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I have a really dumb situation that is evolving and I need some internet hooligan opinions about it. Excuse my idiotic metaphors, shamelessly stolen from ask a manager. I currently work as program manager for our teapot brand, part of the larger Teapot/Kettle/Boiler franchise. Our franchise is unique as there are three project managers for the different brands, mostly due to size/revenue. We share a lot of our duties to the franchise as a whole. Other franchises are solo managed. I have been in my position for less than a year, and I'm finally getting my feet under me. I work really well with our Teapot brand team and my fellow project managers for kettles and boilers brands. The project manager for Forks/Spoons franchise recently left their position. While our titles are the same and job duties are technically the same, you have to understand that the franchises are extremely idiosyncratic. I would have to learn a completely new set of data, familiarize myself with all the new projects, as well as understand the way of working for that franchise. My boss (who supervises all the different managers but is not specifically the head of any particular franchise, think of us as hired mercenaries) has made it seem like he wants me to fill this spot. I do not want to go for many reasons. My coworkers do not want me to go either. My boss's reasoning was that a new hire would have the other project managers from Kettles and Boilers to lean on and since I have nearly a year, I should be okay. But for me, this is like tossing out a year of onboarding AND I really like my franchise. It's why I took the job. So now it's like I might be being forced to start over. However here is the TLDR My boss asked me to move projects and I said no. He said cool, I'll figure something out. This week, he came back and intimated I might not have a choice. From what I've heard from my coworkers, a forced move like this is unheard of. Another coworker suggested I leverage the second ask (since it seems my boss is desperate) for more money. The thing is that while it's technically completely new work, it's still the same job title and manager. Has anyone been in a situation where they've successfully asked for more money due to shifting job duties?
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Jul 13, 2022 00:24
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Ask for more money and prepare to bounce. Either way, I'd be updating my resume.
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Jul 13, 2022 00:31
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Sorry if this has been asked before but I'm seeing a lot of application forms ask for desired pay as a mandatory field. What's the move here? Should I write down an honest number or just put $XXX,XXX or something?
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Jul 13, 2022 00:40
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bltzn posted:Sorry if this has been asked before but I'm seeing a lot of application forms ask for desired pay as a mandatory field. What's the move here? Should I write down an honest number or just put $XXX,XXX or something? $0, Bob
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Jul 13, 2022 00:41
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Ghostnuke posted:Ask for more money and prepare to bounce. Either way, I'd be updating my resume. Yeah, I know. I'm wicked overpaid for the amount of work I do and it wouldn't be the worst thing to work in this new position for a bit so there's not a crazy ASAP need to jump, but I'd definitely start looking if they forced it. What kind of increase would be appropriate, 5%? If my raise when getting my current position was 10%?
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Jul 13, 2022 00:50
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As the thread likes to say, internal negotiation is basically begging. Just ask what the increase is and if they give you one then that's great, and if not then you get to be extra mad when you bounce.
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Jul 13, 2022 01:05
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You: "Happy to be so valuable to you. By the way, what increase in compensation can I expect with this new role?" Boss: "Well it's the same role just on a different team so it would be the same salary of course." You: (Dramatic one second pause) You: "OK, understood. Thanks!" And smile and walk away without another word. That's how you communicate "pay me now or I'm as good as gone" to an upper manager in a language they'll understand. And if you're actually crucial to them it'll make them piss themselves and call their boss as soon as you've left the room.
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Jul 13, 2022 02:40
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Yeah. I was in this same situation except I actually wanted the lateral move. Tried to negotiate but just pissed off my shithead boss. I don’t think there’s a lot to work with in that situation.
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Jul 13, 2022 07:18
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bltzn posted:Sorry if this has been asked before but I'm seeing a lot of application forms ask for desired pay as a mandatory field. What's the move here? Should I write down an honest number or just put $XXX,XXX or something? N/A or 0. If they turn you down because of that, don’t worry, there’s no high paying job behind it. The only reason anybody asks that is because there’s a budget, not a budget decided based on the market, but a budget decided by the CEO arbitrarily, and it’s not flexible. qhat fucked around with this message at 08:40 on Jul 13, 2022 |
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Jul 13, 2022 08:38
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Honestly the best thing you can have happen is for a company that wants a number first to sort you out because you said numbers later. Saves you all the trouble of interviewing just to learn that they want to pay you poo poo.
