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Seth Pecksniff
May 27, 2004

can't believe shrek is fucking dead. rip to a real one.
vaporware as a business model?

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LifeSunDeath
Jan 4, 2007

still gay rights and smoke weed every day

Beached Whale posted:

Leading NFT market analyst with valuable insight into the cryptosphere

https://twitter.com/NFT_GOD/status/1544321751403925505

these project names are really something
https://twitter.com/NFT_GOD/status/1544321752691576834?s=20&t=vGIdRfRllJ1iHjFcQMsuGg

Scratch Monkey
Oct 25, 2010

👰Proč bychom se netěšili🥰když nám Pán Bůh🙌🏻zdraví dá💪?

Beached Whale posted:

Leading NFT market analyst with valuable insight into the cryptosphere

https://twitter.com/NFT_GOD/status/1544321751403925505

NFTs defined

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XgXRA7yORA

LifeSunDeath
Jan 4, 2007

still gay rights and smoke weed every day

LOL

Rectal Death Adept
Jun 20, 2018

by Fluffdaddy

toiletbrush posted:

What's the outlook for people with crypto and USD with Voyager? There's a dude going nuts in the reddit thread replying to every post that chapter 11 is totes normal day-to-day stuff for a business and that because Voyager themselves don't hold customer's money, customers will be able to get their money back, and its just the crypto that is gone. My understanding was that wasn't really true and it was spelled out in the fine print.

Usually when crypto exchanges or funds detonate there is a hierarchy of repayment established with whatever funds they have left. The individual is always at the end of that list after Voyager is forced to repay official institutional obligations and their debts to other entities.

Since this is a giant network of interconnected ponzi schemes going up in flames then voyager, as owing debt to 3ac, will probably be used to pay off 3ac's creditors in their bankrupcy. It's hard to tell since you have multiple interconnected terms of service from each indivudal ponzi scheme wrapped up in a dozen other ponzi schemes to varying degrees. Voyager was tied to 3AC that was tied to Celsius. Voyager probably dealt with Celsius. Grey Bitcoin deals with all of them. They probably all dealt with Luna. Some things are being considered assets in already established bankrupcies.

When you have countless entities all printing their own currency to trade back and forth and leverage a bunch of interconnected debt then whatever actual money is involved might be spent 5 or six times as celsius uses a customer deposit to loan to 3AC who loans to Voyager. If all three declare bankrupcy that original depositor is not getting anything back.

Maybe if Voyager somehow has more money than they owe and bankrupcy was declared for basically no reason other than some 4d chess move then they will pay off everyone and everyone will live happily ever after.

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really


It's a great demonstration of how little originality or creativity there is among cryptocultists.

Blotto_Otter
Aug 16, 2013


notwithoutmyanus posted:

TA usually relies on looking at a specific time series. It all rolls downhill like a waterfall from smallest to biggest timeframe, and now we're heading into weekly bearish metrics (believe it or not it's still been 100% bullish on weekly until after this week closes).

notwithoutmyanus posted:

If we close under 20kish
refresh my memory, what times and days does the shitcoins market close again?

Dr. Fraiser Chain
May 18, 2004

Redlining my shit posting machine


Darth TNT posted:

Why don't these bankrupties seem to tank the price? You'd think with each confirmed bankruptcy more bankrun would happen.

An accurate price for Bitcoin relies on a bunch of assumptions mostly around how markets work if they are operated in good faith. Now, as you may imagine, what if they aren't? Instead there is likely very little real money in crypto. The price remains high for people who are well connected to sell out. For retail investors, even with a high price, they can't sell if the exchange is never open to them, or goes tits up and closes shop.

Proud Christian Mom
Dec 20, 2006
READING COMPREHENSION IS HARD

Rectal Death Adept posted:

Usually when crypto exchanges or funds detonate there is a hierarchy of repayment established with whatever funds they have left. The individual is always at the end of that list after Voyager is forced to repay official institutional obligations and their debts to other entities.

