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ZShakespeare)
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I presume it's roughly 2/3 Facebook's fault and 1/3 word of foot-in-mouth? e: booster hesitancy, that is.
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Jul 12, 2022 13:58
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I'm guessing it's also an Idiocracy-level understanding of science: "if the eggheads said two doses was enough, then why come they changed their minds???"
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Jul 12, 2022 14:03
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eXXon posted:I presume it's roughly 2/3 Facebook's fault and 1/3 word of foot-in-mouth? Social media in general, but yeah. People like to blame Facebook in particular, but there's a ton of that poo poo out on Tiktok and Instagram infernal machines fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Jul 12, 2022 |
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Jul 12, 2022 14:04
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It's weird, but common, human logic of 'we jumped through a bunch of hoops to avoid outcome X, and outcome X never happened, therefore, all of the hoops that allowed us to avoid outcome X weren't necessary to begin with.'
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Jul 12, 2022 14:07
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PT6A posted:I'm guessing it's also an Idiocracy-level understanding of science: "if the eggheads said two doses was enough, then why come they changed their minds???" I've heard this logic from otherwise smart people. "They said it would only take 2 shots to be vaccinated, I'm not taking anymore." ???
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Jul 12, 2022 14:16
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It was probably a mistake to refer to two doses as "fully vaccinated". I think public health departments are only now rewording that. I wonder how many people opt (their kids) out of the third shot for various other three+ course vaccinations. It's not exactly uncommon to need that many for high effectiveness.
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Jul 12, 2022 14:19
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I can't remember the exact timeline: did 3rd shots/1st boosters start becoming a thing that was recommended before the variant-driven waves showed up? My memory, without looking it up, was that I was "fully vaccinated" with two shots right when Delta started becoming a major issue and the protection of two doses was no longer quite enough. Had it not been for the variants, maybe 2 shots would have been enough, but nature sometimes puts paid to our best-made plans. To a certain extent, I see problems on all sides of the issue when it comes to people dealing really, stunningly poorly with uncertainty and having to re-evaluate a situation in the light of new circumstances and new evidence.
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Jul 12, 2022 14:26
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infernal machines posted:From random conversations I've overheard in my neighbourhood, yes, actually.
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Jul 12, 2022 14:46
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PT6A posted:I can't remember the exact timeline: did 3rd shots/1st boosters start becoming a thing that was recommended before the variant-driven waves showed up? My memory, without looking it up, was that I was "fully vaccinated" with two shots right when Delta started becoming a major issue and the protection of two doses was no longer quite enough. Had it not been for the variants, maybe 2 shots would have been enough, but nature sometimes puts paid to our best-made plans. Boosters started ramping here right around when Delta did because two shots started having a real drop in efficacy with Delta where the third still got you pretty close to the original effectiveness.
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Jul 12, 2022 14:49
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Mr. Apollo posted:Yup. I've also been told by people that they don't want to get the booster shots because they're "tired of all these vaccines" and ask "are we going to keep getting shots for the rest of our lives?" Does this apply to other recurring tasks in their world? "What do you mean I have to mow the lawn again??? I already did it!" "I have to cook dinner every day??? What is this madness, I already cooked dinner last night!" "Are you telling me I have to change the oil in my car multiple times? No, I'm sorry, it's unacceptable. The oil should simply be better and last infinitely."
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Jul 12, 2022 14:50
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:Boosters started ramping here right around when Delta did because two shots started having a real drop in efficacy with Delta where the third still got you pretty close to the original effectiveness. That's what I remember, too. So, in fact, two doses was sufficient, as predicted, for the original disease the vaccine was designed to target. The variant(s) threw a wrench into that plan and we had to adjust accordingly. Is that really so shocking?
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Jul 12, 2022 14:52
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PT6A posted:Does this apply to other recurring tasks in their world? PT6A posted:"Are you telling me I have to change the oil in my car multiple times? No, I'm sorry, it's unacceptable. The oil should simply be better and last infinitely." Looks like 2nd boosters in Ontario might be available to everyone soon. https://twitter.com/CheriDiNovo/status/1546632118708703234?s=20&t=rhuAA-gRCZ5RbCaK_flsNA
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Jul 12, 2022 15:02
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I remember successfully nagging my wife to wear a better mask at her public-facing job in December 2020/January 2021 because delta was arriving/here, and I got my second shot in June 2021. Seems possible we could've avoided calling anything "fully vaccinated", or at least changed our minds before mid-2022.
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Jul 12, 2022 15:08
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PT6A posted:Does this apply to other recurring tasks in their world? TBF, I feel that way about all those things. I'm still going to keep getting the periodic boosters or whatever because it's preferable to getting sick. Mr. Apollo posted:Looks like 2nd boosters in Ontario might be available to everyone soon. Here's hoping, since I'm going on 7 months since the booster.
