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goatsestretchgoals posted:^^ To respond specifically to you: thanks but gently caress no, if we have a work stoppage because we run out of floppy disks then I will laugh as bossman goes on eBay to source more. I will also cry as I have to use the loving BOOT FLOPPY on our slightly more ancient lathe to move programs around. as someone who works IT for manufacturing places hell yeah. Only way they'll even think about updating.
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Jul 9, 2022 17:55
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Also forgot: trying to get C&C1 and Falcon4 running on my new at the time computer gave me enough DOS background to tech these lathes; control program is literally named OMNI2.EXE, and it is included at the end of AUTOEXEC.BAT because they loving run on DOS 5. 3 of my lathes have early 586-era processors, the one that boots from floppy is a 486-DX.
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Jul 9, 2022 17:59
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goatface posted:I might even have some 5.25" somewhere. HD or DD tho?
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Jul 9, 2022 18:04
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Would have to dig them up to find out.
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Jul 9, 2022 18:12
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TehRedWheelbarrow posted:as someone who works IT for manufacturing places hell yeah. Only way they'll even think about updating. my wave solder machine and both of my promation labelers run on extremely specific Dell computers running copies of XP that deactivated a decade ago and will permanently shut down my factory 8 months prior to the actual death date if they ever touch the internet, it's awesome. One of the labelers needed a new mobo a few months ago and we had to label 2 SMD lines worth of boards on one unit for ~5 weeks while they hunted one down, it was loving chaos.
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Jul 9, 2022 18:15
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If your CNC uses floppies for program transfer you can replace the drives with those GOTEK ones. They've worked in every machine I've put them in to and it's way easier using a flash stick than a floppy.
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Jul 9, 2022 18:49
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goatsestretchgoals posted:Also forgot: trying to get C&C1 and Falcon4 running on my new at the time computer gave me enough DOS background to tech these lathes; control program is literally named OMNI2.EXE, and it is included at the end of AUTOEXEC.BAT because they loving run on DOS 5. It's shocking how out-of-date even a lot of the new machines are. I did some poking around in 2019 to see what the actual hardware under the hood was on our machines. One of our brand new mills with a Fanuc 31i-B5 control was running on a Core 2 Duo. If it works it works, I guess 
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Jul 9, 2022 18:52
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There is no better FMEA data source than 20 years of consumer use of a part.
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Jul 9, 2022 18:55
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Industrial processors are amazing.
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Jul 9, 2022 19:08
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MrQwerty posted:my wave solder machine and both of my promation labelers run on extremely specific Dell computers running copies of XP that deactivated a decade ago and will permanently shut down my factory 8 months prior to the actual death date if they ever touch the internet, it's awesome. Yeah. Maybe pull the hard drives and image them, 'cause the drives are gonna die someday probably soon.
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Jul 9, 2022 20:10
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new multi million dollar mazak machines are running windows 7
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Jul 9, 2022 20:24
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mllaneza posted:Yeah. Maybe pull the hard drives and image them, 'cause the drives are gonna die someday probably soon. Nah if you do that they will die when you put them back in and it will be your fault somehow
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Jul 9, 2022 20:26
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Just let me tell you how many things are being run on ancient PLCs (programmable logic controllers) Ive seen. We have 2 breadbin Pcs and ISA cards from the late 80s in them to talk to the old PLCs, a t3 programming terminal for the ancient ones (all Allen Bradley).
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Jul 9, 2022 20:32
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mllaneza posted:Yeah. Maybe pull the hard drives and image them, 'cause the drives are gonna die someday probably soon. I'm an operator, the checked out engineers are responsible for that lmao pretty sure they did because they bought a bunch of new parts for both of them after the response of the operators to the "run 1 labeler all day 24/5" fiasco. They did have to buy a new mobo for the other one a few weeks ago because of a power surge during a high wind (which is a thing in plants in NM), but it only took like 5 days this time and wasn't so much a hiccup now that they have a part source. Let's Run This poo poo Into the Ground! is what we're doing, 100% MrQwerty fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Jul 9, 2022 |
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Jul 9, 2022 20:32
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Karia posted:It's shocking how out-of-date even a lot of the new machines are. I did some poking around in 2019 to see what the actual hardware under the hood was on our machines. One of our brand new mills with a Fanuc 31i-B5 control was running on a Core 2 Duo. If it works it works, I guess Certain Intel processors are marked for long term service/will be made for a long time. I think they're generally categorized as "industrial". That's probably the one that was most appropriate when the design was made and allowed them to know they could support making that same design for 10+ years because they would be able to get the CPU they needed for at least that long.
