CanPol 2024: the religious experience of pissing on dolphins

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(Thread IKs: ZShakespeare)

Coxswain Balls: Jun 4, 2001

Baronjutter posted:

Was just at a baseball game and something was sponsored by Rogers. The entire stadium erupted into boos.

That rules.

Looks to be back up for me, but HSPA only, not getting an LTE connection.

# ? Jul 9, 2022 09:05

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 17:01

mom and dad fight a lot: Sep 21, 2006; Can't post for 22 days!

gently caress you BC. You were swinging your dicks in 2020 about how well you managed the pandemic, but you're just a bunch of bumbling fuckups like everyone else.

BA.5 is starting a third wave of Omicron in Ontario, Quebec, and BC�and likely the rest of the country this summer. To the point that doctors are urging 2nd boosters, and the Minister of Health doesn't even consider two doses as "fully immunized". PEI has already opened 2nd boosters to ages 12 and up. Ontario has indicated 2nd boosters can't be offered until more people get their 1st booster. That's particularly dumb, because only 49% of Canadians got a booster, and that doesn't really look like it's gonna budge.

But today, BC announced that despite:

it being >6 months since most of us have had a booster (the point where NACI admits waning immunity is a concern);
a third wave of Omicron infections is already beginning;
most provinces are lifting existing restrictions and mitigation strategies;
tourism season is kicking off;
BA.5�driving the third wave�is particularly adept at shrugging off current immunizations; and
this week alone, BC had a 35% increase in hospitalizations,

BC strongly recommends waiting until the FALL until getting your 2nd booster. They're betting on a bivalent (i.e. Omicron-specific) vaccine being available by then, which better targets Omicron subvariants, and NACI is predicting another wave this fall (as if it's not already here).

Oh, but you CAN get your 2nd booster now if you strongly feel like you need it. It's just that if you do, you have to wait six months before you can get the bivalent vaccine, assuming it's ready by this fall. BC residents are being asked to choose between getting 2nd booster protection now (this summer, during a 3rd wave), or gambling on a bivalent vaccine being available this fall. You don't get to have both.

This is incredibly loving stupid, and totally counterproductive to the vaccine program BC claims to promote.

There's NO GUARANTEE that the bivalent vaccine will be ready this fall
If it is available, there's no guarantee that it will be available for YOUNGER age groups
It took months before the original vaccine was available to 30+ years old. A similar rollout could mean that age group doesn't get a bivalent vaccine until DECEMBER at the earliest
BC has already thrown away well over 650,000 doses that could be going in arms instead
Did I mention that we're already starting a loving third wave, at a time where many people's immunity are waning because their last booster was 6+ months ago?

Straight up: The people who want 2nd booster protection now, should be allowed to have it without losing access to the bivalent vaccine this fall�assuming it's ready by then. Many of us are facing waning immunity because our last booster being so long ago, and we shouldn't be asked to gamble our health this summer on the bivalent vaccine being available on time. That is totally unacceptable. gently caress you Adrian Dix.

# ? Jul 9, 2022 11:50

Nick Biped: May 22, 2004; In the wrong hands, the stapler is a deadly weapon.

Finally back after being in Rogers purgatory here in southwestern Ontario (probably came back sometime during the night, but whatever). Seems a bit slower than before, but at least it's working.

I currently have a hybrid job and yesterday was my day to go into the office anyways, so the system failing didn't affect me thankfully enough, but I felt bad for those that had to make an unexpected trip in. I'm just glad the office uses Bell. It would've been "fun" if we relied on Rogers there too.

# ? Jul 9, 2022 13:18

Oxyclean: Sep 23, 2007

I'm annoyed to find out my workplace apparently stayed online cause I couldn't be assed to deal with commuting in cause I didn't think it would be a day long outage.

# ? Jul 9, 2022 13:50

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

https://twitter.com/thejagmeetsingh/status/1545486629061775360?s=21

Boy, will he be sad when he finds out who is supporting the Liberal government!

# ? Jul 9, 2022 15:51

pokeyman: Nov 26, 2006; That elephant ate my entire platoon.

Like a dummy I clicked on the tweet so I could see the next tweet in the thread that would surely begin "that's why an NDP government will�", and that's when I learned it was not a thread.

# ? Jul 9, 2022 16:04

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

What is even the point of the federal NDP? They've basically agreed to prop up the Liberal minority government, and occasionally they point out that the Liberal government has done a bad thing, but without ever proposing an alternative or making the case that you should vote NDP instead.

