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Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

nobody cares


How do you research Infused traits on staves?

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Peaceful Anarchy
Sep 18, 2005
sXe
I am the math man.

Potato Salad posted:

How do you research Infused traits on staves?
Find/buy an infused traited staff, same as all the traits. Other than nirnhoned and jewelry, all items are super cheap to craft. I can't recall if you're PCNA, but if so I'll craft them for you.

Mercurius
May 4, 2004

Amp it up.

Snowy posted:

I just did the prologue quest from Blackwood, A Mortal’s Touch, and now I don’t know what I’m supposed to do. It ended in grahtwood with a wood elf saying she’d be in touch. Should I just start taking quests in Leyawiin and assume it’ll continue later?
I know you have a workaround but for future reference you can start any of the expansion story main quests from the Stories tab in Collections.

dialhforhero posted:

Is Greymoor worth the price, then? Or just wait for a sale?

I don’t have High Isle so considering if I should get that “full version” or not.

I have the other areas.
I enjoyed Greymoor as a whole (so including the Markarth DLC and the epilogue) but the actual Greymoor story in Western Skyrim is quite dull. The Markarth story is much better (and the epilogue after doing both is quite good) plus as has been mentioned Blackreach is real neat and the Antiquities system is pretty good. It's probably worth the price just based on the Antiquities system alone but it's also not so urgent that you can't put it off until there's a sale if finances are tight.

Doctor Zero
Sep 21, 2002

Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Hector Delgado posted:

I couldn't stand Eveli Sharp-arrow. I can't be alone in this

She's not great, but my Bosmer is short like her so it was at least neat to be the Tiny Bosmer Squad.

Doctor Zero
Sep 21, 2002

Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Potato Salad posted:

How do you research Infused traits on staves?

I would find a guild merchant who has a cheap one, or a guildie to can make you one. Alternatively, you can buy mystery wooden weapons from the carpenters, but it's a crapshoot which enchants you may get, if any.

My advice is make an effort to research Training, Divines, and Nirnhoned before you do much else. Nirnhoned may be expensive if you're just starting out though. Then go for sharpened / defense boosting, and leave the crappy stuff like Decisive for last. Your last research items will take 30-60 days to finish, give or take, so don't leave the good stuff for last, trust me.

Peaceful Anarchy
Sep 18, 2005
sXe
I am the math man.

Doctor Zero posted:

My advice is make an effort to research Training, Divines, and Nirnhoned before you do much else. Nirnhoned may be expensive if you're just starting out though. Then go for sharpened / defense boosting, and leave the crappy stuff like Decisive for last. Your last research items will take 30-60 days to finish, give or take, so don't leave the good stuff for last, trust me.
Yaah, especially since now your knowledge determines what you can put on reconstructed gear getting the good traits isn't just for crafted gear.

The Doormat
Dec 20, 2010

:dukedog:

dialhforhero posted:

Is Greymoor worth the price, then? Or just wait for a sale?

I don’t have High Isle so considering if I should get that “full version” or not.

I have the other areas.

Greymoor gives you the Antiquities system and that's pretty fun, and I think the area is nice, but either way the messed up pricing means you should wait for a sale and grab the complete version imho

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

Peaceful Anarchy posted:

Yaah, especially since now your knowledge determines what you can put on reconstructed gear getting the good traits isn't just for crafted gear.

Important note if you've ready done this: to transmute, you only need to know the trait on the character doing the transmuting.

Also, you can pass all your gear to alts.

Which means you can just learn the traits you need on an alt that has no traits learned so it takes 4 hours instead of 30 days, transmute it on that character, and pass it back to your main.

Peaceful Anarchy
Sep 18, 2005
sXe
I am the math man.

Mormon Star Wars posted:

Important note if you've ready done this: to transmute, you only need to know the trait on the character doing the transmuting.

Also, you can pass all your gear to alts.

Which means you can just learn the traits you need on an alt that has no traits learned so it takes 4 hours instead of 30 days, transmute it on that character, and pass it back to your main.
Yeah, short term this would be a good idea. 3 traits each on 3 characters and you can get everything in like a week.

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

nobody cares


So, it is looking like the version of the coming combat changes that are up on PTS are much more extreme than anyone anticipated:

https://eso-hub.com/en/news/mass-outrage-on-eso-forums-after-lost-depths-patch-notes-reveal

20-30% DPS loss is, wow. drat. They better loving fix that by either bringing some of that dps back OR reducing the DPS requirement for some trials.