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Jul 9, 2022 21:09
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operating systems is utter laziness though
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Jul 9, 2022 21:37
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TehRedWheelbarrow posted:operating systems is utter laziness though Maybe, maybe not. It seems a whole lot like retail versions of windows might not be the correct choice for something you want to spec once for 10+ years. There are a lot of things still running on XP Embedded and similar though, which seem much more appropriate for this type of use.
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Jul 9, 2022 21:50
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sure, but the idea that even given a full updating budget that I cant buy huge capital expense level machines running anything more modern than 7 still blows my mind. i mean i found a conficker worm in the wild this friggin year. the heck.
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Jul 9, 2022 22:08
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So one of our problems is that the ~30 year old motherboard batteries are dead and every time we reboot we have to pull the floppy out (or make one settings change in the BIOS). I had a half hour discussion with the owner about brittle cables, half the poo poo in the box I’m scared of (big rear end capacitors), and the other half I was good at swapping…in TYOOL 2000. We decided that telling the BIOS to look at C first every Monday was the better plan.
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Jul 9, 2022 23:51
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goatsestretchgoals posted:So one of our problems is that the ~30 year old motherboard batteries are dead and every time we reboot we have to pull the floppy out (or make one settings change in the BIOS). Uhhh how business critical is this piece of hardware?
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Jul 9, 2022 23:54
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Zil posted:Uhhh how business critical is this piece of hardware? Oh you know the answer to that question
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Jul 10, 2022 00:14
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3 shifts critical production line will stop and die
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Jul 10, 2022 00:16
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Zil posted:Uhhh how business critical is this piece of hardware? Critical enough that the idea of having a commodity processor that they could source for years means they should also have parts like the CMOS battery (likely a CR2023) and power supplies/caps and cables also sourceable for years and swapped on a sane maintenance schedule. Since none of this is ever done I assume downtime will be something of a level that can put the company at risk of insolvency.
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Jul 10, 2022 00:18
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Thankfully, I no longer work at this place, but the manager at the daycare/preschool I did time at was wildly incompetent. Heart of gold, but not management material. Rather than figure out the break schedule or anything important, she would laminate. This involved printing out large letters to make a sign that would get taken down in a week. Then she would carefully cut out all of those letters (not words, letters). Next, the letters were laminated. After that, they were carefully cut out once more, then finally glued to a poster board. She never reused letters. Once, there was an ice storm and the roads we unsafe so a bunch of teachers called out. We got a lovely, passive aggressive note that said next time we should spend the night at the home of one of our coworkers who lived closer to work so we could walk. People who had worked there for along time would call dibs on time off during holidays years in advance. A newer hire had the audacity to also want a couple of days off at Christmas, so the manager decided holiday time off would be determined by drawing names from a hat. If you won, you couldn’t have that holiday off until everyone else who wanted it got a turn. We had monthly meetings that were also training sessions. These were PowerPoint presentations that explained in detail how to clean a table. Or, we would have to cut out pictures of pants and glue them to a poster labeled “in dress code” “not in dress code.” I had a kid in my class (school age) who had pretty intense behavioral issues. Kid would get incredibly enraged over seemingly unimportant things and would often get violent. You can’t teach when you are trying to keep a child from throwing chairs, large wooden blocks, punching/kicking others, etc. The manager suggested turning to the iPad that had a program with suggestions for kids acting up. That kid wasn’t acting up. That kid needed behavioral therapy. The app on the iPad suggested giving the kid a rock (to focus on or something) and do breathing exercises. A rock. There’s so much more. So much. She made that job so much more stressful than it needed to be. In the last year or so that I worked there, I spent an hour every morning dry heaving from stress. On my last day, it took everything in me to not take a poo poo in the drat laminator.
