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I think my biggest issue with both Reaper and now Dreadgod is that they both keep undercutting what should be the theme of the series. Lindon's entire driving motivation is listed as making sure he and his close allies advance together, that everyone is working together and getting stronger so they can stand together. In practice everyone keeps getting left further and further behind now because Lindon and Dross are just getting power up after comical powerup. Even the two people that used to be benchmarks for Lindon (Yerin and Eithan) have either fallen behind or completely exited the Cradle narrative. Like despite all his claims literally every other member of the team ended this book roughly where they began while Lindon got another ridiculous powerup that put him on Monarch level. I really feel like the narrative would have worked better if we had Lindon's advancement take the backseat for once to see everyone else at least get somewhere. Orthos has been an Underlord for literally half the series at this point for example. Especially since we're at the point fewer than a dozen beings on Cradle can even challenge him now
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Jul 7, 2022 00:00
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I get your point, though it looks like a big part of Dreadgod was setting up the hyperbolic time chamber training arc at the start of Waybound where they'll further power up the gang. Plus, the idea is getting them to be able to keep up with Lindon (who has two incredibly unfair advantages in hunger arm+consume and then Dross) to the extent that they're more ally than liability, not necessarily equalizing completely.
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Jul 7, 2022 00:28
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I'm going to admit that I didn't completely follow what was happening in Reaper. All the sections from the Lion monarch's perspective were completely uninteresting and I tended to skim them (something I almost never do) which didn't help. I think I'm going to have to reread it before I can read the new one.
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Jul 7, 2022 00:52
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LLSix posted:I'm going to admit that I didn't completely follow what was happening in Reaper. All the sections from the Lion monarch's perspective were completely uninteresting and I tended to skim them (something I almost never do) which didn't help. I think I'm going to have to reread it before I can read the new one. Dang, I absolutely loved that about the early part of reaper. Usually a story has the antagonist rest on their laurels while the protagonist crawls through the dirt to accomplish their goals. Lindon FINALLY relaxing while Shen lives a desperate year in the labyrinth is such a great reversal of that. Edit: put spoiler tags in for Reaper
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Jul 7, 2022 01:04
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I sincerely hope will decides lindon's plan is to just have the entirety of cradle ascend, and leave the dreadgods and monarchs behind in the void. Just steal the planet + people and let the monarchs float around.
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Jul 7, 2022 02:42
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I'm assuming he's going to give the monarchs the ultimatum to ascend or die after killing all the dreadgods and concentrating all their power into himself and making weapons out of their corpses. They would have to leave behind some system that forces monarchs into a position where they can't stick around and restart the problem though.
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Jul 7, 2022 03:26
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Dr Subterfuge posted:I'm assuming he's going to give the monarchs the ultimatum to ascend or die after killing all the dreadgods and concentrating all their power into himself and making weapons out of their corpses. They would have to leave behind some system that forces monarchs into a position where they can't stick around and restart the problem though. If Lindon isn't bound by the Eldari Pact when he ascends then I guess he can just come back to drag Monarchs out whenever he wants to. Also, the 8ME fusion armor has been a bit of a red herring so far, Lindon could finally learn how to build his own version so Sages/Heralds can link up to push any new Monarchs out.
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Jul 7, 2022 03:42
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Re: Malice and Northstrider, them flipping on Lindon so quickly makes a lot more sense when you remember that the entire nature of being a monarch is deliberately choosing to be a big fish in a tiny pond. They *like* the situation they have, they want to keep it going, because nobody on Cradle can tell them to cut it out and the abidan are forbidden from telling them what to do. Lindon is directly and openly loving with their gravy train, if he forces them to ascend then they have to obey rules and follow orders and no longer be at the top of the totem pole anymore. Same goes for shen (who would absolutely hate living under the abidan rule and would probably get deleted by the judges the moment he tried to defect to the vroshir) and as far as sha miara goes, she’s 15 and has no idea what’s actually going on. Emriss is a tree and the 8ME have probably convinced themselves that they’re the exception to the “all monarchs must go” plan, same way they thought they could wiggle out of getting teamkilled by Penance. Like, Northstrider only seems pragmatic within the confines of Cradle. His whole deal is maximizing the amount of power he can have without ascending, that’s why he’s spending centuries trying to make a knockoff Presence instead of just becoming an abidan enforcer and getting one for free. Similarly, Malice only seemed reasonable within the range of thinking she could spend eternity gaslighting gatekeeping and girlbossing everyone through sheer dint of being the baddest bitch around. The moment the idea of no longer being top of the food chain enters the cards they both freak out because suddenly they’d have to be “normal” again.