I do think that a 30% reduction in DPS would help overland content mean something again, but goddamn from a quick scroll through the forums this does NOT appear to be helping the casual end either.

Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Jul 13, 2022

1glitch0
Sep 4, 2018

I DON'T GIVE A CRAP WHAT SHE BELIEVES THE HARRY POTTER BOOKS CHANGED MY LIFE #HUFFLEPUFF
Everyone seems to be very mad, but I'm not smart enough to judge.

Peaceful Anarchy
Sep 18, 2005
sXe
I am the math man.

1glitch0 posted:

Everyone seems to be very mad, but I'm not smart enough to judge.
In a vacuum the changes are fine, but there are a bunch of things in context which makes everyone mad.
1) This yet another in a long line of changes combat and people are tired of having drastic core changes.
2) Their communication is abysmal and they do nothing to address concerns people have. I don't even mean change things based on feedback, even just "yes we hear you and x is a valid concern but in order to do y it's necessary but maybe we'll do z to address it"
3) They explicitly sold the changes as "narrowing the gap" and "nerfing the high end " which inherently pitted segments of the playerbase against each other
4) The changes are hitting everyone hard. They could have chosen a high point for LA/HA base damage which would have maintained the lowend while nerfing the top, but instead even 15k dps people are falling 20-30%.
5) 2,3, and 4 combine to make people all over the spectrum dubious of their intentions. Either they did know what their changes were bringing and they lied about impact, or they didn't and they're idiots who couldn't see this coming.
6) They did not adjust content. That makes the top end mad because now stuff that was plausible but hard is impossible.
7) There is no trust that they're going to listen to complaints, so people are being really loud about the complaints.
8 )There were some specific nerfs unrelated to the main changes that some people are mad about.

There are also legitimate reasons to be against the changes from a game design perspective, so that's mixed in there as well, but if it weren't for all the other stuff it wouldn't be a big deal. Fixed LA/HA values would be fine if they were set at a place that matched content, and the DoT change is going to change strategies and make some things better and others worse, but in terms of pure DPS it's a wash so people would adjust. There is a specific concern about the tick every two seconds poo poo they're doing but that would be an easy fix (that they won't do because they did that consciously).

I've been on PTS with my 25k DPS build and it went down to 18k. I was not using oakensoul, not using any skills or sets that were changed beyond a couple of DoT that were standardized like everything else. Luckily I was reaching the end of my interest in this build so I'll find something else with a higher ceiling and won't notice the DPS loss, I've already tried a few things that are getting me 35k on PTS. It's absurd that changing from staff to daggers and changing my spammable accordingly can give me a 50% increase in my damage without changing anything else, change one set and one other skill on top and boom another 50% increase.

Which brings me to the last point which is the elephant in the room they refuse to address with their year long talk of closing the gap. Top end players say "learn to weave" low end players complain about weaving, but weaving is not the cause of the power gap. Weaving is the last piece that takes you up a notch, not the thing keeping people sub 20k dps. Changing sets and enchants (and a bit of CP and skill placement) can drastically change a build from unsustainable garbage to a breeze through most vet content. None of that is explained in game and the game gives no indication about how all the various skills, buffs and passives interact. A bunch of powerful skills can feel like garbage with a bad build. A beginner can be turned off combat or turned off a class or playstyle not because they're bad at it or because it's not for them, but because they didn't build right to make the numbers stack the right way. The devs take all these interactions as a given when for a lot of players even the concept of a spammable interspersed among DoTs and an execute at the end is something that needs to be learned.

Mr Newsman
Nov 8, 2006
Did somebody say news?
You also end up spamming the same skill 10-15 times before you have to reapply dots or buffs in parse-like situations (limited boss movement).

Not too surprised that you fill that space with more spammable skill casts but it doesn't really seem too engaging from what I've seen watching a couple of PTS parses.

Edit: also the broad scale nerfs to everyone AND then adding more buffs to the trial dummy to obscure how bad the nerfs were is pretty funny.

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

nobody cares


they went so far as to freckin buff the trial dummy?

do they think people will have no memory, no spreadsheets, no parse history?