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Jul 12, 2022 15:11
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pokeyman posted:I remember successfully nagging my wife to wear a better mask at her public-facing job in December 2020/January 2021 because delta was arriving/here, and I got my second shot in June 2021. Seems possible we could've avoided calling anything "fully vaccinated", or at least changed our minds before mid-2022. To be honest I don't think it was a mistake calling two shots fully vaccinated in the original rollout. Two shots pretty much was as fully vaccinated as it was going to get against the alpha variant we were facing at the time. Plus I think we would have had a harder time getting the insanely good two shot uptake that we did if people didn't have a goal that could give them that sort of light at the end of the tunnel at the time. IMO the mistake was dropping the passport system instead of just upgrading it to three shots. From what I recall even if it was in Canada by April/May Delta didn't really take off in force until late in the summer/ early fall and we were still in mostly Alpha land then. Cases definitely cratered that summer between people being outside and the high vaccine uptake.
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Jul 12, 2022 15:16
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I think the other huge mistake was treating mask-wearing as a punishment, or conversely, treating the end of masking as a reward for getting vaccinated. And not focusing on 95PFE masks for all as soon as we had sufficient supply. Really there were so many fuckups!
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Jul 12, 2022 15:18
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On the plus side, even having just two shots seems to be really good protection against hospitalization/long term effects, even if it doesn't provide much protection against getting it in the first place
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Jul 12, 2022 15:42
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Mr. Apollo posted:Yup. I've also been told by people that they don't want to get the booster shots because they're "tired of all these vaccines" and ask "are we going to keep getting shots for the rest of our lives?" "Yes, probably. Ideally when we get our annual flu shot. And honestly, this is only going to happen more and more as population density increases and easy global travel allows new diseases to spread rapidly. Honestly, if you start seeing chimps acting a bit too smart, get your affairs in order." I got my fourth shot the end of May, I think? I'll take every one they give me. Anecdotally, the more shots I get, the less I react to them; the first two knocked me out for a few days, the third for a day, and the fourth just made me feel a bit low energy.
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Jul 12, 2022 15:55
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TheCenturion posted:"Yes, probably. Ideally when we get our annual flu shot. And honestly, this is only going to happen more and more as population density increases and easy global travel allows new diseases to spread rapidly. Honestly, if you start seeing chimps acting a bit too smart, get your affairs in order." Most people don’t get flu shots, is the thing. “Overall, influenza vaccination coverage among all adults (40%) was similar to the previous season (42%)” https://www.canada.ca/en/public-hea...nza-survey.html
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Jul 12, 2022 16:09
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Yeah the third shot was really important but probably part of the reason there's been limitations on the fourth shot was the earlier studies with four shots against Omicron (not sure if there's been anything new since then) was while the fourth shot was pretty good at reducing severe illness rates in older folks and those with severe risk factors it wasn't doing a whole lot more against infection and younger people weren't likely to notice a lot of the benefits against severe infection since the rates of that in the younger population were much lower anyway. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00486-9 Like by all means get it if you can but tbh I'm personally not counting on much protection against actually getting COVID until the new generation of boosters in the fall. Mr Luxury Yacht fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Jul 12, 2022 |
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Jul 12, 2022 16:10
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:Boosters started ramping here right around when Delta did because two shots started having a real drop in efficacy with Delta where the third still got you pretty close to the original effectiveness. I think it was a bit after that. I got my third shot in late August, when it was only for severely immunocompromised people and LTC (it wasn't even called a booster then, just a third primary shot), and it was a novel thing that the clinic hadn't dealt with before (it took them like 20 minutes to figure out if it was OK and what to do). Maybe like the fall of 2021 for when they started rolling out? General public was definitely Dec / Jan for the general population, and that was considered fairly rushed to get ahead of Omicron. enki42 fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Jul 12, 2022 |
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Jul 12, 2022 16:12
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Do any other brown people here have restaurants trying to give you Skip the Dishes orders whenever you go out to eat? Went to a pizza place to get a slice before groceries and after paying for one I sat down next to a white person while we waited for a pizza to come out of the oven. While on my phone I hear "what's the Skip number? Sir? Sir?! I need your Skip number." The guy who took my order gave her an "oh god, no" look before she got the hint. It was kind of funny, and then it immediately happened again at the bubble tea place I went to for a drink. What does a Skip order number look like? If they're so insistent on giving me orders I'm gonna see if I can leverage this into free food. At least the guy "accidentally" gave me an extra slice probably because of how embarrassing it must have been for them.
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Jul 12, 2022 17:22
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Coxswain Balls posted:Do any other brown people here have restaurants trying to give you Skip the Dishes orders whenever you go out to eat?
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Jul 12, 2022 17:32
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lol that's never happened to me, but I'm going to carry an orange cooler bag and leverage the poo poo out of that now Edit: that reminds me of when I used to work at Tim Hortons, and I was the only one that customers would ask about connecting to the wifi mom and dad fight a lot fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Jul 12, 2022 |
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Jul 12, 2022 17:38
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Delivery apps seem big here because Skip is headquartered here, so I'm wondering if it's common elsewhere or if it's a local quirk. I've often seen like five drivers waiting around for orders, it seems so wasteful. It goes both ways too. When I'm lazy and don't want to cook I grab some drive thru on the way home, and in the lobby or even the parking lot I've had people trying to take my brown paper bag thinking I'm delivering an order for them. I was so confused the first time it happened.
