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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I've been eyeing that one as well. Let me know what you think of it if you pull the trigger trigger pulled, plus i got their "bit-c" controller too. ordered the same switches as my murphpad, tecsee corals, plus some everglide panda stabs and 7305 sockets this time instead of the 0305s because i found those were too tall. should have it soldered and assembled by the end of the month. looking for a keycap set that matches my murphpad now, white and blue is the theme hot cocoa on the couch fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Jul 13, 2022 |
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Jul 13, 2022 02:08
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MockingQuantum posted:Okay, I've done some looking and I have a few questions: Yes, all the switches you've mentioned and pretty much all mechanical keyboard switches being sold by enthusiast sites are MX clones, and nearly all the custom keycap sets are compatible with these switches. Alps switches and caps are pretty clearly different from MX, and I think the only potentially tricky one you might see are Topre-compatible caps. In any case, any keycap set not compatible with MX clones will be pretty clear in their description, but if you have any doubts about any specific switch or cap, post in here and we'll be happy to confirm. I've only used a switch tester once several years ago, but I think it can help give you an idea of what kinds of switches are out there. After that, I just started relying on others' reviews and experiences on switches to decide whether or not to buy a full set to try out on a keyboard. Unfortunately, nothing compares to actually typing on the switches. If you do end up wanting to go the high-customization route, which many of us end up doing (  ), then I think that you will eventually want to budget for a nice board. That said, not everyone's keyboard journey is the same, and I personally stayed with a cheaper/mid-tier hotswappable keyboard to first figure out what switch I liked the feel of most. After that, I started thinking about how I wanted my keyboard to sound. It's up to you, but we'll be here alongside you on your journey to support your similarly quixotic quest for the fabled endgame keyboard 
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Jul 13, 2022 02:58
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Alright so my initial impression is that I might be best off just getting an "entry level" keyboard that is hot swappable, just to confirm this is something I'm interested in before I sink too much money into it. I'm fairly sure I'm more interested in tactile switches to start. I'm thinking the "budget" option is to get a hot-swappable Keychron 8 with Gateron Brown switches. That way I have something fully functional right off the bat, but can monkey around with it at least a little. That said, what would be the next step up budget-wise from something like the Keychron for the actual keyboard body/base (what do you call this that distinguishes it from a full keyboard + switches + caps?)?
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Jul 13, 2022 03:34
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MockingQuantum posted:Alright so my initial impression is that I might be best off just getting an "entry level" keyboard that is hot swappable, just to confirm this is something I'm interested in before I sink too much money into it. This is the point where the real hobby begins. You start moving up from a fully assembled in stock keyboard that you click buy and is on your desk in a couple days ready to type, and you get into kits that you need to assemble yourself. Some are in stock as was previously mentioned, but most are "group buys" where you throw money at a designer or vendor running a designer's board and then just sit back and wait for it to get manufactured. Sometimes it doesn't work out though, and that's where things get complicated. If you just paid some designer directly to get the board made then there's a chance they just run off with your money, or something bad happens and the groupbuy falls through at some point after the money has been collected but before the boards start delivering. In that case your money is gone and there's no recourse really if you're beyond chargeback / 6 month paypal dispute. That's why it's always better to buy boards in groupbuy from a reputable vendor so there is at least a modicum of security as it is in the vendor's best interest to not piss off customers. ANYWHO, that was a lot of words to say once you get beyond prebuilt boards and into custom kits then a whole new world of possibilities opens up to you. You can start looking at a variety of layouts and materials that comprise the board. You find designs that are absolutely gorgeous aesthetically and have exotic materials for some of the components. You find many more options for the finish of the board whether it be anodization colors or cerakote or bare metal distressed or polished. All sorts of neat things. My journey was many years of collecting vintage boards of all types > prebuilt boards like the Durgod Taurus and Filco and WASD Code and whatnot > modding those prebuilts in various ways like switches and stabilizers and filler materials > briefly back to vintage boards and rebuilding them or harvesting them for parts > becoming curious about other more compact layouts like 60%'s and 40%'s. Once I hit 40's things got sort of out of hand with how much I was spending on keyboards simply because of the number of projects running and all the variety in layouts and styles. I wanted to try everything so I just joined every group buy I was interested in. Along the way I had to buy switches and keycaps so that they were usable. So I ended up with a large variety of both of those things because I liked trying new things. Now that I've been getting really into customizing 40% boards for a few years I've learned a lot about not only building, but also designing them, the materials involved, the manufacturers that produce the boards, the people that design them, etc... As a consequence of liking small boards with weird layouts I've also learned a lot of kitting theory; how to organize the necessary keys into separate 'kits' that you can purchase in GB to maximize the potential for your keyset to sell enough units to be made, and people can buy what they need to make it work with their board without having to spend too much. At this point I would say THAT is as much a part of my enjoyment as actually building or using keyboards; appreciating and discussing keyboard design, postulating on keycap kitting and colormatching processes and manufacturers and just generally talking to other people in the community about little pieces of plastic and rectangles and stuff.
