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Vote to threadban Bioshuffle This poll is closed. |
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| Yes (Goku) |
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146 | 85.38% |
| No (also Goku) |
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25 | 14.62% |
| Total: | 171 votes | ||
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christmas boots posted:He did promise her he'd look after the kid and despite his origins he's half her so I don't think it's out of character at all especially when you remember that he only said that stuff about him killing her so he wouldn't try and follow him to begin with and he's just had that experience living through the nightmare of his brother dying and feeling guilty because he was leading Hughie down the same path. If ever there was a time for him to blink this was that episode. I'd say that would fly with other characters, but the extreme lengths Butcher has gone to gently caress over others through his single-minded obsession with accomplishing his goals makes his "choice" of calling everything off 2 seconds before accomplishing everything he's set out to do from the start a bad writing choice, and it just kind of shattered the 4th wall for me and really killed my suspension of disbelief. Like obviously I knew it's a TV show being written by a team of people, but the fun of shows like this is to see how interesting writers can make things while keeping their own presence hidden. This is accomplished by keeping character actions logically consistent. I'm just saying Butcher's actions in the last show, in my eyes, has transformed him from a character with goals to a device for moving the plot forward. The kicker here is that the big "consequence" of Homelander's son staying there and Soldier Boy firing off his anti-V ray is that it arguably wouldn't have even killed the boy, just de-suped him, like it did with Maeve, which Butcher would even view as accomplishing multiple goals at once. De-supe Homelander AND his son, now they're free to kill a de-suped Homelander and raise the boy as one big happy family and giving him a normal life (well, as normal as Butcher & Co. can provide anyway), win win. GreatGreen fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Jul 13, 2022 |
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Jul 13, 2022 19:48
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GreatGreen posted:The tension is gone. I do agree with this. There were some points where Homelander should've just wasted people but didn't because reasons. And seeing how well other supes did against him he no longer feels like an overwhelming obstacle that can't be overcome, but not in a way that was earned.
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Jul 13, 2022 19:53
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lol that people would think that they'd kill Homelander so soon. Also Butcher is clearly not portrayed as being simply Mr "I'll-Do-Literally-Anything-Including-Sacrificing-My-Loved-Ones-To-Achieve-My-Ultimate-Goal-Of-Killing-Homelander", he's an rear end in a top hat and will go to extreme lengths but the show has shown that deep down he is conflicted, he does care about his team and people around him, he's just so damaged he can barely show it, like we see this in the very same episode where he knocks Hughie out cold. Butcher is not a one dimensional character like the Terminator who has his target and that's literally all he cares about. The fact that Ryan is the result of what Homelander did to the love of his life obviously affected Butcher but at this point doesn't matter to him when he sees Ryan, it's clear that he cares about Ryan beyond it merely just being a promise to Becca, him being horrible to him earlier in the season was Butcher realizing that his growing attachment to the kid was weakening his ability to get revenge, so he tries to push Ryan as far away as possible. How someone finds it wrong that Butcher chooses to protect Ryan after he not only promised the love of his life he'd protect him, but also after it's been shown multiple times he does truly care about him kinda baffles me. Also this whole "Oh if Solider Boy blew up then that would be a good thing for Ryan because he'd be depowered so it doesnt make sense they wanted to stop Soldier Boy exploding" argument is bad for 2 reasons. Firstly, if there's a child you care about in the midst of a drat attack you're just naturally going to go with your instinct and try to stop the rear end in a top hat who is trying to murder them, and secondly, did you see the size of the explosion that Solider Boy made OUTSIDE of the Vought Tower? Can you imagine if he'd exploded inside what damaged that would do? Quite possibly the building would collapse no? So I'm going to guess that a depowered Ryan, and everyone else would be pretty dead if they got depowered and then thousands of tons of steel collapsed on them.