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Jul 13, 2022 09:29
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Eric the Mauve posted:You: "Happy to be so valuable to you. By the way, what increase in compensation can I expect with this new role?" More or less how a discussion last week went when I inquired about a salary adjustment for inflation. Got a "ask in a few more months when you have updated industry salary data" The very next day, received an offer for a 25% raise in base pay, with a 20% additional kicker if I can get a clearance Trying not to psych myself out of asking for 10% more on top. If all goes well the sweetest part will be answering the phone after sending my notice
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Jul 13, 2022 12:40
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Eric the Mauve posted:You: "Happy to be so valuable to you. By the way, what increase in compensation can I expect with this new role?" This is good, but I think given the circumstance you can politely say "In order to make this move I would require an adjustment to salary given the changing circumstance". The difference here is you are in the poo poo house if they say no, though it also makes it clear moving you means losing you. They are hoping you just suck it up and stay long enough to make it worth it.
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Jul 13, 2022 15:57
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I read it as "let's give the new guy the easier role that has more support and you can do the more challenging role with no support for the same remuneration" I think the correct response is your own variation on "what's in it for me / sure, get out your wallet".
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Jul 13, 2022 18:36
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Forcing you to do a job that you didn't sign on for is definitely getting into "gently caress you, pay me" territory IMO. Each to his own, but I'd be getting salty. This isn't the military, companies can take the voluntold stuff and shove it.
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Jul 13, 2022 20:23
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Hey guys, I'm smelling an opportunity. I moved to a different team in a reorg at the beginning of the year and I'll be having my first mid-year review. TBH I haven't been super motivated since covid and the war, but it was enough to get good reviews and bonus multiplies as well as some stock grants. But not a raise a promotion (beside some 6%-7% CoL poo poo). So far this year I've done a lot of work that's been recognized by the boss, team lead, and peers, but that was on projects that unfortunately weren't a huge success due to outside factors (bad idea in the first place, IT cockblocking etc). Here's what makes me think it's time to negotiate something:
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Jul 14, 2022 18:59
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Thread wisdom seems to be go in with as much concrete and documented as possible. This extends fully to having other concrete offers in hand. It can give you a good idea of market value, but also gives you an out if (and likely when) they start the timer on your job upon the ask and/or denial.
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Jul 14, 2022 19:07
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mobby_6kl posted:Hey guys, I'm smelling an opportunity. What's your BATNA exactly?
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Jul 14, 2022 19:07
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mobby_6kl posted:[*]Can't hire replacements
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Jul 14, 2022 19:29
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Long time reader, first time poster. Chalk up one more win for the thread. I just signed an offer that will give me a 76% bump in total comp for the first year. That’s mostly because the current job has been underpaying me, but I was still able to negotiate for more than I expected. What helped me most was thoroughly understanding my BATNA, refusing to give a number first, and having the willingness to walk away from multiple opportunities if necessary. It really amazed me how much it changed conversations compared to the last time I did this, when I had no idea what I was doing. Thanks thread!
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Jul 15, 2022 03:12
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Adhemar posted:Long time reader, first time poster. Chalk up one more win for the thread. I just signed an offer that will give me a 76% bump in total comp for the first year. That’s mostly because the current job has been underpaying me, but I was still able to negotiate for more than I expected. 
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Jul 15, 2022 03:18
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Nicely done my friend, just goes to show what can happen.
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Jul 15, 2022 13:41
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Haven’t heard anything about the background check yet - so I emailed my hiring manager.quote:Hi Pillow, Thoughts?
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Jul 15, 2022 15:20
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relax?
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Jul 15, 2022 15:23
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Ghostnuke posted:relax? Not a lot of time to relax if I’m giving two weeks
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Jul 15, 2022 15:27
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Pillowpants posted:Not a lot of time to relax if I’m giving two weeks why are you obsessed with the timing of the two weeks?
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Jul 15, 2022 15:34
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If your background check might fail, don't give notice until it is done. Two weeks is an arbitrary timespan in America and you're not obligated to give it. You can quit at 4:59pm on the 29th if you choose to. "Not selling your labor anymore" is one of the few things workers in America actually have the right to do. Embrace your power and quit only when it works for you.
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Jul 15, 2022 15:38
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Pillowpants posted:Not a lot of time to relax if I’m giving two weeks I once was cleared for a job 2 days before I was meant to start after I had given notice two weeks prior. Let me tell you, I wish I had held out until it was certain, the nerves of approaching my last day without the certainty of my new job starting was tooooooo much.
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Jul 15, 2022 15:46
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I guess not having to give any notice is the one and only advantage you guys have. I didn't think "I quit *walks out the door*" was an actual thing you could do, even in the US.