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Jul 13, 2022 03:57
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MockingQuantum posted:That said, what would be the next step up budget-wise from something like the Keychron for the actual keyboard body/base (what do you call this that distinguishes it from a full keyboard + switches + caps?)? A keyboard without switches or keycaps is called barebones. There are so many "next step up"s from the basic Keychrons that it would be hard to list them all. Keychron itself seemingly releases a new keyboard every month or two... aside from the K8, there's the similar but non-wireless C1, and a new K8 Pro that's a decent step up from both. And beyond that is the aluminum Q3. For other brands, there's the aforementioned GMMK (beyond which is the GMMK Pro), or the NK87 entry edition (beyond which is the NK87 aluminum edition), or the Ducky One 3, etc etc. Many of them come in various configurations that affect the features and pricetag of the board. This site has been linked at times and has a lot of reasonable options, though certainly not all: https://www.mechmap.tech/themap
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Jul 13, 2022 05:28
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I actually just put together a keyboard as a gift using a Keychron K4 as the base and wound up leaving in the included G Pro Brown switches 'cause an upgrade would have been kinda marginal. A couple pieces of advice if you want to go down the customization route: 1) A switch sampler pack is a (relatively) cheap way to try out a bunch of different options for a lot less than a single full set. This is a decent cross-section of the currently trendy ones. 2) If you're buying a keycap set, double-check to make sure that it includes all of the necessary sizes for whatever layout you picked.
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Jul 13, 2022 15:32
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Nestharken posted:I actually just put together a keyboard as a gift using a Keychron K4 as the base and wound up leaving in the included G Pro Brown switches 'cause an upgrade would have been kinda marginal. A couple pieces of advice if you want to go down the customization route: Woah, this is just what I needed for keyboard testing at work. I'm going to see if I can expense one of these
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Jul 13, 2022 16:06
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Nestharken posted:I actually just put together a keyboard as a gift using a Keychron K4 as the base and wound up leaving in the included G Pro Brown switches 'cause an upgrade would have been kinda marginal. A couple pieces of advice if you want to go down the customization route: Awesome, that's got a bunch of the switches already mentioned and a few I've come across in my preliminary googling/fumbling around the internet. For keycap sizes, are there sort of a handful of set layouts that you can expect to find? Other than the obvious differences like full vs TKL vs the various % sizes, do you run into different layouts within a specific size? i.e. TKL, but with some of the larger keys varying in width or that sort of thing? And how do people find keycap sets? I've come across some cool looking ones just wandering around the internet but I haven't run into any specific resources to figure out who are good manufacturers/designers, or what to keep track of for group buys, etc. I'm not opposed to just getting a nice off-the-shelf keycap set to start with, though honestly I might be fine with what comes on the Keychron for however long it takes for me to find something that really grabs me. I suppose I'd probably need to find another keycap set if I got a switch tester, though.
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Jul 13, 2022 16:17
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MockingQuantum posted:Awesome, that's got a bunch of the switches already mentioned and a few I've come across in my preliminary googling/fumbling around the internet. Regarding keycap sizes and layouts: full-size, 80% TKL, and even 60% layouts are generally covered with full compatibility by most full keycap sets. The main thing to look out for is the size of the bottom-row mods (Ctrl, Alt, Windows, etc.). 65% and 75% layouts, from what I've seen, often have a 1.75u right-shift key, but the rest of the keys are usually the same size as full-size, 80%, and 60% layouts. 40% is a lawless land where anything goes, but I've started seeing more and more sets coming out with particular attention paid to various 40% layouts. Still pretty hard to find perfect compatibility, though. Once again, if you find a set you like, post it here and the keyboard you're looking to put it on, and we can confirm for you. After a few of these, you'll start getting a feel for what to look out for, too. geekhack.org is a good resource to find out about new keycap sets' interest checks and group buys. I haven't been keeping my eye on it lately, but every time I find out about a cool keycap set that is already no longer in production, there were threads about the set posted a year ago  The other way I've found out about upcoming sets is in this thread's Discord server. It's not terribly active, but we do chat from time to time. Here's an invite link, if you're interested: https://discord.gg/6bDqNCZ
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Jul 13, 2022 17:19
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There's also Key Caplendar. I don't know that it's completely comprehensive, but it's got all the established vendors I'm familiar with.