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Jul 13, 2022 20:03
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:I do agree with this. There were some points where Homelander should've just wasted people but didn't because reasons. And seeing how well other supes did against him he no longer feels like an overwhelming obstacle that can't be overcome, but not in a way that was earned. I agree with this, Homelander hasnt been shown to be as big of a threat as he was built up by the other Supes/ the writing. Either the writers are just kinda bad at portraying his true strength or realised that if he really was that powerful they were kinda not going to be able to portray it as they wished so they decreased his power level to make the fights interesting, or the narrative reason that I prefer which I hope they go into is that Homelander was never as powerful as he believed, he was fed all his life propaganda by Vought to believe he was miles and miles above other supes but ultimately while he's at the top he isn't levels and levels above, and that the reason others like Maeve were so frightened of him was just this false narrative perpetuated by Vought and Homelander himself. That would be a good thing to explore in the next season where HL has realized he's actually not in a league of his own, perhaps training Ryan he witnesses his son slowly starts to overtake him in power and his reaction to that could be very interesting. Just Chamber fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Jul 13, 2022 |
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Jul 13, 2022 20:09
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Just Chamber posted:lol that people would think that they'd kill Homelander so soon. You're forgetting one important thing, which is that supe fuel can't melt steel beams.
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Jul 13, 2022 20:11
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Professor Beetus posted:You're forgetting one important thing, which is that supe fuel can't melt steel beams. Oh great another one of these nuts who thinks Vought put C4 on the outside of the tower.
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Jul 13, 2022 20:13
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Yes. I'll point out that people have mentioned maeve "sacrificing herself" but that's not really what happened, she and everyone else was dead if SB blew up the tower and as it worked out she did the opposite of sacrificing herself. She chose keeping everyone alive vs killing everyone so for me it was appropriate that she gets to live too despite how sketchy it was.
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Jul 13, 2022 20:16
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GreatGreen posted:This last episode, for the first time, soured me on the show. I think I'm done with it. Yeah I can see where you're coming from. It was irritating they had him dead to rights and just walked away and that didn't make sense at all, beyond being a comic book trope. Although in light of the throughline this season, and probably this whole show, of "where do you draw the line", I think I can understand why having the kid show up and throw Butcher off had to happen. Just Chamber posted:
 I think that the juxtaposition of HL and SB against HL and the kid was a good bit of foreshadowing. Soldier Boy says he'd let Homelander have the spotlight. Maybe he was telling the truth, maybe it was manipulation. Homelander would almost certainly be just as hosed up if not more, and we can hardly take Soldier Boy's word for it that he wasn't going to be a piece of poo poo. The fact that HL can't even accept the fact he isn't the best at corporate management or accounting when he assumed the role like 4 hours ago, I doubt he'll handle seeing his son surpass or challenge him all that well.
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Jul 13, 2022 20:17
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i dont know about you all, but when i see a child in imminent nuclear hellfire's way, i calmly assess the odds while listening to my jordan peterson podcast before intervening
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Jul 13, 2022 20:18
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Butcher only changed his mind because Ryan showed up and Butcher didn't know he'd be there. They even showed Mallory trying to call him and tell him but he ignored the call His promise to Becca is more important to him than killing Homelander and that makes perfect sense for his character for a million reasons Also if Soldier Boy blew up and de-powered Ryan there's a very good chance Ryan would die in the building collapse (along with everyone else except Soldier Boy). It's not as simple as some people are trying to make it I get the frustration though because I felt it too but like others said, there was no way in hell they were killing Homelander this season
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Jul 13, 2022 20:21
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I'm hoping that they have Homelander's kid start to question the fascist movement growing around HL pretty quickly, cause radicalizing and indoctrinating kids is something I couldn't stomach to watch. It just affects me in a way that makes me feel literally ill. It's not just that it makes me uncomfortable to see.
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Jul 13, 2022 20:22
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I do actually think Homelander would have been slightly less hosed up, if only because "raised in a lab without ever experiencing love and affection" is about as rock-bottom as you can probably get.
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Jul 13, 2022 20:23
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do you reckon trump ever pushed barron off the top of the white house
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Jul 13, 2022 20:24
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SB's blast cored out a building and blew kimiko through a very solid wall. There's a very real chance he would have blasted the kid through the building, and depowered he'd probably be dead when the building collapsed. Butcher's save of him doesn't seem odd when he has done so much to safeguard the kid, even as far as making the kid hate him so he won't gently caress the kid up like his dad did him.