Who is their target audience? How do they intend to make electoral progress when they essentially go out of their way to be non-entities? Is their strategy to sit around and hope for victory by voters wandering into the polling place and marking their ballot at random?

# ? Jul 9, 2022 16:27

apatheticman: May 13, 2003; Wedge Regret

PT6A posted:

Who is their target audience?

Liberals who like to pretend they're leftists but won't lift a finger to do anything

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Jul 9, 2022 16:36

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

apatheticman posted:

Liberals who like to pretend they're leftists but won't lift a finger to do anything

I thought that was Trudeau's bread and butter.

Well, I suppose that's why the NDP is not doing so hot right now...

# ? Jul 9, 2022 16:43

Alctel: Jan 16, 2004; I love snails

mom and dad fight a lot posted:

gently caress you BC. You were swinging your dicks in 2020 about how well you managed the pandemic, but you're just a bunch of bumbling fuckups like everyone else.

BA.5 is starting a third wave of Omicron in Ontario, Quebec, and BC�and likely the rest of the country this summer. To the point that doctors are urging 2nd boosters, and the Minister of Health doesn't even consider two doses as "fully immunized". PEI has already opened 2nd boosters to ages 12 and up. Ontario has indicated 2nd boosters can't be offered until more people get their 1st booster. That's particularly dumb, because only 49% of Canadians got a booster, and that doesn't really look like it's gonna budge.

But today, BC announced that despite:

it being >6 months since most of us have had a booster (the point where NACI admits waning immunity is a concern);

a third wave of Omicron infections is already beginning;

most provinces are lifting existing restrictions and mitigation strategies;

tourism season is kicking off;

BA.5�driving the third wave�is particularly adept at shrugging off current immunizations; and

this week alone, BC had a 35% increase in hospitalizations,
BC strongly recommends waiting until the FALL until getting your 2nd booster. They're betting on a bivalent (i.e. Omicron-specific) vaccine being available by then, which better targets Omicron subvariants, and NACI is predicting another wave this fall (as if it's not already here).

Oh, but you CAN get your 2nd booster now if you strongly feel like you need it. It's just that if you do, you have to wait six months before you can get the bivalent vaccine, assuming it's ready by this fall. BC residents are being asked to choose between getting 2nd booster protection now (this summer, during a 3rd wave), or gambling on a bivalent vaccine being available this fall. You don't get to have both.

This is incredibly loving stupid, and totally counterproductive to the vaccine program BC claims to promote.

There's NO GUARANTEE that the bivalent vaccine will be ready this fall

If it is available, there's no guarantee that it will be available for YOUNGER age groups

It took months before the original vaccine was available to 30+ years old. A similar rollout could mean that age group doesn't get a bivalent vaccine until DECEMBER at the earliest

BC has already thrown away well over 650,000 doses that could be going in arms instead

Did I mention that we're already starting a loving third wave, at a time where many people's immunity are waning because their last booster was 6+ months ago?
Straight up: The people who want 2nd booster protection now, should be allowed to have it without losing access to the bivalent vaccine this fall�assuming it's ready by then. Many of us are facing waning immunity because our last booster being so long ago, and we shouldn't be asked to gamble our health this summer on the bivalent vaccine being available on time. That is totally unacceptable. gently caress you Adrian Dix.

If you get a booster in July/August, you won't be eligible for another booster for six months anyway, that's pretty much universal everywhere i thought based on medical advice?

If you are that worried, why not just get the booster now - it's still pretty good and will definately help keep you out of hospital at the very least

# ? Jul 9, 2022 17:27

Xaranthius: Nov 27, 2002; Grimey Drawer

Alctel posted:

If you get a booster in July/August, you won't be eligible for another booster for six months anyway, that's pretty much universal everywhere i thought based on medical advice?

If you are that worried, why not just get the booster now - it's still pretty good and will definately help keep you out of hospital at the very least

This was my thought as well. The saying "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" came to mind too. I'll gladly take a second booster now versus some potential better shot months from now and increasing waning immunity between now and then.

# ? Jul 9, 2022 18:38

Furnaceface: Oct 21, 2004

I think the argument is that the messaging from the BC government is needlessly confusing and going to cause a bunch of people to miss out on updating their vaccines at a time when cases are once again rising.

# ? Jul 9, 2022 18:46

Mr. Mercury: Aug 13, 2021

I mean, that's pretty much default from that office.

# ? Jul 9, 2022 18:50

AegisP: Oct 5, 2008

Ontario's messaging is similarly unclear:

quote:

Ontario�s chief medical officer of health says with the province well into the seventh wave of COVID-19, as early as next week, second booster shots are expected to be made available for everyone aged 18 to 59.