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Jul 13, 2022 18:05
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Wizard of the Deep posted:There's also Key Caplendar. I don't know that it's completely comprehensive, but it's got all the established vendors I'm familiar with. Awesome, I'll take a look at that and get a feel for what these group buys even look like and how they work. How is Drop for keycaps? I remember buying some random poo poo from them years and years ago when they were still Massdrop, but I haven't really paid any attention to them in recent years and I was never sure how much of their whole deal was actual good products and how much was just clever FOMO marketing.
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Jul 13, 2022 19:04
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MockingQuantum posted:Awesome, I'll take a look at that and get a feel for what these group buys even look like and how they work. From my experience, most of their keycaps are kept in stock and the quality is fair for the price. I don't personally buy there because shipping to Canada + customs make them expensive. I'm also a little disappointed that they don't offer "complete" (155-ish pieces) sets so they're missing things for 96%/1800 keyboards like the 1u "0" or some of the R4 modifiers. If you're in the US, have something more standard than I do (basically anything but 96% AFAIK) and like their sets, they're a safe bet.
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Jul 13, 2022 20:03
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MockingQuantum posted:Awesome, that's got a bunch of the switches already mentioned and a few I've come across in my preliminary googling/fumbling around the internet. Happy pretty much covered everything. I just wanted to parrot all that but also plug a couple other things: https://thocstock.com/ https://www.mechgroupbuys.com/ https://keycaplendar.firebaseapp.com/ and of course, the goon keyboard discord https://discord.gg/GT4vAK9tbh For me personally, Discord is where all the magic happens. I'm usually aware of the things that I'm interested long before they ever go to group buy and more often than not, before they get a proper Interest Check, because I'm there helping people flesh out designs and ideas. Keyboards is really my only active interest at the moment so I just live in that space. Like I said, it's a deep rabbit hole.
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Jul 13, 2022 20:10
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MockingQuantum posted:I suppose I'd probably need to find another keycap set if I got a switch tester, though. If you're willing to wait a while, you can get a bunch of cheap plain keycaps off AliExpress. Do be warned if you go browsing on there that a lot of the full sets they sell are knockoffs of existing ones, although whether they're actually lower quality than the originals is sort of an open question. This applies to Amazon too, FYI. HappyCapybaraFamily posted:65% and 75% layouts, from what I've seen, often have a 1.75u right-shift key, but the rest of the keys are usually the same size as full-size, 80%, and 60% layouts. Aside from the right Shift key, 65/68/70/75% boards also have a pretty random assortment of what they include in the top-right corner and where, so you might not get the correct profile keycap for your PgUp/PgDn/Home/whatever. This won't matter if you like a flat profile like DSA, of course.
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Jul 13, 2022 20:22
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Heya, was looking to replace my old keyboard since it's been failing for a while (I end up having to unplug/plug when it stops working) and was told this was the place to ask. I don't really get this stuff about switches and such and was looking for a more budget option, like 40-60€ stuff. What I would like is a 100% keyboards according to the OP, wanna have all the keys.
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Jul 14, 2022 18:36
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The OP doesn't mention 1800-style keyboards, which are also worth considering if you want all the keys 1800 removes some of the empty space on a standard 100% layout so you get some compactness without losing the numpad 
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Jul 14, 2022 19:53
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I was considering a Ducky One 2 Skyline series keyboard but it seems they’ve moved on to their new line. All of which seem to be RGB’d to hell and back and/or have really garish colors. Is there something similar I can get in full-size with Browns that’s still available?
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Jul 14, 2022 22:12
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Casimir Radon posted:I was considering a Ducky One 2 Skyline series keyboard but it seems they’ve moved on to their new line. All of which seem to be RGB’d to hell and back and/or have really garish colors. Look at the drop ctrl or shift . They come in both high and low profile, and the RGB can be minimized. https://drop.com/buy/drop-ctrl-mechanical-keyboard?searchId=a84486c43461c25e0776e26f3cec2462&defaultSelectionIds=965751%2C965753 https://drop.com/buy/drop-shift-mechanical-keyboard?defaultSelectionIds=966782 I have their alt board (60%) and with a little love it is an amazing board.