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Jul 12, 2022 17:51
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Loading Ready Run coming in with some classic CanCon RE: Rogers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Uss0jVBAz4
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Jul 12, 2022 18:08
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:To be honest I don't think it was a mistake calling two shots fully vaccinated in the original rollout. Two shots pretty much was as fully vaccinated as it was going to get against the alpha variant we were facing at the time. Just seems like another precautionary own goal. When we know many diseases require 3+ doses for good effectiveness and we're still early days with the new disease, why did we decide 2 was the full answer? But you could be right that the positive effect outweighed future confusion. I have no idea how to test either way. PT6A posted:Really there were so many fuckups! This is more what I'm frustrated by. Always feels like we're planning zero steps ahead. I don't expect a perfect response but can we stop making the same mistake?
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Jul 12, 2022 18:29
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Coxswain Balls posted:Do any other brown people here have restaurants trying to give you Skip the Dishes orders whenever you go out to eat? Holy gently caress that sucks and I hope you do find a way to leverage it into free food sometime(s). I heard an ethics debate on a podcast recently that was related: if a delivery person leaves bags of restaurant food at your place and you don't see them around anymore, should you wander to neighbours and try to find where the food was supposed to go or do you eat the food? Argument for finding neighbours is that somebody missed out on their food and you should be a good neighbour. Argument for eating it is that it's entirely possible that the driver was way off (ex: Eastman Drive instead of Eastman Avenue) and you're unlikely to find the intended recipient. Also what if you knock on the door of a serial killer or Pierre Polievere? I think I'm in the eat it camp.
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Jul 12, 2022 20:26
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That sounds like a good way to poison your enemies.
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Jul 12, 2022 20:38
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Yeah I was gonna say the same type of person who used to be fine poisoning local animals is being radicalized to the point I wouldn't really trust loose food anywhere.
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Jul 12, 2022 20:41
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mom and dad fight a lot posted:That sounds like a good way to poison your enemies. Well if somebody is going to off me, I'd appreciate it if they could at least do so using something in a red wine reduction.
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Jul 12, 2022 21:34
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I remember reading somewhere last year about how restaurants are prioritizing delivery orders over regular take out orders even if take out orders are smaller/come in earlier.
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Jul 12, 2022 21:47
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Madkal posted:I remember reading somewhere last year about how restaurants are prioritizing delivery orders over regular take out orders even if take out orders are smaller/come in earlier. Counterpoint: I know a restaurant here that's like "no, no delivery orders on busy nights, gently caress you." They can do that, because they're amazing and you either order another night, or get it yourself. When you are a really great restaurant, you can get away with that! "Oh no my Skip rating will go down and we'll make 100% on the food we sell, which we're preparing and selling as fast as we can, whatever shall we do?"
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Jul 12, 2022 23:38
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https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-chief-medical-officer-of-health-fourth-shots-rapid-tests-1.6518495 Ontario is making a fourth dose announcement tomorrow at 11 AM. quote:Ontario's top doctor to make announcement about 4th COVID-19 shots, rapid antigen tests
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Jul 13, 2022 00:37
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pokeyman posted:Just seems like another precautionary own goal. When we know many diseases require 3+ doses for good effectiveness and we're still early days with the new disease, why did we decide 2 was the full answer? But you could be right that the positive effect outweighed future confusion. I have no idea how to test either way. It was a big mistake to ever imply that the vaccine could create lasting immunity against infection. The vaccine had incredible performance out of the gate - far in excess of any flu vaccine - and maybe that lead people astray. But the quest to develop a viable vaccine against respiratory viruses didn’t start in 2020, it has been ongoing for decades and it was widely acknowledged to be extremely difficult. An Omicron-specific booster will have a similar outcome in the longer term, so the only viable model is annual boosters like we do with the flu to try to blunt transmission early on and reduce hospitalizations during the worst of the season. Implied in this is that we’ll probably never crack 50% uptake again, but if uptake is concentrated among people with the highest risk then the public health benefits will be quite high. Again, there is no hope for a vaccine that provides long lasting protection against infection or transmission, so vaccine policy can not be based on that premise.
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Jul 13, 2022 00:55
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Page 416 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgzbb8i466U Living in Toronto is exactly like The Fifth Element. See you again on page 905, or 647, or whatever
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Jul 13, 2022 05:32
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From the Cursed Images thread:
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Jul 13, 2022 05:56
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McGavin posted:From the Cursed Images thread: Western Canada is exactly where Hitler would go.
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Jul 13, 2022 07:05
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Left to right: Hitler, the Wario to Chef Boyardee's Mario, Guy who mixed up 'Lenin'/'Lennon' at a costume party, Donald Sutherland, Aging Jonathan Torrens
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Jul 13, 2022 07:15
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McGavin posted:From the Cursed Images thread: Hitler had himself frozen for 50 years so no one would recognise him. He's Hugh Laurie now. 
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Jul 13, 2022 07:20
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