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I like how once again I have fallen for the tech relic curse. Nostalgic about days past where I'd have some tech that I would use, remembering mainly the good parts Think to myself, ah I can counter the bad parts by buying stuff way above the spec I originally had. Professional grade gear will mean no further issues! Come to find you still have same issues, and a bunch of new ones due to the passage off time. Doesn't even matter what specifically I'm talking about (the ingest of MiniDV tapes currently), it's the same drat thing every time.
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Jul 8, 2022 16:12
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Bargearse posted:It seems like these days the easier to use something is, the more of a pain in the arse it is fix when it inevitably breaks. It turns out computers are actually really complicated and attempts to make them "user-friendly" to people who are unwilling to learn how to understand a complicated machine make the machine worse at its job, who knew E: I've heard anecdotes about students in computer labs who are completely baffled by the ideas of "folders" and "the file system" after being raised on smartphones and there is simply not a  big enough
Woolie Wool has a new favorite as of 17:58 on Jul 8, 2022 |
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Jul 8, 2022 17:55
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Yeah I heard the same, it was always assumed that new generations of kids would be computer whizzes, but the opposite has happened. Gen X and the Millennials have a purpose afterall... we're the only ones who know how to program the VCR.
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Jul 8, 2022 18:12
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When I started as a university teaching assistant in 2011 I always had at least one junior engineering student baffled by the concept of using File Explorer to browse the C:\ drive. The gen-ed How to Computer 101 course was even worse.
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Jul 8, 2022 18:39
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Imagine if this whole time it started at the A drive but like no body wanted to admit it.
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Jul 8, 2022 18:48
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I use a batch file so I never go "off-line" during the workday even if I'm napping, and the sales guys think I'm some sort of whizzard.
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Jul 8, 2022 19:04
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Woolie Wool posted:E: I've heard anecdotes about students in computer labs who are completely baffled by the ideas of "folders" and "the file system" after being raised on smartphones and there is simply not a Navigating a file system has always been a pain point for people when learning computers, look at this article from 1996: https://www.nngroup.com/articles/file-death/ People have been struggling with file systems conceptually since computers became household appliances. This is not really a new thing. It's not like there was a golden age in the 2000s before smartphones where people became experts at manipulating and naming files/folders in ways that make sense and then suddenly lost this ability. Last Chance has a new favorite as of 19:33 on Jul 8, 2022 |
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Jul 8, 2022 19:30
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LifeSunDeath posted:Imagine if this whole time it started at the A drive but like no body wanted to admit it. If your computer doesn't have an A drive, it is off topic for this thread.
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Jul 8, 2022 19:37
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VictualSquid posted:If your computer doesn't have an A drive, it is off topic for this thread. Yeah nah mine just has 8.
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Jul 8, 2022 19:39
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3D Megadoodoo posted:Yeah nah mine just has 8. DF0:
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Jul 8, 2022 19:41
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You kids with your new systems.
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Jul 8, 2022 19:42
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3D Megadoodoo posted:I use a batch file so I never go "off-line" during the workday even if I'm napping, and the sales guys think I'm some sort of whizzard.  Ever since the start of work-from-home a couple years ago, it's become an unofficial rite of passage at my company (in the tech department, anyway) to code up your own little custom mouse jiggler script.
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Jul 8, 2022 19:51
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Powered Descent posted:
Old school people put their mouse on an analog clock and the movement of the second arm makes the mouse move enough to register as active.
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Jul 8, 2022 19:57
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I explain navigating file systems to people as if they are using their kitchen. The kitchen is the C: drive, the cabinets are the folders in that, the shelves are another layer of folders, that can of tomato sauce is your file. It seems to get through?
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Jul 8, 2022 19:57
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We already had a perfect analogy to explain the relationship of files to folders, but nobody actually does filing anymore
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Jul 8, 2022 19:59
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lobsterminator posted:Old school people put their mouse on an analog clock and the movement of the second arm makes the mouse move enough to register as active. Yeah but, like, my watch is on my wrist. That's uncomfortable.
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Jul 8, 2022 20:02
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Hitachi magic wand + webVibe online dildo controller + mouse SIMPLE SOLUTION
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Jul 8, 2022 21:06
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Last Chance posted:Navigating a file system has always been a pain point for people when learning computers, look at this article from 1996: It doesn't help that nowadays, operating systems will just offer you up a shortcut to your documents folder, but never ever tell you the actual path of where that is. So you end up with a file picker that dumps you at the root of your drive and you have no idea how to get to your files. Or in Linux where you will never find anything unless you know exactly what these 3 letter abbreviations in the root folder mean. We are still stuck with these ancient conventions that only made sense because of the limitations of the hardware at the time. Like in DOS where certain commands or devices had to appear in every folder so you could use them so you still can't name a file CON or PRN nearly 50 years later.