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Jul 14, 2022 22:20
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Casimir Radon posted:I was considering a Ducky One 2 Skyline series keyboard but it seems they’ve moved on to their new line. All of which seem to be RGB’d to hell and back and/or have really garish colors. The Ducky One 3 Classic is in a nice, boring black. As for RGB, you can simply turn it off if you don't want any backlight, but if you just want a solid color you can do that, too. I personally love the feature that only lights up the key that you're pressing 
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Jul 14, 2022 22:29
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Look at the drop ctrl or shift . They come in both high and low profile, and the RGB can be minimized. I'm happy you're happy with your drop, but all of the pro's in the keyboard community really, really don't like the Drop keyboards. Not just for what they are, but apparently build quality for long term is also crap. They would recommend a CODE or Ducky over it if you're looking at pre builds. Personally, I liked the Durgod keyboard for a prebuilt.
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Jul 14, 2022 23:01
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LionArcher posted:I'm happy you're happy with your drop, but all of the pro's in the keyboard community really, really don't like the Drop keyboards. Not just for what they are, but apparently build quality for long term is also crap. They would recommend a CODE or Ducky over it if you're looking at pre builds. Personally, I liked the Durgod keyboard for a prebuilt. Yeah I have read some horror stories as well, but you can say the same for almost any board vendor at this point. I maybe got lucky, but overall it is a solid board. Not an endgame board, but a solid entry level. I've also had great luck with keychron boards.
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Jul 14, 2022 23:42
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Yeah I have read some horror stories as well, but you can say the same for almost any board vendor at this point. Yeah, I talked a lot of poo poo about Keychron boards from my first experience with them, but then I went ahead and ordered a Q2 (barebones) and I think it's fantastic.
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Jul 14, 2022 23:48
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So I flashed my Preonic with QMK firmware I made with the configurator and somehow deleted it completely but it's still on my keyboard, is there anyway to pull down my firmware so I can edit it? I forgot to save a keymap too...
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Jul 15, 2022 08:25
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So, we know people in this thread have been scammed in a group buy. There are currently three keyboard group buy threads on Geekhack where the runner has disappeared with people's money - those boards are Rukia, Moon TKL and Esntl TKL. I myself was part of a group buy for an HHKB where I received a case that had several dents, and the runner has spent months not sending me a replacement. Be careful out there, folks. I know Rama gets poo poo on and Keychron and GMMK Pro may not be premium, but at least they'll deliver keyboards. I don't think I'll be joining any future keyboard group buys unless it's from a stable company.
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Jul 15, 2022 10:09
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repiv posted:The OP doesn't mention 1800-style keyboards, which are also worth considering if you want all the keys The Wind X 98 is approaching GB which would be an excellent one of these. https://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/comments/vy2ru9/ic_the_update_of_wind_x98_98_keyboard_by_wind/
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Jul 15, 2022 10:57
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That's a bit out of GiantRocks price range There are options though, like the Keychron K4
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Jul 15, 2022 11:06
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LionArcher posted:Yeah, I talked a lot of poo poo about Keychron boards from my first experience with them, but then I went ahead and ordered a Q2 (barebones) and I think it's fantastic. Fwiw the issue with Keychron has never been with the quality of the boards when they work. The problem is that if/when the boards fail it's an absolutely miserable experience trying to get Keychron to do anything about it aside from blame you. I backed the K3 on Kickstarter and a bunch of keys started going wonky and double pressing and/or missing presses. Trying to work with their support department was miserable. They made me record a video of me pressing the keys and a keytester on the screen indicating that the button wasn't actually pressed to verify the issue and then told me that I should find a local keyboard repair place and they'd pay for the work. It took me a while but I finally got them to just ship me a replacement which has worked just fine but that support experience has soured me so much on the company I don't think I'll ever buy another Keychron.
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Jul 15, 2022 13:06
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I've had nothing but good experiences with Keychron boards and really like the Q5 but the typos/misspellings/errors all over their website drive me up the wall
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Jul 15, 2022 14:00
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What’s the MilkyWay profile like, looks like it’s not sculpted right?
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Jul 15, 2022 14:40
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LochNessMonster posted:What’s the MilkyWay profile like, looks like it’s not sculpted right? Milky Way's keycaps are also Cherry profile.