Since this is a giant network of interconnected ponzi schemes going up in flames then voyager, as owing debt to 3ac, will probably be used to pay off 3ac's creditors in their bankrupcy. It's hard to tell since you have multiple interconnected terms of service from each indivudal ponzi scheme wrapped up in a dozen other ponzi schemes to varying degrees. Voyager was tied to 3AC that was tied to Celsius. Voyager probably dealt with Celsius. Grey Bitcoin deals with all of them. They probably all dealt with Luna. Some things are being considered assets in already established bankrupcies.

When you have countless entities all printing their own currency to trade back and forth and leverage a bunch of interconnected debt then whatever actual money is involved might be spent 5 or six times as celsius uses a customer deposit to loan to 3AC who loans to Voyager. If all three declare bankrupcy that original depositor is not getting anything back.

Maybe if Voyager somehow has more money than they owe and bankrupcy was declared for basically no reason other than some 4d chess move then they will pay off everyone and everyone will live happily ever after.

the meme about millennials just passing the same $20 for aid around, except they built an entire financial system off it

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

I love the unironic "NFT 'utility' is universally lovely and vaporous and that's a good thing, actually" take

When hype of future mystery rewards is all you have the result is dozens of unenthusiastic ape holders chatting in circles at a LCD Soundsystem performance

Shaman Tank Spec
Dec 26, 2003

*blep*




At least three of those sound like slurs in some bad fantasy book.

Darth TNT
Sep 20, 2013

Beached Whale posted:

Leading NFT market analyst with valuable insight into the cryptosphere

https://twitter.com/NFT_GOD/status/1544321751403925505

There was literally a Ducktales episode about that.

Blotto_Otter
Aug 16, 2013


Rectal Death Adept posted:

Since this is a giant network of interconnected ponzi schemes going up in flames then voyager, as owing debt to 3ac, will probably be used to pay off 3ac's creditors in their bankrupcy.
You've got this backwards. 3AC owes hundreds of millions to Voyager, not the other way around. Voyager is bankrupt in large part because 3AC has not paid back any of the hundreds of millions owed to Voyager.

toiletbrush posted:

What's the outlook for people with crypto and USD with Voyager? There's a dude going nuts in the reddit thread replying to every post that chapter 11 is totes normal day-to-day stuff for a business and that because Voyager themselves don't hold customer's money, customers will be able to get their money back, and its just the crypto that is gone. My understanding was that wasn't really true and it was spelled out in the fine print.
Non-expert, uninformed opinion: that dude saying the cash is safe but the crypto is gone is probably wrong; some of both is almost certainly gone. The customers are probably out X% of both their cash and crypto deposits with Voyager, where X is some percentage between 0 and 100 that will be determined at the end of a lengthy, cumbersome process (during which some amount of Voyager's remaining assets will also be extracted through legal and consulting fees).

e: oh, and the bit about chapter 11 being "totes normal day-to-day stuff"? lol yeah I'm gonna climb out on a limb and say that any form of bankruptcy isn't a great omen about the future of a not-bank crypto exchange. Continuing your business operations through chapter 11 is one thing when you're an airline flying planes around the country, it's another thing when you're a exchange that can't conduct trading because you lost all your customers' money and shitcoins. Cat's out of the bag now on this particular not-bank being very bank-ish but also very much not actually a bank.

Blotto_Otter fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Jul 6, 2022

DAD LOST MY IPOD
Feb 3, 2012

Fats Dominar is on the case


Blotto_Otter posted:

You've got this backwards. 3AC owes hundreds of millions to Voyager, not the other way around. Voyager is bankrupt in large part because 3AC has not paid back any of the hundreds of millions owed to Voyager.

Non-expert, uninformed opinion: that dude saying the cash is safe but the crypto is gone is probably wrong; some of both is almost certainly gone. The customers are probably out X% of both their cash and crypto deposits with Voyager, where X is some percentage between 0 and 100 that will be determined at the end of a lengthy, cumbersome process (during which some amount of Voyager's remaining assets will also be extracted through legal and consulting fees).