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Jul 7, 2022 14:59
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:Re: Malice and Northstrider, them flipping on Lindon so quickly makes a lot more sense when you remember that the entire nature of being a monarch is deliberately choosing to be a big fish in a tiny pond. They *like* the situation they have, they want to keep it going, because nobody on Cradle can tell them to cut it out and the abidan are forbidden from telling them what to do. Lindon is directly and openly loving with their gravy train, if he forces them to ascend then they have to obey rules and follow orders and no longer be at the top of the totem pole anymore. Same goes for shen (who would absolutely hate living under the abidan rule and would probably get deleted by the judges the moment he tried to defect to the vroshir) and as far as sha miara goes, she’s 15 and has no idea what’s actually going on. Emriss is a tree and the 8ME have probably convinced themselves that they’re the exception to the “all monarchs must go” plan, same way they thought they could wiggle out of getting teamkilled by Penance. You don't even need to read Dreadgod to understand why Malice would be a villain. You just need to read her name. Or pay any attention to how she treats Mercy and the rest of her family. Malice has always been presented as a lesser evil at best. LLSix fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Jul 7, 2022 |
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Jul 7, 2022 15:35
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Important to note that the Abidan Presence is very much not for free. You either need to swear their oaths and live under their fairly onerous rules (especially from the perspective of a Monarch choosing to live on Cradle) or steal one and be marked as an enemy of the strongest force in the multiverse.
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Jul 7, 2022 16:48
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:Re: Malice and Northstrider
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Jul 7, 2022 17:07
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Cicero posted:Word of Will is that yes, the 8ME doesn't contribute to the hunger aura problem, because they're not Monarchs. So they're probably fine with Lindon's plan. And also Emriss was murdered by all the other Monarchs for trying to do the same thing Lindon's trying to do now, she's still only around as a Remnant. She's only been sticking around on Cradle to minimize damage but seems 100% down for ascension.
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Jul 7, 2022 17:13
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Also, Northstrider's main thing is he doesn't like the Abidan at all and wants to be free from them, so his plan for ascension is to gather enough resources on Cradle so when he does leave he's in a position where he is still able to be independent. The other factor behind Malice and Northstider falling in with Shen is seriously trying to kill the Dreadgods genuinely poses an existential threat to the Monarchs. That's how the last crop of Monarchs died, after all. Lindon's association with the avatar of Destruction was already enough to get Northstider and Malice leery of him because that created an uncertainty potentially challenging their independence as Monarchs, so its not that much of a surprise that they saw Shen as the lesser of two evils.
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Jul 7, 2022 17:15
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Then it makes sense that they are taking Shen's money while turning a blind eye to Lindon; if their gamble pays off they won't have an angry Monarch to worry about AND they would be in prime position to take Shen's stuff when he dies/ascends
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Jul 7, 2022 20:07
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I liked Yerin better in this book than the last one.
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Jul 8, 2022 05:24
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The real question is why is only shen suspicious of emriss. I can't pull it up right now, but there was a moment where she just says "i remember everything", and everyone is just like "welp no reason to think too hard about THAT" edit: also i foresee lindon blowing up the armor as his last act, just to be a poo poo
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Jul 8, 2022 17:21
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30.5 Days posted:The real question is why is only shen suspicious of emriss. I can't pull it up right now, but there was a moment where she just says "i remember everything", and everyone is just like "welp no reason to think too hard about THAT" I think the others might have suspicions but calling them out and having Emriss and 8ME in open opposition to the others would only make matters worse
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Jul 8, 2022 17:39
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I mean remember that the monarchs outside of emriss are all extremely shortsighted and are making a lot of mistakes directly related to not doing due diligence. See: how their Big Secret got out solely because nobody thought to check in on Red Faith, the guy who predates all of them and had a direct hand in the creation of at least one of the dreadgods, to make sure he had the same binding vow of silence that all of them had and couldn’t just tell somebody what was up. Them all thinking “oh Emriss isn’t gonna flip on all of us, she’s just a lib tree ghost who’s spent the last several centuries teaching people how to read” is extremely in character for them
Babysitter Super Sleuth fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Jul 8, 2022 |
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Jul 8, 2022 18:46
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I mean they just assumed that Red Faith had a vow that was good forever rather than literally to a specific group of people, right? Which is equally dumb, but still.
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Jul 8, 2022 19:29
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On soul oaths, one thing I'm thinking is that Lindon's soul oath didn't trigger until he realized that Charity hadn't known the truth. So maybe the way Daji's soul oath wasn't triggered in Bloodline was just part of his memory getting wiped. As for why he reacted as if he expected it to trigger, that could be him thinking, "I probably actually did do those things they're accusing me of" but then since he doesn't know that still doesn't count as breaking the soul oath.
