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One note about Stormblood job quests: this is about where the sheer number of jobs, each having their own story, began to wear on the dev team. Thus, each job has one less quest in the Stormblood levels (60,63,65,68,70). Jobs added in Stormblood (i.e. SAM and RDM) have a full set of quests and similar job quest requirements in the Heavensward levels though, just for parity. Also, only the level 70 skill is tied to completing the quest. All other Stormblood buttons and traits are learned the moment you hit their level.
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Jul 5, 2022 03:36
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| # ? Jun 11, 2024 12:22 |
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marauder was the class i leveled with back when i was going through ARR MSQ, and so the only part i remembered at all was hitting a big rock with my axe it's still the class/job i always do MSQ as. my warrior of light is a warrior of light.
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Jul 5, 2022 03:46
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Marauder job quests are definitely one of my least favourite ones, too. Like you said, it's just kind of... Empty. "Get strong, fight monsters, break rocks." I always wonder what correlation there is between people who give up in ARR and people who pick some of the worst early classes, be it story or gameplay or both. Imagine someone's first class being Red Mage or Samurai, or even Dark Knight. A hell of a better introduction. Though obviously I know the entire point of them is that you start at a higher level when you're already an experienced WoL so it wouldn't work. Either way, there should be some sort of "combat sim" where you could step in and play a class at a temporary high/max level to see how it feels. Good to know that your class eventually will be cool. Halls of the Novice Mark II. Halls of the Veteran. Or something.
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Jul 5, 2022 03:49
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Sanguinia posted:Alphi had similarly alluded to the Captain’s true identity earlier in the conversation, but Tataru was so direct and ruthless in her intent to blackmail him that the guy can’t help but laugh out loud even as he bends to her will. Our cute little secretary has grown some teeth since she started hanging around with all those merchant types. Tataru has grown powerful, it is only a matter of time before she is unstoppable.
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Jul 5, 2022 03:58
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I remember my friend who started as an Archer gave up pretty quickly, despite my assurances that he could change to a class that was Not Archer.
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Jul 5, 2022 04:11
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Rythian posted:Either way, there should be some sort of "combat sim" where you could step in and play a class at a temporary high/max level to see how it feels. Good to know that your class eventually will be cool. Halls of the Novice Mark II. Halls of the Veteran. Or something. Well the thing is that there kinda is that. If you level Palace of the Dead to floor 51 you can play any class (almost) at level 60. If you levelHeaven on High you can see a class at level 70, then if you're level 71 you can to go Bozja and check out jobs at 80. There's not one thing but there are many things. Edit: oh crap I forgot you need to beat Shadowbringers for the last one. Kwyndig fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Jul 5, 2022 |
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Jul 5, 2022 04:28
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quote:On the one hand, this is a bit boring. On the other, it makes learning Tank Basics extremely easy, which I greatly appreciate as an MMO player. All respect to healers and the fact that they are inevitably targets for toxicity, but I’ve always found Tank to be the most stressful role. Not only are you opening yourself up to a potentially similar level of grief from your fellow players if you make a mistake or fail to progress at the pace they want, but you’re also placing your fate in those other players’ hands. You rely on the healer and DPS to keep you alive while doing your job as much as your efforts, and that’s not always easy mentally when you factor in that potential for an adversarial relationship. Lowering the barrier of entry to Tanking by making the foundational design simple, intuitive, and more universal than any other role was a wise move on Square’s part. The conversation comes around in the main FF14 threads every once in a while, it's interesting how different roles are different levels of stressful to people. Tanxiety is rather common for newbies (also because the tank's expected to set the pace which can be weird first time in a dungeon) but a lot of people get over it quickly the first time they overpull and the world doesn't end (thanks, FF14 community) but for some folks still find it incredibly stressful. Same for healers (I'm one of them, I flat-out cannot heal dungeons without finding it almost paralyzing). There's even some folks who find DPS almost impossible to do, their desire to hold up their end of things turns into putting effort into minmaxing damage far beyond what they actually want.
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Jul 5, 2022 04:35
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Feels like a bitter irony that the class story that's all about maintaining your momentum kinda runs out of it before the end. 
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Jul 5, 2022 04:37
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W.T. Fits posted:Feels like a bitter irony that the class story that's all about maintaining your momentum kinda runs out of it before the end. It forgot to turn Stance on. Happens to the best of us.