This is true, with the caveat that X is likely to be much closer to 100 than 0.

THF13
Sep 26, 2007

Keep an adversary in the dark about what you're capable of, and he has to assume the worst.

toiletbrush posted:

What's the outlook for people with crypto and USD with Voyager? There's a dude going nuts in the reddit thread replying to every post that chapter 11 is totes normal day-to-day stuff for a business and that because Voyager themselves don't hold customer's money, customers will be able to get their money back, and its just the crypto that is gone. My understanding was that wasn't really true and it was spelled out in the fine print.

From their statement, which obviously could be bullshit and requires court approval, actual USD held by Voyager looks like it will be returned in full. Anyone who was holding crypto is only getting back some tiny piece of whatever Voyager has left, and getting worthless shares in Voyager, worthless Voyager tokens, and almost certainly worthless proceeds from whatever 3AC is able to pay back.

Durzel
Nov 15, 2005


You have to admire the sheer gall at saying that it's more important to make up a load of bullshit about what your JPG project is going to do, than it is to actually deliver any of it.

Mercury_Storm
Jun 12, 2003

*chomp chomp chomp*

Beached Whale posted:

Leading NFT market analyst with valuable insight into the cryptosphere

https://twitter.com/NFT_GOD/status/1544321751403925505

This is just an admission that everything anyone has tried to do with NFTs loving sucks poo poo.... so might as well just do scams!

Spazzle
Jul 5, 2003

Durzel posted:

You have to admire the sheer gall at saying that it's more important to make up a load of bullshit about what your JPG project is going to do, than it is to actually deliver any of it.

The real nfts were the friends we made along the way.

slidebite
Nov 6, 2005

Good egg
:colbert:

DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:

This is true, with the caveat that X is likely to be much closer to 100 than 0.
That will bring relief to people when they can finally access their crypto and it's worth a fraction of what it was when they wanted to access it.

The Sausages
Sep 30, 2012

What do you want to do? Who do you want to be?
As an aside from the collapses and rugpulls, i found something in the A/T History thread about a time when people could just make their own coins, actual coins. I'll quote it here because the adviser's warnings from thousands of years ago seem on point for some of the unsolvable fundamental problems of cryptocurrency, like the impossibility of actually having a standard coin (as seen today where every miner is making their own as they see fit/profitable), people abandoning actual productivity to produce currency (which is mining in a nutshell, see also Filipino farm workers quitting their day job to grind cryptogames for cryptobro 'sponsors'), and the politically destabilizing effect of true decentralization of currency (that one hasn't happened because cryptocurrency isn't actually decentralized).

Taishi Ci posted:

Some currency bits from the Han dynasty to go with the earlier coinage talk:

quote:

初,秦用半兩錢,高祖嫌其重,難用,更鑄莢錢。於是物價騰踊,米至石萬錢。夏,四月,更造四銖錢;除盜鑄錢令,使民得自鑄。

Originally, the realm had been using the half-tael currency created by the Qin dynasty. Emperor Gao had disliked this currency because of its weight and had felt it was hard to use, so during his reign he had cast the lighter “elm seed” currency to use instead. However, the price of goods had risen so rapidly that a bushel of rice had eventually cost as much as ten thousand cash.

In the fifth year of Emperor Wen's reign (175 BC), in summer, the fourth month, Emperor Wen produced a standard for the casting of a new four-zhu currency to use. He even abolished the prohibition against counterfeiting, permitting the common people to cast the coins themselves.

