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PT6A posted:It's not the hill I particularly care about one way or the other, but suspiciously a bunch of complete loving nuts seem to have seized on it as a cause. I suspect I'm probably on the right side of this, since I'm on the side that's firmly against cults, child abuse, and the OKC bombing. PT6A posted:They spent near enough two months trying to bring things to a peaceful end. Who would've guessed that the child abusing mental patient cared nothing about the lives of those around him? How is that the ATF's fault? Sure is the hill you've picked to die on. infernal machines posted:My mother joined a cult after I was born, but while I was still a child, not sure where I fall here. i'm sorry but we have to terminate you for that Argas fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Jul 5, 2022 |
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Jul 5, 2022 01:11
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PT6A posted:It's not the hill I particularly care about one way or the other, but suspiciously a bunch of complete loving nuts seem to have seized on it as a cause. It doesn't logically follow that because reactionaries took advantage of the government's activities at Waco, the government's activities were therefore justified. It'd be similar to claiming that because numerous anti-Semites and racists like David Duke and Pat Buchanan opposed the Iraq War, this means the war was actually good.
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Jul 5, 2022 01:49
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A stopped clock is right twice a day, but if you have reason to suspect a clock is stopped, it's a very reasonable assumption to assume it's simply wrong at any given time. Just as the ends don't justify the means, the ends do not necessarily condemn the means when things go badly. Yes, of course it's bad that anyone died, and I think there's room to consider if those deaths could have been avoided; that being said, the responsibility for the deaths lies solely with the lunatic cultists even if the government could have done a better job in retrospect. This was a heavily armed compound full of apocalyptic weirdos. I think it's much easier to say in retrospect that things could've been handled better, then to say at the time, not knowing what those whackos might do, "yeah, let them be, she'll be right."
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Jul 5, 2022 01:58
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Why can't more cults be like Heaven's Gate, they have a snazzy website, got people into astronomy, and no kids died. A+ as far as cults go.
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Jul 5, 2022 02:02
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Trapick posted:Why can't more cults be like Heaven's Gate, they have a snazzy website, got people into astronomy, and no kids died. A+ as far as cults go. As far as cults go, yes. Ultimately I'd prefer people get treated for severe mental illness rather than cutting their bollocks off and offing themselves to catch a ride on a comet, but, it's better than Jim Jones or David Koresh by quite a bit.
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Jul 5, 2022 02:04
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The important thing is they all didn't have to pay taxes.
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Jul 5, 2022 02:06
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The Waco miniseries that you can't find on Netflix anymore was pretty good. Taylor Kitsch plays a drat creepy Koresh, and the rest of the cast is stacked; Everyone's Stepdad Michael Shannon also steals the show.
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Jul 5, 2022 02:14
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My work lets me work from home but they've moved to a "minimum one day at the office" and want to ramp up to two days minimum come September. I'm side eye'ing management as I strongly suspect they'd like to make being at the office mandatory for everyday if they felt they could get away with it. But yeah its been pretty fortunate for me that generally I have the option to stay home most of the time.
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Jul 5, 2022 02:54
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Aces High posted:I suppose it is good that no children were "harmed" by government forces during the Ottawa occupation, despite them effectively also being used as human shields. You can imagine it's real and that's pretty much the same thing
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Jul 5, 2022 03:32
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Trapick posted:Why can't more cults be like Heaven's Gate, they have a snazzy website, got people into astronomy, and no kids died. A+ as far as cults go. Don't forget also they all got matching Nike sneakers. Product placement!
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Jul 5, 2022 03:39
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Have y'all met PT6A?
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Jul 5, 2022 03:48
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Im almost afraid to ask but has Canada ever had any of those super creepy/dangerous cults? Its weird that I dont know the answer to that.
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Jul 5, 2022 04:06
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Furnaceface posted:Im almost afraid to ask but has Canada ever had any of those super creepy/dangerous cults? Some Doukhobor sects have been a bit odd, and there used to be a lot of arsons in the south east of BC from it. Don’t know about anything actually scary though.
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Jul 5, 2022 04:15
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One time some guy had a standoff about Waco in the CanPol thread, but the cops never showed up so it just kind of fizzled out.
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Jul 5, 2022 04:19
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I don't know if they're dangerous but the Raelians have a strong foothold in Quebec iirc
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Jul 5, 2022 04:46
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Furnaceface posted:Im almost afraid to ask but has Canada ever had any of those super creepy/dangerous cults? Does FLDS in Bountiful count? Not really a Made in Canada thing.
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Jul 5, 2022 04:47
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This one partially happened in Quebec https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Solar_Temple
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Jul 5, 2022 04:57
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BC has some old school Mormon areas, and by old school I mean polygamists. They used to at least. Haven't heard about Bountiful, BC in a long time.