In an interview with Dr. Kieran Moore, the province�s top doctor tells CityNews that the second booster dose would not preclude Ontarians from another follow-up shot three months later, as it would be re-formulated to add additional layers of protection.

...

The province�s top doctor says no one should delay getting a second booster shot once eligible.

�You will again be eligible in the fall for this vaccine,� Dr. Moore says.

Okay great...

quote:

Ontario�s chief medical officer of health reiterated that three months is typically the amount of time advised to wait between getting vaccinated.

However, Dr. Moore says they could extend that to five or six months if someone were vaccinated in July.

�We�re making sure we have the capacity if we have an increase in individuals coming forward to get immunized in the days and week,� the top doctor says. �We can open up further and are reviewing that on a daily basis.�

So to understand: get your second booster now, it won't preclude you from getting the tailored booster in the fall, unless we just spontaneously decide in the fall that you need 6 months window instead of 3.

# ? Jul 9, 2022 18:50

COPE 27: Sep 11, 2006

Pretty hosed up that the NDP is getting some of their legislative priorities instead of forcing an election that wipes them out financially and probably electorally

# ? Jul 9, 2022 19:04

funny song about politics: Feb 11, 2002

I think the bivalent Moderna vaccine has been submitted for approval to Health Can, and there�s essentially no chance that it won�t receive approval. So provided they have enough doses in the fall, I think it�s worth the wait. This is especially true since summer affords so many more opportunities for outdoor, low risk activities.

But I am also a bit skeptical that they�ll be able to pull together a mass bivalent booster program by the fall. There just doesn�t seem to be any preparation for it from PHAC. It�s an open question how successful such a campaign would even be. Booster uptake is not great, especially for the fourth shot, but polls indicate that a decent percent of Canadians would consider a booster if it were variant-specific. Also they�re probably going to try to ditch the term �booster� as it�s not popular among the general public.

# ? Jul 9, 2022 19:25

mom and dad fight a lot: Sep 21, 2006; Can't post for 22 days!

AegisP posted:

So to understand: get your second booster now, it won't preclude you from getting the tailored booster in the fall, unless we just spontaneously decide in the fall that you need 6 months window instead of 3.

Which isn't what BC is doing. They're making people choose between getting 2nd booster protection now, or gamble on a bivalent vaccine being ready this fall (for all age groups�which is probably won't).

BA.5 is a particularly good escape artist, and it's absolutely driving the 3rd Omicron wave. A bivalent vaccine targets these subvariants a lot better, which the current inoculations are struggling with. BC is in a particularly vulnerable place right now with BA.5 driving up hospitalizations, tourism kicking off, many other provinces lifting restrictions, and much of the province having waning immunity from their last booster being more than six months ago. We shouldn't be asked to give up protection now during a critical time, hoping that the bivalent vaccine will be:

approved on time
produced in sufficient numbers on time
procured by the government on time
available to all age groups quickly

If it rolls out as slowly as the original vaccines, my age group might not be eligible for an Omicron-targeted vaccine until December/January.

If there's a vaccine supply shortage, fine. But the province needs to be open about it, and explain why this is suddenly a problem. They're asking residents to gamble with their health when their immunity is weakest, and the dominant variant can breakthrough the easiest. That's total horseshit when they've thrown out well over 650,000 doses already and we're beginning a new wave.

mom and dad fight a lot fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Jul 9, 2022

# ? Jul 9, 2022 19:35

Mr. Apollo: Nov 8, 2000

PT6A posted:

https://twitter.com/thejagmeetsingh/status/1545486629061775360?s=21

Boy, will he be sad when he finds out who is supporting the Liberal government!

The issue I have with the �we need more competition� argument for preventing more outages is that without strong regulations and meaningful enforcement, we�ll just have 20 crappy telecoms instead of 3 big ones.

# ? Jul 9, 2022 19:37

Trapick: Apr 17, 2006

Mr. Apollo posted:

The issue I have with the “we need more competition” argument for preventing more outages is that without strong regulations and meaningful enforcement, we’ll just have 20 crappy telecoms instead of 3 big ones.

Isn't the NDP position they should be nationalized rather than just opened up to competition? Or is that wishful thinking on my part.

# ? Jul 9, 2022 19:56

Mr. Apollo: Nov 8, 2000

Trapick posted:

Isn't the NDP position they should be nationalized rather than just opened up to competition? Or is that wishful thinking on my part.

