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They should leave subsidies for families that have active duty soldiers, or for businesses that provided one contract soldier for X MWh per month. Or maybe I shouldn't give Kremlin ideas..
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Jul 4, 2022 15:16
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I am suprised, russia hss plenty of coal, gas nucular plants and oil. Keeping the power on should not be a concern.
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Jul 4, 2022 20:13
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https://www.lrt.lt/en/news-in-english/19/1731341/minister-insists-lithuania-won-t-change-migrant-policies-despite-clash-with-eu-law I remember reading something about Poland and Lithuania homogenising their politics once upon a time.
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Jul 4, 2022 21:32
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https://neatkariga.nra.lv/intervijas/385461-artis-pabriks-tas-ir-krievu-intereses-zaudet-kara-pret-ukrainu Apparently we are announcing return to (semi-)mandatory military service on Tuesday, it seems. Details unclear yet, but it seems that the absolute minimum someone will have to do is either 6-month basic training, or joining the national guard.
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Jul 5, 2022 11:12
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Pabriks just dropped it on Twitter too. I'm a little excited to see what the discourse is going to look like.
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Jul 5, 2022 14:56
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cinci zoo sniper posted:https://neatkariga.nra.lv/intervijas/385461-artis-pabriks-tas-ir-krievu-intereses-zaudet-kara-pret-ukrainu Hoping to get it in front of Saeima in the next couple months...wonder what support it'll get right before the election.
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Jul 5, 2022 15:29
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cinci zoo sniper posted:https://neatkariga.nra.lv/intervijas/385461-artis-pabriks-tas-ir-krievu-intereses-zaudet-kara-pret-ukrainu Apparently its 10 months minimum, nothing about this is semi-mandatory from what I read. So what if you dont want to go to war and give a year of your life to this pointless poo poo?
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Jul 5, 2022 23:15
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Monglo posted:Apparently its 10 months minimum, nothing about this is semi-mandatory from what I read. So what if you dont want to go to war and give a year of your life to this pointless poo poo? I’m not seeing in his today’s announcement the 6-month basic army option he mentioned in the interview, just a full year (with 1-month vacation), indeed. https://twitter.com/pabriks/status/1544327118053572609 I put (semi-) in brackets because the interview had stated alternatives of 1) national guard, 2) unspecified civil service. For most people this is going to mean national guard, which is a significantly lower time commitment (3 weeks if you do it full time, not over weekends). https://twitter.com/pabriks/status/1544327101624586241 Another important thing to remember here is that the intake capacity is not infinite. https://twitter.com/pabriks/status/1544327108415062023 Full text remains a question, with likely exceptions for higher education. Passage is not even remotely to be taken for granted, with the approaching election. Also, low-key baffled that this doesn’t apply to women. Okay, let’s say you’re an old-time Soviet-brained sexist boomer who doesn’t believe they’re physically capable when a short visit to hospital would show that it’s all 22-year-old girls running on 3 hours of sleeping turning over people in beds and whatnot - why wouldn’t you then make the civil service alternative mandatory for them? cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Jul 5, 2022 |
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Jul 5, 2022 23:57
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Also, low-key baffled that this doesn’t apply to women. Okay, let’s say you’re an old-time Soviet-brained sexist boomer who doesn’t believe they’re physically capable when a short visit to hospital would show that it’s all 22-year-old girls running on 3 hours of sleeping turning over people in beds and whatnot - why wouldn’t you then make the civil service alternative mandatory for them? Because you're that sexist, or you know your constituency is that sexist and/or female and self-interested.
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Jul 6, 2022 00:00
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Monglo posted:Apparently its 10 months minimum, nothing about this is semi-mandatory from what I read. So what if you dont want to go to war and give a year of your life to this pointless poo poo? That said while 10 months is quite a bit, I think it was a like two years in  so consider yourself lucky.