賈誼諫曰︰「法使天下公得雇租鑄銅、錫爲錢,敢雜以鉛、鐵爲他巧者,其罪黥。然鑄錢之情,非殽雜爲巧,則不可得贏;而殽之甚微,爲利甚厚。夫事有召禍而法有起姦;今令細民人操造幣之勢,各隱屛而鑄作,因欲禁其厚利微姦,雖黥罪日報,其勢不止。乃者,民人抵罪多者一縣百數,及吏之所疑搒笞奔走者甚衆。夫縣法以誘民使入陷阱,孰多於此!又民用錢,郡縣不同︰或用輕錢,百加若干;或用重錢,平稱不受。法錢不立︰吏急而壹之乎?則大爲煩苛而力不能勝;縱而弗呵乎?則市肆異用,錢文大亂;苟非其術,何鄕而可哉!今農事棄捐而采銅者日蕃,釋其耒耨,冶鎔炊炭;姦錢日多,五穀不爲多。善人怵而爲姦邪,愿民陷而之刑戮;刑戮將甚不詳,柰何而忽!國知患此,吏議必曰『禁之』。禁之不得其術,其傷必大。令禁鑄錢,則錢必重;重則其利深,盜鑄如雲而起,棄市之罪又不足以禁矣。姦數不勝而法禁數潰,銅使之然也。銅布於天下,其爲禍博矣,故不如收之。」賈山亦上書諫,以爲︰「錢者,亡用器也,而可以易富貴。富貴者,人主之操柄也;令民爲之,是與人主共操柄,不可長也。」上不聽。

Jia Yi criticized this new policy. He said, “The state already had a program of hiring out workers to cast coins from copper and tin, warning them that anyone who dared to cheat the government by mixing in lead or iron would be punished by having their face tattooed to mark them as a criminal, yet because the nature of casting coins means that not diluting the coins with other materials results in no profit while debasing them by even the slightest amount brings great returns, even doing this much meant that the law was already enticing the people to do wrong and producing terrible outcomes. Yet now you are letting just anyone among the people create currency as they like, each of them casting away while shielded from sight? Trying to prevent the people from engaging in villainy under such circumstances, when the chance of profit to be had is so generous and the likelihood of detection is so slim, will be impossible though we tattoo someone's face every single day. And even if we did attempt to do so, it would mean that upwards of hundreds of people per county would be convicted by the law and an even greater number would run away for fear of being suspected by the officials and subjected to the rod and the whip. As a matter of tricking people to stumble into the pit, what government policy could possibly be worse than this?

"Beyond that, if the people are allowed to cast currency themselves, there will be no common coinage used across all the counties and commanderies of the realm; some places will have coins so light that more than a hundred extra of them will be required to meet the weight standards, while others will have coins so heavy that it will be impractical to make change for them. Under such circumstances, it will be impossible to maintain a monetary policy. Are the officials to strive to enforce a uniform standard? That will only result in a great deal of trouble and effort without being able to fix the problem. Should they then say nothing and let things be? Then markets will be entirely arbitrary in what they accept and the nominal value of the currency will be thrown into total confusion. Why then, if we have no method to control this situation, should we permit it to come about?

“Already, every day more and more people are neglecting or abandoning their farm work while hunting for copper, tossing aside their plows and hoes and tending to their smelting fires instead; perverse currency swells by the day, while the supply of the Five Grains dwindles just as rapidly. Good people will be tempted to evil, and honest folk will run foul of the law and be subjected to punishments and executions; when so many of these verdicts will be summary judgments, how can we fail to consider the prospect?

“When the state recognizes this evil, there will surely be those officials whose solution is simply to say, ‘ban the private casting of currency’. But to simply ban the practice would be insufficient to address the problem, and great harm would still ensue. If private casting is banned, then the coins which are produced will be heavy, and as the heaviness of the coins will increase the prospect of gain, counterfeiters will still rise like clouds in such numbers that threatening them with public execution would still not be able to put a halt to them. What really facilitates the implacable villainy of the people and the repeated powerlessness of the laws is the availability of copper, and as copper is widespread across the realm, the disaster resulting from it is just as broad. Thus the best thing to do would be public confiscation of all copper.”

Jia Shan also submitted a letter of remonstration, stating, "Currency is useless in itself, yet it can be exchanged for wealth and status; as these are the ruler's handles of power, letting the people do this would let them grasp the same handles as the ruler. It would not be sustainable."

But Emperor Wen did not listen to their objections.