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Jul 5, 2022 04:39
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Bruceski posted:The conversation comes around in the main FF14 threads every once in a while, it's interesting how different roles are different levels of stressful to people. Tanxiety is rather common for newbies (also because the tank's expected to set the pace which can be weird first time in a dungeon) but a lot of people get over it quickly the first time they overpull and the world doesn't end (thanks, FF14 community) but for some folks still find it incredibly stressful. Same for healers (I'm one of them, I flat-out cannot heal dungeons without finding it almost paralyzing). There's even some folks who find DPS almost impossible to do, their desire to hold up their end of things turns into putting effort into minmaxing damage far beyond what they actually want. I'm a little bit different in that regard, but for me it's more a matter of how my attention is split. While I'm healing, I generally don't have to stare at my hotbars all that much since I can just spam my basic attack and keep an eye on the DoT timer. I play SCH enough that I have my button layout all but memorized and have a feel for how many healing resources I have on hand. For DPS, I have a bad habit of staring at my bars to keep track of cooldowns, though I'm getting better at this since I did some subbing as a SAM for current tier Savage. And honestly, I play healer not because it's less stressful for me or anything like that. I heal because seeing the mentor WHM spam Cure I in a StB or later dungeon and never throw rocks makes me more mad than a tank taking things slow every now and again. :P
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Jul 5, 2022 04:47
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Honestly my tankxiety was way worse in ARR where it seemed considerably easier to get lost, because it is extremely easy for me to get lost in video games. After that the dungeons become more linear and I got confident enough to do dungeon roulettes instead of just queuing into trials.
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Jul 5, 2022 04:48
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That makes me angry too  THROW A GOD-DAMNED ROCK.
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Jul 5, 2022 04:49
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Marauder quests are kind of ehhhh, and the Warrior quests were an improvement (take that as you will). Warrior, is however, my hands down favorite of the tanks. 
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Jul 5, 2022 04:50
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Ran Rannerson posted:Honestly my tankxiety was way worse in ARR where it seemed considerably easier to get lost, because it is extremely easy for me to get lost in video games. After that the dungeons become more linear and I got confident enough to do dungeon roulettes instead of just queuing into trials. ARR dungeons are poorly laid out, later dungeons are built on the single corridor model, it's almost impossible to get lost in a HW or later dungeons. Edit: But I have to admit after a party wipe I sometimes forget which way is forward. Kwyndig fucked around with this message at 06:56 on Jul 5, 2022 |
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Jul 5, 2022 04:50
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To be sure I thought the shift from Ala Migho to the Far East was an abrupt one. I don’t think it’s a bad move for Lyse, specifically, like I actually think her journey in this expansion works well from a character perspective. I kinda miss lovable doofus Yda but the shift is well executed- she isn’t suddenly super competent, she’s a little out of her element even. I played this as Warrior so yeah Zenos wasn’t a frustrating instance until the part where you’re meant to lose. Granted when he does unleash it feels like he has some kind of unforetold power but no, his numbers are just big
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Jul 5, 2022 04:55
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Marauder quests aren't great, but the quest where you fight the whole guild in disguise is pretty amazing, so I don't hate them too much.
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Jul 5, 2022 05:05
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I like most job/class quests, a few of them are not good like lancer and archer but their job quests redeem them, except hw paladin but you've already gone over that.
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Jul 5, 2022 05:08
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Sanguinia posted:When every other job quest at least tries to be a complicated or dramatic story as part of the game making the jobs and the fact that you can do as many of them as you want a front-and-center point to its very identity, I found it to be a pretty huge letdown, But THAT is the Maurader way. No thought, no planning, no complication. You're a whirlwind of Strength and steel, your path is to carve straight and true no matter what. That's part of the class fantasy. You're not complicated, you're not dramatic, you're a butcher's blade. Well worn, reliable, devastating and simple. Warrior expands on this in a way by making it more simple even if they still make them more complicated.
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Jul 5, 2022 05:52
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I am going to have some things to say about the Warrior quests, boy howdy. The job itself though? Fantastic. I've always played Paladin as my tank, but in late Shadowbringers and through into Endwalker, Warrior has easily taken that spot.
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Jul 5, 2022 06:07
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does Kheris have any plans to study the blade?