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Jul 13, 2022 20:34
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Eau de MacGowan posted:do you reckon trump ever pushed barron off the top of the white house Considering Barron is 1ft taller than him? I think he probably tried to persuade Stank or Chungus to do it.
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Jul 13, 2022 20:35
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skooma512 posted:Although in light of the throughline this season, and probably this whole show, of "where do you draw the line", I think I can understand why having the kid show up and throw Butcher off had to happen. I would say it's even more specific than that for Butcher. He was just forced to revisit his childhood, where his Dad tormented his younger brother into suicide trying to "man him up" with beatings. Butcher let this happen and even sometimes mirrored the abuser, enjoying the fleeting approval this bought. We see from Black Noir's flashbacks that SB is much the same, and conducted casual and brutal abuse of anyone he regarded as weaker (everyone). Butcher is finally seeing his father in SB, between him punching Hughie (the cumguzzler) 20 feet and bodyslamming his teenage 'grandson' across a room for standing up to him. It makes sense to me that Butcher would see a second chance to protect someone like his brother this time, even if it goes against what he has wanted and has said he is willing to do all along. It also ties to his earlier conversation with Maeve, where he said the V just powers up what's already there. Now that he has powers, is he still his father/young Butcher, or someone better like Becca/his brother/Hughie believed in?
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Jul 13, 2022 20:50
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https://twitter.com/VoughtIntl/status/1547249805394583558
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Jul 13, 2022 20:50
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Just Chamber posted:I agree with this, Homelander hasnt been shown to be as big of a threat as he was built up by the other Supes/ the writing. Either the writers are just kinda bad at portraying his true strength or realised that if he really was that powerful they were kinda not going to be able to portray it as they wished so they decreased his power level to make the fights interesting I think it's the latter. In s1 he was able / fast enough to save Butcher after he set off the c4 on Madeleine. In s2 Kimiko's brother collapsed the tunnel and some moving trains onto him and he didn't even have a scratch. It barely slowed him down. In s3 you just gotta punch him real hard. Maeve trained for like 3 whole months!
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Jul 13, 2022 20:51
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:I think it's the latter. In s1 he was able / fast enough to save Butcher after he set off the c4 on Madeleine. Yea I mean it probably is this. Like they could have waved away the train thing and the fact that Maeve's punch hurt him by saying well Maeve hits harder than a train, but then we see in that fight Maeve hit a filing cabinet with what we assume is her full force and she just dents it real bad. Now I'm not strong but those things arent solid steel and I think if I punched one of those things I would probably break my hand but at least leave a bit of a dent. If her punches are hard enough to hurt Homelander then her punching a filing cabitnet should explode it and send it through a wall honestly. So yea I think they worked themselves into a corner and realised they cant have Supes with the strength level they portrayed them at fight hand to hand in an office without the building being turned to rubble so they essentially depowered them. You can sort of retcon it and just say like I said in my previous post well Homelander was just never that strong to begin with and it was all ego and propaganda but like you say, there are scenes which contradict this a bit.
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Jul 13, 2022 21:12
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Homelander didn't have his milk the day he fought Maeve that's all it was.
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Jul 13, 2022 21:18
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Ryans gonna make a lego triumph of the will
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Jul 13, 2022 21:21
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Just Chamber posted:Yea I mean it probably is this. I think a lot of stuff does not work if you start including the environment. In the first episode, an armored car pancakes around Maeve. Since she is stationary, doesn't that mean she must have much greater mass than the truck to stop it? How does she walk around apartment buildings without floors breaking under her?
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Jul 13, 2022 21:25
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Characters are best defined by their exceptions. The fact that Butcher is willing to sacrifice everything and everyone except Hughie and Ryan says a lot about his relationship with those people and what they mean to him.