是時,太中大夫鄧通方寵幸,上欲其富,賜之蜀嚴道銅山,使鑄錢。吳王濞有豫章銅山,招致天下亡命者以鑄錢;東煑海水爲鹽;以故無賦而國用饒足。於是吳、鄧錢布天下。

By this time, there was a certain Grand Household Counselor who enjoyed Emperor Wen's favor and attention, Deng Tong. Emperor Wen wanted to enrich Deng Tong, thus he granted him a copper mine at Yandao in Shu commandery so that he could cast currency.

The Prince of Wu, Liu Bi, also possessed a copper mine at Yuzhang commandery. He attracted fugitives from across the realm to come to his domain in order to cast currency, and in the east he boiled seawater to produce salt. Thus he was able to dispense with imposing taxes on his people, and his domain enjoyed wealth and plenty.

Because of these things, the currency minted by Deng Tong and by Liu Bi spread across the realm.

ngl punitive face tattoos for NFT shills might improve society somewhat

Blotto_Otter
Aug 16, 2013


https://twitter.com/AdamLevitin/status/1544701682101223424

lol, so that's the angle on Sam the Bankman's loans to places like Voyager: their loan to Voyager is smaller than their loan from Voyager. If Voyager can't pay them back, they can just offset that against the amount they owe Voyager (I think).

e: or maybe that's not right? That bankruptcy lawyer just posted his follow up tweet. Maybe the Bankman's people assumed they could offset and that assumption might not be safe?

https://twitter.com/AdamLevitin/status/1544705542694006784

LifeSunDeath
Jan 4, 2007

still gay rights and smoke weed every day

The Sausages posted:

ngl punitive face tattoos for NFT shills might improve society somewhat

they do it to themselves

Macichne Leainig
Jul 26, 2012

by VG
Wore my "gently caress NFTs" shirt out and about this morning. I'm doing my part!

LifeSunDeath
Jan 4, 2007

still gay rights and smoke weed every day

notwithoutmyanus
Mar 17, 2009

Blotto_Otter posted:



refresh my memory, what times and days does the shitcoins market close again?

They actually *do* close at 12AM UTC. All the technical indicators calculate daily, so even if the market is traded 24x7 there is a time period - effectively. Which is why these manipulated markets pull a bunch of comedy bs seconds before a daily close. Weekly close on Sunday if it's under 22k would seal the deal.

Juul-Whip
Mar 10, 2008

Beached Whale posted:

Leading NFT market analyst with valuable insight into the cryptosphere

https://twitter.com/NFT_GOD/status/1544321751403925505

Lol “ever heard of a little company called Apple?”

https://twitter.com/corralesofweb3/status/1544460010394030080?s=20

Beached Whale
Jun 27, 2009

The world as will and idea

Juul-Whip posted:

Lol “ever heard of a little company called Apple?”

https://twitter.com/corralesofweb3/status/1544460010394030080?s=20

Apple is pretty much the Goblintown of computers

Grape
Nov 16, 2017

Happily shilling for China!

The Walrus posted:

nah songs good and that was eminem with that line, which is good.

you know you don't have to be the millennial rap version of a boomer insisting 90's rolling stones albums are actually good

LifeSunDeath
Jan 4, 2007

still gay rights and smoke weed every day
You guys may have heard of a little something called Nabisco. They didn't start out by making oreos. They started out with digital images of apes making GBS threads on their own sneakers. This made them the known brand they are today, not some loving fungible rear end food stuffs. What I'm saying is gently caress a product. The customers are the product. And no this is not a scam. You're a scam. Swipe to invest everything.

Macichne Leainig
Jul 26, 2012

by VG
Swiped and my life savings are gone???? Hello??

Kennel
May 1, 2008

BAWWW-UNH!
https://twitter.com/trevormil23/status/1544334464272187393?s=20&t=UihACYDL0YQW7UqnKDj5Ig

LifeSunDeath
Jan 4, 2007

still gay rights and smoke weed every day


Squiggle
Sep 29, 2002

I don't think she likes the special sauce, Rick.