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Jul 15, 2022 14:44
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Blinkz0rz posted:Fwiw the issue with Keychron has never been with the quality of the boards when they work. The problem is that if/when the boards fail it's an absolutely miserable experience trying to get Keychron to do anything about it aside from blame you. I backed the K3 on Kickstarter and a bunch of keys started going wonky and double pressing and/or missing presses. Trying to work with their support department was miserable. They made me record a video of me pressing the keys and a keytester on the screen indicating that the button wasn't actually pressed to verify the issue and then told me that I should find a local keyboard repair place and they'd pay for the work. Yeah. The, I dunno, 80% of Keychron boards that are as advertised are a great value for their price. But it's clear that part of the reason the price is so low is that Keychron keeps ancillary costs down by not doing quality control and having outright hostile "customer service". Buying from them is rolling the dice. On the other end of the spectrum is Unicomp--over $100 is steep for a keyboard with no bells or whistles whatsoever, it's just a keyboard (even if it has God's Chosen Switches) but the customer service is fantastic. Although I've begun to worry that they're about to go out of business--apparently they're way behind on shipping out new orders, which they say is because ~labor shortage~ (to be fair, believable since their entire company including factory is located in the US and sweatshopping is not an option) but I dunno, doesn't seem to bode well. I really want to get a TKL Model M clone but I'm leery of paying for one and never getting it because the company went under before getting around to shipping it to me. Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 14:58 on Jul 15, 2022 |
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Jul 15, 2022 14:53
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Gearman posted:Milky Way's keycaps are also Cherry profile. Ah ok, I noticed a few. Of them on the keycap calendar and couldn’t find a profile comparison quickly. Just the vendors website and it looked like they were completely flat.
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Jul 15, 2022 15:06
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Rollie Fingers posted:So, we know people in this thread have been scammed in a group buy. Thankful my newest GB is sailing along and shipping out in a couple weeks. They only opened the GB when they were pretty much done so it’s been the shortest turnaround of any GB I’ve joined. 3 months from buyin to shipping https://imgur.com/a/7F9e7WJ
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Jul 15, 2022 15:16
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that thing looks p rad what is it
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Jul 15, 2022 15:19
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:that thing looks p rad what is it Fox Lab Sand Glass https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=117246.0 Soothing build video montage: https://youtu.be/0NeVWX61lBA Just need to pick a good cap set to go with it now. I went white since it seemed pretty ubiquitous. Also already have my Boba switches (I was going to use in Exit strategy’s board) ready to go. Opioid fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Jul 15, 2022 |
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Jul 15, 2022 15:23
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dang that is too rich for my blood
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Jul 15, 2022 15:28
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Eric the Mauve posted:~labor shortage~ Khorne fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Jul 15, 2022 |
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Jul 15, 2022 15:34
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Eric the Mauve posted:Yeah. The, I dunno, 80% of Keychron boards that are as advertised are a great value for their price. But it's clear that part of the reason the price is so low is that Keychron keeps ancillary costs down by not doing quality control and having outright hostile "customer service". Buying from them is rolling the dice. Just pay with Paypal. If they don't send you a product, it's super easy to get your money back.
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Jul 15, 2022 15:49
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Rollie Fingers posted:So, we know people in this thread have been scammed in a group buy. funny you mentioned Rama. I was just looking at the u-80 yesterday and am still tempted for that to be my WKL endgame. I love the look. And yes, the GMMK PRO among keyboard folks get's crapped on but I'm writing this right now on one with Boba U4t's and I really do love it. Even if every time I turn on my iMac I have to unplug and replug it to get the RBG to work.
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Jul 15, 2022 15:51
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Blinkz0rz posted:Fwiw the issue with Keychron has never been with the quality of the boards when they work. The problem is that if/when the boards fail it's an absolutely miserable experience trying to get Keychron to do anything about it aside from blame you. I backed the K3 on Kickstarter and a bunch of keys started going wonky and double pressing and/or missing presses. Trying to work with their support department was miserable. They made me record a video of me pressing the keys and a keytester on the screen indicating that the button wasn't actually pressed to verify the issue and then told me that I should find a local keyboard repair place and they'd pay for the work. That sucks to hear. I haven’t had to deal with their support, but I’ll throw my hat in for the Q6, it’s a solid no-frills full-size board. Very quick to dis/reassemble. The case was pingy as hell at first but a sheet of butyl in the bottom cleared that right up. Even the stock stabs were decent enough to keep as is. I put in some fresh keycaps and White Jade switches and I’m very happy with the result
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Jul 15, 2022 15:59
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