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Jul 6, 2022 00:40
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cinci zoo sniper posted:I’m not seeing in his today’s announcement the 6-month basic army option he mentioned in the interview, just a full year (with 1-month vacation), indeed. Re: service for women. Not sure what the proverbial aunties from Bauska think, I guess I'd need to dial in for today's Krustpunktā for that, but many Twitter women seem to be equally perplexed. Meanwhile boomers (actual and boomer brained) go on about the duty of having kids instead. As to higher education exemption, I wouldn't hold my breath for a smart approach. If I'm old enough to remember the scramble for lovely diploma mills in grade 12, just to avoid conscription, I'm sure lawmakers remember that too. I'd place a small bet on there being an confusing exemption for STEM and medicine students for oddly worded reasons though. Monglo posted:Apparently its 10 months minimum, nothing about this is semi-mandatory from what I read. So what if you dont want to go to war and give a year of your life to this pointless poo poo? Old timey (Soviet) ways to solve this were bribes, faking medical conditions, enrollment in higher learning or proving you had dependents to support. edit: took a peep in the FB group of Progressives. Got a bit worried this has given P enough cause to torpedo themselves in the runup to the election. They really need to coordinate their messaging. a podcast for cats fucked around with this message at 07:29 on Jul 6, 2022 |
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Jul 6, 2022 07:14
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Italy removed mandatory service the year i was up and I see a clear difference in attitude/behavior from kids like me (that didn't had to do a year of bullshit) compared to people that did. Lot of kids in modern western societies won't leave home unless they have a gun pointed to their heads so being forced to stay away and meet different people has a real effect. Not saying reintroducing it will automatically do good but, given the option of civil service, there is a remote chance that it might do some. Civil service used to be a common seasonal option for unemployed youngsters but nowadays it's pretty much dead here.
SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 08:05 on Jul 6, 2022 |
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Jul 6, 2022 07:28
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I’m lowkey thinking something nearly identical and feeling terrible about it. One more way out for NEETs and all that.
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Jul 6, 2022 07:56
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The Finnish conscription system these days is alright for taking a lot of shut-ins to learn nature skills and whatnot, even if these days people are easily given exemptions on medical grounds since you don't want a young person with mental health issues near a loaded rifle. (Yeah I'm trolling a bit, this is a very very good thing.) The dumb parts of the service like hazing have been pretty competently addressed in the last two decades and it's pretty much a state-sponsored camping trip with shooting guns and operating heavy military equipment now. As a former-nerdy-peacenik-nowadays-boring-adult who chose civil service in an elementary school kitchen instead, I sometimes wish I could make that choice again. It honestly sounds like an interesting and fun time.
barbecue at the folks fucked around with this message at 08:21 on Jul 6, 2022 |
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Jul 6, 2022 08:18
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Meanwhile, here in Estonia we're increasing our wartime strength by 10,000. That means up to 36,000. About conscription and exemptions for education. In 1990s the people pursuing university education were exempted from conscription entirely and that was a mistake. An army is more successful if it has more educated soldiers. It's a mistake to exclude women, they could fill support roles. I'm guessing we don't exactly have our backs against the wall like Israel has had repeatedly. We've got NATO.
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Jul 6, 2022 08:45
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I did my 11 months in Estonia in 2015/16. Didn't really want to go, but also didn't want to get some fake medical records to consider me unfit. I was certainly not fit in a physical way though, being a fat goon at the time. The first two months in boot camp helped a lot with that though. So, so many push-ups. "Söögi alla ja söögi peale". As a whole I disliked it while going through but it did do me well physically (probably not mentally though) and there's plenty of lasting memories to reminisce over and experiences that are difficult to get in civilian life. One of the biggest flaws with our whole system is at the start of the pipeline - the medical examination that comes way before. Plenty of fit guys fake their way out, but the more problematic part are the guys that should be considered unfit but are still okayed to go and then go on to gently caress up their knees or backs or whatever else. Plenty of dudes like that when I was serving, the lucky ones got to go home early but some still served the entire 11 months, with varying limitations on what they were forced to do. For example, a couple of dudes were sent to help in the battalion hospital, so unless they needed to transport somebody from/to a field exercise they spent most of their day playing League of Legends 
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Jul 6, 2022 08:56
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It looked like that near the end of compulsory draft in Poland (~2005-ish) as well. I got lucky as I was getting degree and slipped by somehow. My friend went in and told a couple stories like: - there was one dude that was on permanent kitchen duty with strict orders to never get near any gun or be left alone for too long as he'd probably off himself - one dude had glasses as thick as bottoms of a beer bottle, noone knows why he passed medical exam - the best time was when they've figured out vending machines are not technically their responsibility, and then looted them Overall it was a total waste of time and "the only 2 things I got was extending my vocabulary of curses and foot fungal infection".
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Jul 6, 2022 09:09
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alex314 posted:Overall it was a total waste of time and "the only 2 things I got was extending my vocabulary of curses and foot fungal infection". I think that was the biggest issue with compulsory service in Poland (apart from all the hazing I guess), it didn't actually teach you anything and was just a pointless waste of time for pretty much everyone involved.