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Jul 8, 2022 19:34
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With all the love the Cradle series gets here and other places, I'm going to have to try to read them again. I read the first one, maybe the second, but it just didn't click for me.
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Jul 8, 2022 20:02
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I think it's fantastic but no series is for everyone. It's very anchored to powering up and fighting, the prose is basic, the plot pacing is relentless with little downtime, characterization is very, uh, efficient but not particularly deep, and the protagonist and deuteragonist are both fairly vanilla as far as progression fantasy goes (I still love Lindon but I think some of the other characters do more interesting things). Oh, and Will's penchant for one-liners, either punchy or humorous, doesn't land for everybody.
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Jul 8, 2022 20:13
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The thing about Malice and Northstrider is that Lindon and his buddies crossed very specific psychological red lines for them. Malice is the obvious one - she's literally born and raised as the embodiment of necessary evil for the Akura. She is their malice, and if you threaten their empire, it is her duty and pleasure to gently caress you up. That's normally not a problem, since said empire is reasonably sane and pleasant by the standards of Cradle, but it's still sustained by the Monarch system, and so if you present the slightest challenge to that, they will instantly stop playing nice. Northstrider, meanwhile, is just a great big antisocial 'don't tread on me' loner who happens to be so insanely powerful that few have attempted to tread on him in centuries. That means he's mostly harmless by Monarch standards, and a reasonably reliable ally against global threats, but he's got a toxic combination of entitlement and social and emotional detachment that mean that if anyone else attempts to impose their authority on him, he will flip the gently caress out, and that he cannot tolerate the normal path of ascension because it makes him far too beholden to the Man. He's like your weirdo neighbour who greets you with a smile and a nod so long as you don't try to engage him in serious conversation, and will put in cash for the charity whip-rounds, but will gut you like a fish the second you suggest that his hedges might use a trim since they're blocking the footpath.
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Jul 8, 2022 21:07
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Regarding soul oaths, Red Sage's loophole makes sense because soul oaths seem to work on the actual beliefs of the swearer. Like Lindon inadvertently breaking his oath, and Yerin getting to run away from combat because she genuinely believed pounding an advancement-ade was the best way for her to protect Redmoon Hall. So the Sage of Red Faith got out of his oath because 1) He's exactly enough of a pedantic rear end in a top hat that he GENUINELY believes that's how the oath would work and he isn't just rationalizing it to himself like Lindon or Yerin would 2) He may not be great at reading intent in general because the little bit we get from his perspective suggests he may not be neurotypical Conversation probably went something like this: Akura Malice: Oh hey the previous monarchs made you swear not to tell anyone right? SoRF: Yep! Cross my heart, hope to die, stick a needle in my eye as long as we both should live. AM: Cool. And he's looking at an AND truth table in his head thinking yep this checks out. Xand_Man fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Jul 8, 2022 |
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Jul 8, 2022 21:14
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Oaths also very much operate on intent (both I and i). So if he truly believes he's free, he is. Especially with nobody else around whose Intent will punish him.
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Jul 9, 2022 09:32
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In contrast to Dreadgod, I didn't really enjoy the new Bad guys, Darktown funk. The first 20% or so was clearly written directly after watching Our flag means death and wanting to do something similar, and the rest involved trying to do something for the fae. However, the fae were not allowed to tell Clyde what they wanted due to fae rules so there were repeated conversations which each go on for multiple pages of just nonsense talking around the issue in the hopes Clyde will pick up on the gaps in the conversation or otherwise work things out. This goes on and on and on. It's classic fae poo poo I suppose, but it makes for very tedious reading when they're the only characters Clyde has to talk to.
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Jul 9, 2022 12:45
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I think the reason that Malice and Northstrider are willing to overlook Shen’s actions and focus on Lindon & Co. is that their #1 greatest fear is interference from the Abidan. There is nothing, up to and including awakening the Dreadgods, that represents as existential a threat as the one they sense from the Heavens. As soon as Eithan revealed himself as a agitator from Above, his actions became the greatest threat to their survival, and his actions were to create Lindon and Yerin.
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Jul 9, 2022 16:16
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Finished Defiance, book 4 of the Spiral Wars series by Joel Shepherd, which means halfway through what's out so far. This one's ending was even more "gently caress!" than the last ones! I also liked how the very last 1-2 pages just casually introduces the names of several new alien races in a way that's really obviously "Next book, these guys are going to be important!"
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Jul 11, 2022 00:32
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AARD VARKMAN posted:Finished Defiance, book 4 of the Spiral Wars series by Joel Shepherd, which means halfway through what's out so far. This one's ending was even more "gently caress!" than the last ones! It's pretty good all the way through but the scope is getting out of hand, think he needs to start tying some plots off.