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Jul 10, 2022 00:36
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On cnc chat I had great luck setting up our older machines as ftp clients with Filezilla on the programmers computers. Fast as hell vs floppies and a great work around for the machine being unable to handle a filename over 6 characters. Also allows for cam programs over 1.4mb to be loaded. My favorite part is the oldest all display their available memory as bytes and it counts down rapidly as you load a program. It feels like living in the future the 80s imagined. Luckily we're in a spot where they only handle kind of bonus work and aren't critical. They've all had their computers guts replaced multiple times at about $1500 a shot for used ebay stuff.
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Jul 10, 2022 01:22
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Motronic posted:Critical enough that the idea of having a commodity processor that they could source for years means they should also have parts like the CMOS battery (likely a CR2023) and power supplies/caps and cables also sourceable for years and swapped on a sane maintenance schedule. I agree with all of this. … E: To better respond, yes these 4 lathes are effectively our entire second operation department. We could run 2op on our big boy lathes…except their time is budgeted out for months, much like my smaller lathes. If poo poo broke on Monday at 7am, we would have a band aid before noon. IDK what that band aid looks like but it’s probably ugly as poo poo. goatsestretchgoals fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Jul 10, 2022 |
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Jul 10, 2022 05:45
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Shithouse Dave posted:I don’t know how attached you are to living in Japan, but there are frequently brewing jobs coming up in New Zealand. The industry is (mostly) a bit nicer and more collegial. The brewers guild website has job postings and might be worth keeping an eye on if you’re in a position to move. https://www.brewersguild.org.nz/careers/jobs/ I'm mostly happy with my job right now. Just blows my mind that someone couldn't bother to drag a mop around in the cold room.
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Jul 10, 2022 07:53
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Motronic posted:I thought this question was about the SALARIED people not getting paid because they didn't report their hours, which are irrelevant to their pay because they are SALARIED. No. No one in the company, not even the owner, is salaried. Everyone is hourly. ETA -- When the complaint came in about that, the owner told my husband that they knew it was frustrating, but to just pay the standard 40 hours. They would go back later and readjust the pay as needed. When my husband asked about how to recoup any lost money from overpayment, there was a kind of shrug. As it stands, they are currently just operating on the agreement with late employees will take a hit to their pay the next week if they get overpaid. I told him this is a huge mess just waiting to blow up. BrideOfUglycat fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Jul 10, 2022 |
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Jul 10, 2022 20:37
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MrQwerty posted:my wave solder machine and both of my promation labelers run on extremely specific Dell computers running copies of XP that deactivated a decade ago and will permanently shut down my factory 8 months prior to the actual death date if they ever touch the internet, it's awesome. Last Summer I got roped into tracking down a very specific Dell laptop model running Windows XP because the laptop in use finally died and they needed the exact same thing to replace it. After jumping through a bunch of hoops to get approval to buy something off eBay for a government program it turned out that the laptop I sourced and everyone said was what they needed had XP Service Pack 2 installed while they needed Service Pack 1. Just about everything in that job related to computers was like that. It was always complete insanity because a lot of our systems were not meant to be replicated for 20+ years, but upgraded and revised every few years to keep up with technological changes. Instead, everyone just assumed that the same stuff would be around forever and despite learning several harsh lessons in the last few years have not figured out redesigns are going to be required for most of the systems we make.
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Jul 11, 2022 12:39
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Lazyfire posted:Last Summer I got roped into tracking down a very specific Dell laptop model running Windows XP because the laptop in use finally died and they needed the exact same thing to replace it. After jumping through a bunch of hoops to get approval to buy something off eBay for a government program it turned out that the laptop I sourced and everyone said was what they needed had XP Service Pack 2 installed while they needed Service Pack 1. Real talk, and not trying to give you a hard time personally, but - buying a laptop on eBay and trusting the operating system image it comes loaded with may not be a wise decision for something critical or for government use. Reformatting it would also solve that specific OS version requirement at once, so it's a twofer.