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Jul 6, 2022 09:14
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I've avoided mandatory service by going to university and them moving to a different country. At the time it felt completely anachronistic, like what the gently caress do we even need an army for any more. It's the end of history! War in Europe? lol. Well. Seems like having a large population with at least basic training completed might be a good idea after all. One of the major factors for avoiding it was definitely the hazing and bullying which was endemic at the time. If that is addressed and the service is paid at a similar rate to what kids would be working part-time gigs, I think it would be a good idea. Do this for 6-9 months then go travel in the leap year or whatever. Definitely include women, have some options for civil service maybe. If I could go to the air force, I'd probably sign up right now.
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Jul 6, 2022 09:37
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mobby_6kl posted:If that is addressed and the service is paid at a similar rate to what kids would be working part-time gigs, I think it would be a good idea. Why pay well for a free labour? What are they going to do, not come? Current Finnish Conscript pay for first 6 months is 5.4 € per day. Summer jobs pay more than that per hour. They increase that a bit for people staying for officer training after that, but it is never good.
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Jul 6, 2022 09:58
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I think the last years of italian conscription paid like barebone internships BUT it also paid pension taxes(something that most low end jobs for youngsters did not). Nothing to write home about but still more than flipping burgers at McDonalds.
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Jul 6, 2022 10:03
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I've no faith in Latvian institutions for this not to become a exploitative hazing dedovschina hellhole for young people. I was very impressed and glad when they canceled mandatory service. I'm honestly amazed that it's gotten overwhelming support on social media on all political sides here. Guess war in Ukraine broke a lot of brains.
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Jul 6, 2022 10:43
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adhuin posted:Why pay well for a free labour? What are they going to do, not come? But you get free accommodation, meals, laundry, on the job training AND they even pay your tickets to visit home! How many summer jobs can beat that???
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Jul 6, 2022 11:44
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The ones where you go home after clocking out and not forced to live in a prison camp.
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Jul 6, 2022 12:09
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I dunno. On one hand, dedovschina is said to have been completely eradicated as part of the restructuring towards a professional military and cleanup of the armed forces during NATO accession. On the other, there's a certain callousness in the way we, as a society, treat each other and run structures, even those ostensibly meant to help protect and support people. Take the current debacle around maternity hospitals, epidurals and bedside manner of antenatal staff as an example. So yeah, I can see the concern.
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Jul 6, 2022 12:15
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Yeah, my support for this is very much conditional on reading the nitty gritty of the full text, and the national guard and the civil service at interior/health/welfare ministries being permanent, unlimited alternatives to the army. I’m not going to believe humane and modern treatment of army conscripts before we’ve gone through several years of them with no major crises left not resolved.
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Jul 6, 2022 12:20
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adhuin posted:Why pay well for a free labour? What are they going to do, not come?
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Jul 6, 2022 12:21
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Yeah, my support for this is very much conditional on reading the nitty gritty of the full text, and the national guard and the civil service at interior/health/welfare ministries being permanent, unlimited alternatives to the army. I’m not going to believe humane and modern treatment of army conscripts before we’ve gone through several years of them with no major crises left not resolved. I doubt Estonia & Latvia are that much different. Don't think we have any major issues here. I went through conscription already a decade ago and things have only improved since then from what I've heard.
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Jul 6, 2022 14:12
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An acquaintance’s brother got driven to suicide by Estonian army a few months ago, so I have mixed feelings about that. 
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Jul 6, 2022 14:18
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cinci zoo sniper posted:An acquaintance’s brother got driven to suicide by Estonian army a few months ago, so I have mixed feelings about that. While I understand the personal viewpoint and impact, the army is a reflection of the society at large, and sadly we rank quite high on suicides. That being said, since December last year there's been 2 suicides, and with such small numbers, it is a statistical anomaly - could have also been 0, or 10. I don't think it's reasonable to expect conscription to be some magical safe place where nothing bad ever happens, but things are pretty OK, especially considering the alternative (a professional-only army for a country of this size). The medical & psychological vetting process for validating conscripts can absolutely be improved though.
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Jul 6, 2022 14:33
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All I’m saying is that I’d be glad to be proven wrong - for Latvia, the established basis doesn’t at all guarantee a modern conscription service where personal issues of conscripts would get addressed, rather than swept under the rug.
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Jul 6, 2022 14:52
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One thing I'm worried about is the infrastructure. Like what would the living conditions be like, if it's anything similar to how the hospitals and police buildings are handled then it will be just sad.