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Jul 5, 2022 06:21
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:But THAT is the Maurader way. No thought, no planning, no complication. You're a whirlwind of Strength and steel, your path is to carve straight and true no matter what. That's part of the class fantasy. You're not complicated, you're not dramatic, you're a butcher's blade. Well worn, reliable, devastating and simple. Warrior expands on this in a way by making it more simple even if they still make them more complicated. I respect the hustle of this argument, but I don't think it holds water given the actual content of the quests. The guildmaster is such a melodrama queen that he decides that he's going to stake his entire reputation on being able to train one Marauder to beat a dangerous beast for very little reason. They included a character whose entire narrative purpose is to be a straight woman to his antics and point out how silly he is. The fact that you're taking a deliberate, controlled and planned approach to increasing your strength to meet the foe is a significant plot point, which runs counter to the idea that part of the fantasy is that you're an uncomplicated killing machine. You could argue it's meant to be expressing the notion of "momentum," as something like an avalanche, something which starts small and slowly builds into an unstoppable force. But then why introduce the element of revenge as a motivator and also show why combining a desire for revenge with a gradual form of training is potentially dangerous if you lack discipline and then fail to actually confront that point you illustrated in the text? Frankly, by the end, the whole concept of "momentum," as a theme ends up being kind of all over the place. Rather than being Conan Simple the whole scenario ends up being kind of pointlessly convoluted because the philosophy directing your path clearly exists but is ill-defined. The markers you pass on the road end up contradicting themselves when they didn't really need to. I think the writer for these quests just kind of lost the thread on what they were going for by the end. Lazy Fair posted:does Kheris have any plans to study the blade? Guess you'll find out, won't you :3
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Jul 5, 2022 06:37
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Just how long did you make those Scions wait on that pier?!? Alisae is going to have words with you. 
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Jul 5, 2022 06:47
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I would've preferred an actual Primal Kujata as opposed to just a random pissed off buffalo, but oh well. I genuinely struggle to remember anything about the Marauder quests when I think back on them aside from the portion where everyone is poorly disguised.
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Jul 5, 2022 06:54
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Also, just for the heck of it, some roegadyn name translations: Solkwyb - Salt Wife Broenbhar - Brown Bear I think Wyrnzoen is supposed to be "Snake Tongue," but it's missing a 'g' at the end.
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Jul 5, 2022 07:03
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Leraika posted:I remember my friend who started as an Archer gave up pretty quickly, despite my assurances that he could change to a class that was Not Archer. My two favorite weapons are bows and spears, so the first time I started FFXIV I picked either archer or lancer, planning to go into the other since they start in the same city. Unfortunately their quests suck and Gridania sucks, so I bounced off hard. The next time I tried I started in Limsa, and enjoyed it much more, though I think Ul’dah is ultimately the best ARR start.
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Jul 5, 2022 07:07
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Sunday Morning posted:Just how long did you make those Scions wait on that pier?!? Alisae is going to have words with you. Fun fact, in the 1800s a spice or tea trader going from China back to Europe before the Suez Canal was built could expect to be at sea for around 100 days. Considering the scale of our voyage, I assumed Kheris probably had at least 2-3 weeks of downtime so supplies could be gathered, crew prepared, etc. Besides, Alisae can freakin' wait and be happy about it, we almost didn't get a boat because of her! 
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Jul 5, 2022 07:16
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W.T. Fits posted:I think Wyrnzoen is supposed to be "Snake Tongue," but it's missing a 'g' at the end.
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Jul 5, 2022 07:36
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One of the really neat things about starting in Ul'dah is the flow of the initial sidequests in the city. If you follow them all the way through, they will send you on an almost perfect route through the city that hits every job guild and every aethernet node while weaving with Momodi's initial "Go to these places" MSQ and letting you pick up every sidequest that takes you outside the city. Conversely, Limsa and Gridania just kind of bounce you all over and Gridania especially requires you to go out of your way to complete the aethernet.
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Jul 5, 2022 07:43
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One amusing thing I've observed is that despite Alphinaud having the reputation of being the stuck-up one, he's far more willing to work with others, while Alisaie is far more judgemental. While this means she's less likely to put up with bullshit, it also means she comes off as really bratty at times. Alphinaud gets dunked on a lot because his big failures are well documented, and has led to him becoming far more humble, though still a bit pretentious. I love Alisaie, but I feel like she could use a few dunks as well.
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Jul 5, 2022 07:45
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Sanguinia posted:Guess you'll find out, won't you :3 
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Jul 5, 2022 08:32
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We need an NPC that clonks Alisaie and Alphinaud's heads together like The Three Stooges whenever they get out of line. Sadly, Y'shtola is indisposed and Tataru is too short.