Apparently, from their 2021 policy convention:

quote:

The NDP will actively campaign to nationalize the telecommunications infrastructure sector by proposing a national strategy for broadband Internet services and establishing a public telecommunications company offering services at a lower cost;

They mention that Section 6.10 of their policy book details their plans but I couldn�t find it.

# ? Jul 9, 2022 20:13

Alctel: Jan 16, 2004; I love snails

If you are that worried, just get a booster shot now and the variant one when you become eligible. I think you are overthinking this a bit

# ? Jul 9, 2022 21:07

Trapick: Apr 17, 2006

Alctel posted:

If you are that worried, just get a booster shot now and the variant one when you become eligible. I think you are overthinking this a bit

I think the issue is, if you get it now, you can't get another until January because BC uses min 6 months between boosters (is that the medical consensus, I don't know). Some people would like to get one now, and if a covariant one is approved in like October, another one then.

# ? Jul 9, 2022 23:24

Mr. Apollo: Nov 8, 2000

My parents got their second booster yesterday here in Ontario. They loaded up the new vaccine certificate on their iPhones and the Health app vaccine certificate in the iPhone Wallet can only show 3 vaccines at a time. However, you can see that they got all four (two vaccines and two boosters) if you look at the PDF certificate from the Ministry of Health or go clicking through the Health app.

# ? Jul 9, 2022 23:28

bunnyofdoom: Mar 29, 2008; THE HATE CRIME DEFENDER HAS LOGGED ON

I got my 4th shot in Ontario three months ago.

Turns out the secret is being extremely immunocompromised a

# ? Jul 9, 2022 23:42

Another Bill: Sep 27, 2018; I stumbled ass-backwards into a comfortable, easy life for reasons beyond my comprehension and now I think I'm better than you for it.

I don't know what about the covid vaccine experience of the last 2 years makes anyone think they'll be on time and available to Canadians in the fall. Take the 4th booster offered now, worry about the rest in 5-6 months.

# ? Jul 9, 2022 23:43

Another Bill: Sep 27, 2018; I stumbled ass-backwards into a comfortable, easy life for reasons beyond my comprehension and now I think I'm better than you for it.

Whats more important for public health is getting 3rd doses in arms but that seems to be completely stalled out at this point.

# ? Jul 9, 2022 23:46

Precambrian Video Games: Aug 19, 2002

The situation could not be more clear. The CDC recommends that all American adults get the 1st booster, and the majority of those who bothered to do so at all did it 6-7 months ago. The CDC also reports that booster effectiveness declines measurably after 4 months, so therefore, adults 50+ should get a second booster. Adults under 50 who aren't immunocompromised or otherwise eligible should follow all local mandatory safety precautions, which include

Meanwhile, Health Canada and the provinces mostly follow the CDC's lead, just with a noticeable delay and/or stinginess (still only 60+ in most places?).

Another Bill posted:

I don't know what about the covid vaccine experience of the last 2 years makes anyone think they'll be on time and available to Canadians in the fall. Take the 4th booster offered now, worry about the rest in 5-6 months.

... and if you're in the sizeable majority of adults who are not eligible, just lie to get it anyway and hope for the best or what??? Most people who are eligible have been for months and should already have their 2nd boosters. Everyone else, see the very clear clarifications above.

# ? Jul 10, 2022 00:38

kaom: Jan 20, 2007

I see some people talking about the booster being offered now and taking it if we want to. The fourth dose, that second booster, is not available in BC to anyone under 70 unless you�re high risk. That�s why some of us are upset about this.

�BC Gov� posted:

We understand some people have unique needs and getting a booster dose in July or August might be best for them. This is okay, but not recommended.

If you're 18 or older and you have unique needs, the call centre can help you book an appointment. Don�t phone until you�ve received a fall booster update email or SMS.

I�m already six months from my first booster (overall dose #3), but they�re asking us to wait. Meanwhile, there are basically no restrictions whatsoever, not even indoor masking which seems to me like a complete no-brainer thing to have never lifted. I also really want them to bring back the vaccine passports when the bivalent option is available since the vaccine will mean something significant about transmission again, but I have zero faith any government will do it. :smith:

Last fall with the passports and before omicron hit was the only time I felt comfortable doing optional indoor activities like movies again.

# ? Jul 10, 2022 02:15

angerbot: Mar 23, 2004; plob

Another Bill posted:

Whats more important for public health is getting 3rd doses in arms but that seems to be completely stalled out at this point.

It's been stalled for months, I will take the gentle road here and assume people were simply waiting for the fall, but there's no reason to not offer fourth shots to the boosted <65s and simply get more vaccine after.