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Jul 5, 2022 05:24
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Alctel posted:Yeah it's basically all run by the same loving people I wondered if it might be something like that when it came out that they were 22 and had no criminal record. The bank robbery was bizarre, like a movie, probably because movies were all they had. Thinking they must have had some masterplan to do it that way. Nope, they just didn't know what the gently caress they were doing.
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Jul 5, 2022 05:56
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Madkal posted:BC has some old school Mormon areas, and by old school I mean polygamists. They used to at least. Haven't heard about Bountiful, BC in a long time. They’re still around as far as I’m aware. After the polygamy charges against a couple of the leaders in the mid-2010’s, which the government could barely sentence house arrest for after they were convicted, there were a couple more arrests after two of the family tried to transport an underage girl into the US to be married. They each got a couple of years for that. And that was pretty much it because basically no one from Bountiful wanted to testify against it. Best I can hope for is they’re keeping on eye on any children moving in and out of there.
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Jul 5, 2022 08:06
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Furnaceface posted:Im almost afraid to ask but has Canada ever had any of those super creepy/dangerous cults? How about Brother XII in BC? This wiki page has some info on him but this Reddit post has more. Reddit posted:In the late-1920s, The Aquarian Foundation developed a colony just south of Nanaimo. Their leader, a frail-looking, scraggly bearded Englishman, is the reincarnation of Brother XII of the Great White Brotherhood. For nearly a decade, Brother XII grew the small colony to a fortress to protect his followers from the uncertainty of the post-war world. The cult’s influence wasn’t limited to Nanaimo, globally thousands of followers contributed to the Aquarian Foundation adhering to the three truths: Work, Order, and Obedience to Brother XII.
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Jul 5, 2022 08:23
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Furnaceface posted:Im almost afraid to ask but has Canada ever had any of those super creepy/dangerous cults? Well, there's the big one that abducted a bunch of kids to brainwash them into believing in a magical jew. We're still finding the graves from that.
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Jul 5, 2022 08:46
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Important news everyone: https://ottawacitizen.com/news/nati...to-the-internet Please make sure not to post about how JTF2 uses the SIG SAUER P320 pistol. Because the fact they use the P320 made by SIG SAUER is now a state secret. You know, ever since one of them accidentally shot themselves with it. And their leadership decided to make it a secret, not withstanding the publicly available documents about the procurement of SIG SAUER pistols and specifically the P320. Also apparently members of JTF2 were part of the freedom convoy and have been identified as part of the virulently anti-Trudeau crowd. But since membership in JTF2 is secret, you'll never know which of that crowd is actually highly trained and provided access to advance weapons by the Canadian military.
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Jul 5, 2022 11:00
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Furnaceface posted:Im almost afraid to ask but has Canada ever had any of those super creepy/dangerous cults? The Ant Hill Kids were real hosed up.
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Jul 5, 2022 11:47
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Arivia posted:The Ant Hill Kids were real hosed up.
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Jul 5, 2022 12:33
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Furnaceface posted:Im almost afraid to ask but has Canada ever had any of those super creepy/dangerous cults? I mean, we have the Catholic Church. It’s pretty entrenched
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Jul 5, 2022 13:09
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The federal NDP candidate for Davenport wrote an op-ed on populism in Spacing, I'm not entirely clear why.
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Jul 5, 2022 13:13
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TheCenturion posted:I mean, we have the Catholic Church. It’s pretty entrenched oh you think that's nuts wait till you hear about the spinoffs, those get really wild
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Jul 5, 2022 13:24
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Furnaceface posted:Im almost afraid to ask but has Canada ever had any of those super creepy/dangerous cults? There was this one too in Québec https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roch_Th%C3%A9riault quote:Over time, Thériault's punishments became increasingly extreme and violent, including making members break their own legs with sledgehammers, sit on lit stoves, shoot each other in the shoulders, and eat dead mice and feces. A follower would sometimes be asked to cut off another follower's toes with wire cutters to prove loyalty. The abuse extended to the cult's children, who were sexually abused, held over fires, or nailed to trees while other children threw stones at them. One of Thériault's wives left a newborn child, Eleazar Lavallée, outside to die in freezing temperatures to keep him away from the abuse. Thériault attempted to backtrack to the original religious mission of the commune, beginning to strongly believe in purifying his followers and ridding them of their sins through abusive purification sessions where the members would be completely nude as he whipped and beat them. Thériault claimed to be a holy being, and started performing unnecessary amateur surgical operations on sick members to demonstrate his healing powers. These "surgeries" included injecting a 94% ethanol solution into stomachs, or performing circumcisions on the children and adults of the group. In 1987, social workers removed 17 of the children from the commune. However, Thériault faced no repercussions for his abusive acts.