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Jul 13, 2022 21:25
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I don't buy the idea that the explosion would have brought down the entire building and killed everybody in it. The explosion could just have been exactly as powerful as it needed to be. Powerful enough to de-supe Homelander and maybe char a few floors of the building or whatever, but exactly as weak as it needed to be to not literally topple it... or it could have toppled the building but the non-supes could have all somehow landed in perfectly hollowed out rubble in exactly the way they need to land in order to survive. The point is that the explosion, like Butcher's actions, could just have been whatever the writers needed it to be to make the plot work, similar to how the rest of the events of that episode unfolded, and that this idea has never been more apparent than during the last big fight scene where everything miraculously happened exactly as it needed to happen to just kind of maintain the status quo and keep viewers hooked. I dunno, I'm just saying that the way things went down in the finale simply exposed too many of the nuts and bolts of the writers' intentions and became such an obvious look behind the curtain that the show has changed for me in a way I don't know if I can continue to engage with. GreatGreen fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Jul 13, 2022 |
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Jul 13, 2022 22:07
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GreatGreen posted:I don't buy the idea that the explosion would have brought down the entire building and killed everybody in it. The explosion could just have been exactly as powerful as it needed to be. Powerful enough to de-supe Homelander and maybe char a few floors of the building or whatever, but exactly as weak as it needed to be to not literally topple it... or it could have toppled the building but the non-supes could have all somehow landed in perfectly hollowed out rubble in exactly the way they need to land in order to survive.
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Jul 13, 2022 22:16
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tbh herogasm and the s3 finale are the weakest episodes of the show, with narrative incongruences and the introduction of lame mcu fights, something this series was so good at avoiding until now show still good, but now we know it can bleed
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Jul 13, 2022 22:17
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GreatGreen posted:I don't buy the idea that the explosion would have brought down the entire building and killed everybody in it. The explosion could just have been exactly as powerful as it needed to be. Powerful enough to de-supe Homelander and maybe char a few floors of the building or whatever, but exactly as weak as it needed to be to not literally topple it... or it could have toppled the building but the non-supes could have all somehow landed in perfectly hollowed out rubble in exactly the way they need to land in order to survive. chest fuel cant melt steel beams
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Jul 13, 2022 22:22
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I do agree that homelander being disgustingly stronger than everyone was a core premise of the show and a lot of stuff from S1 (like Vogel calling him his greatest failure) gets undermined when he's just the strongest supe by a bit.
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Jul 13, 2022 22:26
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No Wave posted:I do agree that homelander being disgustingly stronger than everyone was a core premise of the show and a lot of stuff from S1 (like Vogel calling him his greatest failure) gets undermined when he's just the strongest supe by a bit. I actually really liked that much of his power was just hype. Made it feel tangible.
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Jul 13, 2022 22:27
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GreatGreen posted:I don't buy the idea that the explosion would have brought down the entire building and killed everybody in it. The explosion could just have been exactly as powerful as it needed to be. Powerful enough to de-supe Homelander and maybe char a few floors of the building or whatever, but exactly as weak as it needed to be to not literally topple it... or it could have toppled the building but the non-supes could have all somehow landed in perfectly hollowed out rubble in exactly the way they need to land in order to survive. I mean you're annoyed by the writers writing the finale in such a way that things "miraculously happened exactly as it needed to happen" and yet you propose one of the ways they fix this is to have a skyscraper topple and yet those without powers somehow survive in convenient pockets of hollowed out rubble? They went out of there way to show that when Soldier Boy's blast goes full power or not even that, buildings get taken out. It wouldnt make narrative sense for Soldier boy to just put out a tiny little explosion when his life is in danger because we've seen that when he loses control or wants to, he will wipe out an immense area like in Herogasm. Butcher's actions make narrative sense too, he's not going to let Soldier Boy beat the poo poo out of Ryan, he cares about Ryan and not just because of his promise to Becca. Like the poster a few posts up said, when he sees SB beating Ryan up he sees his dad beating both him and his little brother, he isn't going to just stand there and shrug and think "yea beat the little poo poo that was the result of Homelander raping Becca" which you seem to think makes sense for his character. If you dislike the fact that things are back to the status quo, I mean there were enough changes in the story to make season 4 an