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Jul 8, 2022 23:41
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I work in records retention and this conversation is extremely my daily existence. In our case the folder structure was dictated to mimic the literal dead tree folder organization that existed before, and the files were named according to some grognard who decided a memo written by John Smith on April 2, 1956 should be named 19560402ME_Smith_SubjectofMemo.pdf. Now it's my job to come in after that and come up with some way to translate all that into a proper records management system in searchable human language and OCR and all that.
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Jul 9, 2022 00:25
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Imagined posted:I work in records retention and this conversation is extremely my daily existence. In our case the folder structure was dictated to mimic the literal dead tree folder organization that existed before, and the files were named according to some grognard who decided a memo written by John Smith on April 2, 1956 should be named 19560402ME_Smith_SubjectofMemo.pdf. Now it's my job to come in after that and come up with some way to translate all that into a proper records management system in searchable human language and OCR and all that. I'm not saying that's a particularly pleasant job, because most jobs often are unpleasant, but it could be so very much worse than that. If that naming convention is being consistently followed it ought to be pretty straightforward.
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Jul 9, 2022 00:52
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Yay data governance
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Jul 9, 2022 00:57
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I'm Gen X so have the advantage of having grown up parallel to the development and availability of computers, but I find it weird that people have a hard time with file and folder structures. Like, do they not organize other things? Is their silverware drawer a chaotic mishmash of knives and forks and spoons all rattling around together? Is their laundry just thrown into an undifferentiated pile in the closet? Have they never visited a library?
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Jul 9, 2022 02:34
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I used to be a tech for a college Journalism department. A big part of my job was instructing students how to edit video with Premiere Pro. Half of the editing tutorial document I created had nothing to do with actually editing. It was just explaining the file system of a Windows computer. Actual scenario: 'LimitedEyes, Premiere is giving me an error, it says it can't find my video file.' 'Ok, where is the video file at? In your project folder with your other assets?' 'No it is on my thumb drive that I left at home.' 'Welp.'
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Jul 9, 2022 03:15
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CaptainSarcastic posted:I'm Gen X so have the advantage of having grown up parallel to the development and availability of computers, but I find it weird that people have a hard time with file and folder structures. Like, do they not organize other things? Is their silverware drawer a chaotic mishmash of knives and forks and spoons all rattling around together? Is their laundry just thrown into an undifferentiated pile in the closet? Have they never visited a library? When people never interact with files outside of the programs that utilize them. Calibre is a prime example, it has its own folder structure for ebooks and does not support a user-friendly folder structure. The author states clearly that he believes encoding metadata in the folder structure is wrong and all metadata should be contained in a searchable database. And he's kinda not wrong - once you use Calibre to actually manage your ebook collection, you don't go elsewhere to deeply interact with it. Even if you're like me and insist on a hand-created file system.
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Jul 9, 2022 03:19
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shootforit posted:I used to be a tech for a college Journalism department. A big part of my job was instructing students how to edit video with Premiere Pro. We've had such an issue with this for the online classes we teach that we're making a two day class that is just the basics of Windows. File Structure stuff, File Explorer isn't Internet Explorer, and so on.
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Jul 9, 2022 03:31
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Back when Windows Movie Maker was alive, we'd get some Sophomores every year turning in their 'amazing' 7 minute Cooking with Chemistry video that clocked in at like 10kb. Ever year, explaining that Save just saved their editing project and that Export was assembling the video and saving it as a completed work was mindblowing. Anyway, Zoomer tech illiteracy isn't surprising. Gen X/Millennials grew up when computers were the main interface tool and were expensive enough that you had to be trained to use them. So you got computer lab stuff drilled into you at a young age, or were fortunate enough to be able to tool around one and learn to actually take advantage of it, or iterate on your learned skills. Stuff is much more available now and easier to run/access.
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Jul 9, 2022 03:48
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Do schools still do computer lab classes? I lived in California, so our school had a bunch of computers because of Apple, so I don't know if it was even a thing everyone did back then.
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Jul 9, 2022 03:53
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In L.A., PowerPoint skills are apparently in the 3rd grade curriculum. So if they do, it's vastly different. There's also relatively less interface-wise with like Apple computers. Everyone's essentially guaranteed a chromebook in LA school district so there's that as well.