# ? Jul 10, 2022 02:44

bub spank: Feb 1, 2005; the THRILL

kaom posted:

I see some people talking about the booster being offered now and taking it if we want to. The fourth dose, that second booster, is not available in BC to anyone under 70 unless you�re high risk. That�s why some of us are upset about this.

It�s the same in Saskatchewan. I got my 3rd dose in December, and I�ll get another booster whenever I�m eligible. But nobody under 50 is eligible right now, and Scott Moe recently said that he doesn�t know when people under 50 might be eligible. My understanding is that pharmacies are just throwing away unused and expired vaccines because of the generally low uptake in the province and the age restriction on second boosters.

# ? Jul 10, 2022 04:13

enki42: Jun 11, 2001; #ATMLIVESMATTER

Put this Nazi-lover on ignore immediately!

bunnyofdoom posted:

I got my 4th shot in Ontario three months ago.

Turns out the secret is being extremely immunocompromised a

If you're extra super immunocomprimised even your 2nd booster is well out of date now! (got my 4th on the first week of Jan)

Seems like the plan is to just pump us full of antibodies for the time being (i.e. Evushield)

# ? Jul 10, 2022 04:17

Nitr0: Aug 17, 2005; IT'S FREE REAL ESTATE

Mr. Apollo posted:

The issue I have with the �we need more competition� argument for preventing more outages is that without strong regulations and meaningful enforcement, we�ll just have 20 crappy telecoms instead of 3 big ones.

This is wrong. You need to force conduit sharing, reduce cost to hang fibre on poles, figure out how sharing works in MDU�s, get cheap transport across the country, and the more the better. You�ll never end up worse off with more competition.

# ? Jul 10, 2022 04:24

Trapick: Apr 17, 2006

bub spank posted:

My understanding is that pharmacies are just throwing away unused and expired vaccines because of the generally low uptake in the province and the age restriction on second boosters.

It's this part that pisses me off. If we need to triage vaccines because we don't have enough (like with the initial doses), absolutely fair, I'm fine waiting. But BC seems to have lots and is just reluctant to open up second boosters to whoever wants them because...why?

# ? Jul 10, 2022 04:32

Darude - Adam Sandstorm: Aug 16, 2012

Just wanna say gently caress the Ontario government and the TTC. Almost 100% guaranteed I got covid on the TTC last weekend since masks aren't mandatory cause why should they be when those little windows are open!

# ? Jul 10, 2022 04:51

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

Mask are now "strongly recommended" on the TTC and there are only slightly fewer people wearing them than when they were mandatory.

People didn't wear them when they were mandatory either

# ? Jul 10, 2022 04:56

Mr. Apollo: Nov 8, 2000

When I downloaded my parents vaccine certificate for their second booster it had a note in bold at the top that said something like �Remember, showing proof of vaccination is no longer mandatory in Ontario�. OK, but they�re messaging the wrong crowd with that.

# ? Jul 10, 2022 05:08

Darude - Adam Sandstorm: Aug 16, 2012

infernal machines posted:

Mask are now "strongly recommended" on the TTC and there are only slightly fewer people wearing them than when they were mandatory.

People didn't wear them when they were mandatory either

It's almost as though a deadline to masking enforcement preceded with 0 enforcement doesn't work very well!!!

# ? Jul 10, 2022 06:37

Maneck: Sep 11, 2011

enki42 posted:

If you're extra super immunocomprimised even your 2nd booster is well out of date now! (got my 4th on the first week of Jan)

Not limited to the immunocompromised! It seems like the protection starts to decrease after three months, and is significantly diminished after six. The things should probably be a twice a year flu shot. Yet a fourth dose remains only available for 60+ in Ontario (and the immunocompromised, or those adjacent to them).

# ? Jul 10, 2022 12:58

Kraftwerk: Aug 13, 2011; i do not have 10,000 bircoins, please stop asking

I�ve only had two doses and a bout of Omicron during the holiday season. At this point I�m weighing my options but don�t see a point in getting vaccinated until they come up with a new version of the vaccine.

# ? Jul 10, 2022 14:23

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 17:01

Precambrian Video Games: Aug 19, 2002

Kraftwerk posted:

I�ve only had two doses and a bout of Omicron during the holiday season. At this point I�m weighing my options but don�t see a point in getting vaccinated until they come up with a new version of the vaccine.

The point would be to help prevent serious illness in case of re-infection with omicron, which happens quite a lot especially if there's a new subvariant (which there is). Hope that helps!

# ? Jul 10, 2022 14:46

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > CanPol 2024: the religious experience of pissing on dolphins

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