interesting one imo. If Homelander had died what then? They havent established a big bad to replace him. I'm sure they're getting there and if you read the comics which I don't but I know a couple twists then there is still time to set up the next bad guy. The whole Ryan plot is going to be fascinating with how Homelander is going to interact with him and if he was dead it would be downright boring. As I said in my other post, it'll be great to see Homelander maybe having to come to terms with his son surpassing him, or what he does if Ryan starts to question his authority, or hell maybe Ryan just gets out of control and then what? I want to see Butcher have to try to get him out of his grasp also. So I'd rather all that and have more Anthony Starr next season than watch the whole of season 4 just be The Boys going after a different bad guy. Just Chamber fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Jul 13, 2022 |
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Jul 13, 2022 22:43
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he can fly tho. flying > everything else I do agree the homelander fights were a bit lame compared to the hype, but theres also huge limitations to what you can in a TV show and still tell a coherent story. as mr DICK said if we were being realistic the final episode of the season would have been homelander lasering all the good guys from orbit. they also generally did a goob job of establishing that homelander was always out of his element or on the backfoot during these fights. im willing to believe season 4 homelander at the top of his game and fully committed to violence is going to be scarier
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Jul 13, 2022 22:46
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Cpt_Obvious posted:I actually really liked that much of his power was just hype. Made it feel tangible. It wasn't just hype though. I guess the writers just forgot about the stuff he did in s1 and 2 or don't care. It definitely didn't read like they were intentionally revealing that it was all smoke and mirrors. The show certainly would have been more blunt and less subtle if they were doing that. babypolis posted:he can fly tho. flying > everything else Homelander going to take off his training weights in the s4 finale and go full anime. "Now this is my true power!"
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Jul 13, 2022 22:52
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Push El Burrito posted:Apparently when Jensen was getting jacked as poo poo for the show Antony was just all "why don't you just ask them to put more muscle on the suit?" Jensen said that when he was getting fitted for a costume, he asked them if they were going to add in muscles to his costume, and a lady said no, he was going to bring her some muscles when filming started.
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Jul 13, 2022 22:56
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Cojawfee posted:Jensen said that when he was getting fitted for a costume, he asked them if they were going to add in muscles to his costume, and a lady said no, he was going to bring her some muscles when filming started. Starts at about 2:20 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skjbIwFVuSE
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Jul 13, 2022 23:09
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So the thing Ackles didn't want to do was some sex position? Soldier Boy doesn't even have sex this season. They show him getting ready to gently caress the Legend's cleaning ladies but that doesn't actually happen. Did I forget something?
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Jul 13, 2022 23:48
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I have a suspicion that there wasn't actually an issue and this was just decided as some kind of talking point to hype up the season
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Jul 13, 2022 23:51
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Avasculous posted:I think a lot of stuff does not work if you start including the environment. It just means she can exert that much force on the truck. That can come from mass, but also from acceleration ie her pushing into the truck.
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Jul 13, 2022 23:53
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:
We can only hope and pray there's at least one moment of homelander training Ryan that has him immediately attacking out of nowhere and yelling DODGE!
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Jul 13, 2022 23:58
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:I think it's the latter. In s1 he was able / fast enough to save Butcher after he set off the c4 on Madeleine. Homelander was exposed to the initial stage of Soldier Boy's depowering ray at Herogasm. It's not impossible that this weakened him a bit, even though it wasn't anywhere near enough to remove his powers completely. I'm also chuckling a bit at the idea that dropping a train on Homelander would do more than slow him down. He's a Superman analogue, and everyone knows Superman is more powerful than a speeding locomotive. And if Maeve is even close to that level, it's hardly surprising that her unpulled punches would do more than a train could.
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Jul 14, 2022 00:14
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everydayfalls posted:It just means she can exert that much force on the truck. That can come from mass, but also from acceleration ie her pushing into the truck. Yeah, the fact that she's stationary is what I am questioning. If the truck has 100x her mass, wouldn't she need to be moving with 100x the truck's velocity to stop it instantly?
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Jul 14, 2022 01:03
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