Pryce
May 21, 2011

Mercurius posted:

The Markarth story is much better (and the epilogue after doing both is quite good) plus as has been mentioned Blackreach is real neat and the Antiquities system is pretty good.

Holy poo poo, this has been driving me crazy and I couldn't figure it out. In a DLC zone, the 'main story' is usually 6/6 quests, but then there are 'main story' quests after that, are those quests specifically only available if you did both the Chapter and DLC stories? I couldn't figure out why they weren't being tracked on the zone completion and why the 'main story' didn't really properly conclude when you get the zone's achievement. It suddenly makes a lot more sense what's going on here.

Cutedge
Mar 13, 2006

How can we lose so much more than we had before

quote:

The idea of these changes was to make the game easier for more casual players, with the hope of increasing the number of players able to participate in higher level content and reducing the performance gap between less experienced players and more experienced players.

So this is where I get super confused. Why do mmo devs think that they should have the core game be ridiculously easy (including dungeons, which for the most part are also pretty easy) and then you hit the "hard" content and it's like going 110 into a brick wall? They basically trained players to be like "eh, whatever your build doesn't matter just press buttons" and then punish them later for it. Why not actually make content have a curve and train your players into decisions they need to make about what they are doing, rather than expecting them all to go to alcasthq to figure out what the hell they are supposed to be doing?

BoldFrankensteinMir
Jul 28, 2006


Cutedge posted:

Why not actually make content have a curve and train your players into decisions they need to make about what they are doing, rather than expecting them all to go to alcasthq to figure out what the hell they are supposed to be doing?

I can't say for other MMOs but most Elder Scrolls games I recall require searching a fan wiki just to be playable, at this point leaning on the fans to fill in the gaps is part of the brand.

Doctor Zero
Sep 21, 2002

Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Cutedge posted:

So this is where I get super confused. Why do mmo devs think that they should have the core game be ridiculously easy (including dungeons, which for the most part are also pretty easy) and then you hit the "hard" content and it's like going 110 into a brick wall? They basically trained players to be like "eh, whatever your build doesn't matter just press buttons" and then punish them later for it. Why not actually make content have a curve and train your players into decisions they need to make about what they are doing, rather than expecting them all to go to alcasthq to figure out what the hell they are supposed to be doing?

IMO it’s because they are feeding the NUMBERS MUST RISE incentive, but like a DM that gives out major artifacts like candy, then the opponents have to get silly strong when you get to higher levels. Made worse by the fact that the only way they can think of to add endgame content is to add even stronger gear, stats, and abilities so it’s a never ending power race to godhood which makes the rest of the content trivial.

Dr Kool-AIDS
Mar 26, 2004

I don't know much about the combat changes in general, but the Oakensoul nerf definitely feels like they knew they were putting it in overtuned to sell High Isle and then decided to tune it down after they made their sales.

Cutedge
Mar 13, 2006

How can we lose so much more than we had before

Doctor Zero posted:

IMO it’s because they are feeding the NUMBERS MUST RISE incentive, but like a DM that gives out major artifacts like candy, then the opponents have to get silly strong when you get to higher levels. Made worse by the fact that the only way they can think of to add endgame content is to add even stronger gear, stats, and abilities so it’s a never ending power race to godhood which makes the rest of the content trivial.

But the content in the open world is mostly trivial anyway, without even having gear or CP or anything. Like, if nothing in the world can really present a challenge, than what is my incentive to actually have to learn to play? I'm not asking for the open world to be dark souls, but there really isn't even a reason to learn to manage dots or what skills or important or anything because you don't need it. Then when you hit the end game the curve goes like this _____|

Honestly I'm surprised they don't make the open world a lot harder just because then they could sell companions or something.

Comrade Koba
Jul 2, 2007

Cutedge posted:

Honestly I'm surprised they don't make the open world a lot harder just because then they could sell companions or something.

quote:

then they could sell companions or something

quote:

sell companions

*daedric paw curls*

Cutedge
Mar 13, 2006

How can we lose so much more than we had before

* Note: not condoning that behaviour, that's just the nightmare world we live in now

Doctor Zero
Sep 21, 2002

Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Comrade Koba posted:

*daedric paw curls*

I, no joke, would pay real money - and more than I’d like to admit - if they made Sheogorath a purchasable companion.