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Jul 5, 2022 13:48
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Fundamentally, the issue is that religion or anything that can be claimed as religion, is a privileged form of lunacy. If you claim you hear voices, call them God, because then you're a prophet, not a crazy person. Doesn't matter what those voices tell you to do, either, really -- the behavioral standards of "prophethood" are exceptionally loose. But just tell everyone "God told you" and a bunch of idiots who presumably mean well will advocate that you be left alone to do any number of unspeakable things. From the cults already under discussion in the US, to the Pawlowskis in Calgary, to the weirdos in Ontario ranting about masks and churches, to the literal child molesters in Bountiful, you really have to screw up to get any kind of attention from the authorities once "God tells you" to do something. Because heaven forfend we call religion/cults what they are: magical thinking and mental illness.
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Jul 5, 2022 13:49
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PT6A posted:Fundamentally, the issue is that religion or anything that can be claimed as religion, is a privileged form of lunacy. If you claim you hear voices, call them God, because then you're a prophet, not a crazy person. Doesn't matter what those voices tell you to do, either, really -- the behavioral standards of "prophethood" are exceptionally loose. But just tell everyone "God told you" and a bunch of idiots who presumably mean well will advocate that you be left alone to do any number of unspeakable things. I agreed with you for 9/10ths of this post and wow you blew it at the end. As someone with major mental illness issues there’s a huge gulf between depression and going to church.
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Jul 5, 2022 14:00
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Indeed, it would be more accurate to say it's magical thinking and/or mental illness. But the point being: if you hear "prophecy" and act on it, that's illness. If you did not ascribe it to a higher power, people would say "oh, you hear voices. Please seek treatment, that can be distressing and dangerous." Prophecy is simply a particularly popular and socially privileged version of hallucination.
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Jul 5, 2022 14:11
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I prophesize PT6A is probably going to eat a probe before this derail is over. Who wants to join my cult?
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Jul 5, 2022 14:19
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PT6A posted:Indeed, it would be more accurate to say it's magical thinking and/or mental illness. But the point being: if you hear "prophecy" and act on it, that's illness. If you did not ascribe it to a higher power, people would say "oh, you hear voices. Please seek treatment, that can be distressing and dangerous." Say you can stare into a hat with a rock in it and transcribe unseen texts into English to tell a story about seafaring Jews whose deaths predated the invention of the compass traveled to the midwest and you too can be.... uh... ok bad example
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Jul 5, 2022 14:54
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flakeloaf posted:Say you can stare into a hat with a rock in it and transcribe unseen texts into English to tell a story about seafaring Jews whose deaths predated the invention of the compass traveled to the midwest and you too can be.... uh... ok bad example One of the points the author makes in Under the Banner of Heaven is that Mormonism probably didn't have an exceptionally weird start. It just happened recently enough and with sufficiently widespread technology that a lot more documents and varied testimony exists today. May be obvious, but I hadn't really considered it before.
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Jul 5, 2022 15:05
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Why can't I find a used bookstore that actually accepts donations of used books?flakeloaf posted:Say you can stare into a hat with a rock in it and transcribe unseen texts into English to tell a story about seafaring Jews whose deaths predated the invention of the compass traveled to the midwest and you too can be.... uh... ok bad example Tbf I don't think you'd need a compass to navigate to the Americas, its believed a variety of civilizations managed to do so by navigating by the stars iirc.
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Jul 5, 2022 15:16
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Furnaceface posted:Im almost afraid to ask but has Canada ever had any of those super creepy/dangerous cults? Most of rural Manitoba is arguably a cult.
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Jul 5, 2022 15:45
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Maneck posted:Also apparently members of JTF2 were part of the freedom convoy and have been identified as part of the virulently anti-Trudeau crowd. But since membership in JTF2 is secret, you'll never know which of that crowd is actually highly trained and provided access to advance weapons by the Canadian military. I hear insubordination is a great quality for employment in our special forces. Edit: oh, I forgot that original article mentioned they were in the process of being released mom and dad fight a lot fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Jul 5, 2022 |
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Jul 5, 2022 16:54
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"Light treason"
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Jul 5, 2022 16:55
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pokeyman posted:One of the points the author makes in Under the Banner of Heaven is that Mormonism probably didn't have an exceptionally weird start. It just happened recently enough and with sufficiently widespread technology that a lot more documents and varied testimony exists today. For all my  on the subject, neither had I.I've decided that this means, some 300 years from now, a new movement will spring up based on stories of the miracles performed by Bill Brasky
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Jul 5, 2022 16:57
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