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Jul 6, 2022 17:50
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cinci zoo sniper posted:All I’m saying is that I’d be glad to be proven wrong - for Latvia, the established basis doesn’t at all guarantee a modern conscription service where personal issues of conscripts would get addressed, rather than swept under the rug. The main concern I'd have would be older Soviet era / 90s mentality of active duty personnel carrying over to dealing with conscripts - but considering you've had an active-duty-only military for ~15 years now, I would want to hope that mentality has been chewed out as you can't really pull similar shenanigans in an active duty only environment. Iceache posted:One thing I'm worried about is the infrastructure. Like what would the living conditions be like, if it's anything similar to how the hospitals and police buildings are handled then it will be just sad. If Estonia is anything to go by (and some our hospitals are quite in shambles as well), then pretty much all the barracks here look like this: https://ibb.co/Vj9Kpyz. Seems like the spend on military from GDP is pretty much the same (2%+) so should be doable.
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Jul 7, 2022 07:22
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I would not be worried about that, tbh. The facilities will be top notch. After all, plans to build a new military base near Jēkabpils (in Zalve) were announced earlier this week. What will happen, though, is that the facility will be expensive as all gently caress. They're estimating the construction cost at around 600-800M as per an interview aired this morning and an annual maintenance cost of 120M. And I have zero doubt that the costs will spiral out of control in the process, not without the careful involvement of Baiba Bļodniece nee Fromane. She's a semi obscure ex-lobbyist who somehow always manages to be in the background for major grift opportunities (think Dienvidu Tilts, the VID building, payday loan boom of the early 2010s, construction company cartel, etc). Well, guess who has been the parliamentary secretary for the Ministry of Defence for the past two years, handpicked by His Boomerness Pabriks himself. edit: got wires crossed, the cost is estimated for the process of reinstating conscription, rather than the base. still won't teach me about jumping to conclusions without reading the article first. a podcast for cats fucked around with this message at 07:43 on Jul 7, 2022 |
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Jul 7, 2022 07:35
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I saw first billboard in Poland for contract soldiers. PLN 4500 (950$, was 1050$ a couple weeks ago and 1150$ a couple months back  ) from the first day. If it's post tax then they should find at least some people that would be all after that.
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Jul 7, 2022 08:13
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Our contract soldiers start at 1000-1500 euro net compensation (cash + compensation of certain expenses, e.g., food). They’ve been having a rough year with that so far, though - maybe 1/3 of normal recruitment numbers.
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Jul 7, 2022 08:16
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a podcast for cats posted:Eh. I worked in a somewhat shady industry in the early 2000s and somehow got an unhealthy amount of exposure to the parasocial romance / mail order bride circles and saw/read a lot of discussions between people in them. At the time, for avoidance of doubt. I think the nuance here is that we're not the only ones who are sexist, instead of the stereotypical claim that literally everything in Latvia is worse than anywhere to the west. That said, alcoholism, violence, and sexism are absolutely still rampant with men here, especially if your social circles are not neatly stratified into the affluent knowledge worker class of the capital. cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Jul 8, 2022 |
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Jul 7, 2022 23:31
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cinci zoo sniper posted:I think the nuance here is that we're not the only ones who are sexist, instead of the stereotypical claim that literally everything in Latvia is worse than anywhere to the west. That said, alcoholism, violence, and sexism are absolutely still rampant with men here, especially if your social circles are not neatly stratified into the affluent knowledge worker class of the capital. That’s true pretty much everywhere though. (Though you guys are way more alcoholic. Turns out that Prohibition did work somewhat!)
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Jul 8, 2022 03:16
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This was posted in the Ukraine thread but it seems like it belongs here too: https://twitter.com/kevinrothrock/status/1545201571394469888
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Jul 8, 2022 06:38
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cinci zoo sniper posted:I think the nuance here is that we're not the only ones who are sexist, instead of the stereotypical claim that literally everything in Latvia is worse than anywhere to the west. That said, alcoholism, violence, and sexism are absolutely still rampant with men here, especially if your social circles are not neatly stratified into the affluent knowledge worker class of the capital. Yeah, I saw some takes about this after someone wondered why British women would fear that Ukrainian refugees will be taking their men away in the other thread and tried to make a sort of point before falling asleep. I still think that the stereotype risks becoming or even has became prejudice and borders racism, even when rooted in actual social issues. It's already bad enough that there already is a stereotype of Slavic and Baltic women being the perfect wives among the manosphere/incel circles, which I see as a direct result of this. edit: funnily enough, local incel types don't think so. from what I've seen, they have the same exact complaints as their counterparts elsewhere. a podcast for cats fucked around with this message at 07:47 on Jul 8, 2022 |
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Jul 8, 2022 07:44
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