Cutedge posted:

But the content in the open world is mostly trivial anyway, without even having gear or CP or anything. Like, if nothing in the world can really present a challenge, than what is my incentive to actually have to learn to play? I'm not asking for the open world to be dark souls, but there really isn't even a reason to learn to manage dots or what skills or important or anything because you don't need it. Then when you hit the end game the curve goes like this _____|

Honestly I'm surprised they don't make the open world a lot harder just because then they could sell companions or something.

For me, when I first started overworld wasn’t a steam roll. Not because much changed, but rather i didn’t know what I was doing, which skills were good, which weapons and enchants to go for, etc etc.

I can’t comment on a newbie POV now, but it seems like over world is aimed at actual new players. I’m not sure how they can overcome that.

Mercurius
May 4, 2004

Amp it up.

Pryce posted:

Holy poo poo, this has been driving me crazy and I couldn't figure it out. In a DLC zone, the 'main story' is usually 6/6 quests, but then there are 'main story' quests after that, are those quests specifically only available if you did both the Chapter and DLC stories? I couldn't figure out why they weren't being tracked on the zone completion and why the 'main story' didn't really properly conclude when you get the zone's achievement. It suddenly makes a lot more sense what's going on here.
Yep! The release cadence for a Chapter is a bit unusual but it's basically broken up into quarters (that don't necessarily line up with the calendar year quarters) and has been fairly consistent since Elsewyr came out:
Q1: You get an initial release that's a prologue quest and a couple of dungeons to set the scene for what's happening in the Chapter
Q2: The main part of the Chapter releases (e.g. Greymoor) containing a new zone, a new main story and a new game feature
Q3: Another pair of dungeons
Q4: The second, smaller part of the Chapter is released (e.g. Markarth) which also contains a new zone and another story (usually partially following on from the main chapter) along with a story epilogue that's available after you complete both stories from the Chapter.

The epilogue quests are honestly the strongest part of a lot of the chapters and in my opinion they retroactively make some of the Chapters like Greymoor far more interesting than just the initial story was in isolation.

Berke Negri
Feb 15, 2012

Les Ricains tuent et moi je mue
Mao Mao
Les fous sont rois et moi je bois
Mao Mao
Les bombes tonnent et moi je sonne
Mao Mao
Les bebes fuient et moi je fuis
Mao Mao


Mercurius posted:

Yep! The release cadence for a Chapter is a bit unusual but it's basically broken up into quarters (that don't necessarily line up with the calendar year quarters) and has been fairly consistent since Elsewyr came out:


actually the same since Dark Brotherhood dlc

Thieves guild is the only story dlc to not fall on a q2/q4 cycle (think it fell on a january or q1 some thing)`

https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info2612-TheQuestingGuide.html

if youre on pc this may help its a drop down guide to run through arcs at release [imo don't bother with cadwells silver and gold]

1glitch0
Sep 4, 2018

I DON'T GIVE A CRAP WHAT SHE BELIEVES THE HARRY POTTER BOOKS CHANGED MY LIFE #HUFFLEPUFF
I just got a diamond achievement on ESO. Only 3.98% of players completed the opening quest for the Thieve's Guild. I know it's dlc but that seems crazy low!

Mercurius
May 4, 2004

Amp it up.

Berke Negri posted:

actually the same since Dark Brotherhood dlc

Thieves guild is the only story dlc to not fall on a q2/q4 cycle (think it fell on a january or q1 some thing)`

https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info2612-TheQuestingGuide.html

if youre on pc this may help its a drop down guide to run through arcs at release [imo don't bother with cadwells silver and gold]
It's been a while but I thought Summerset didn't have the smaller secondary story release with a separate zone because Morrowind->Clockwork City->Summerset were somewhat connected together as opposed to the more self contained Major->Minor releases we get now.

Sky Shadowing
Feb 13, 2012

At least we're not the Thalmor (yet)
I think they mean the release cadence has been Chapter Zone (Morrowind, Summerset, Elsweyr, Greymoor, High Isle) in Q2, small zone DLC in Q4. Since Elsweyr those Zone DLCs have directly linked with the preceding Chapter (Elsweyr + Dragonhold, Greymoor + Markarth, High Isle + Whatever's next).

Murkmire, if I remember right, released in the Q4 after Summerset's Q2, but Murkmire is 100% stand alone, rather than being tied into a larger storyline. By contrast, there's a direct story thoroughfare from Morrowind->Clockwork City->Summerset.