Hooray! People are paying attention to me!

LifeSunDeath
Jan 4, 2007

still gay rights and smoke weed every day

Squiggle posted:

Hooray! People are paying attention to me!

OH poo poo YOU'RE REAL!?!?!

Squiggle
Sep 29, 2002

I don't think she likes the special sauce, Rick.


And extremely fungible

EDIT no, non-fungible. which one is the good one?

Paladinus
Jan 11, 2014

heyHEYYYY!!!
Blue chip NFT predictions for August:
- Borgle Sheeps
- Cock Piss Elons
- Inucats
- The project where you can buy letters of the alphabet and get money from people who use them on the proprietary blockchain twitter
- Mountain Dew

LifeSunDeath
Jan 4, 2007

still gay rights and smoke weed every day

Paladinus posted:

Blue chip NFT predictions for August:
- Borgle Sheeps
- Cock Piss Elons
- Inucats
- The project where you can buy letters of the alphabet and get money from people who use them on the proprietary blockchain twitter
- Mountain Dew

with Borgle Sheeps you're betting on @donklelabs architecture, the smart money is on Z̴̮̩͋͗͛À̸̻͚̈́̇́̍̍̏̊͛̿̆̈́͠Ļ̶̡̥̪̦̞̞̩̘̪̅̎̓͐̎͗͆̂͜͝͝͝͝͠G̸̠͎͌̈́̄́̃̽̑̀̊̈́͆̽Ő̵͙̎̕͠͝ ̵̨̧̯̘̺̰̰̗̞̟͉̲̪͊̎̾̔̀̎̔͗̀̀͛̆͜Ĉ̶̫̻͍͛͊̀̿̿͋̓̚͘Ó̷̞̥̤̞̇͜Ĩ̷̢̢̛͖̲̰̍̌̀͆̾̋̾̈́͘͝ͅN̶̬͙̣̖̘͙̱͂̍̊͝

NecroBob
Jul 29, 2003
poo poo, I was about to dump my bank account into Meeplebloops. Borgle Sheeps are definitely the better buy. God, that could have ended so poorly.

E: Z̴̮̩͋͗͛À̸̻͚̈́̇́̍̍̏̊͛̿̆̈́͠Ļ̶̡̥̪̦̞̞̩̘̪̅̎̓͐̎͗͆̂͜͝͝͝͝͠G̸̠͎͌̈́̄́̃̽̑̀̊̈́͆̽Ő̵͙̎̕͠͝ ̵̨̧̯̘̺̰̰̗̞̟͉̲̪͊̎̾̔̀̎̔͗̀̀͛̆͜Ĉ̶̫̻͍͛͊̀̿̿͋̓̚͘Ó̷̞̥̤̞̇͜Ĩ̷̢̢̛͖̲̰̍̌̀͆̾̋̾̈́͘͝ͅN̶̬͙̣̖̘͙̱͂̍̊͝ sounds interesting, but I'd need to see the whitepaper first. I'm not just going to spend all my money on a possible rugpull.

Shaman Tank Spec
Dec 26, 2003

*blep*



Juul-Whip posted:

Lol “ever heard of a little company called Apple?”

https://twitter.com/corralesofweb3/status/1544460010394030080?s=20

Hmm I wonder what the story of crypto and NFTs is. Oh well I'm sure it's all super positive stuff from top to bottom!

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Blotto_Otter
Aug 16, 2013


notwithoutmyanus posted:

They actually *do* close at 12AM UTC. All the technical indicators calculate daily, so even if the market is traded 24x7 there is a time period - effectively. Which is why these manipulated markets pull a bunch of comedy bs seconds before a daily close. Weekly close on Sunday if it's under 22k would seal the deal.
so by "closed" we mean "not actually closed, trading is still happening the entire time before and after, the market is very much 'open' still, but a new tickmark appeared on the X-axis of my chart, such that it feels like I'm staring at stock market charts, which makes me feel like a big boy". we don't actually mean closed, we mean :airquote: closed :airquote:, i got it now

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