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Jul 15, 2022 15:53
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SEKCobra posted:I guess not having to give any notice is the one and only advantage you guys have. I didn't think "I quit *walks out the door*" was an actual thing you could do, even in the US. We typically have at will employment. It goes both ways.
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Jul 15, 2022 15:55
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So, just for shits and giggles, what are the actual consequences of not giving notice? Are there any? Like, being ineligible for rehire? I don't think most will actually bad mouth you to avoid any legal jeopardy.
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Jul 15, 2022 15:57
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Magnetic North posted:So, just for shits and giggles, what are the actual consequences of not giving notice? Are there any? Like, being ineligible for rehire? I don't think most will actually bad mouth you to avoid any legal jeopardy. The admiration of your former peers
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Jul 15, 2022 15:58
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Magnetic North posted:So, just for shits and giggles, what are the actual consequences of not giving notice? Are there any? Like, being ineligible for rehire? I don't think most will actually bad mouth you to avoid any legal jeopardy. I think some employment contracts might have penalties if you don't give a certain amount of notice?
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Jul 15, 2022 16:00
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Magnetic North posted:So, just for shits and giggles, what are the actual consequences of not giving notice? Are there any? Like, being ineligible for rehire? I don't think most will actually bad mouth you to avoid any legal jeopardy. I would burn bridges with my boss, who I really like and become ineligible for rehire in a company I really like. I’ve been looking because of the demotion for unknown reasons last year, but the people behind that are gone too. Also, my boss is on vacation next week so I wanted to give notice before she left and not while she’s on vacation or after a
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Jul 15, 2022 16:02
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Magnetic North posted:So, just for shits and giggles, what are the actual consequences of not giving notice? Are there any? Like, being ineligible for rehire? I don't think most will actually bad mouth you to avoid any legal jeopardy. As I think I noted earlier, they will gently caress you out of paying out any sick/vacation time you have banked (if they even do that in the first place). Might try to kick you in the shins on other stuff as well if they’re at all able.
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Jul 15, 2022 16:02
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Absurd Alhazred posted:I think some employment contracts might have penalties if you don't give a certain amount of notice? most people in the US are not on any kind of employment contract
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Jul 15, 2022 16:03
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Magnetic North posted:So, just for shits and giggles, what are the actual consequences of not giving notice? Are there any? Like, being ineligible for rehire? I don't think most will actually bad mouth you to avoid any legal jeopardy. Nothing extremely tangible. If you quit without notice, your pay won't be processed that day. If they cut you without notice they're obligated to have your final pay at that time (which doesn't mean they always do..) You'll keep a better relationship with your old boss if you help make transitions smooth. How much that matters varies quite a lot. Making a scene about leaving is more likely to mark ineligible than just quietly walking out the door after turning in notice and equipment and such.
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Jul 15, 2022 16:04
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:most people in the US are not on any kind of employment contract I signed some piece of paper setting out the terms of my employment in all types of employment I had here in the US in the last ten years. That included as a TA, as a research assistant, and as an employee of at this point two tech companies. What makes those not employment contracts? Or am I unusual? I don't think I'm unusual for the purpose of jobs discussed in this thread, at least.
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Jul 15, 2022 16:09
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Pillowpants, there are definitely real and substantial drawbacks to not giving notice, but in your specific situation I think the risk of your offer getting pulled at the 11th hour because some HR or Legal rear end in a top hat suddenly decides to spike you because of the bankruptcy/legal stuff is too substantial and you may just have to burn the bridge by resigning without notice. Have you actually explained this to New Employer and said "hey, as a professional courtesy I would really like to give my current employer two weeks notice but obviously I don't want to do that until everything is finished and official with you, can we push back my start date to two weeks after that happens?"
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Jul 15, 2022 16:10
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REMEMBER SPONGE MONKEYS posted:As I think I noted earlier, they will gently caress you out of paying out any sick/vacation time you have banked (if they even do that in the first place). Might try to kick you in the shins on other stuff as well if they’re at all able. Well, they can’t do that in some states And if they take too long in other states you can get paid triple damages
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Jul 15, 2022 16:12
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Absurd Alhazred posted:I signed some piece of paper setting out the terms of my employment in all types of employment I had here in the US in the last ten years. That included as a TA, as a research assistant, and as an employee of at this point two tech companies. What makes those not employment contracts? Or am I unusual? I don't think I'm unusual for the purpose of jobs discussed in this thread, at least.
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Jul 15, 2022 16:13
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