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Jul 9, 2022 03:57
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Cojawfee posted:Do schools still do computer lab classes? I lived in California, so our school had a bunch of computers because of Apple, so I don't know if it was even a thing everyone did back then. when I went to Detroit area public schools they had a computer lab, but it was mainly "how to use MS Word" and "how to Google" in High School
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Jul 9, 2022 04:06
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Cojawfee posted:It doesn't help that nowadays, operating systems will just offer you up a shortcut to your documents folder, but never ever tell you the actual path of where that is. So you end up with a file picker that dumps you at the root of your drive and you have no idea how to get to your files. Or in Linux where you will never find anything unless you know exactly what these 3 letter abbreviations in the root folder mean. We are still stuck with these ancient conventions that only made sense because of the limitations of the hardware at the time. Like in DOS where certain commands or devices had to appear in every folder so you could use them so you still can't name a file CON or PRN nearly 50 years later. Catching up to make this exact post. For the life of me I cannot figure out the logic Windows uses to locate its Documents folder (and all the other floating-in-space ones like Downloads) which is where things go when apps save them. And then if I have to find out what their actual path is, like if I want to use it in a program or something, it's some kind of diabolical maze or a dragon-guarded secret. Just tell me the path for gently caress'S sake e: and then I find myself trying to explain this to someone over the phone, "No, not the Documents folder in your Home, the Documents folder that you get if you open a new Explorer window and use the shortcut links on the left or whatever. No not those ones, oh you've got a different view, aaugh why can't I get covid from a dirty telephone and die"
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Jul 9, 2022 04:11
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There is a generation of kids coming who may have never touched anything except an iPad or something similar Even basic stuff like drag n drop and right click will be foreign to them
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Jul 9, 2022 04:16
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CaptainSarcastic posted:I'm Gen X so have the advantage of having grown up parallel to the development and availability of computers, but I find it weird that people have a hard time with file and folder structures. Like, do they not organize other things? Is their silverware drawer a chaotic mishmash of knives and forks and spoons all rattling around together? Is their laundry just thrown into an undifferentiated pile in the closet? Have they never visited a library? I would assume the issue is not that file systems are difficult to understand, it's that for younger users it was largely a background thing that you wouldn't have any reason to even know existed. Like okay if you want to look at your pictures they're all available through the camera or photo viewer, you don't need to navigate to where they are stored or even know that they are stored independently from the app. It's the same thing grogs were mad about when windows became a thing. They thought that a gui would let any old idiot use computer and then they would gently caress it up by not actually understanding anything about it. I had an uncle who sat me down with an old dos manual and a 386 ibm compatible and made me learn chapter by chapter how to navigate and use dos, and i thought those anti windows nerds were engaging in pointless gatekeeping but it turns out they were right
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Jul 9, 2022 04:19
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'hide extensions for known file types'
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Jul 9, 2022 06:38
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Tunicate posted:'hide extensions for known file types' It's hard to estimate the number of years it's been that toggling that off has been part of my Windows install process.
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Jul 9, 2022 07:30
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I mean, I think this is pretty normal. When technologies are new and rough (and simpler) you need to understand them more to operate them and they're easier to understand at a low level. It's the same with general electronics knowledge, or cars, or other 'enthusiast' technologies.
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Jul 9, 2022 08:24
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rndmnmbr posted:When people never interact with files outside of the programs that utilize them. This assumes that only a single program interacts with a single file type. In MacOS this is common. You access your photos with Photos.app and music with Music.app. And if you want to access the media from other programs MacOS offers an API for it. It obfuscates what files the user actually has and what they should backup. Add Cloud to the mess and pretty soon people will just assume that all files are some abstract entities in some mysterious cloud. And most people don't even have their own music libraries anymore, but even Spotify has a tiny selection. There are lots of things in my music library that is not available in streaming.
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Jul 9, 2022 10:21
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I HATE the trend for organising everything by file type into separate folders or libraries. I don't want my holiday photos kept in My Photos and my holiday videos kept in a separate media library. I want them kept together - you know, like a human being would do.
Sweevo has a new favorite as of 11:22 on Jul 9, 2022 |
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Jul 9, 2022 11:15
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FilthyImp posted:In L.A., PowerPoint skills are apparently in the 3rd grade curriculum. When I went to college in 1996 you couldn't assume everyone was already computer literate, and most courses had an optional class where they would teach you to use basic software like Word, Excel, Powerpoint, etc. There was a certain type of student who would refuse to take the class and then try to muddle through using the wrong software. The number of times I saw people in the computer lab writing essays in Powerpoint...
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Jul 9, 2022 11:20
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:There is a generation of kids coming who may have never touched anything except an iPad or something similar I already run into people at work that are always online yet have no concept of what a file is or how to type on a physical keyboard.
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Jul 9, 2022 14:27
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I just installed kodi on a fire stick to play files from my nas. I have a downloads folder within my video folder where new stuff ends up before being organized. The files in that folder do not get indexed. They are invisible to kodi for god knows what actual reason. This is not fixable from inside kodi. I'm sure there's an internal logic to explicitly exclude that folder based on something, but this is unknowable. And if it's documented somewhere, it is a translation error specific to kodi instead of a thing that broadly applies to most computer systems in the last fifty years. I'm not against novel ways to organize our look at data, but the reality is that it's a translation layer on top of actual files and folders and now I have to understand how both systems work if anything goes wrong.
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Jul 9, 2022 15:20
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