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Jul 11, 2022 12:34
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branedotorg posted:It's pretty good all the way through but the scope is getting out of hand, think he needs to start tying some plots off. I'm reading them back to back so it's not impossible so far but I'm already having trouble keeping all the planets/stations/battles straight. And he is constantly introducing new named Phoenix crew, aliens, political factions, and yeah, subplots.. like Styx grooming Skah for ... something  . But I also kind of like it - he can kill off characters without having to introduce them same book and so it has actual impact.
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Jul 11, 2022 15:47
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Finished the Duchy of Terra series by Glynn Stewart. Very satisfying, although the back half of the final book kind of kept accelerating and ended abruptly although in a satisfying manner. The various rules of space combat established was enjoyable to follow, especially with the way evolving tech and doctrine allowed things to change without a fundamental paradigm shift. My enjoyment got easier once a recurring character with a very unfortunate given name faded into the background.
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Jul 12, 2022 08:23
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Argas posted:Finished the Duchy of Terra series by Glynn Stewart. Very satisfying, although the back half of the final book kind of kept accelerating and ended abruptly although in a satisfying manner. The various rules of space combat established was enjoyable to follow, especially with the way evolving tech and doctrine allowed things to change without a fundamental paradigm shift. My enjoyment got easier once a recurring character with a very unfortunate given name faded into the background. Oh it's the guy who went viral on Reddit recently: https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/v2s4ro/oc_a_pic_i_took_of_my_husband_with_all_the_books/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/v3gn5y/im_glynn_stewart_author_of_60_scifi_fantasy_books/  Pretty cool.
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Jul 12, 2022 10:35
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I read Beware of Chicken this week based on chat in this thread, and two big thumbs up from me on it.
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Jul 12, 2022 18:35
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Casualfarmer does a really good job of spacing out the titular gimmick such that it's always funny and not just a one-note joke Royal Road serial spoilers: The demonic cultivator having a nervous breakdown at the end of the tournament arc when he realizes the Hidden Master he's been afraid for 2 books sent a farm animal to kick his rear end is super satisfying 
Xand_Man fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Jul 13, 2022 |
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Jul 12, 2022 21:22
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Please note that is a spoiler from the serial... I read it assuming you only were talking about the book, although I don't think it super spoiled anything
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Jul 12, 2022 21:27
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My B, marked it. I tried to keep it vague because the payoff is so good
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Jul 13, 2022 01:30
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Cross posting from the main SF & F thread. A couple weeks back, I posted a couple short stories in that thread that several people said they liked. Thanks to you guys, Assault on Ball's Deep hit #21 in the YA short reads category, and #31 in the Science Fiction short reads category. Well, now I'm back with the next story, Liminal Coition which was formerly just a google drive link. Now it is an Amazon kindle book, which is free for the next five days, or free forever if you have Kindle Unlimited. Here's the pitch: Liminal Coition posted:Gaia is the culmination of the human race, a godlike being who cares for the lesser-evolved forms of her species like a mother for her own children. When a cataclysm threatens to destroy all life in the Orion Spire, she takes humanity coreward on a perilous search for a new home. But ancient civilizations of immeasurable power lurk within the galactic disk, and soon her path crosses with Kirkust. He has spent billions of years pursuing perverse pleasures, building computational megastructures around stars to simulate his every fantasy. Liminal Coition I've also started recording for a podcast kf SF & F stories in a similar vein. I'm thinking of calling it Deplorable Visions, a small reference Harlan Ellison's Dangerous Visions anthologies. It isn't hosted anywhere yet except my google drive, but the first episode, Assault on Ball's Deep, is available here: Deplorable Visions, Episode 1: Assault on Ball's Deep It's a 39 minute short story, written and read by me. The file is like 60 megs, so you'll probably have to download it for it to play. Thank you to everyone who gave me positive feedback last time! MartingaleJack fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Jul 13, 2022 |
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Jul 13, 2022 03:51
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MartingaleJack posted:Cross posting from the main SF & F thread. Very small issue I had with the blurb was finding the Orion Spire - it only comes up on Wikipedia as Orion Arm or Orion Spur as the closest analogues.
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Jul 15, 2022 21:25
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day-gas posted:Very small issue I had with the blurb was finding the Orion Spire - it only comes up on Wikipedia as Orion Arm or Orion Spur as the closest analogues. Ah, thank you very much!
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Jul 15, 2022 21:49
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Little Cradle animatic (Lindon tries Burning Cloak for the first time) from Reddit: https://v.redd.it/xb0m28pz18e91
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Jul 28, 2022 10:24
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