Pryce
May 21, 2011

Berke Negri posted:

actually the same since Dark Brotherhood dlc

Thieves guild is the only story dlc to not fall on a q2/q4 cycle (think it fell on a january or q1 some thing)`

https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info2612-TheQuestingGuide.html

if youre on pc this may help its a drop down guide to run through arcs at release [imo don't bother with cadwells silver and gold]

Goddamnit. This would've been such a helpful addon a month ago before I played through every single piece of content :P

SpiderLink
Oct 3, 2006
I decided to replay Skyrim for the first time since its launch on a whim and am having an absolute blast. I thought I'd give ESO a shot since I think a new expansion just came out or something but apparently the devs ruined everything and the player base is furious?

I made a character a while back to get Microsoft rewards points and thought it was cool but it didn't grab me at the time. Should I bother at all or is everything ruined forever? I would be playing on an Xbox with Game Pass and probably wouldn't buy anything like content or a subscription until I know if I like it.

Snowy
Oct 6, 2010

A man whose blood
Is very snow-broth;
One who never feels
The wanton stings and
Motions of the sense



Berke Negri posted:

actually the same since Dark Brotherhood dlc

Thieves guild is the only story dlc to not fall on a q2/q4 cycle (think it fell on a january or q1 some thing)`

https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info2612-TheQuestingGuide.html

if youre on pc this may help its a drop down guide to run through arcs at release [imo don't bother with cadwells silver and gold]

This is helping already, I always lose track of quest lines

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

nobody cares


SpiderLink posted:

I decided to replay Skyrim for the first time since its launch on a whim and am having an absolute blast. I thought I'd give ESO a shot since I think a new expansion just came out or something but apparently the devs ruined everything and the player base is furious?

They didn't ruin everything, it's still Skyrim 2 with a whole hell of a lot more story

the contention with the devs is largely over raiding numbers that don't affect people running 98% of the game's content


Re: Xbox, I don't know why I would ever restrict myself like that, but I don't understand consoles in general so honestly go for it. People have very positive experiences with this MMO/big-singleplayer-TES-game on consoles

Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Jul 17, 2022

Space Jam
Jul 22, 2008

SpiderLink posted:

I decided to replay Skyrim for the first time since its launch on a whim and am having an absolute blast. I thought I'd give ESO a shot since I think a new expansion just came out or something but apparently the devs ruined everything and the player base is furious?

I made a character a while back to get Microsoft rewards points and thought it was cool but it didn't grab me at the time. Should I bother at all or is everything ruined forever? I would be playing on an Xbox with Game Pass and probably wouldn't buy anything like content or a subscription until I know if I like it.

The changes everyone is mad about won’t really matter to you if you only want to do story and regular non-endgame content.

kirbysuperstar
Nov 11, 2012

Let the fools who stand before us be destroyed by the power you and I possess.

drat this is lit

1glitch0
Sep 4, 2018

I DON'T GIVE A CRAP WHAT SHE BELIEVES THE HARRY POTTER BOOKS CHANGED MY LIFE #HUFFLEPUFF
.

SpiderLink
Oct 3, 2006
Thank you both, Potato Salad and Space Jam. I'll finish up Skyrim and see how I feel then!

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

Just another tip here: if you are running a dungeon for set pieces, make sure you bind EVERYTHING THAT DROPS after the dungeon run, so that curated drops will be more likely to give you pieces you don't have.

Don't be like me and run white gold tower over and over without binding anything and getting dozens of essence thief drops!

Mr Newsman
Nov 8, 2006
Did somebody say news?
Yeah to expand, the main bit you want to bind asap would be stuff that only drops from the end boss (jewelry and weaps).

The body parts of your sticker book will be filled out long before you collect all of those.

Make sure you find all the treasure chests as well! Can find 2 per dungeon, they can drop weapons and jewelry and reduce the number of runs you have to do to complete the book significantly!

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost
ESO Plus needs to give me an extra 15 quest slots :mad:

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frgildan
Apr 6, 2005

I went some place mum and everyday I woke up in that place and told myself I'm alive and I was.

Mozi posted:

ESO Plus needs to give me an extra 15 quest slots :mad:

I just want more character slots. Been stuck at 18 way to long and want more crafting mules.

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