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Jul 5, 2022 08:36
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I love the dudes coming out to make you fight the Mysterious Axe Squad If nothing else, that shows you what level this story is operating on
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Jul 5, 2022 09:05
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Kwyndig posted:ARR dungeons are poorly laid out, later dungeons are built on the single corridor model, it's almost impossible to get lost in a HW or later dungeons. I have this problem with boss arenas - if there's a mechanic that turns the boss you have to remember how many times it's flipped over the course of the fight (no, shut up, I will not rotate the boss back to where he started facing, that's bad tanking, and for things like the book boss on Gubal you can't even do that). Usually you can just run past the treasure chest to proceed, but then you hit Castrum and ARF which don't have any chests... Also the fact that generally they're good about starting you on the south side of the map and heading generally north makes the few dungeons where you head south instead for some reason even trollier. jalapeno_dude fucked around with this message at 09:12 on Jul 5, 2022 |
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Jul 5, 2022 09:10
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wokow6 posted:One amusing thing I've observed is that despite Alphinaud having the reputation of being the stuck-up one, he's far more willing to work with others, while Alisaie is far more judgemental. While this means she's less likely to put up with bullshit, it also means she comes off as really bratty at times. I think a big factor in Alphinaud getting more dunks on him (beyond simple screentime - Alisaie barely existed outside of Binding Coils until Ga Bu) is that he tends to set up his own failures through shortsightedness and/or absent-mindedness - The Crystal Braves is the obvious point of hubris, but there's things like not wearing sensible clothes in the cold, telling Y'shtola he won't forget the sight of her coming out of the Lifestream, and such that allow for levity in his mistakes and lead him to humility in response. Meanwhile Alisaie's failings tend to be outside of her control other than being in a situation where her own strength isn't enough - getting wounded by the Warriors of Darkness, needing Alphinaud's help in Binding Coils, what transpired in the short story - or something like this where she's not entirely wrong in her reservations but she's picking a bad time to voice them. She could be shamed for it, though it'd be rather more dramatic than comedic, and anyway her responses to her failings are generally going her own way, pushing herself harder to do better, and/or waiting for a chance to prove herself again. For her personality, opportunities for comedic embarrassment tend to come from being caught outside her comfort zone by close friends and relations, but she hasn't really had anyone to do that for her in the way that Krile immediately deflated Alphinaud upon arrival. All that aside, the best bit of incidental dialogue at that part in Limsa: Alphinaud posted:Suddenly, all those hours Tataru passed cavorting and capering at the Forgotten Knight seem rather better spent, do they not? Raubahn posted:If there is truth in the rumors, this is not the first time Zenos has “spared” his foes. They say he abides by an unusual code, and takes pleasure in the fight. Whatever his reasons, we must use this time to our advantage.
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Jul 5, 2022 09:15
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Zenos has a Plan, it just so happens that the first part of it is kicking your rear end.
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Jul 5, 2022 10:00
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Ah, the Marauder quests. Hit this rock, now hit more rocks, now kill this cow. Bam you've successfully learned to Axe.
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Jul 5, 2022 10:11
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Just like real life
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Jul 5, 2022 10:52
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I agree that the marauder quests are some of the weakest class quests (other than Masked Guildies brawl, that part is great). It is, however, a necessary first step on the path to a Warrior's Enlightenment.* * being very, very angry Back before Shadowbringers and the introduction of the Firmament, I believe this part of the MSQ was the first overt in-game reference to Carvallain's background. Tataru has become terrifying.
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Jul 5, 2022 13:33
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:We need an NPC that clonks Alisaie and Alphinaud's heads together like The Three Stooges whenever they get out of line. tataru can stand on a chair
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Jul 5, 2022 13:46
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| # ? Jun 11, 2024 12:22 |
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Going back to the tanking discussion, one of the things about tanks being very similar in low level is that part of this is the unifying of classes once cross-class skills were removed, and part of this was an intentional simplifying of tank combos and tank stances over the years. Also, to a certain extent, tanks struggle a bit more to differentiate themselves at lower levels simply by the design of the game. Unlike healers (who are divided into two broad typings), tanks are just tanks with no sub-divisions, which means there is more crowding for the same category. They are also a bit more self-buff dependent than DPS classes and there will always be certain self-buffs that a tank will need (whereas they can't complicate the DPS rotation too much until more tools later). You can see this with how crowded their Role Action page is compared to other jobs/roles. There's really not that many ways you can make interesting variations of Rampart or Arm's Length, for example.
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Jul 5, 2022 14:40
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