us in real time. 51/ We drat well better be planning for this, because it’s likely coming our way in just a bit more than two short years.
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Jul 5, 2022 01:53
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Axetrain posted:Trump pulled off a surprise win when everyone was expecting President Hillary, which is probably why they have latched on to him to such a degree. Being a huge loud rear end in a top hat is a big plus in their eyes. Also like others have pointed out the loser stink isn’t really there since they’ve convinced themselves the election was robbed from him. But...I thought the 2016 election was rigged too? Or did the democrats just lose so badly that all the fraud didn't matter? Also, when we were rigging the 2020, how come we forgot to rig the Senate and the House? Seems like a huge fuckup there if we're going to commit all this Soros fraud. E On what planet is Hillary Clinton a "change" candidate besides being a woman and not being Joe Biden? Come the gently caress on. Also, some of these probes being handed down lately are really loving weird and arbitrary to me. Makes me hesitant to post anything. BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Jul 5, 2022 |
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