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Jul 11, 2022 14:31
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TITTIEKISSER69 posted:And Malaria Mondays! Hell in my office with the amount of people getting sick, Whooping Cough Wednesday might just be a real thing
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Jul 11, 2022 14:54
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Scarlet Fever Sundays
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Jul 11, 2022 14:59
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Lazyfire posted:Just about everything in that job related to computers was like that. It was always complete insanity because a lot of our systems were not meant to be replicated for 20+ years, but upgraded and revised every few years to keep up with technological changes. Instead, everyone just assumed that the same stuff would be around forever and despite learning several harsh lessons in the last few years have not figured out redesigns are going to be required for most of the systems we make. There's a lot of that with my equipment, and there's another major hurdle with our equipment, specifically a software hurdle: German-designed industrial software is poo poo. poo poo. I've seen it covered in other threads, maybe this one? But just... loving... just design software in the most obtuse, unusable way possible and then put the absolute bare minimum into translation work. Jesus christ I never want to use German industrial software again after 10 years of Bosch, Ersa, my in-house, all of it. This is as an operator, I don't even want to know what IT and eng deal with on their end with this complete loving garbage trash.
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Jul 11, 2022 15:12
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MrQwerty posted:There's a lot of that with my equipment, and there's another major hurdle with our equipment, specifically a software hurdle: German-designed industrial software is poo poo. poo poo. I've seen it covered in other threads, maybe this one? But just... loving... just design software in the most obtuse, unusable way possible and then put the absolute bare minimum into translation work. Jesus christ I never want to use German industrial software again after 10 years of Bosch, Ersa, my in-house, all of it. This is as an operator, I don't even want to know what IT and eng deal with on their end with this complete loving garbage trash. Ugh Siemens relay configuration software. gently caress you Siemens
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Jul 11, 2022 15:16
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Of course there are long-term support embedded systems versions of windows (and for Linux stuff there's RHEL, which has releases that are supported for a minimum of 10 years), but why not cheap out and use the consumer-grade stuff on your 7+ figure piece of industrial equipment so you can pocket the difference?
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Jul 11, 2022 17:06
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MrQwerty posted:There's a lot of that with my equipment, and there's another major hurdle with our equipment, specifically a software hurdle: German-designed industrial software is poo poo. poo poo. I've seen it covered in other threads, maybe this one? But just... loving... just design software in the most obtuse, unusable way possible and then put the absolute bare minimum into translation work. Jesus christ I never want to use German industrial software again after 10 years of Bosch, Ersa, my in-house, all of it. This is as an operator, I don't even want to know what IT and eng deal with on their end with this complete loving garbage trash. I haven't used their industrial equipment but SAP software is clunky as hell and terribly documented.
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Jul 11, 2022 17:17
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TotalLossBrain posted:gently caress you Siemens  What the hell is their PLC programming software doing that I need a minimum of 16gb of ram? I hear a ton of bitching about Rockwell Automation's PLC programming software, but it doesn't take 16gb of ram to run.
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Jul 11, 2022 17:28
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Sapozhnik posted:Of course there are long-term support embedded systems versions of windows (and for Linux stuff there's RHEL, which has releases that are supported for a minimum of 10 years), but why not cheap out and use the consumer-grade stuff on your 7+ figure piece of industrial equipment so you can pocket the difference? Edit: stupid bad joke ignore this.
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Jul 11, 2022 17:29
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Even after all the horror stories about being a code toucher, Id still rather do that than work front desk in a hotel.
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Jul 11, 2022 17:43
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Hyrax Attack! posted:I haven't used their industrial equipment but SAP software is clunky as hell and terribly documented. German industrial equipment is like you're having trouble compiling a new ladder logic or trying to change some poorly technically named configuration variable and nothing you or you network of 50 other instrumentation and PLC engineers can possibly think of makes any difference. The only end user support is a long distance phone line staffed from 9am to 4pm CET that's staffed by 3 individuals who all go on holiday for 2 weeks in July, 2 weeks in December, and other random weeks of the year have reduced coverage for individual holiday. You may think you can buy your way out of this hotline with project support. You can't. A project will simply have a liason who gets in the same queue to talk to the 3 experts on the phone. zedprime fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Jul 11, 2022 |
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Jul 11, 2022 18:00
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